Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Ok so.. I am wondering if it would be a good idea or not to get the FFS done before hormones does its "maximal" job.

I hate my forehead ( yes it doesnt look so male but there is something off with it and it looks pronounced) I dont have the typical male brow bossing but my forehead is just pronounced ,i dunno how to explain it. My forehead is "almost" flat 4.5cm from my eyebrows  after that it slopes backward. It wouldnt require a big job but it would change so much to have it softened.  I however have kind of orbital ridge (and this is what i hate the most of my face). It also makes my nose looks weird i would love to have this zone flattened matching my forehead.  Talking about nose, i have the typical male bossing on it  wich i also hate so much.

Also if you look closely , you can notice that i have some kind of malformation . One side of my forehead is higher then the other one making one of my eye bigger then the other one and  making my eyebrows unfair.

Here is pictures of me a week before HRT ( god i hate posting pictures of me in boy mode)

On first picture you can see what i meant when i said i hate my forehead/nose

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F6he0JzQ.jpg&hash=a97c7fe5c5337db357b1632453869ec9c204f637)

on second picture you can see what i meant by "malformation" (brow higher then the other one, eye smaller then the other one) and you can also see what i hate of my "brow ridges" .

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FebUNWkO.jpg&hash=0a0390c7104a82e3574c30317d05ce88a02e78f7)

And here is a picture of me at 1 month mark( because i cant only post boy picture damnit lol)  You can see the problem with my brows and eyes here too.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FqQladam.jpg&hash=794a0f2f9bd7a61a7435b22d1de89a08df19b817)


So what do you think, should i wait like 10 months before getting FFS or if i do this kind of work right now it would be allright?  I want to do it with dr bensimon  .   The money is not an issue, i have it saved  since a long time.

thank you

If it was me, I think I'd wait.

You have no issues passing at all in my opinion, you look beautiful so there's no real urgency to have it done to progress in your transition, so I would wait until the HRT had had it's effects and see where you want to go from there.
I can see what you mean about your eyes/eyebrows in your boy-mode photos, but I wouldn't have noticed that in your fem pic if you hadn't mentioned it. I have a 'lazy eye' which doesn't work as well as the other and is slightly rugby ball shaped which results in a similar look to your eye. I've never noticed anyone noticing this and I think you see it more than others would because you're aware of it.

P x

I am from the do as few surgeries as possible school. Hormones take a long time to work and 2-3 years may still see changes to your face. With time on HRT you might find you don't need FFS.

Quote from: Dena on November 18, 2015, 05:27:42 PM
I am from the do as few surgeries as possible school. Hormones take a long time to work and 2-3 years may still see changes to your face. With time on HRT you might find you don't need FFS.

I am from that school too but i am 90% sure nothing will change in this region.  Maybe my eyes will get a little bigger and skin a little more softer but except from that, a forehead doesnt change at all.  It is bones + skin.  My hairline wont lower , my forehead wont get straight and  my malformation wont fix by itself too.  I dont want to have bangs on my forehead all my life to cover something that could be fixed through surgery.

From timelines i saw, hormones are effective on lower face (chin jaw) ,cheeks, nose ,lips .  ( Correct me if i am wrong)

This is why i am asking if it would be a good idea to have the job done on my upper face as barely nothing will change here (surely getting the tracheal shave at the same time  8) ) . I dont have any dysphoria of my lower face at all.

Quote from: Paige_tara on November 18, 2015, 05:21:20 PM

I can see what you mean about your eyes/eyebrows in your boy-mode photos, but I wouldn't have noticed that in your fem pic if you hadn't mentioned it. I have a 'lazy eye' which doesn't work as well as the other and is slightly rugby ball shaped which results in a similar look to your eye. I've never noticed anyone noticing this and I think you see it more than others would because you're aware of it.

P x

i agree with this but others arent the ones living  everyday with the dysphoria.   Btw thanks for compliment :)

You have frontally quite projected forehead. It's true there isn't a bossing as such, which is more common varation of masculine forehead, but frontally projected forehead is also a masculine gender marker. Most importantly in relation to your eyes, which are consequently deep set, with the hooding above them (eyes in the shadow effect). The other relation to this "forehead issue" is a balance between forehead and cheek bones, which are projected further back in relation to much more frontal forehead. A feminine balance would be cheekbones set frontally of forehead. This upper-middle-face area balance is the most important gender marker after the orbital rim area and expression of eyes (that orbital rims create).

