Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I was just wondering if anyone has said or felt anything like that to the people in your life who have a hard time accepting your decision to transition.

As I continue down the path and I see there are still people in my life who are very much in denial, I find myself wondering if I will ever express or feel an emotion such as this.

Julie

Quote from: Julie Marie on September 23, 2007, 05:33:35 PM
I was just wondering if anyone has said or felt anything like that to the people in your life who have a hard time accepting your decision to transition.
Julie

Trust me, if I told my parents I'd had SRS, they'd STILL ask me, "does that mean you're wearing women's clothes?"

Some people just *refuse* to "get it." It's not that they can't, it's that they WON'T.

~Kate~

Julie,
   I never really cared what people thought of me. When I came to terms with who I was and what I was going to do about it. It never really occurred to me what they thought of me. I never really cared whether or not they knew that I was a man before or what they thought. It was my life and I was going to be who I should have been when I was born. The doctor had a choice, 50/50 choice, he was wrong. Now things are right and I will be who I am. Like I have said before, I maybe the ugliest female alive, but I'm a female. Now, I know better that I'm not the ugliest, I have had some guys come on to me. I tell them I'm married, I wear a wedding ring. They think I'm married to a guy, a lot thing that way.
Sheila

Hmmmm...not exactly, but I remember when I scheduled my surgery, my brother (my favorite brother) began to question my reasons even though I had been living as a woman for many years.  We had several heated conversations, and I couldn't understand why he was acting the way he did.  I guess that in the back of his mind, he still thought I was "going to come to my senses and forget about this whole sex change thing" 

After several months, it finally sinked in but boy, I had to open up my heart to him and tell him things I had never told anyone.  It was worth it though, for he got it at last.

tink :icon_chick:

People will believe as they wish to believe.  My older brother wants to remember me "as I was."  That tells me that he must consider me to be dead.  His wife accepts me as I am.

I learned pretty fast that I am not in this world to please everyone else.

Wingwalker

SRS was one of the watershed event that convinced most people I was serious.  I still have a brother who wants
to remember me as I was and a few people who are convinced I'll live to regret the decision--something I know
with 100% certainty will never happen.  Since the results of SRS are essentially invisible, it probably won't have
a major impact except on the people closest to you.  FFS I think had a more profound effect upon people.  I went
from undeniably male to undeniably female after FFS.  Even this has limitations since some people will see what
they want to see when they look at you.

Stormy

Quote from: Julie Marie on September 23, 2007, 05:33:35 PMthere are still people in my life who are very much in denial

Oh baby, believe you me, I can't wait until the day I can say this to them. I hope that will wake them up to reality and snap them out of the self-induced delusion of their stubborn denial. Then they may kick me out of the family completely, but it's no good remaining in on the basis of denying who I am.

Julie,

I personally don't want people thinking about what is - or isn't - between my legs.  That decision will remain a very private one with me. 

However, in your situation, it appears to be the only thing that will convince others.  I am so happy for you to be able to follow your dreams.  But I would remind you that you are not a woman because you had your body altered.  You are already one inside, and a very beautiful one at that!

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

There are 2 episodes that I remember very clearly from the time of my SRS. Prior to SRS one of my cousins asked me whether I was really going to go through with this, "think what it's doing to your father!", he said. I guess I figured out quickly where his loyalties were!

After my SRS, while still in hospital i received a phone call, they said it was my auntie. I was confused and shocked and could not for the life of me guess who it could be (I have quite a few aunties). Anyway it was my dad's youngest sister and all she had to say (other than to congratulate me) was "you should have done this many years ago hun!".

So I guess I have seen both sides of the coin. Mum was very supportive (ie acting as if nothing had happened :)) while dad was very reserved and avoided addressing me by name. Now, 20 odd years on, all is well and even dad gives me a hug from time to time. I guess bringing home a husband made it easier on dad.

Thinking back, I have quite a few fond memories of meeting my relatives for the first time...again! :)

Julie,

I believe you regardless of GRS.  The rest of the world may or may not believe you.

I hope you are happy and have some peace.

