Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Could I please be provided with literature or experience on standards of policy or testimonials of transsexuals seeking treatment in the military, particularly the marine reserves?

I understand any estrogen therapy could become very apparent.

I'm already a personal fitness trainer, an avid practitioner of MMA and a power lifter.
Seeing as I'm already enlisted, I was hoping that after I got out of training I could get away with anti-androgens through a professional not associated with the military.  I don't know if the insurance provided by the military would cover that.
I already meet well beyond perfect PFT on crunches and pullups which are the only two things that could suffer from decreased muscle tone, so focusing on just maintaining those shouldn't be too difficult.  Along with simply running, pullups, pushups and crunches I imagine I should be able to get by without much of an issue in PFT.  Hopefully I'd be able to lose the majority of my build(I put it all on in the past 2 years) and go back to being well, toned again.  I'm intending to continue working out my legs, seeing as I don't see how that could be detrimental to my figure in any way and I'm trying to pass as being more androgynous, as I have been most of my life, until I can fully transition.

I have a history of HRT already, when I was 13 I went on full HRT, Est, AA, and Pro.  I stayed on until I was forced off by my parents at 15.
While on it I noticed an astounding increase in metabolism and libido which are in contrast to what I was told to expect.  Everything else stayed the same.

I would be transitioning presently, were it not that I'm already enlisted into the delayed entree program(DEP) and that if I don't leave as scheduled for training, I won't have a place to live.  After training, I'll have more financial stability and can do a few more semesters of tech school, transfer to a university and complete my bachelor's degree over there whilst serving out my time in the reserves and setting the stage for an easy, effortless transition.  I should also note that I'm already planning on getting my name changed before I go in hopefully, to something that I could get by with.  That way, I can keep my military record on any future applications and also have my college degree have my name on it without having to go through a ton of crap to get stuff switched or explained.

Any and all advice on this would be helpful.  It's somewhat pheasible that I could not join the military, but then I would have a dishonerable discharge(I think) on my record.  I can't ask my recruiter about this topic directly, and I don't have many supportive friends.  Perhaps one of you could call up a recruiter and request what would happen if a poolie asked to be dropped from the DEP program.
I also still have 9/11 fresh in my mind.  It's always fresh in my mind.  I have to do something.  That's why I didn't fight it to start with when I was taken off the hormones, because I thought that I might as well take the opportunity as a guy to get this out of my system.

  The use of HRT meds in the military is flirting with a discharge.  While physically you could still pass your PT exams without much difficulty assuming you can pass them now.  However...a legal HRT regimen would very likely create physical characteristics not normally associated with a male.  If you are talking about just taking an anti-androgen and not estrogen it's possible I suppose, however, the military insurance will definately not cover it unless it were prescribed for another reason.  Under "Don't ask, Don't tell" you would be discharged without question should it become known.

  If you want out right now I would go to your recruiter and explain your situation and you may qualify for "ELS" or Entry Level Seperation.  It's not an honorable or a dishonorable discharge...it basically means you've been absolved of your contract.  I think you need to decide which one you want more at this point in your life, serving in the military or beginning transition because the two are going to be extremely difficult together.

Quote from: BrandiOK on October 02, 2007, 01:06:39 PM
  The use of HRT meds in the military is flirting with a discharge.  While physically you could still pass your PT exams without much difficulty assuming you can pass them now.  However...a legal HRT regimen would very likely create physical characteristics not normally associated with a male.  If you are talking about just taking an anti-androgen and not estrogen it's possible I suppose, however, the military insurance will definately not cover it unless it were prescribed for another reason.  Under "Don't ask, Don't tell" you would be discharged without question should it become known.

What sort of effects are you talking about?
Surely I wouldn't be suspected because of not having much muscle?
I mean, if I'm still scoring perfect PFTs whilst most aren't, how could I be discovered?
As far as insurance, could it be prescribed as a hair loss treatment by a sympathetic family doctor?

QuoteIf you want out right now I would go to your recruiter and explain your situation and you may qualify for "ELS" or Entry Level Seperation.  It's not an honorable or a dishonorable discharge...it basically means you've been absolved of your contract.  I think you need to decide which one you want more at this point in your life, serving in the military or beginning transition because the two are going to be extremely difficult together.

I doubt I could get an ELS from my recruiter.
And also, how do you think I could seperate and manage myself financially?  I don't think I could.  As far as I know, working full time at $7/hour isn't enough to cover the bills.

Well, if the military is more important to you right now, then go in and do it. If you are worried about going on HRT and being in the military and any possible complications, then just don't take HRT. It's ultimately up to you on what you decide; you are responsible for yourself.

No offense but being TS is the same as being gay if not worse in the US military and HRT has MAJOR effects on the body.  It is impossible to hide the changes over time. 

you wont stay perfect long on AAs, TRUST ME. you could survive sure, but it would knock you down a bit, and soon become obvious, within the year. If i was in your boat, id suffer OUT of the militery, than go INTO it at this point. IT IS NOT THE PLACE FOR A TRANS PERSON at this present time. if your outed, you had better know kung bloody fu... and thats not even official stuff yet. its a NASTY place...
R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on October 04, 2007, 02:26:45 AM
you wont stay perfect long on AAs, TRUST ME. you could survive sure, but it would knock you down a bit, and soon become obvious, within the year.

Why is that?
When I was on full fledged hormone therapy at 14 I never worked out at all but could still pop out 10 pullups at any given time(school PT).
How would it become obvious?
There's plenty of marines I know now that severaly lack muscle tone and get by with just the basics, they don't devote any extra time to PT except what they're ordered to.
And I know plenty of marines, seeing as I live a mile away from the entrance to Parris Island.