Surgeon cant just feminize orbital rims, and smooth out forehead, because these two things kind of go together. Orbital rims can only be feminized as much as a forehead projection and shape above them allow. In a case like yours (projected forehead- which usually means large sinus), it would be required to do reconstruction of the lower half of forehead and do set-back, in order to achieve that naturally feminine orbital rim shape.   


"malformation" can be fixed if it's an issue because of uneven orbital bone, or just soft-tissue asymmetry. But eye position asymmetry can't be changed, and it really shouldn't even be considered for aesthetic reasons. Facial asymmetry, unless very dramatic, isnt necessarily bad. Its one of those things that adds characted to ones face.

Nose kind of goes together with forehead. It's about facial balance. Dont think about nose on its own, until you will made decision if you will want upper-face (forehead set-back) surgery. If you do rhinoplasty first... it would likely have to be redone if you later choose to also do upper face feminization (to allign it with forehead).

Your lower face isn't masculine and it isnt in any way problematic. I dont see anything to improve there, unless you would look from purely aesthetic point of view.


I don't think waiting for hormones to do their job makes any sense directly. But you need to take into account what happens after FFS, things like being ready to go full-time, and all other changes that happen along with that. There are a lot more important things to take into account than subtle changes that HRT makes on face. Being at least 75% done with facial hair removal is kind of important. You REALLY dont want to be full-time and still deal with facial hair issue.

Thank you.  You got exactly what i meant with my forehead being prominent.  Thanks for the advices this helps me to understand better what has to be done.. and i suppose that after that i wont have any other choice then going full-time. It is something i havent considered and that i dont know if i am totally ready for ( only 2 laser session done for exemple.).

thanks

Quote from: archlord on November 18, 2015, 06:58:00 PM
and i suppose that after that i wont have any other choice then going full-time.

I think it would be possible to wait and be patient and still present as male, but it's highly unlikely that you would do that. This is why it's important to plan these things at the right time, and go full-time when you feel ready and comfortable to do so.

You're welcome

Quote from: archlord on November 18, 2015, 05:35:43 PM
I am from that school too but i am 90% sure nothing will change in this region.  Maybe my eyes will get a little bigger and skin a little more softer but except from that, a forehead doesnt change at all.  It is bones + skin.  My hairline wont lower , my forehead wont get straight and  my malformation wont fix by itself too.  I dont want to have bangs on my forehead all my life to cover something that could be fixed through surgery.

Hiya! :) First off, I'd like to say that you're really pretty in girl mode! :D I think the slight asymmetry actually looks quite endearing and cute too, but I know what it's like living with stuff like that every day and constantly seeing it in the mirror :/ But as a random stranger, I think it looks nice :) Plus... pretty eyes!!

So about the bit I quoted above from one of your previous posts... I completely agree with that logic, some stuff (bone stuff) just wont change... I am a really anxious person in real life, a complete wuss! And I really hated being stared at etc. and I knew I couldn't deal with that for years... So 4 months after starting HRT I had a pretty full FFS done. I have absolutely no regrets 12 months on.. I can quietly go about my business with minimal make up, and despite being 6'0" have absolutely no issues... My face looked SO much more masculine than yours pre FFS too. I'm told I completely pass in that regard now :) I'm very lucky with having a naturally rather feminine bod too, which helps too I guess :) but no % pass prior to FFS..
I knew that HRT would help with some aspects of my face, but just like you said above, the bits that really bothered ME and would never let me pass would see no real change on HRT alone. So while I was still able to earn good money and save quickly, I made FFS a priority and really haven't looked back :)
Well good luck with you decision :) Claire

I think your my malformation can be resolved by injecting botox in the area to lift the brows.
And your bossing can be lessened by make-up.

thank you all.  I made my decision and i will wait to see where HRT can get me. I am still young and i think that it would be wise to wait and see what happens with fat redistribution. I may not require cheek implants at all due to fat redistribution. I also think that if i do it right now and  my face keep changing after then that my FFS would need revision wich i really dont want.  I will wait 10 month -1 year.

thanks all.