Quote from: Kate on September 23, 2007, 05:44:24 PM
Some people just *refuse* to "get it." It's not that they can't, it's that they WON'T.

~Kate~

I get the impression that you wouldn't make this distinction between can't and won't unless it was important to you. So I wonder how you can really know whether someone can't or won't.

....It's the same with hormones....friends say 'why don't you go on hormones'......and I have to tell them I've been on them for 7 or 8 years!

Quote

Trust me, if I told my parents I'd had SRS, they'd STILL ask me, "does that mean you're wearing women's clothes?"

Some people just *refuse* to "get it." It's not that they can't, it's that they WON'T.

~Kate~

Exactly.

Julie
As long as you beleive in yourself that is all that really matters. In most instances you will be going down a lonely road. You have to beleive in yourself. I can tell that you do because of your actions. It is so very hard for someone who is not transitioning and not on HRT to full understand the scope of things. For a person to go full time as his or her desired sex is an undertaking that most people can never realise. That is unless they are or have gone through the same thing.

SRS is the final step in our goals. It is a very important step for me and I think most. It is the step that completes us. Once you are Post -op there should be no doubt. It may take a while for some to realise. If they never come around to accepting you then you really don't need that worry. Move on to those new friends you will make in your wonderful new life.

You are a beautiful woman, and always beleive that. Make the most of your new life, and never look back. Always go forward!


Deb

Deb, That is excellent advice and beautifully said.

Quote from: debisl on September 29, 2007, 08:51:14 AM

SRS is the final step in our goals. It is a very important step for me and I think most. It is the step that completes us. Once you are Post -op there should be no doubt. It may take a while for some to realise. If they never come around to accepting you then you really don't need that worry. Move on to those new friends you will make in your wonderful new life.

Deb

Why are so many men who have had SRS.....who just look like men who have had SRS?....and there's plenty of doubt.....

Debs you are beautiful and would look female with or without SRS......many are not so lucky.....

I think gaining a female image, face and  body wins hands down.....SRS doesn't define femininity in any way...

Trust me, having SRS/GRS isn't going to change someone's mind who is alre4ady made up. They'll point out the Bible verses to say God created you a man and that means you're still a man. Or in the case of others that don't use the Bible to put us down but still don't see TS women as "real" women, they'll say "You weren't born a woman / You never had a period / etc. so will "Never know what it feels like to be a "real" woman...

People have to get SRS/GRS for their own reasons, not to convince anyone else.

There is the matter of legal documentation. - In the U.S. requiring SRS/GRS and proof of that to get a "F" gender marker on the drivers license, so that is a legal consideration. But that is the government / legal system, not individuals' opinions.

Myself, I would go for FFS, like Sandy did - outside of all the warnings of how intense the surgery and recovery is, looking at her pre and post FFS pictures, it's clear to me that FFS is the one thing that would make the biggest difference in other's acceptance who's opinions / views could be swayed. Also, FFS erases a lot of the old male facial gender cues, so it takes away a lot of what people visually remember you looking like in the face for those who knew you and remember you as a guy.

The hormones do soften the face somewhat, and even a small amount of chest growth can make a difference in how you feel about yourself. However, unless you go around in a string bikini top, the chest change isn't going to mentally register as strongly in people's minds (the clothes hide the chest so people create a mental image of a male chest if they know you as a male unless they've seen you withoout your shirt on).

Facial surgery is very important to me - for seeing myself in the mirror and presenting myself to others.

Then there is the matter of body weight. Women can be overweight but have big hips - they don't have the typically male "beer guts" and narrow male hips, so weight loss for some people (like myself) to get rid of that gut is very important.

Also walking and moving and talking like a woman vs a man are going to be big gender cues.

SRS/GRS is not for me. It's not how I define myself. The other things I mentioned (other than SRS/GRS) are much more imortant to me.



Posted on: September 29, 2007, 12:47:56 PM

---

Looking at Deb's picture, I am going to add to my comments a little - I was mostly thinking about my own situation.

For someone who transitions young - and someone who looks as young and beautiful as Deb - then SRS/GRS would be a very important thing to get done - to get on with a Female life and work history at the earliest possible point in time and to be able to date and enjoy life as a young women.

