Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I always wondered. For us trans girls, is it possible for us to pass 100% of the time to the point where the only way someone will know we're trans is if we come out and tell them? To NEVER get clocked?

yes, sure :o

QuoteIs it possible to pass 100% of the time?

For all of us? For some of us? For me? For you? Or what.

As far as I know I have not been "clocked" for well over 25 years... then again as I havent ever asked anyone I might just be unaware. Also I dont do the parnoid stealth thing - so I do tend to tell people, perhaps not immediately, but in the course of conversations or whatever. So its impossible to know. All I can say is I've never been made to feel uncomfortable, threatened, discriminated against, disapproved of, or like an outsider or anything different, so functionally I don't think it matters. Its a massive non issue - literally zero.

Quote from: AnnaiyahStarr on October 19, 2015, 12:29:35 PM
I always wondered. For us trans girls, is it possible for us to pass 100% of the time to the point where the only way someone will know we're trans is if we come out and tell them? To NEVER get clocked?

Absolutely, but I think the odds are more in your favor if you start HRT by the age of 21 or sooner, or if you have androgen insensitivity syndrome. 

I pass as me to myself 100% of the time now because the fake front is gone.  That's all that really matters.  What anyone else thinks is irrelevant.

Hell, my cis wife gets "sir'd" all of the time because she's an amazon with a husky voice.  She doesn't give a sh*t either.

yes, then there is the other question on what exactly do you mean by" passing"(inwardly or outwardly) or mentally sufficient enough to be happy. Then there is another question of uniting under the umbrella and shouting back at the world to say I am me and free and a human being with exactly the same rights as all human beings and possibly all other  life forms ,but I'm tangentially expressing my own philosophy of passing which is my own personal opinion and not meant in any way to harm others. Sorry, I need a break.

Exactly so, Jill. Cis girls don't pass 100%, why should we. It's not whether you pass or not, it's how you react to it.

Quote from: Dee Marshall on October 19, 2015, 05:49:32 PM
Exactly so, Jill. Cis girls don't pass 100%, why should we. It's not whether you pass or not, it's how you react to it.

Transwomen can also pass more or less perfectly and still get clocked some of the time.   I do have a cis friend with some pretty amazing trans-dar.  "Just because you look 100% female doesn't mean I still can't tell."

My advice is to forget about it and just live your life the way you see fit.     

For some, Yes. For me, No. I met a transgirl the other day who I don't think would ever be clocked. She transitioned young and you would never know she was trans. Even her voice sounded female. I am so jealous.

For me, not yet.  I still slip up.

But one day, YES

I've known cis-women that don't "Pass" 100% of the time and have been asked/judged as being trans. And it wasn't like they were trying in any way to be "mannish"

Of course it is possible!

I believe an awful lot of "passing" has to do with one's attitude. I started HRT at 17 and had surgery at 24, in 1974. I always felt that I should have been a woman and after surgery I WAS a woman so I never thought any other way. I can't recall a single case where my gender was ever questioned. Even many years later when I started following some 'more typically masculine hobbies', I got more raised eyebrows for being  a girl in that hobby than questions about my gender.

I don't get clocked or misgendered to my face or within earshot. Who knows what people say behind my back.

In my humble opinion transgender women worry too much about 'passing'.

I have realised that I do not know what it means. I think that once you do not know what it means you have a healthier attitude to your life and interactions.

I've seen cis-women get sir'd. So I wouldn't worry about passing 100% of the time. Even my cis-wife has been mis-gendered right in front of me and I get gendered correctly by the same person.

Look at someone like Rain Dove. Everyone thinks she is transgender and she is not (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3137793/People-assume-m-transgender-Androgynous-female-model-shatters-gender-stereotypes-poses-topless-boxer-shorts-MENSWEAR-campaign.html). She just has a naturally masculine looking face and she models both men's and women's clothing. She also happens to be a friend of mine and we've been out together and she does get a lot of stares when she is wearing dresses especially since her body shape is very feminine and it shows when she wears a dress. She uses her androgyny for her career and she doesn't care how anyone addresses her.

Oh yes I have a friend who passes effortlessly 24/24 7/7 365/365. Complete from head to toes and absolutely no need to of make up, srs complete, ffs, hips, butts, voice, mannerism & legal papers.

Absolutely, it is possible. There is a treatment for anything now. Whatever clocks you you can get fixed. My voice so 100% so that's one of my main things I'm working at.

I'd say yes as well. There are girls I know who even I can't pick (being a trans sexual woman and meeting hundreds of trans women).

But I will qualify - who cares?

Transmen? They easily pass 100%.

