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Last night I was hanging wit my friend and she told me she keeps catching people staring our direction n she tried to say it was cause I'm transgender but to me if people were staring at me for that 3 guys n 1 girl wouldn't hav hit on me.

Your a good looking girl and I assume your friend is also attractive (?). Good looking girls get stared at. Wonder if your friend might be a little uncomfortable with you being transgender ?

if your avatar is a good representation of how you really look  I don't think you need to worry about anyone clocking you too readily. You look a lot better than me and I rarely get clocked when wearing make up and a dress , I usually get told I'm going in the wrong rest room if I use the men's and that's without make up and jeans. I think if some guy is checking you out completely maybe what you say he notices bigger hands than normal  , but I really think in your case it's just a lot of people no each other where you hang out and word gets around and you do tell people your trans.

Not necessarily clocking you but maybe their brain thinks something is off.

Once a woman was looking at me when I was using the restroom sink at Costco. I turned to her, smiled and said hello. She smiled and said hi back. Weird.

When you are the best dressed, sexiest, or otherwise stand out woman in the field of view, I think there is a good reason reason for others to stare.

Now, if If I wanted to drive myself crazy with all the insecurities I have and hey, let's not forget the self-esteem that is often in the sub-basement, I can easily go negative. I did that back in early 20's during my 'failed' transition experiments. I had enough of that BS

Unless your friend is a mind reader I wouldn't put much stock in her theories. And to answer your question... nope.

I usually take it as "I'd totally do her."

And yes, I don't give a rat's ass if I get clocked.  Happened today by the trans guy sitting next to me.  We both had a grin about it.

Thanx so much, Jill,

I will start to think that... great stress relief.  For the most part I dont care if I get clocked. But some times I does bother me.

Angelique  you are totally beautiful....  I think the stares are due to that you are eye candy

Quote from: Angélique LaCava on January 01, 2016, 08:30:58 PM
Last night I was hanging wit my friend and she told me she keeps catching people staring our direction n she tried to say it was cause I'm transgender but to me if people were staring at me for that 3 guys n 1 girl wouldn't hav hit on me.

Omg, sooo much experience in this realm. I get stared at all the freaking time, especially by women. People even do 180-degree turns to look at me. It wasn't until my fearless boyfriend started pulling these people aside and inquiring what that was all about that we realized that it's because I'm simply stunning and unique-looking. So, that was a plus.

Ally

Quote from: iKate on January 01, 2016, 08:50:22 PM
Not necessarily clocking you but maybe their brain thinks something is off.

Once a woman was looking at me when I was using the restroom sink at Costco. I turned to her, smiled and said hello. She smiled and said hi back. Weird.

This has happened to me. I was in a restroom in a restaurant that is in a nearby mall and a woman was staring at me while washing my hands. I just smiled and and said hi and she seemed to be more at ease when I did this and I walked out. I thought maybe she had clocked me. A few minutes later, my wife and I caught up to her in the mall from behind as she was greeting an acquaintance of hers and I overheard her say: "I just saw the tallest women I've ever met in person, but I know she wasn't a man because she didn't have an Adam's Apple."

So yes sometimes people stare when you are tall, which I had a problem when I started going full time in that I didn't know if I was being starred at for being tall of if it was because I was being clocked. I then noticed that it didn't happen while sitting so I know now I wasn't being clocked. Other things can cause people to stare. Good looks, hair, etc can all cause people to stare and as a woman, you get more noticed in general. Being transgender just isn't on most people's radar.

no it does not automatically mean that. Have you ever stared at an attractive cis person? of course

I get stares pretty much every where I go. Pretty sure it's my hair though, cause it only happened after I dyed it :angel:

Quote from: KittyKat on January 02, 2016, 02:20:19 AM
I get stares pretty much every where I go. Pretty sure it's my hair though, cause it only happened after I dyed it :angel:

nice work, I did mine pink flamingo back in the late 90's groups of people would follow me. Not sure if they thought I was someone famous or what.