Deb, that was one of the most heart felt posts I have ever read here.  True, for some of us, SRS is a must; others, however, may not think that way and hence have other priorities.  Being legally a woman is one of the main reasons for SRS obviously.

Also, for heterosexual girls like us, it is imperative if we want to be romantically/sexually involved with men.  True, having a penis does not prevent us from doing so, but it DOES NOT feel right (at least in my case it didn't) IMHO and in my case, having a congruent body and mind was (is) VERY important despite the cliche which states that "gender is between the ears"

tink :icon_chick:

Deb,

I agree with Tink: your post was excellent and rang from the heart.

But, I also agree with Berleigh in at least one aspect of what she said. That no matter what you do some peopple are not going to accept any "new yous."

For whatever reasons they have they simply refuse to believe there has been any change. It happens. I think we are often enough able to "block" information from oursenses when our sense of who we are, what people are, etc are subject to violation by another's experience.

I suspect that you and I could find some people who would take a look at you and still maintain they saw "a man" were they to have knowledge of how your path to womanhood had run.

As you said: the answer to all those people, to anyone, is that I am who I am and who I have always been. Now, it is simply a matter of others no longer having as much evidence as they once had to view me as different than I am and have always been.

Hugs,

Nichole

Quote from: Tink on September 29, 2007, 01:04:41 PM

Also, for heterosexual girls like us, it is imperative if we want to be romantically/sexually involved with men.  True, having a penis does not prevent us from doing so, but it DOES NOT feel right (at least in my case it didn't) IMHO and in my case, having a congruent body and mind was (is) VERY important despite the cliche which states that "gender is between the ears"

tink :icon_chick:

I guess I may be wierd (ok I know I'm wierd but I may be wierder than I thought) but even though I am a lesbian I have never felt right using a penis and I feel that in order for me to ever have a fullfilling sex life I will have to have SRS. is it unusaul for a lesbian like me to feel this way? I am just courious!!

Quote from: Jessie_Heart on September 29, 2007, 01:56:28 PM

Quote from: Tink on September 29, 2007, 01:04:41 PM

Also, for heterosexual girls like us, it is imperative if we want to be romantically/sexually involved with men.  True, having a penis does not prevent us from doing so, but it DOES NOT feel right (at least in my case it didn't) IMHO and in my case, having a congruent body and mind was (is) VERY important despite the cliche which states that "gender is between the ears"

tink :icon_chick:

I guess I may be wierd (ok I know I'm wierd but I may be wierder than I thought) but even though I am a lesbian I have never felt right using a penis and I feel that in order for me to ever have a fullfilling sex life I will have to have SRS. is it unusaul for a lesbian like me to feel this way? I am just courious!!

I wouldn't consider it unusual at all.  You are just a woman and like most of us simply have the need to have an anatomy that is congruent with your mind.  Your gender identity has nothing to do with your sexual orientation. :)

tink :icon_chick:

ok just wondering thanks for the reply Tink!

Quote from: Wendy Kahr on September 29, 2007, 12:54:33 PM
Trust me, having SRS/GRS isn't going to change someone's mind who is alre4ady made up. They'll point out the Bible verses to say God created you a man and that means you're still a man. Or in the case of others that don't use the Bible to put us down but still don't see TS women as "real" women, they'll say "You weren't born a woman / You never had a period / etc. so will "Never know what it feels like to be a "real" woman...

People have to get SRS/GRS for their own reasons, not to convince anyone else.

There is the matter of legal documentation. - In the U.S. requiring SRS/GRS and proof of that to get a "F" gender marker on the drivers license, so that is a legal consideration. But that is the government / legal system, not individuals' opinions.

Myself, I would go for FFS, like Sandy did - outside of all the warnings of how intense the surgery and recovery is, looking at her pre and post FFS pictures, it's clear to me that FFS is the one thing that would make the biggest difference in other's acceptance who's opinions / views could be swayed. Also, FFS erases a lot of the old male facial gender cues, so it takes away a lot of what people visually remember you looking like in the face for those who knew you and remember you as a guy.

