Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I know I'm totally preaching to the choir, but here goes. Who's the cis <Not Permitted> who decided that Caitlyn Jenner is our spokesperson?! I was totally happy with Janet Mock and Laverne Cox as the two most visible trans people. They're awesome! And it's a plus that they're both PoC. So now some rich, white, republican is our spokesperson? This isn't good for us.

Okay, now since you're the choir, I want y'all to sing "Divine Hammer" by the Breeders!


Mod Edit: Language issue

Laverne Cox ALL THE WAYY!!!


Sent from Grey's iPhone using Tapatalk

What they said ☆☆☆

Hi -

Caitlyn is still a reality media person first, though I don't begrudge her that.  I also think it's pretty clear that she has a long way to travel on her journey to comfortably live in her new skin.  I was once that conservative, patriarch and it truly took me a few years to "detox."  There were some pretty awful, awkward moments in the beginning and truth be known I find I am typically right of a lot of sister's positions today though no one would call me conservative now. 

For certain, Caitlyn doesn't speak for me but I wish her well.

Rachel

P.S. Get off my lawn  (lol)

From the point of view of the UK too its even worse... our culture is VERY different to yours. Something which most Americans spectacularly fail to realise the full extent of. I mean we speak a similar language, but really our cultures are more different from each other than they ever are similar, and so from the UK we look on in complete bafflement at a lot of the bathroom wars and acceptance stuggles that you all seem to have...

However this whole thing of having icons and spokespeople is one of the reasons why I refuse to identify as transgender. I always say I have a trans past but not a trans present, because for the most part I simply don't and indeed can't identify with any of the current understanding of what being trans is all about. In my my day we were simply altering our physical sex and not our gender, and that is still largely my basic belief. I don't even think that gender really exists, except perhaps in the minds of people who believe in it, which I personally don't. So perhaps I am genderless - but either way I had my treatment, it worked I've been congruent, and happy for over 30 years, and so I'm not now trans anything in any meaningful sense.

Looking at the way these so called spokespeople portray the whole thing I have to say i'm quite glad of that! I have great feeling for this community, and I like its members immensely. Even as someone who has walked some of the same paths I find the whole thing to be strangely fascinating and mysterious, but for me a lot of these spokespeople, even Laverne and Janet, are just somehow too much about outward things, beauty, traditional female roles etc - and somehow that isnt real, and gritty, and postmodern feminist enough for me...

In some ways dont know exactly what my problem is with it - but I just know that transgender as currently often portrayed seems to be subtly different from how I feel, and what I value and identify with in feminista 21st century progressive womanhood. I suppose its a bit like watching an episode of mad-men all 1950's glam, rather charming but slightly alien... anyone else understand my feelings?

I wonder if CJ lurks on this Forum? Or has in the past.

Well, just on the basic level of everyday life all the spokes people who are considered spokes people for transgender have lives way beyond anything I have or ever will achieve. There is in no way they can realistically represent my everyday struggles. they have fantastic lives and all the means to look good.( I'd love to be able to own the kind of clothes they have). More power to them for being able to have nice things. Jenner spent 2 million or more on surgeries. It's nice to have people showing the general public we're not green zombies, but there is nothing in their lives that approaches mine.

My opinion is that she is fine, she may have all the advantages in the world but it has got the attention of people about transgender community.

I don't think what she is doing is going to harm us really and I ofcourse think she only has the best intentions for our community. People will always have opinions of us whether good or bad, I hope that she does turn that opinion to be good all the time, but that is unrealistic I guess.

I watched her show and she had a group which tried to give her a reality check on how transgender people have to do things that has not got loads of money and things.

I would not be able to go on TV like she has even if I was super rich.
I wish her the best really.

I watch becoming us and that was pretty realistic as it was more documentary than hollywood.  What caitlyn is doing is great but I like the documentary pieces better.

I'm not actually thrilled with Janet Mock and Laverne Cox as spokeswomen for transgender America either. Mock is out to sell books and Cox needs people to tune into her TV show. I'd actually like to see some true activists come to prominence. As I said in another thread, Australia has Cindy Macardle. Who have we got?

All I can say is, good luck to any trans person who choses to go in front of the crowds and media and politicians and speak their truth.

