Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I have had vocal surgery about 9 months ago, and would like some feedback on this sound-snippet of my speaking voice as it is at the moment. I will mention more about my voice surgery in my next th

Firstly how does it come across? How can I perhaps improve it.

Pitch is at about the 200 Hz.

It would help us find you if stay with one thread instead of creating new ones because once we post to a thread, We will see any updates to it.

It sounds like you haven't had speech therapy and you started with a very low male voice. Your speech pattern is relatively flat and if you aren't using a trained voice, you can add extra pitch with very little effort. I am post surgical approaching 6 months and because my male voice was so low, I have to use the combination of surgical and trained voice in order to hit the feminine range. The surgery solves all of the voice problems for some but others it's only a piece of the puzzle.

Speech therapy would concentrated on two issues. You would learn the correct way to pitch your voice and how to add more inflection in your speech pattern. Pitching the voice is easy but if you are at 200 Hz, you need only a small amount, possibly 30 Hz would do it. For the speech pattern, listen to women speak and you will hear that their voice moves up and down over the scale. The range is larger that a male would use and this is one of the things that makes even a low voice sound feminine.

Dr Haben's web site says that a voice is 50% surgery and 50% therapy and often that is correct. I had the therapy about 35 years ago but the surgery wasn't available. I am just now combining the two.

I remember that soundbit from another thread, I believe? Did you post this already?

I would agree that it is somewhat androgynous, to a large degree probably because of the raspiness and your voice use (inflection, speech pattern, resonance). My assumption would be that if people see you , they will get it right, on the phone, I would guess that sometimes people will be a bit confused.

What surgeries did you get so far?

The next step would probably be not to do another surgery but to do voice rehab and speech therapy. I don't know your insurance situation, but possibly if your voice is raspy and sounds a bit broken (like when you say "Janice Joplin"), you may possibly be eligible for regular speech rehab to get rid of the hoarseness and raspiness? In addition to that, it may be worth looking for gender voice therapy to work on the resonance (and possibly speech patterns).

I had glottoplasty with Dr Kim and no further surgery there and I found that my voice reacts much different to a female resonance and speech pattern than if I was to use a male resonance or speech pattern. The latter makes me sound hoarse and broken, apparently my voice just is not made anymore for this sort of voice use, so it sounds bad. If this is happening to you, maybe you need to "find your voice" by getting into the right resonance and phonation pattern...

Quote from: Dena on December 28, 2015, 07:42:21 AM
It sounds like you haven't had speech therapy and you started with a very low male voice. Your speech pattern is relatively flat and if you aren't using a trained voice, you can add extra pitch with very little effort. I am post surgical approaching 6 months and because my male voice was so low, I have to use the combination of surgical and trained voice in order to hit the feminine range.

I have had speech therapy both pre and post-op, though perhaps I need to change to a SLP that understands resonance therapy. My pre-op base pitch was about 130 Hz and my pre-op trained voice about 180 hz. Post op my base pitch is about 190 Hz and post-op speaking voice is about 200 Hz, without any effort. I can use my voice in a range of about 160 Hz to 300 Hz.

Quote from: anjaq on December 28, 2015, 08:47:50 AM
I remember that soundbit from another thread, I believe? Did you post this already?

I would agree that it is somewhat androgynous, to a large degree probably because of the raspiness and your voice use (inflection, speech pattern, resonance). My assumption would be that if people see you , they will get it right, on the phone, I would guess that sometimes people will be a bit confused.

What surgeries did you get so far?

The next step would probably be not to do another surgery but to do voice rehab and speech therapy. I don't know your insurance situation, but possibly if your voice is raspy and sounds a bit broken (like when you say "Janice Joplin"), you may possibly be eligible for regular speech rehab to get rid of the hoarseness and raspiness? In addition to that, it may be worth looking for gender voice therapy to work on the resonance (and possibly speech patterns).

I had glottoplasty with Dr Kim and no further surgery there and I found that my voice reacts much different to a female resonance and speech pattern than if I was to use a male resonance or speech pattern. The latter makes me sound hoarse and broken, apparently my voice just is not made anymore for this sort of voice use, so it sounds bad. If this is happening to you, maybe you need to "find your voice" by getting into the right resonance and phonation pattern...