The hormones do soften the face somewhat, and even a small amount of chest growth can make a difference in how you feel about yourself. However, unless you go around in a string bikini top, the chest change isn't going to mentally register as strongly in people's minds (the clothes hide the chest so people create a mental image of a male chest if they know you as a male unless they've seen you withoout your shirt on).

Facial surgery is very important to me - for seeing myself in the mirror and presenting myself to others.

Then there is the matter of body weight. Women can be overweight but have big hips - they don't have the typically male "beer guts" and narrow male hips, so weight loss for some people (like myself) to get rid of that gut is very important.

Also walking and moving and talking like a woman vs a man are going to be big gender cues.

SRS/GRS is not for me. It's not how I define myself. The other things I mentioned (other than SRS/GRS) are much more imortant to me.



Posted on: September 29, 2007, 12:47:56 PM

---

Looking at Deb's picture, I am going to add to my comments a little - I was mostly thinking about my own situation.

For someone who transitions young - and someone who looks as young and beautiful as Deb - then SRS/GRS would be a very important thing to get done - to get on with a Female life and work history at the earliest possible point in time and to be able to date and enjoy life as a young women.

Sounds like you mostly agree with me.....

It's true that being a woman means needing to have a body congruent with one's gender, regardless of sexual orientation. But if you look at it from the sexuality point of view, actually, it seems to me a hetero woman would have if anything an even greater need for a vagina than a lesbian. Some lesbians like to do each other with strap-ons. But hetero men would definitely prefer to do all the penetrating, and to accommodate them you should have a vagina.

Quote from: Hypatia on September 30, 2007, 12:14:21 AM
It's true that being a woman means needing to have a body congruent with one's gender, regardless of sexual orientation. But if you look at it from the sexuality point of view, actually, it seems to me a hetero woman would have if anything an even greater need for a vagina than a lesbian. Some lesbians like to do each other with strap-ons. But hetero men would definitely prefer to do all the penetrating, and to accommodate them you should have a vagina.

I understand your point here and I was not trying to speak for all lesbian women just was wondering if what I felt was unusaul from what other lesbians felt I don't do the penatration thing so I guess I am more of a bottom lesbian. I really only wanted to know if I was so much different by how I felt!

Bottoms up!  ;D

Quote from: Tink on September 29, 2007, 04:36:57 PM

Quote from: Jessie_Heart on September 29, 2007, 01:56:28 PM

Quote from: Tink on September 29, 2007, 01:04:41 PM

Also, for heterosexual girls like us, it is imperative if we want to be romantically/sexually involved with men.  True, having a penis does not prevent us from doing so, but it DOES NOT feel right (at least in my case it didn't) IMHO and in my case, having a congruent body and mind was (is) VERY important despite the cliche which states that "gender is between the ears"

tink :icon_chick:

I guess I may be wierd (ok I know I'm wierd but I may be wierder than I thought) but even though I am a lesbian I have never felt right using a penis and I feel that in order for me to ever have a fullfilling sex life I will have to have SRS. is it unusaul for a lesbian like me to feel this way? I am just courious!!

I wouldn't consider it unusual at all.  You are just a woman and like most of us simply have the need to have an anatomy that is congruent with your mind.  Your gender identity has nothing to do with your sexual orientation. :)

tink :icon_chick:

woooo hooo :laugh:  way 2 go princes hehehehheheh

Quote from: Hypatia on September 30, 2007, 05:36:36 AM
Bottoms up!  ;D

I have done plenty of bottoms up (my wife is I guess the top she likes doing the penertration thing!!)  ;D :embarrassed:

In a recent conversation with my ex, I was talking about having GRS in June.  In the conversation she referred to a friend of mine she met.  She has never seen this friend presenting as male.  However, she used male pronouns but her female name when referring to her.  Then she made this comment regarding a person having GRS, "After the surgery she will be a woman."  :-\ My ex comes across as a very accepting person (as long as it's not her husband).  She has told me of countless times about TGs who have come into her store and had their hair done or purchased cosmetics and how she was totally okay with them.  I know she wanted me to feel there wasn't something terribly wrong with me but when she talked about these incidents I got the impression she accepted these customers as woman.  I was wrong.  And when I first told her I was having the surgery she said she was surprised.  Knowing her the way I do I'd say shocked is a more accurate description.