Yes and how she know at who the stare ? And looking at your avatar that low cut does help to attract boy,s views  ::) Maybe the find you just stunning.

I had a guy give me "the stare". I caught his eye and he had a confused look so I put it down to being clocked. 5 min later I'm coming out of a shop. He stops me (I think "oh s*** I'm going to get attacked or something"). He introduces himself, says I was the classiest dressed woman on the street (which was kings road, Chelsea, quite an achievement) and he wanted my number. Wow! I'm sure I get clocked a lot as I'm only part time so only look ok, but that experience at least lets me deny it to myself

As others pointed out women get stared at a lot more in general.
When I started to go out dressed as me I had this insecurity that people must be staring at me because they clocked me or found something wrong with me(as that was the case a lot of times before). To this day very few people clocked me in public, most of it was when I was after facial hair removal sessions.

A few years ago it was hard for me to believe that I could look like a normal human being ever, so it was a little surprising that I seem to attract the attention of guys and on more than a few occasions they expressed their various desires about me as well.

This is the difference between men and women. If a guy checks out another guy to closely, he is considered gay so most men don't care or don't do it. Women are always looking at other woman to learn how to improve their appearance. A CIS women expect to be checked out by other women and the more attractive she is, the more she is checked out. In addition women will compare observations with friends. Just because a woman stares at you isn't and indication you have been clocked and often it's a compliment.

Often, women are dressing as much for other women as they are for men because the know they will be viewed by other women and need to pass inspection. This is a reason why two women wearing the same dress is a fashion disaster. A woman is not interested in copying another's fashions but want to better the other's style.

Short of questioning the staring individual you'll never know why they were staring.

They might have clocked you, but it is far more likely that they just found you interesting to look at. The possibility of encountering a transgender person is very far removed from most people's thoughts.

What Dena said is true - women stare for different reasons than men do. For men the stare is to gauge desirability. For women the stare is to judge your appearance.

If they aren't laughing then its safe to assume they aren't judging you. I get sideways glances every now and then and I'm not full time. I just keep on struttin'.

What i have learnt that women are very competitive and are very bitchy to each other. They often will criticise a women or glare when you look better in an outfit than they would.

My lady juice has blessed my with larger breasts (D cups). I do love to wear outfits that show my cleavage off a bit and I do get men that don't look at my face, but my breasts. I think.. hay buddy my face is up here. Some of them take a look, even if there partners are with them.

I love it when men stare at me, and women i am sure judge me, it part of being a woman.If they clock me, who cares.. no one has ever said something to me. I when I was single, i had men try chat me up.

Some people stare for completely different reasons than what you'd probably think. I'm always paranoid that sometimes I get clocked whenever people look at me or have an extended glance. I sometimes wear contact lenses that make my eyes appear bigger so I think that might actually be the reason people stare at me. Having really long or colored hair can sometimes have an effect too as mentioned already. When I have my hair down I noticed that I get looked at a lot more than usual... So all in all, if you have some sort of striking features, that might be the case instead of them thinking you're trans.

Someone staring at you doesn't mean they clocked you. To most people, trans is the last thing on someone's mind. Girls look at each other. Especially if you are attractive. I had a girl staring at me on the train one day and I started getting nervous. Then she started making her way towards me and I thought something bad was about to happen. All she wanted to do was compliment me on the pendant that I was wearing on my necklace and get a closer look to see what it was. It's dichroic glass, actually quite stunning. :)

Quote from: Eva Marie on January 02, 2016, 11:07:33 AM
Short of questioning the staring individual you'll never know why they were staring.

They might have clocked you, but it is far more likely that they just found you interesting to look at. The possibility of encountering a transgender person is very far removed from most people's thoughts.

What Dena said is true - women stare for different reasons than men do. For men the stare is to gauge desirability. For women the stare is to judge your appearance.