I kept trying to write a measured,reasonable answer to the question but actually it's simple.The answer is NO! Jenny  made a good point about how shallow transland can appear and how she would like to see something earthier and grittier.Plus the US is completely different to the UK and other English speaking countries.Where I live(NZ) those who speak out are different again.I'm not sure I have too much in common with them but appreciate their efforts even if they have a tendency to implode against each other and behave in the most beastly manner from time to time.It's easier to be critical whilst leading an anonymous life which is where I am at and sometimes it might be better to say nothing if I'm not prepared to follow an activists path.Not every trans person writes a blog or has a you tube channel either

This is becoming a great thread.  I'd like to comment using my journey as a backdrop for a fairly common trans example of leadership you might expect from my generation.

Based upon my personal experience, culturally we here in the US are pretty individualized, I find that most of the happy and successful trans-women I know well simply became an individualized woman in society: not necessarily a trans-women but simply women.  I sort of straddle that fence and being here posting after 15 years since I started my transformation is a testimony to that.  Of course, I still like to help and associate with my sisters and brothers because you are so darned cool.

My leadership is largely a product of my background: Transitioned later in life, never saw myself as a troubled of victimized individual (I say that in the face of an attempted suicide and that dissonance is still jarring), but once I embraced my womanhood I began to create a life very different than before but quite similar too: Economically independent, politically active, and willing to publicly advocate for 'my' causes (i.e. children and families, especially LGBTQ impacted).  So, I put myself out there knowing I was/am somewhat androgynous and operated in a public way dealing with some headwind at first associated with broad-based community issues.  In all this my trans status, which I fully own, but don't pay much attention to was/is an important but not the defining characteristic of who I was/am.  Oh, it was for about three years but I am Rachel now and I'm no longer a transsexual; rather, like all natal women in my own way I'm just sexual.

I think in our society it may be a while before a trans-community person stands out nationally as one of our successful leaders.  Instead, we'll do what most successful people do here in the US - we'll get on with what's important to us (that individualism again) and make our mark in life after/during the transition kerfuffle we all experience to some degree or another.  (Note: for children and young teens I believe after they have transitioned there's little motive to be trans-focused once they are whole, YEA!)

As a leader in the past 15 years I have 'enjoyed" being recognized nationally in a TV special about my transition, have raised hug sums of dollars for LGBTQ children and families and more for straight children and families, have and am helping create better local, state and national policy for children and families, work with large foundations and non-profits to become more effective in today's economy, and so on.  To put a phrase to it, "I'm a successful business woman who is a human and social services leader."  However, I do none of this as a trans-woman per se, but as Rachel the woman.  Me being trans is a footnote, all be it a proud one concerning how I got to womanhood, but not how I live my life, which I live as a 70-something woman who cares and pursues her passions. 

I know quite a few very successful trans-women like me and we (mostly boomers) all seem to have taken the same path (self-selection I'm sure).  Anyone of these women would make great trans-leaders . . . and maybe one of us should.  However, when we passed through our transitions we were filled with a drive to make an impact as successful woman (and men), and we did.  I think that's part of growing up with the 'great' post-WW II generation as our role models; they filled us with an un-satiable need to push for the greater good of our fair land and its people.  Being trans in this inspired group required a period of transformation for us to fulfill our life's purpose as the real people we were/are.  But keep in mind we had latched on to our paradigm for service and leadership pretty early in life.  Consequently, by the time I was 30 I was well on my way to becoming a senior exec in a fortune 50.  My transition impacted that timeline in my late 50s but only to the extent it took a couple years of adjustment and some refocusing.
   .
   .
   .

Well, I've written well over 500 words already and I'm not sure I accomplished anything; so I think I'll stop.  Let me leave you with there have been many, many brave men and women who made my path so much more manageable and enjoyable.  They were leaders, each and every one and I honor them as I do each of you.  For I am certain that among you there are our emerging leaders of tomorrow, even today.  Your leadership role will be different than that of many of my cohorts and what we saw in our lives; times do change and people respond.

As for Caitlyn, she has a wonderful platform to become a powerful and inspirational leader.  Time will tell if she does in spite of the bumps and turbulence she is currently encountering.  Well do I remember mine!  I wish her well and hope she can be a great trans leader for us all.  We shall see.