I will have GRS first.  That's what's most important to me.  Then I'll have FFS to get rid of the male markers I now have to hide.  My guess is if there are people who are still in denial after my GRS the FFS will tell them loud and clear this is for real.  We'll see.  Whatever the case I'll just accept it and move on.

The reason I originally posted this is I found myself somewhat surprised that after all I've said and done that anyone would have any doubts about my intentions.  But denial is a powerful thing and knowing that I shouldn't have been surprised.  This is just another lesson learned in my transition.  I'm not negatively affected by it, just a bit surprised.  I thought I have been pretty clear.

I guess we all need to take a good look at the reactions of family and friends and make sure they really understand what we said is for real.  That is, if it's important to you.  This society is very affected by visual presentation.  Standing in front of someone you know dressed in your identified gender is completely different than telling them your life story and how you feel and what you must do.  In all likelihood, the former will have a much bigger impact on them than the latter. 

Julie

Quote from: Julie Marie on September 30, 2007, 05:41:57 PM
However, she used male pronouns but her female name when referring to her.  Then she made this comment regarding a person having GRS, "After the surgery she will be a woman."  :-\

Julie

Perhaps she meant "anatomically".  Most cisgender people think that you *become a woman* the moment you have SRS.  Some will even go further and imply that a TS woman is a man regardless of the surgeries she might have had or the time she has lived her life as a woman.  What can I say?  unfortunately we live in that kind of world.  I guess we just have to educate every chance we get; it may not make such a big difference but at least the peace of mind we'll get from it will be worth it (at least in our circle of people we treat on a daily basis)

tink :icon_chick: 

Quote from: Tink on September 30, 2007, 06:03:17 PM

Quote from: Julie Marie on September 30, 2007, 05:41:57 PM
However, she used male pronouns but her female name when referring to her.  Then she made this comment regarding a person having GRS, "After the surgery she will be a woman."  :-\

Julie

Perhaps she meant "anatomically".  Most cisgender people think that you *become a woman* the moment you have SRS.  Some will even go further and imply that a TS woman is a man regardless of the surgeries she might have had or the time she has lived her life as a woman.  What can I say?  unfortunately we live in that kind of world.  I guess we just have to educate every chance we get; it may not make such a big difference but at least the peace of mind we'll get from it will be worth it (at least in our circle of people we treat on a daily basis)

tink :icon_chick: 

GRS or SRS doesn't make someone a woman and I have seen many 'men' who have had GRS........You are either a women from the start or not no matter what your genitalia is. You can usually tell who is naturally femimine and GRS is not in any way a gender indicator or a full gender change........I've seen women who still have their penises who look, feel and present far more as a 'women' than many people I've seen who have had GRS.....

Quote from: Berliegh on October 01, 2007, 03:18:38 AM

Quote from: Tink on September 30, 2007, 06:03:17 PM

Quote from: Julie Marie on September 30, 2007, 05:41:57 PM
However, she used male pronouns but her female name when referring to her.  Then she made this comment regarding a person having GRS, "After the surgery she will be a woman."  :-\

Julie

Perhaps she meant "anatomically".  Most cisgender people think that you *become a woman* the moment you have SRS.  Some will even go further and imply that a TS woman is a man regardless of the surgeries she might have had or the time she has lived her life as a woman.  What can I say?  unfortunately we live in that kind of world.  I guess we just have to educate every chance we get; it may not make such a big difference but at least the peace of mind we'll get from it will be worth it (at least in our circle of people we treat on a daily basis)

tink :icon_chick: 

GRS or SRS doesn't make someone a woman and I have seen many 'men' who have had GRS........You are either a women from the start or not no matter what your genitalia is. You can usually tell who is naturally femimine and GRS is not in any way a gender indicator or a full gender change........I've seen women who still have their penises who look, feel and present far more as a 'women' than many people I've seen who have had GRS.....