Yes.

OP I'd say have some self confidence.
Often transgender people are a bit outside of the norm which can be very attractive.
-models are of greater height than the average
-the legs are often long which men tend to like very much...
-some features can be very attractive. Sandra Bullock is said to be one example for having features like a chin outside of the norm....


hugs

Guys stare. It's what they do. They also almost always seem to be completely oblivious to what's going on around them. I've been in full time mode for awhile now, but it wasn't until I wore bright nail polish that any of them even noticed the clothing change. Women also seem to look a little bit longer if they like something you're wearing. Unless someone actually walks up to you and says something, I wouldn't worry about it. Most people, in my experience at least, would never be a jerk like that.

No, it doesn't. My suggestion, stop worrying about it and just have fun. It's too stressful letting what you think others are thinking about weigh on you all the time.

For me, I just assume that everyone knows even though many don't. Then I can be pleasantly surprised every time I tell them and they respond saying they had no idea ;)

When I first stated to transition  a few years ago I was always  concerned about people staring at me or appearing to, but my Deportment coach told me to always look into people's eyes , keep your head up and most importantly smile. As I have further transitioned and more importantly feminized I rarely seem to get clocked these days, since my breasts are pretty obvious and I am  now completely natural and genuinely I present pretty well. Fairly recently I was out with a cis gender girl friend and having my nails done and this other girl was giving me the "stare" then I just smiled back and she sort of leaned over and said I just adore your lipstick, can you tell me what make and colour it is as it really suits you and brings out your natural skin tone.  I thought I had been clocked , but in reality it was just another woman commenting on my make-up. My girlfriend said - what do you expect - you don't have an Adams Apple (I never have) and you have very little facial hair now , so no one would give a second thought that you are anything except a normal woman.

So I think the thing to remember is its all about feeling and displaying confidence.
Judith

I had a woman in her seventies look at me from top to bottom a couple of days ago, It can drive you nuts

Quote from: almightymouse on January 02, 2016, 12:23:41 AM
Omg, sooo much experience in this realm. I get stared at all the freaking time, especially by women. People even do 180-degree turns to look at me. It wasn't until my fearless boyfriend started pulling these people aside and inquiring what that was all about that we realized that it's because I'm simply stunning and unique-looking. So, that was a plus.

Ally

I am not discounting the fact that you might be stunning and unique looking, but, what did you expect these people to say? Of course they were not going to say "we were looking because she was trans" and, therefore, they came up with the excuse that they were staring because you are stunning.

Quote from: judithlynn on January 14, 2016, 12:16:37 AM
I present pretty well. Fairly recently I was out with a cis gender girl friend and having my nails done and this other girl was giving me the "stare" then I just smiled back and she sort of leaned over and said I just adore your lipstick, can you tell me what make and colour it is as it really suits you and brings out your natural skin tone.  I thought I had been clocked , but in reality it was just another woman commenting on my make-up. My girlfriend said - what do you expect - you don't have an Adams Apple (I never have) and you have very little facial hair now , so no one would give a second thought that you are anything except a normal woman.

So I think the thing to remember is its all about feeling and displaying confidence.
Judith

Unfortunately, having no facial hair and no adam's apple is necessary but NOT sufficient to passing as a female. I wish that was that easy. The truth is that most of us have very masculinized facial structures that remain masculine even after FFS. People will tell you what you want to hear. When someone stares at you and then pull out an excuse that they were staring because they like your earrings or lipstick, it's a dead giveaway that they have clocked. They have to find somehow an excuse. Some people are rude and will clock you and out you, other people try to be more considerate and will use an excuse and pretend they were staring for another reason.

Quote from: Alaia on January 05, 2016, 11:38:29 PM


For me, I just assume that everyone knows even though many don't. Then I can be pleasantly surprised every time I tell them and they respond saying they had no idea ;)

When I worked in retail, I have had a couple of trans women and I was very polite and called them "she", however, I knew they were trans in a split second. Some of them told me they were trans and I said I had no idea "even though I did have an idea. It's called tact and diplomacy.