This sound bite is new. I thought it better to post one where I use natural speech. You are spot on with some of your observations. In face to face meetings, I am hardly ever misgendered and in my daily life I am 100% in stealth. I can still get misgendered on the phone. Surgery has meant that I no longer have to worry about pitch, but resonance is still an issue when I am speaking. I am not totally over the surgery and still suffer from low volume and I am still learning to use my new vocal cords. I find it difficult to cold start the voice. Mornings are worst, and it gets better after I have warmed up.
The main point of this thread was to get some honest feedback of how my voice is percieved, without giving out too much information beforehand.
I appreciate you taking the time.

Hi, Lyndsey.  This is the same sound file you posted on December 7th in jollyjoy's thread.  People have given a lot of feedback there already in case you haven't seen all of the replies.

Quote from: kwala on December 28, 2015, 12:07:38 PM
Hi, Lyndsey.  This is the same sound file you posted on December 7th in jollyjoy's thread.  People have given a lot of feedback there already in case you haven't seen all of the replies.

Lyndsey? Wrong thread me thinks :-)

Quote from: gentlebreeze on December 28, 2015, 12:10:15 PM
Lyndsey? Wrong thread me thinks :-)

Perhaps you posted someone else's link?  I think you should double check your original post because it is identical to the link posted by Lyndsey in another thread, and the audio file opens with, "Hello, people, this is Lyndsey..."

Quote from: kwala on December 28, 2015, 01:43:18 PM
Perhaps you posted someone else's link?  I think you should double check your original post because it is identical to the link posted by Lyndsey in another thread, and the audio file opens with, "Hello, people, this is Lyndsey..."

Geez. You are right..I had listened to Lindsey's recording and had it open in another window. I must have copied the wrong vocaroo link. Now that is embarrassing.

I'm going to unlock the thread. I still don't know how it got locked, but I am looking into it this. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: gentlebreeze on December 28, 2015, 02:14:43 PM
Geez. You are right..I had listened to Lindsey's recording and had it open in another window. I must have copied the wrong vocaroo link. Now that is embarrassing.

Don't worry, one of my first actions as moderator was to mess up a members post. I have become paranoid about the modify post button as the result.

Quote from: gentlebreeze on December 28, 2015, 02:14:43 PM
Geez. You are right..I had listened to Lindsey's recording and had it open in another window. I must have copied the wrong vocaroo link. Now that is embarrassing.

No need to be embarrassed!  But now you know why everyone was a bit  ???

If you post the correct link, I'm sure people will be more than willing to give you the feedback you're looking for  :D

OK. I am really sorry about all of that. Sorry Lyndsey....honest mistake. This is a recording of the rainbow passage and open for comment, if anyone is still willing.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0WCi4wnKUEy

:'(

Sorry to tell you this, but I think the link is broken. Good news is third time is the charm.

Quote from: Dena on December 29, 2015, 01:15:08 AM
Sorry to tell you this, but I think the link is broken. Good news is third time is the charm.

The link seems to be working now.

I don't know what was wrong with the link last night but you are correct that it works now. Your voice is in the feminine range and contains enough inflection that you shouldn't have any problems in person. If you have problems on the telephone it could be because of two possible problem. In some cultures women speak in an unnatural high pitch above  the normal western pitch of women. I have had this problem when talking to men with very heavy foreign accents. The other thing that would help putting a bit more expression in the first few sentences of a conversation. Once the listeners ears say female, it will continue to identify you that way for the remainder of the of the conversation.

Your voice sounds pretty good overall but it is important to understand that sometimes CIS women are mis gendered over the phone. My mother has a feminine voice and is in the feminine range but because her shortened name is used by males, she will be called sir.

Quote from: Dena on December 29, 2015, 07:24:37 AM
I don't know what was wrong with the link last night but you are correct that it works now. Your voice is in the feminine range and contains enough inflection that you shouldn't have any problems in person. If you have problems on the telephone it could be because of two possible problem. In some cultures women speak in an unnatural high pitch above  the normal western pitch of women. I have had this problem when talking to men with very heavy foreign accents. The other thing that would help putting a bit more expression in the first few sentences of a conversation. Once the listeners ears say female, it will continue to identify you that way for the remainder of the of the conversation.