I agree with you on the fact that SRS doesn't make anyone a woman; however, if someone says they are women (regardless of passing issues), the right thing to do is to treat them as what they identify.  We have had endless discussions about this here at Susan's.  Passing shouldn't be a factor to determine gender identity or to "qualify" someone as a woman or a man.  I know I have been guilty of doing this myself (I'm guilty as charged).  Sometimes it is an automatic response and you feel that you don't have any control over it.  Nevertheless, as I said, the correct thing to do is to address people as what they wish to be addressed.

tink :icon_chick:

I also agree with you Tink. SRS is not the cure all for GID. I have always addressed people in their desired sex. There have been times when in my mind I was not sure what a person was so I just tried to take an educated guess. Sometimes I was right and some wrong.

All of us have to start from the begining at some point in our lives. Some peoples point is at a young age and some at a more mature age. We should always be as suportive as we can, so that no one has to go through rough times alone. I have heard some on this site say that unless you were at the stage they were at, they could not see giving advise. Girls and Boys you all started at the begining, and wouldn't it have been nice to have had a friend to talk to that had a little more time into this venture. I would have given anything to have had friends when I started that I could relate to. Don't be cruel!!

Julie I beleive in you. Anyone here that pours their heart out to strangers deserves to be treated with the utmost respect. I think that is all anyone here has ever wanted.

Deb

Quote from: Tink on October 01, 2007, 06:37:43 PM
I know I have been guilty of doing this myself (I'm guilty as charged).  Sometimes it is an automatic response and you feel that you don't have any control over it.  Nevertheless, as I said, the correct thing to do is to address people as what they wish to be addressed.
tink :icon_chick:

Thanks, Tink, for a wonderful, honest response.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

Quote from: debisl on October 02, 2007, 06:30:48 PMWe should always be as suportive as we can, so that no one has to go through rough times alone. I have heard some on this site say that unless you were at the stage they were at, they could not see giving advise. Girls and Boys you all started at the begining, and wouldn't it have been nice to have had a friend to talk to that had a little more time into this venture. I would have given anything to have had friends when I started that I could relate to. Don't be cruel!!

Deb

Deb, this is at the heart of what I've been saying.  It's all about acceptance, both of oneself and of others.  When you hear someone criticize the actions of another aren't they really saying, "I'm not as messed up as them"?  It takes the focus away from you and directs it on others, whom most of us don't really even know.  It's much easier to point out the faults in others than it is to work to correct the faults in yourself.

What's right for you is right for you.  Don't try to force your beliefs on others.  If someone is struggling and asks for your help, by all means give it.  But do so with the knowledge that your opinion is affected by your personality, your upbringing and your life's experiences.  What works for you may not, and probably won't, work for someone else.  We are all unique individuals and I see no harm in supporting one another, regardless if what they are doing suits our personality or not, so long as no one is hurt.

Acceptance, caring, love.  They sure beat being judgemental, intolerant and prejudiced.

Julie

Hi Deb and all

This is why I mainly came back to Susan's after being away for seven years. to support others in any way I can. Why? Because that is the type of person I am, always doing what I can to support another. I have done support work on other groups, none transgender, and I have also worked as a social worker for 20 years. I am post op but it took me nearly ten years getting there and I knew well what gender I was well before I got the operation. Now I am me, the me that was always within. I am woman.

Cindy   

I have concluded that since anyone will believe whatever they choose, I don't care who believes I am female or not.  I know who I am and as a result of HRT all of the mental and emotional inconsistencies within me have been rectified.  I am a woman, 24/7 because of how I see the world, see myself, deal with others, and how I see myself.  Words fail me here because for all of my life I have been like a building with its wiring all messed-up.  Some "floors" had alternating current, others radio frequency, some direct current.  To make life even more fun, the current in the building wasn't fit for its needed purpose, like plugging a toaster into 440 volts or trying to run an old-fashioned electric clock with a synchronous motor on 240 volts Direct Current.

There were more misfits and contradictions within me than there are in the entire U.S. Congress!