Quote from: Eva Marie on January 02, 2016, 11:07:33 AM
Short of questioning the staring individual you'll never know why they were staring.

And even if you question the staring individual, they will likely give you an excuse and will never tell you that they were staring at you because they clocked you

Quote from: Denya on June 20, 2016, 04:38:35 AM
When I worked in retail, I have had a couple of trans women and I was very polite and called them "she", however, I knew they were trans in a split second. Some of them told me they were trans and I said I had no idea "even though I did have an idea. It's called tact and diplomacy.

Maybe you should start using tact and diplomacy with some people here then? Rather than making them paranoid when you haven't even seen them.

While many do, there is no way the OP has a masculine face. Who knows? Maybe she's 6ft4 with feet like banana boats. But I see nothing screaming 'man' and I'm quite critical.

Quote from: alex82 on June 20, 2016, 05:45:20 AM
Maybe you should start using tact and diplomacy with some people here then? Rather than making them paranoid when you haven't even seen them.

While many do, there is no way the OP has a masculine face. Who knows? Maybe she's 6ft4 with feet like banana boats. But I see nothing screaming 'man' and I'm quite critical.

I do not need to use diplomacy here. It won't help the OP. I agree with you, the OP does NOT have a masculine face based on the picture, but a 3/4 picture says absolutely nothing. Pictures are VERY deceiving and trans women tend to, unconsciously, only take pictures at certain angles and under certain lights

Quote from: Denya on June 20, 2016, 11:31:02 AM
I do not need to use diplomacy here. It won't help the OP. I agree with you, the OP does NOT have a masculine face based on the picture, but a 3/4 picture says absolutely nothing. Pictures are VERY deceiving and trans women tend to, unconsciously, only take pictures at certain angles and under certain lights

Hi Denya,

Welcome to the site. You appear to be  a newly posting member. As such I have some links I would like to share with you. They are mostly welcome information and the rules of the site. If you have not read them yet, please take a look at them.

I also wanted to mention what a supportive site this. We have a lot of members from all walks of life, all over the world, all ages and all places along the trans spectrum. There are many success stories and some challenged. I couldn't help but notice that all of your posts are pragmatic if not negative. I am sure you are trying to be helpful based on your own experiences and observations. You seem to be trying to make sure members are fully awake and aware. However, some of us need a little more encouragement than others and many have different expectations as well as results. So, while what you posted about not needing to use tact and diplomacy is literally true, there are some times when they are useful tools(here as well as other situations).

Here are the links:

Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html)	Standard Terms & Definitions (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html)	Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar) (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,114.0.html.)
Reputation rules (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,18960.0.html)	News posting & quoting guidelines (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,174951.0.html)	Photo, avatars, & signature images policy (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,59974.msg383866.html#msg383866)

I hope you find what you are looking for here.

Warmly,

Joanna

Thank you. I am so sorry, I do not mean to upset anybody, believe me. But I know that sugarcoating the truth is more harmful, in the long run. There is a positive power to being a little pessimistic. You expect the worst and good things might happen.
When I started my transition, I visited these boards and I had high hopes because everybody kept telling me how magical hormones are. I was very, very disappointed. I wish someone would have told me the truth. SO, I don't want others to be as disappointed as I was.

Trust me, I have no intention of hurting anybody with my words. Being transsexual is very hard.

Quote from: Joanna50 on June 20, 2016, 12:26:58 PM
Hi Denya,

Welcome to the site. You appear to be  a newly posting member. As such I have some links I would like to share with you. They are mostly welcome information and the rules of the site. If you have not read them yet, please take a look at them.