I find there's often too much focus on passing as a woman and not enough on living as a woman. Yes there are some overlaps but they are not the same thing. I live as a woman 100% of the time.

Quote from: Ms Grace on November 10, 2015, 04:31:01 AM
I find there's often too much focus on passing as a woman and not enough on living as a woman. Yes there are some overlaps but they are not the same thing. I live as a woman 100% of the time.

I am always in aware of your ability to say what was in me somewhere.

I so agree.

I'm female, I have female relationships in the shop, groceries, petrol station. I feel bit lost sometimes.

I'm nothing special, yet I am ..... just a woman.

Why is there some urgency to assimilate?

OK I'm cranky tonight, why is it important to feel like anyone or anything?

Why not feel like you?

Why is so special about gender?

OK take out social acceptance.

Why is gender important to you?

100% not worrying about passing is a bigger milestone than passing itself.

To answer the question:
Yes, absolutely :D

I wanted to add that although for me personally, one of my goals is to be passable just because that's the person I am. However, as far as clocking goes the most important thing is to be ok with being clocked. Why? Well being ok with being clocked shows that you are secure with your womanhood. Don't take clocking seriously because you can be the most beautiful transgender woman and someone who is miserable will try and find a way to clock you regardless just to be a jerk. My brothers friend is transphobic and says he can always tell (men feel powerless being tricked) and I would test him and show him pictures of cis woman and he's pointing things out on how he can tell. Then I showed him some transgender woman and said "you can tell they are cis?" He said yes. He had no idea what I was doing and shows that he's just ignorant. If someone is clocking you be proud that you are still yourself and feel bad for them having their own issues and feeling the need to bring others down.

true there is possibly too much focus on passing but passing means relative safety, arguably easier relationships and generally an easier life, not to mention the potential for reduced dysphoria based on those aspects mentioned above and also seeing your features staring back at you in the mirror, so I do get it.

The last time I tried to come out, I was told I was making it up. Obviously I can't say 100% for sure, but everything I have to provide me feedback from the world says that I pass 100% of the time. It's possible. I transitioned in my 30s.

Hi Kira,

I 100% agree, I do think that passing is very important for me personally I need to for my disphoria to die down and to be more safe when I go out in public. What I was trying to explain is how to deal with the backlash of being clocked. I want people to know that they shouldn't take all the clocking took seriously because people only try to clock you to be mean.

Quote from: Jennygirl on November 10, 2015, 05:51:32 AM
100% not worrying about passing is a bigger milestone than passing itself.

To answer the question:
Yes, absolutely :D

I will second this.

I do not worry about passing. It just happens.

You do not have to even worry about your everyday life because you just go about it and people gender you female on first encounter and unquestionably. This is where I am at and where Jenny is at.

Why do I feel the need to pass?

1) Safety -- While ciswomen are always at risk of being attacked by a rapist, robber, etc...being obviously trans* adds the risk of being attacked by transphobes also.

2) Acceptance -- Sadly, if you don't pass most folks will not accept you as the gender you identify as. I would get "Sir" early on even when I was clearly presenting female (dress, makeup, etc...) When I am accepted as a woman, I don't get told I'm not allowed to use the correct bathroom because I make some transphobe who wasn't even in the bathroom "uncomfortable."

3) Dysphoria -- To add to #2, when I am not accepted it makes my dysphoria worse. Being called "Sir" or referred to as "Him" is like a knife in the heart. Hearing "Miss" or "Ma'am" or being referred to as "She" makes me feel so much better. Even more so when someone compliments my appearance - "I love your outfit. You look beautiful."

Being able to pass completely includes a combination of items.  First you have to have the visual down pat.  Dress the same as any other woman your age and dress for the occasion or environment you are in....work or casual.  That is so critical from the start.  If you have worked hard and mastered your makeup application, voice and feminine mannerisms you will do much better early on.  The second item is a bit more difficult and that is controlling stress and fear.  Everyone has that at the start.  The stress about possibly being clocked and fear of what will come of that and how you would handle it.  It takes time but the more you are out and about and spending time with and around other women you will begin to build confidence and the fear and stress will fade.  At some point the way you speak, your mannerisms and the way you think will all become feminine......it will become natural because you are living life totally as a woman.  You will have reached a comfort zone internally and with no stress or fear the real you will come out in full bloom.  Humans are very adaptable.  What is amazing is some day you will find that you no longer have the ability to act like a male......even if you try.  Once you get to that point mentally and physically then passing all the time is not in the least bit difficult.  What really makes it difficult for women like us is that we never had female puberty....and never had those experiences that are so important in the teens.  We are forced to learn those vital foundations of womanhood under a great deal of stress and fear.  But you can do it....and it is worth the hard work and effort!