When I began taking estrogen under the supervision of my internist I started to feel a new serenity, a smoothing of rough edges, even to the point of warmth and softness where there had been none before.  I remember very well how it changed my gait, my posture, how I carried and held myself, how I took a seat; how I perceived and saw things, my choice of words, the syncopation of my speech,  everything I could think of.  I had some rudimentary sense of things that I never felt before.

The freedom continues and it is the stuff of dreams come true.

I will have my GRS in December 2008 or sooner, but since July 2, 2002 I have considered myself to be a "woman-in-progress."  I am not yet physically ready in my own mind to have intimate relations with anyone, so I don't.  My genitals have atrophied and shrunk and that's just fine with me. 

When I have GRS I will look at myself as soon as I can, and with stitches and all I will know that I am finally complete.  As the late Harry Chapin once sang, "...I finally like myself.  At last, I like myself."

The last place I have ever looked for support is in the family into which I was born and I have not been disappointed with their total nonacceptance of me.  Pits on them.  The new family I have found among my sisters is all the family I need.

Thank you for allowing me to decant.

Wing Walker
Part-time Resident Wind Bag

Quote from: Julie Marie on October 05, 2007, 10:54:13 PM
I see no harm in supporting one another, regardless if what they are doing suits our personality or not, so long as no one is hurt...

Acceptance, caring, love.  They sure beat being judgemental, intolerant and prejudiced.

And sometimes... well, sometimes being loving and accepting also may mean allowing others to BE judgemental, intolerant and prejudiced ;)

~Kate~

Julie what you said has hit home.

I need to appologise to some here on this site. When I try to help the best way I know how I always seam to put my foot in my mouth. I tend to be brutaly honest with people and sometimes I hurt them and it is not my intension to do so. My way of learning might not work for others. I did not have a complicated transition to womanhood as I did not have a spouse or kids to contend with. I just expect people to advance at the pase I di and that is not possible for all.

Thank You for bringing this out

Deb

Quote from: Kate on October 06, 2007, 07:57:13 AM

Quote from: Julie Marie on October 05, 2007, 10:54:13 PM
I see no harm in supporting one another, regardless if what they are doing suits our personality or not, so long as no one is hurt...

Acceptance, caring, love.  They sure beat being judgemental, intolerant and prejudiced.

And sometimes... well, sometimes being loving and accepting also may mean allowing others to BE judgemental, intolerant and prejudiced ;)

~Kate~

And if they choose to be judgmental or prejudiced, so be it.  It doesn't change who you are and it can only affect you if you let it.  We can't change other people, only ourselves.  Show people by example.  Be true to yourself.  Whatever the world does, it does.  We can't allow ourselves to be controlled by that if we want to know true peace and happiness.

Deb, I didn't intend what I said to be directed at you.  It was making general statements.  That it helped you warms my heart but I want you to know nothing I said was directed towards you.

Julie

Julie I know that!

I was just feeling guilty about a conversation I had last night with someone here. I think I was too brutaly honest about life in general as ascoiated with being transsexual. It is a very tough world to overcome. I just wanted to give a perspective on my experiances and I wound up with my foot in my mouth. I have to realize that I have been at this quest for quite a while longer than most. My road was the road I choose to follow. I can not force anyone else down the same road. Theirs may have a few stops, a few curves, and most likely a few more bumps than mine. I need to realize this!

My road was slick and straight. Once I turned down it, I ran as fast as I could without turning back. I slid many times, but always in a forward motion.

I just wanted to help steer a friend that really dosen't need steering at this moment.

Deb

Dear Deb,

Realize that the operative word you said here is "friend."  Perhaps your friend really did need steering, and it took a while for it to sink in.  If you do put your foot in your mouth, it just might mean you are human.  I, for one, happen to like humans. 

Kristi

I read through this thread with a hand on my heart. So many emotions, such feelings of one kind or another leapt from the page. Some very poignant expressions have been voiced; so many hands on hearts. Although I am post-op and out in the world, living my life to the full, being the confident, proverbial woman about town, I still remember the difficult times. So, I will open my heart to you here and voice a little more about me...