Rachel

Rachel,
So well said, my dear.
The fact you have become/now a woman and not a transsexual in your presence here is the ultimate destination for any transgender person, period.
Thanks for posting!
Chrissy

I am all for Caitlyn,

She seems to get dismissed off the bat for being rich, for being a Kardashian reality personality, and in the US for being a conservative.

Personally I am very grateful to her for simply raising awareness across the globe that transgender exist and are just people.

While her 'I am Cait' series doesn't seem to have attracted the ratings, the interview itself gained a huge audience and all the associated media attention boosted the exposure tenfold globally.

Personally I think she has done a great service.

I wish her well.

I'm for Cait too.  She's not perfect, but none of us are:)  She's trying to set a good example for us.  That's all we can ask.  That's all I want todo too..

My only gripe about her is the bc/ac period!  People ask me if I came out since Cait came out?  Wtf, I was out way before people knew of her, that does hurt:)  But around here, I was the only tg at my endocrinologist "bc", now a nurse there last time told me they have over 30 tgs there "ac":)  but this makes me happy to feel I may have a support group sometime soon!  I spent alot of time teaching my endo about hormones and standards with guidelines I would send him..  he was happy to comply!  Now if I can get my councelor some courses, but she just rather stick with ptsd vets and my issues since she's retired..  so I'll just work on the va and get our distinct up to speed and then others if needed!  But it's Cait's popularity (also the "lady of Valor") that has made our issues more public, and easier to get drs to listen! 
That's my opinion, maybe just based on my location too? 

My mentor was a 22 yo tg who I met online..  I was so proud of her and how she was brave and outspoken being tg.  I thought if she can do it, it's time for me to come out!  I bet we all needed someone to give us that little inspiration to come out.  I just think Cait is that person to be that inspiration that tops them all and makes life better for us in the numbers:)

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Quote from: Rejennyrated on October 03, 2015, 06:52:58 PManyone else understand my feelings?

Even though I come from the same premises to conclude I will always be trans as one more aspect of who I am and there is nothing wrong with it, I feel the same way about how we're often portrayed and having spokespersons.

Having people standing up as advocates or champions is great. But they don't come to the itty bitty ->-bleeped-<- committee to ask what the official position on such and such issue is, so understanding them as spokespeople is simply wrong. In part because there is no such committee because we are not a community!

There's this habit of calling any "minority" a community. Sure, Irish immigrants in NYC formed a community (but probably aren't that much of a community anymore). But we are a group of people with one thing in common, who are otherwise very very diverse. Some in stealth, some openly trans, some worried about passing, some not caring if they do, housewives, prostitutes, career people, rich, poor,  white, POC, straight, gay, asexual, monogamous, poly, depressed, resilient, religious, atheists, some living in relatively accepting places, others in constant fear for their safety... We have different priorities, different fears, different needs, different views. In this forum alone we often don't agree on a number of issues. Add to that the people that use other forums or use none.

Anyone who finds themselves in a position of visibility, of acting as a champion for other trans people needs to understand that. They need to look away from their belly button, look at the rest of us, and make it clear (or at least understand it themselves) that they are not a spokesperson, that they can only speak from their limited experience, and that the only thing all of us want is dignity and respect.

Right now, if I had to name a "spokesperson" for me, I'd name Julia Serano.  She's a trans activist (among other things), and I like what she's written about trans issues.  I wish Caitlyn Jenner well, but I can't see her as speaking for me.  (I could never relate to celebrities, anyway.)

As for considering oneself trans: I suspect I'll see myself as trans even after I transition (I'm just starting.)  I've never seen myself as female, but then, I've never really seen myself as male, either, aside from my body.  But who knows?  I don't plan to go stealth, as that would require uprooting myself and leaving everybody I know and care about, so most people I know will know about my past, anyway, no matter how well I pass.

I'm not a fan of Caitlyn Jenner or Laverne Cox as being an expert on transgender issues. I do agree with everything I read about Janet Mock. The one plus thing is that it shows the diversity of the transgender community.

Quote from: Asche on October 07, 2015, 12:00:45 PM
Right now, if I had to name a "spokesperson" for me, I'd name Julia Serano.

