Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I've been stuck trying to decide what would be better to invest my money into.  So far like I think I've obtained some info in regards to laser, and that is that it is not permanent hair removal. . .  But at the same time I don't know that much about electro.  Can someone give me some advice on this please?  I'm stuck trying to figure out which way to go before I invent probably thousands ugh.

Quote from: shanetastic on September 19, 2007, 07:46:52 PM
I've been stuck trying to decide what would be better to invest my money into.  So far like I think I've obtained some info in regards to laser, and that is that it is not permanent hair removal. . .  But at the same time I don't know that much about electro.  Can someone give me some advice on this please?  I'm stuck trying to figure out which way to go before I invent probably thousands ugh.

Laser has been permanent for many years with many people here, and with many people I know personally. I started laser about 18 months ago, and NOTHING has grown back. I know people who have been clear for 6+ years now.

IMHO, pure personal opinion... to maximize your chances of a good result, the formula is:

     LightSheer or Coolglide + dark hairs + fair complexion + 10 or more sessions

~Kate~

I think that by asking this question, you will obviously get two different answers.  I went with electrolysis myself, but it was basically because at the time when I transitioned, laser was not an alternative for hair removal.  It took me 283 hours of electrolysis at $60 dollars an hour and two sessions (of one hour each) per week.  Yes it did take forever and it was quite expensive, very painful but personally I consider it one of the best investments I've ever made.  It is permanent, not a single hair has regrown and I couldn't be happier with the results.

As far as laser is concerned, well, some people swear that it is an excellent method to remove hair "permanently"; however, there is nothing in the medical literature that confirms this.

QuoteIs Laser Hair Removal permanent?

Even with the state-of-the-art technology available today, lasers cannot remove the hair follicle entirely. What they can do is disable the hair follicle. Laser Hair Removal impairs the growth of your hair over time, so that it re-grows slower, finer, and less visible. The FDA has approved both the LightSheer Diode and Laserscope Lyra lasers for permanent hair reduction, not permanent hair removal.

Above quote was extracted from this link:

http://www.sfcosmeticsurgery.com/procedures/laserprocedures/laserhairremoval.htm


You may want to try the FDA website and see what new information they have on hair removal by laser.

tink :icon_chick:

I just found the old post on this, so I probably shouldn't have bothered to post this but it's still nice to hear new opinions.  I'm just stuck trying to decide. . . I don't have much facial hair which I'm glad for, but like half of it is still blonde (at 19 haha that's sort of sad).  So I think I'm leaning more toward the electro.  Just have to find a decent person now that can do it.  I tried looking them up and it's all these beauty salons that do it, and I'm a little skeptical of that.

I had electrolysis earlier this year for 7 months and was not at all happy towards the end. Supposedly my electrolysis was "one of the best"  ::) The "treated" areas were smooth for almost a week or so, then grew back like nothing happened. So I said the hell with forking over $60 an hour. There's a few totally bald spots here and there but I'm sceptical of the whole process now.

I started laser 2 weeks ago, and it looks promising. Having an electrified needle stuck in my face was nothing compared to the burning of laser. It felt like a stun gun to my face. But for the past few days I've noticed 2-3mm dead hairs falling out of my face. I'm hoping those hair follicles are dead forever. I still haven't totaled my electro cost (waste) but I know in the long run it's better, especially with my dark hair, plus it will be alot cheaper.

Hi Shanetastic,
I'm going to blog about this a little more extensively, but I'll let you know the abbreviated version. I too have had both laser and electrolysis. So far I've hd 3 laser appts and just had my first electrolysis appointment ever. I'm doing E instead of L because I got burned pretty bad with laser. Laser did remove a lot of dark hair, but like Kate said, you need the right combo of hair/skin to do this.

Anyway, I'm also going to echo Christine's statement, for me, Laser and Electrolysis don't even compare. OK, so electrolysis wasn't the most comfortable thing, but sooooo less painful than laser. The difference is the electro covers such a teeny, tiny area, one follicle at a time. Laser is zapping the size of a dime extremely hard, and it's quite painful.

I did like that laser removed so much hair, but I still have some white and red.

Maybe check them both out, leave your face alone for few months and see which works better for you.