Your voice sounds pretty good overall but it is important to understand that sometimes CIS women are mis gendered over the phone. My mother has a feminine voice and is in the feminine range but because her shortened name is used by m.ales, she will be called sir.

Thank you for taking the time to listen.

Good advice about raising the first sentences in a conversation. Not heard that one before. Its interesting that I get opposing opinions about whether it comes across as male or female. The Rainbow passage is monotonous in itself.


This is a sample of my natural speech in English.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0rXcw0VUgLn

This is the PRAAT data:

   Mean pitch: 197 Hz
   Minimum pitch: 143 Hz
   Maximum pitch: 310 Hz

I think your voice sounds good.  I agree that it sounds more feminine in your casual recording than when reciting the rainbow passage.  I think Dena has given you some good feedback and one thing I will add is to think about speeding up your cadence just a bit.  Your speech has a slow tempo with rhythmic pauses.  Just a bit more speed and things will flow better. Just my personal opinion so take what you will from it :D.  Congrats on the surgery, it seems to have done its job!  I'm over 2 months post op from Dr. Haben's office and I really hope my voice is that clear in the coming weeks.  As of now it's still a scratchy mess.

Quote from: kwala on December 29, 2015, 11:37:38 AM
I think your voice sounds good.  I agree that it sounds more feminine in your casual recording than when reciting the rainbow passage.  I think Dena has given you some good feedback and one thing I will add is to think about speeding up your cadence just a bit.  Your speech has a slow tempo with rhythmic pauses.  Just a bit more speed and things will flow better. Just my personal opinion so take what you will from it :D.  Congrats on the surgery, it seems to have done its job!  I'm 2 months post op from Dr. Haben's office and I really hope my voice is that clear in the coming weeks.  As of now it's still a scratchy mess.

Thanks Kwala. Speeding it up is not that bad an idea. I am still not totally over my surgery so I tend to pronounce my words more clearly and it might be coming across as slow, so I will definitely keep that in mind. It is quite easy to become a little paranoid about voice and some days I do struggle.
Congrats on your own surgery. It really does take time to heal and it will get better and better.
I am constantly in doubt about my voice and have days where I think it sounds horrible, but there are those moments where it is great and that is what pushes me on. 

Gentlebreeze, who did your surgery? I think your voice sounds nice and feminine, but I still hear some remaining hoarseness, and the hoarseness is quite similar to mine. Is hoarseness an issue you're still dealing with at this time? Maybe it will go away with more time?

I see that the pitch definitely is in the female range - around 200 Hz, thats perfect. What I notice as possible issues are mainly 2 things and that is prosody and resonance.

Prosody: Your tempo is a bit slow and you seem to speak in a very controlled manner, carefully pronouncing each word on its own with a break in between. This comes off as somewhat unnatural, as if you are talking to an elderly person with hearing problems maybe. You are using some voice melody, so that should help with the perception of a female voice, your intonations seem to me quite ok as well. Is it possible that you take some effort in controlling melody and intonations and this is what makes the voice tempo so slow?

Resonance: I believe this is the typical issue in a way. Your voice sounds at times like a woman trying to do a male voice. When lowering pitch does not work to simulate that, we try to "do a male voice" by changing resonance away from the mouth and lips and back into the throat a bit. I believe that this happens to you at times, which makes the voice androgynous at times. Since you have a SLP working with you, maybe this is a focus you should concentrate on - some of the Yeson exercises are designed to help with that as well - particularly doing the  humming MMMM and MMMiiii sounds and trying to feel the vibration in the lips and cheeks.

The "trick" with changing the voice a bit at the beginning of a conversation is a good one - I did that all the time on the phone and probably still do it - my voice goes up at the beginning and then drops lower later in the conversation. I read an article lately that many or most women do this actually - go up in pitch at the beginning of a phone conversation - and if the partner is male, the pitch will remain higher, sometimes even go more up, if the partner is female, the pitch will drop lower. Its fascinating. But that initial increase in pitch and softness and expression - all of that - it helps determine the initial gender perception of the voice, which then is basically fixed even if the voice changes throughout the conversation

It sounds fine to me. I can't see how you would have any problems once you get all the healing done. Even the scratchiness is sort of cute and feminine.

Cindi

Thank you all for taking the time to listen. I have been given some great supportive advice and it is much appreciated.

GB