At aged eleven I had an emotional breakdown because I could not understand why I had not been born the same as other girls; I knew I had the right gender but the wrong sex. I was referred for gender linked counselling eventually moving on to becoming very focussed on my SRS and direction in life.  During those early years though, from seven to sixteen, I had to endure with being threatened daily at school. I was verbally bullied, punched, spat on, ostracised and publicly humiliated to name a few instances, even to the point of being shot, point blank, with an air pistol on one occasion; all this for simply addressing my femininity.

The ignorance, the lack of understanding, the cruelty and the homophobic overtone is in certain aspects of society still as prevalent as it was then. I had friends, who professed support dump me as soon as I had had my SRS. There are family members that do not speak to me now, and they already had an insight as to where my life was heading. Yet in opposition to this there are others who have been very supportive and treat me as simply a female friend and within the family a sister.

Our focussed determination through transition and then our surgery I think frightens some people. Perhaps it is fear fuelled by their ignorance and their inability to accept that we are being true to ourselves and actually have followed it through. Then of course there are other people who have insight and for them we are an inspiration...

The people we know, be they friends or family, have to realise, to learn, that SRS is not the end of the person that they knew but is a beginning for the woman that they should get to know.

Rara. x

Hi Rara

I do identify with much of what you said about childhood. I hated the school, that was the hardest part of my childhood but any other part of my childhood was wonderful. I had really wonderful parents and as for friends I hung around the res if I wasn't home. I was accepted there. As for my first memories of my being different, wanting to be a girl would have been around 6 years old, although I didn't know what it was except that I should never tell another soul. Well that's enough of that I am beginning to sound like a broken CD player if I continue with this. My married years were hell as well. Life didn't begin again for me until I decided I was better off living alone then I got me sobered up and started to make myself useful again to society.

But I will say that I belong to many different Yahoo Groups and have met many different people and have discovered that there are new kids on the block experiencing that same a we did. This is one of the reasons that many of the parents now a days are doing more and more home schooling.

Cindy

Quote from: Rara on October 08, 2007, 03:11:36 AMThe ignorance, the lack of understanding, the cruelty and the homophobic overtone is in certain aspects of society still as prevalent as it was then. I had friends, who professed support dump me as soon as I had had my SRS. There are family members that do not speak to me now, and they already had an insight as to where my life was heading. Yet in opposition to this there are others who have been very supportive and treat me as simply a female friend and within the family a sister.

Our focused determination through transition and then our surgery I think frightens some people. Perhaps it is fear fuelled by their ignorance and their inability to accept that we are being true to ourselves and actually have followed it through. Then of course there are other people who have insight and for them we are an inspiration...

The people we know, be they friends or family, have to realise, to learn, that SRS is not the end of the person that they knew but is a beginning for the woman that they should get to know.

Rara. x

Very well stated Rara.  I don't think a lot of us realize what you said is our reality.  I've seen focus on peripheral issues that are just the result of the basis of the treatment we typically receive once we've "crossed the line" (depending on the person's view) but so many miss the core of the problem, society is just plain ignorant about transsexualism. 

People who you believed loved you dearly suddenly ignore everything they know about you and judge you only for being transsexual.  People who respected you now hate you.  People you helped and who said they will support you through anything now ignore you.  The phone stops ringing, friends stop visiting, family members don't want you around.  And society supports this wholeheartedly.  This has to be pointed out and people have to understand this is a cruel and heartless way to treat someone you love.  And they have to understand society is just plain wrong. 

The biggest obstacle we have is the negative stigma the term transsexual has in this society.  In their eyes, there are few things one can do that is worse than changing gender, especially if going from male to female.  Add to that the perverted image painted by sensationalistic media looking for an easy buck and we're toast.  Many people are so phobic about transsexualism that just hearing the word sends them instantly into defense, or worse, attack mode.  Education is the only thing that will change that but we must get people to listen first.  That we present as our identified gender and still hear people ask if this is just a phase shows how deeply rooted it is in mainstream society not to even consider gender change.  Banish the thought!  That's why it's so important for each and every one of us to seize every opportunity to educate anyone who will listen and show them we are just ordinary people with an extraordinary challenge.

Julie