I agree. Unfortunately, she's basically unknown in cisgender circles.

I'm not a huge CJ fan at all. I think her privilege shields her from anyone else's lived experiences. As far as trans people that I admire, it starts with Jenny Boylan and moves through an interesting group of people like Jennifer Richards, and Parker Malloy. I get away with following these folks on my public twitter account because I'm such a good little lefty socialist.

Pfft. Caitlyn Jenner sucks. It's all about Lana Wachowski, she's a real badass.

You know who speaks for me? 

ME.

Quote from: Jill F on October 08, 2015, 03:40:01 PM
You know who speaks for me? 

ME.

Well, yes, but it's not that simple. Policy in our country is made by politicians who answer to the voters. So if we're going to have laws and government policy that doesn't make our lives miserable, we need to have a way to communicate with politicians and voters. A hundred thousand cacophonous voice will just sound like noise, but a spokesperson can get and keep people's attention long enough to explain why we do what we do and what we need.

Quote from: suzifrommd on October 08, 2015, 03:49:21 PM
Well, yes, but it's not that simple. Policy in our country is made by politicians who answer to the voters. So if we're going to have laws and government policy that doesn't make our lives miserable, we need to have a way to communicate with politicians and voters. A hundred thousand cacophonous voice will just sound like noise, but a spokesperson can get and keep people's attention long enough to explain why we do what we do and what we need.

I am actually pretty well connected when it comes to pols in Washington and Sacramento.  I know how to write and where/how to direct my correspondence.  I don't trust any "spokesperson" to speak for me more than I trust myself, so that's how I roll.

What Caitlyn should do as a conservative, religious Republican is speak to those in her own party who have long since dismissed us as "librul deviants" and refused to listen since day one.

Quote from: MugwortPsychonaut on October 03, 2015, 05:43:37 PM...it's a plus that they're both PoC.

Transpersons come in all ethnicities -- White, Black, Hispanic, and Asian.

QuoteSo now some rich, white, republican is our spokesperson?

Laverne Cox has $2 MILLION, which I wouldn't exactly consider "poor". Most spokespeople get to that place by having wealth and/or celebrity. Noone outside the trans* community would have given Laverne Cox's opinion the time of day if not for her being on OITNB. Similarly, Caitlyn Jenner's larger celebrity allows her to be heard by people who might not have ever listened to Laverne Cox.

I think Caitlyn is a great inspiration for a lot of transgenders at older age . Caitlyn has shown to have this strong personality no matter what the entire world thinks about her . She doesn't care for all those people making fun of her and calling her names . And that is willpower . I don't find it a weird thing that Caitlyn is a spokesperson for the transgender community . After all , statistics show that most transgenders are late transitioners and who could support them better than someone who transitioned herself very late in life ?

I myself can't relate to her and don't feel any connection with her . My spokesmodels are more like Jenna Talackova , Devon Marchant , Geena Rocero , Kelly Van Der Veer , Claudia Charriez . I can find more matches with them as they faced the same issues I have to face now in my life as a young transwoman .


I really hope that Jenna or Devon will get wider exposure in the trans community and especially under the trans youth .


This way the two groups would have their own spokespeople they could relate to :

Caitlyn Jenner for the mature transitioners
Jenna Talackova for the young transgirls / young transwomen .

I hate when people call Caitlyn "privileged". Really? Do you not remember who this person is and what she did for the United States at the time she did it? I'm generation X and I sure as hell do. She worked her ass off to get where she is and didn't have to come out in the spotlight at all for ANY reason.

Someone is only your spokesperson or role model or influence if you let them be.

I have to throw my two cents in here.

We should all be our own spokesperson, as we are the experts.  We are going through our own transitioning, each and every one of us.  We also know what is best for us, not relying on some "expert" or spokesperson other than our endos and hopefully transgender savvy therapists (as moi will be when she is a doctor in three more years).

In any case, more power to any trans man or trans woman who will go up in front of crowds or fight the man (lol)  Just remember, at least as far as I am concerned, it is up to each and every one of us to win our own individual battles and to be making our own statements.  That is how we will come out on top. 

As always, be safe  :-)

Marlo