Actually there are  lasers that EXPLICITLY say reduction AND removal, most of the newer lasers have basically had complete removal.

This is a LONG debated subject, but the truth is the laser proponents are begining to win out on the debate, as the people who got laser from alexandrite/yag/diode have basically said...yes its permanent.  But if it is not the right hair color, and if you skin sensativity is not right for laser...well that is a different story then. 

I am basically going to say that doing electro at this point if you have dark hair is the equivalent to ripping yourself off and exposing yourself to needle torture. 

I stress DARK hair. 

Laser has worked great for me though so far. 

Laser is more cost-effective for dark hairs & fair skin. For the rest of the hairs electro is the solution.

Laser is not that painful if a proper dermal anesthetic (e.g. EMLA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMLA)) is used, but depends heavily on the person.

Quote from: taru on September 20, 2007, 02:11:56 PM
Laser is not that painful if a proper dermal anesthetic (e.g. EMLA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMLA)) is used, but depends heavily on the person.

It's odd, but the EMLA never helped the pain at all for me. It DID numb the surface of the skin... I mean I could touch my face and not feel it. But the laser zaps STILL hurt, so I just gave up on it after a few sessions. Maybe the laser heat goes deeper than what gets numbed?

~Kate~

Quote from: Kate on September 20, 2007, 02:37:29 PM
It's odd, but the EMLA never helped the pain at all for me. It DID numb the surface of the skin... I mean I could touch my face and not feel it. But the laser zaps STILL hurt, so I just gave up on it after a few sessions. Maybe the laser heat goes deeper than what gets numbed?

I don't feel any pain from diode laser when using EMLA, but I react exceptionally well to it. Then again another dermal anesthetic didn't work for me.

Thanks for everything so far.

Out of curiosity has anyone heard of the MeDioStar XT.  The problem with this laser stuff is there are so many different ones available so it's hard to make a decision on what to do.

I had laser on my face and I'm pretty much done. I've had 6 on my face and 8 on my upper lip (stubborn area!) I'll probably have to go for a touch up sometime. I had some electro on some lighter red hairs, but there were not many.

I found that laser really, really hurt, even with the cream on. I went into shock and almost fainted the first time I went in, and I usually end up crying every time I go. It is probably the laser they are using -- it works well, but hurts lots. Some places have crappy lasers and I've heard of people going 20 times with little result.

I found that electro hurt less, but gets annoying very quickly and sux on the upper lip... makes my nose run and makes me want to sneeze.



Posted on: September 20, 2007, 05:10:22 PM

---

One thing I should note, the only hair I have now is baby fine hair, like most gg's have. People don't notice it, however, and the hair doesn't grow out long. I haven't shaved in forever.

Quote from: gothique11 on September 20, 2007, 05:13:12 PM
I had laser on my face and I'm pretty much done. I've had 6 on my face and 8 on my upper lip (stubborn area!) I'll probably have to go for a touch up sometime. I had some electro on some lighter red hairs, but there were not many.

I found that laser really, really hurt, even with the cream on. I went into shock and almost fainted the first time I went in, and I usually end up crying every time I go. It is probably the laser they are using -- it works well, but hurts lots. Some places have crappy lasers and I've heard of people going 20 times with little result.

I found that electro hurt less, but gets annoying very quickly and sux on the upper lip... makes my nose run and makes me want to sneeze.



Posted on: September 20, 2007, 05:10:22 PM

---

One thing I should note, the only hair I have now is baby fine hair, like most gg's have. People don't notice it, however, and the hair doesn't grow out long. I haven't shaved in forever.

Thanks for the info gothique. . . I'm not too excited about either method to be honest because it's going to hurt like heck.  I'm sort of happy that I barely have that much facial hair (dumb chin mainly).  The problem is now, are certain specific laser machines better than others?  It's hard to find local places here, so I'm stuck with like a choice of like 4 or 5 different places really.  So now I'm just trying to figure out whether it would be smartest to try laser or electro.  And if I choose laser, what type again would be best is the other problem.

Quote from: Kiera on September 21, 2007, 03:07:54 AM
but the pressure to "hard sell" and get a "treatment contract" signed...

I just told my doctor "I simply can't do that. I have to go session-by-session, and I still want the discount price." I told him WHY I was doing this, and pointed out that if it works well, I'd obviously be continuing with him until clear... as it was EXTREMELY important to me.