I also wanted to mention what a supportive site this. We have a lot of members from all walks of life, all over the world, all ages and all places along the trans spectrum. There are many success stories and some challenged. I couldn't help but notice that all of your posts are pragmatic if not negative. I am sure you are trying to be helpful based on your own experiences and observations. You seem to be trying to make sure members are fully awake and aware. However, some of us need a little more encouragement than others and many have different expectations as well as results. So, while what you posted about not needing to use tact and diplomacy is literally true, there are some times when they are useful tools(here as well as other situations).

Here are the links:

Things that you should read

Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html)	Standard Terms & Definitions (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html)	Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar) (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,114.0.html.)
Reputation rules (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,18960.0.html)	News posting & quoting guidelines (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,174951.0.html)	Photo, avatars, & signature images policy (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,59974.msg383866.html#msg383866)

I hope you find what you are looking for here.

Warmly,

Joanna

Hey Denya, Soooo I know everyone has a right to their opinion, but honestly I disagree with most of what you have said. However, I do agree that some, not all, people will be nice and not just straight up say "Yeah I clocked you" when questioned. They will use tact and diplomacy. It may just be how I interpret your posts, but they seem to be definitive, like every time someone stares it's because they clocked you and it's never because they actually like something about you. I've given plenty of women compliments on many things from their voice to makeup to clothes/jewlery and never once was I thinking trans or not... "And even if you question the staring individual, they will likely give you an excuse and will never tell you that they were staring at you because they clocked you". One can also draw whatever conclusion they want from a compliment or comment so saying they meant this or that is hard. Here are some examples in my life that I find to be definitive of my "passing"; feel free to disagree.

1. Started talking to a guy who approached me. He came over one day and was super in to me. Checking me out, starting convo, flirting, touching, etc... Seeing that he wanted a more serious commitment, I told him that I was trans and then I never heard from him again lol His loss ;) He said he had no idea. Based on our interactions, I believed him.

2. At a club. Saw a friend there from a few years before I started transitioned. We were good friends and worked together. Anyways, we started talking and I told him who I was as he had no clue lol He told me that the friends that he was there with said to him "Who is that girl?? She's f@#$n hot!!!". That was before I approached my friend. Third party had no reason to lie to my friend especially since my friend didn't even recognize me.

3. Numerous guys and girls staring and then coming up to me at clubs or in public and trying to pick me up. Who knows, maybe they're all into trans girls  ??? :)

4. Many more similar experiences.


I've had people clock me as well or give me strange stares so I take that as being clocked although I'm not completely sure. Could be because I was scantily clad HEHEHEHEHE

So to answer the OPs question. No, I do not believe that every time someone stares, they clock you. At the end of the day, as long as people are nice/respectful to me, then I couldn't care less whether I'm clocked everyday :)

Once again I am not arguing or saying that your opinion is wrong. It just differs strongly from my life experiences. Nothing but love here  :D

To me:
Staring does not  = Clocking
Compliments do not = Passing

Transwomen tend to be pretty careful in 'putting themselves together' before going out in public, more so than many ciswomen.  The passing concern likely is a big factor in this.  One can attract a stare just from standing out a bit compared to others.   I'm not talking about being dressed inappropriately, but being dressed a bit better, in a more flattering way, than others in the crowd.

I had a really funny example of this a few weeks ago.  I was on my way to a group session, walking in from the parking lot.  I was wearing compression pants, an irregular cut jersey that's a bit bodycon on top, but makes my hips look better, and a fun black wig, shoulder length with bangs.  Now, my face doesn't pass at all, but once assembled, my body looks pretty good for someone in their 60s.  I'm careful about that.  There was an older gentleman getting out of his car, and I caught him looking at my legs and torso pretty intently.  :)  When his eyes finally looked up at my face (Yo, my eyes are up here) they got ever so big and round.  :D  Yeah, you were totally checking out a dude in a dress, bub!

I figure most states that I get are because I'm confusing looking. I know I don't pass, but then I don't try super hard either. I get complimented on some jewelry sometimes or the nail polish in wearing.
I've come to accept that I look outside the norm. Hopefully as time passes I'll look more feminine and I'll ease into my 50's as a normal looking woman, but I don't have the illusion that I'll ever be hot. Not that I wouldn't mind that, it's just something I'll have to accept.

Hi Iliana,

thank you for your insightful post.

I totally agree with you that if a guy was into you and then he disappears after you tell him you are trans, then, he didn't clock you. There is no question about that.

However, I do know a lot of trans people who look obviously unusual. They get stares. They ask me why they get stares. What should I tell them? Should I tell them what their therapists and friends say, that they get stares because they are gorgeous? Or should I tell them that they get stares because they were clocked? I have been in public places with them and, trust me, I can totally say with all certainty that in their specific cases, the stares mean clocking. IN other cases, the stares might mean confusion and not necessarily clocking.

I think I was misunderstood as I always am when I bring up this topic. My goal is not to be super hot or gorgeous but to pass unnoticed. There is a big difference. When I go to trans group meetings and someone says they want to pass, the immediate response is that whoever wants to pass is superficial and can't expect to be a super-model. We are NOT talking about being a supermodel or Kim Kardashian (some other poster mentioned Kim Kardashian). We want to blend in so we are not questioned and scrutinized.



As for your second example at a club, in clubs there is a lot of alcohol (beer goggles), dim lights, it is much easier to pass to someone who sees you from far away. Again, I am NOT discounting your experience, I am just saying that passing in a club in dim lights and from far away is not as meaningful as passing in the day light.

Your third example, numerous guys and girls wanting to pick you up. I am sure a good percentage of them don't clock you. But, there is also a percentage who is interested in trans girls. I have personally met trans-admirers in "normal places", at the grocery store, at a straight club. My trans friends would say "no, he can't be an admirer since you met him in a normal club". That can't be more wrong. Admirers go to normal places too. I met recently in a regular diner a man who then told me he clocked me and was an admirer and was disappointed when he found out I was post-op.

I envy you, though, that you are able to differentiate the clocking stares from other types of stares. To be honest with you, I can't.



I totally agree with

Compliments do not = Passing

Quote from: stephaniec on January 01, 2016, 08:43:50 PM
I think if some guy is checking you out completely maybe what you say he notices bigger hands than normal  ,
.

You think you've got problems. For my whole life women have been clocking me for the size of my feet. :D

Quote from: DawnOday on June 21, 2016, 03:44:58 PM
You think you've got problems. For my whole life women have been clocking me for the size of my feet. :D

People tend to believe that it is a single detail what clocks them. For instance, they think it's the big feet or big hands/ This is not the case. Imagine a genetic woman with huge hands or feet. Would she be clocked as a man? No, she would just be clocked as a woman with big hands. It is a combination of things what clocks and people can't put the finger on it. 

Lovie that was a joke of sorts. What I'm saying is people get stared at for a number of reasons and no one elses opinion matters if you are confident, that's the part I'm working on too. I'm usually the tallest person in the room also, and I have only seen one woman as tall as me in my lifetime and that was recently. So there are no illusions on passing on my part. I believe we are looking to blend. My friend Chris-Deee taught me that being confident is more than half the battle.

Quote from: DawnOday on June 21, 2016, 04:12:03 PM
Lovie that was a joke of sorts. What I'm saying is people get stared at for a number of reasons and no one elses opinion matters if you are confident, that's the part I'm working on too. I'm usually the tallest person in the room also, and I have only seen one woman as tall as me in my lifetime and that was recently. So there are no illusions on passing on my part. I believe we are looking to blend. My friend Chris-Deee taught me that being confident is more than half the battle.

In an ideal world, opinions shouldn't matter, however, in real life, you won't get a job in retail if you don't look the part, friends (even good people) will feel awkward being seen with you in public, and I can go on and on and on. Confidence is only a small part.