He said "deal."

After the standard "block" of six sessions, I asked that he cut the price in half at least, otherwise I couldn't keep going at that rate.

He said "deal."

It's easy money for them. Bargain. Demand. Whine.

~Kate~

You don't need fair skin for laser, YAGs work best on darker skin types, and honestly are probably the most effective method for African Americans. 

But you need DARK hair, without question for laser.  Laser is not a scam for anybody with Dark hair, in fact it works great, but anybody else...yeah stay far away and go to electro.

I would like to mention.  I know somebody going to E-3000, she should have done laser (fair skin, dark hair), her FIRST session was the total of five laser sessions for me (basically the first five, and than maintenance, which is extremely cheap).  By the end she will be paying 6 times or more what I will be (because of flights, hotel, etc) for hair removal.  So for those who think laser is not cheaper than electro, think again.  As far as I see it the money I am saving doing laser which is less time consuming, will result in me being able to afford a bit of FFS I would like.  The results...will be identical, except I spend 30 minutes per session and only about 7 hours total by the end and around $2000, she spends hundreds of hours, and thousands more dollars.   People wonder why I say if you go to electro if you have laser as an option, its simple math.  Transition is expensive enough, why throw more money at something you don't need too.  If you have dark hair, feel fortunate and do laser, it really is that much cheaper and it is just as effective, contrary to what some detractors say. 

The problem for me is see what if your still somewhat young and half like half blonde and half like brown hairs. . . that's why I was skeptical of laser. 

Don't believe anything an electrologist tells you about laser unless she offers both.

My tech offers both, and she has been a licensed electrologist for 25 years and has been using laser since the late nineties.  She HIGHLY recommends laser to anybody with dark hair.  She says electro is a waste if you have dark hair, a waste of time and a waste of money. 

Quote from: Amy T. on September 27, 2007, 12:19:36 PM
She HIGHLY recommends laser to anybody with dark hair.  She says electro is a waste if you have dark hair, a waste of time and a waste of money.

sigh... Like many TS issues we deal with there is no black and white. "Electro is a waste" (for dark hair) is a blanket statement that may or may not be true. There is so much back and forth on this issue I don't think anyone really has a definitive answer.

So, after reading all the info I could dig up on the subject, I decided that electro would be my best bet. I had my first E-3000 treatment 10 days ago and I am extremely happy with the results. 2 marathon sessions with 2 technicians working at the same time and my face and neck were completely cleared. The injections are painful but it only lasts a few seconds and the actual treatment was completely pain free. The girls doing the work were very professional and it was fun listening to all the "girl-talk" for hours on end. My cost for the 2 days was $2200.00 (give or take). I'm not ready to give a final opinion on e-3000 as I have at least 2 or 3 more sessions to go. Anyway, based on my first visit, I would say e-3000 is a great option to consider. Especially if you're like me and don't want to spend hours stretched over a couple of years to get it done.

Note that I am just starting out (i.e.,  I am still in the closet) and I'm planing on RLE in 1 to 2 years. On the first day I showed up in my male attire and the second day female clothes. I felt equally comfortable on both days -- they are very TG friendly.

Dora
   

Quote from: Dora on September 27, 2007, 03:37:37 PM

Quote from: Amy T. on September 27, 2007, 12:19:36 PM
She HIGHLY recommends laser to anybody with dark hair.  She says electro is a waste if you have dark hair, a waste of time and a waste of money.

sigh... Like many TS issues we deal with there is no black and white. "Electro is a waste" (for dark hair) is a blanket statement that may or may not be true. There is so much back and forth on this issue I don't think anyone really has a definitive answer.

So, after reading all the info I could dig up on the subject, I decided that electro would be my best bet. I had my first E-3000 treatment 10 days ago and I am extremely happy with the results. 2 marathon sessions with 2 technicians working at the same time and my face and neck were completely cleared. The injections are painful but it only lasts a few seconds and the actual treatment was completely pain free. The girls doing the work were very professional and it was fun listening to all the "girl-talk" for hours on end. My cost for the 2 days was $2200.00 (give or take). I'm not ready to give a final opinion on e-3000 as I have at least 2 or 3 more sessions to go. Anyway, based on my first visit, I would say e-3000 is a great option to consider. Especially if you're like me and don't want to spend hours stretched over a couple of years to get it done.

Note that I am just starting out (i.e.,  I am still in the closet) and I'm planing on RLE in 1 to 2 years. On the first day I showed up in my male attire and the second day female clothes. I felt equally comfortable on both days -- they are very TG friendly.

Dora
   

That $2200 for one session.  You can add in your cost of travel and your cost for hotel to your totals.  Thats significantly more than the total amount I am spending for laser.  I also spend 30 minutes for a full face laser session.   It is very effective as well.  That is why for people with dark hair laser should be the first thing they look into.  I am not sure why people with dark hair opt for electro, but overall I think its a poor choice, especially with the modern lasers. 

Because I spent $3600 on laser at 14 visits with my dark hair and did less good than my first visit to E2K which was $1100. Driving and motel was another $150. Laser seems fine until 6 months later when it all grows back. Driving was an adtional $30 visit =$420

Your mileage may very.

Quote from: lisagurl on September 28, 2007, 04:06:15 PM
Because I spent $3600 on laser at 14 visits with my dark hair and did less good than my first visit to E2K which was $1100. Driving and motel was another $150. Laser seems fine until 6 months later when it all grows back. Driving was an adtional $30 visit =$420

Your mileage may very.

Ouch!  I decided to go with electro, just because I don't have a lot of facial hair, and most of it is very thin either way and blonde.

Quote from: lisagurl on September 28, 2007, 04:06:15 PM
Because I spent $3600 on laser at 14 visits with my dark hair and did less good than my first visit to E2K which was $1100. Driving and motel was another $150. Laser seems fine until 6 months later when it all grows back. Driving was an adtional $30 visit =$420

Your mileage may very.

It grew back on you, but  by in large that is not the case, at least around here.  (Most everybody I know has done laser).  This is from people who did laser a couple of years ago.  That was your experience, but from what I understand is that represents literally 1% of the total of people using laser, where it does not seem to stick. 

An odd 1%.My house mate transitioned 6 years ago and had 22 laser treatments in San Francisco and still about 50% grew back on her also over a few years.

Quote from: shanetastic on September 19, 2007, 07:46:52 PM
I've been stuck trying to decide what would be better to invest my money into.  So far like I think I've obtained some info in regards to laser, and that is that it is not permanent hair removal. . .  But at the same time I don't know that much about electro.  Can someone give me some advice on this please?  I'm stuck trying to figure out which way to go before I invent probably thousands ugh.

I've seen the scars on people who had electrolisis...like little tram lines.....I've only had laser and wouldn't touch electrolisis.....

This has been a very informative debate, and I thank everyone for contributing.  I have a somewhat tan skin and very dark facial hair, I hope to have good results with the laser treatment.  It seems to me though, that elecro is an absolute.  You kill the cell, forever, and it's gone at that instant.  With laser it looks like a wait is in order for those that wish the hair to be gone forever, with the mantra being maybe it is permanent maybe it isnt.  Tomorrow is my first consultation, and hopefully I'll be scheduled for my first hair removal later this week or early next week.  If you guys like, I can keep an updated forum post in regards to my experience.  I am so nervous, yet so ready to put my feet first into the gender change pool, and I can't wait till I come out that otherside of the pool as the person I know I always was. . .


Elena

Quote from: elena on September 30, 2007, 06:18:47 PM
This has been a very informative debate, and I thank everyone for contributing.  I have a somewhat tan skin and very dark facial hair, I hope to have good results with the laser treatment.  It seems to me though, that elecro is an absolute.  You kill the cell, forever, and it's gone at that instant.  With laser it looks like a wait is in order for those that wish the hair to be gone forever, with the mantra being maybe it is permanent maybe it isnt.  Tomorrow is my first consultation, and hopefully I'll be scheduled for my first hair removal later this week or early next week.  If you guys like, I can keep an updated forum post in regards to my experience.  I am so nervous, yet so ready to put my feet first into the gender change pool, and I can't wait till I come out that otherside of the pool as the person I know I always was. . .


Elena

Please keep me updated Elena, I'm curious to see how your results are.