I'm not challenging, I'm gathering information, so don't get all, "well just do whatever you wanna do cuz you don't want help."

Because estrogen decreases muscle.  Additionally AA have a significant effect on your heart rate.  I could go on and on, but if you think you will not be noticed on HRT you are mistaken, you will look very female within 6-9 months if not less considering your age.
Then there is the whole BREAST issue.  You will develop them and they will be hard to hide.  HRT has major effects, and as much as you think you can maintain ambiguity, its a mistake.  They will figure it out in time. 

As it was said, the military, ESPECIALLY the marines is not a friendly place for a trans person.  You are coming off as very naive. 

Then there is the whole fact that you will probably be sent to a dangerous war of choice (Iraq had NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING to do with 9/11) if you do not take them.

If anything being trans is now a way OUT of the military. 

its not tone, its muscle itself, why did you start and stop hrt at 14?
anyway, hrt gives you the musculature of a female, so if a girl can hack what you want to do, fine, but i seriously discurage it, you will look less masculine, the point of hrt? and marines arnt the huggy crying, share around a mug of cocoa types...
R :police:

As a military person myself I can tell you that dropping out of DEP will not give you any problems. The recruiter might wonder why but you don't have to explain too much. Since you haven't formally joined up then they can't do anything. They can't you a dishonorable discharge or anything since your not enlisted.

havent they told you to cut your hair yet?
because heres a suprise baby,  ITS BUZZ CUT TIME! reason i left :)
R :police:

Quote from: Amy T. on October 04, 2007, 09:33:30 AM
Because estrogen decreases muscle.  Additionally AA have a significant effect on your heart rate.  I could go on and on, but if you think you will not be noticed on HRT you are mistaken, you will look very female within 6-9 months if not less considering your age.

I already look very feminine.  I have since I was like, 4.  I can't get by without my pathetic facial hair because when I'm clean shaven and without a unibrow(which I deliberately keep) then I'm handed kids menus or called, "mam."
I'm not planning on estrogen treatment, just AA.
How does AA have an effect on my heart rate?
I already have pathetic cardiovascular performance(3 miles in 25:52) but I'm sure it will improve at bootcamp, running everyday and all.
If you know anything about this, if anyone does, please share.  I always see eye to eye when it concerns medical stuff.

QuoteThen there is the whole BREAST issue.  You will develop them and they will be hard to hide.

It's called the bench press.  It develops the fan-like muscle covering the chest known as the Pectoralis major.  Most marines have chests.  I have a chest, and I still ahve big nipples from previous estrogen therapy.  I highly doubt anyone could tell the difference between a muscular chest and a muscular chest with minimal breast development(it took a year for me to get into a C-cup with AA, Estr, AND Pro).
 

QuoteHRT has major effects, and as much as you think you can maintain ambiguity, its a mistake.  They will figure it out in time. 

Even if it's just one weekend out of the month?  :-(

QuoteYou are coming off as very naive. 

I am.
And if I don't ask these questions, who will?

QuoteIf anything being trans is now a way OUT of the military. 

haha, good idea:-P

Quote from: Rachael on October 04, 2007, 10:35:35 AM
marines arnt the huggy crying, share around a mug of cocoa types...
R :police:

Oh, sure they are! LOL This is what they really do when no one is looking, they gather around the campfire, eating chocolate and marshmallows and drinking cocoa, talking about how much they miss their girls, crying and letting it all out... and sharing deep felt concerns while hugging each other gently. Long, warm hugs.


Anyway, Kalt, people are worried that you're going to march off to a war with HRT and (as much as you think you'll have no effect), the HRT will affect you and people will notice and people can hurt you. If Hrt has no effect on you what-so-ever, then I'd be seeing a doctor about that.

HRT isn't a game. Being transsexual isn't a game. It's a dangerous world out there. Go read up on trans related murders. I don't think any one of us want you to be on that list and to be remembering you on Nov. 20 (Transgender day of Remembrance). We would all love to see you become the beautiful woman you are. And just because your trans, it doesn't mean you can't change the world -- and you don't need to be in the military to change the world and make a difference.

I want you to take a look at this list: http://www.gender.org/remember/about/core.html  I want you to look through and click the names. I want you to think really hard. I want you to feel with your heart. Go through that list. See what has happened to other people. Notice that there's not a lot of information, many with no investigation, and many with no picture. These are people who wanted to live, not be martyrs. Live for them, don't be another victim by blindly walking into a situation where you could become one.

Do me a favor, also go and rent the movie "Soldier's Girl." While your at it, I also recommend, "Boys Don't Cry."

Quote from: Rachael on October 04, 2007, 10:35:35 AM
its not tone, its muscle itself, why did you start and stop hrt at 14?

16.
My parents had me in a group home and had papers in front of them saying that I wouldn't be their kid anymore if they signed.  They would only let me come home if I got off the hormones.

Quoteanyway, hrt gives you the musculature of a female

Muscle is muscle.
All muscles on males and females originate in the same location and insert into the same location.
The difference is that females have less mass and more fat because a lacking of testosterone.  Even females though, can be as buff if not more buff than the average male without supplemental aid.

Quoteyou will look less masculine

I know^_^

Quotethe point of hrt?

To take preventative measures to decrease further masculinization.  To begin changing my body slowly, over time, so by the time I'm done with serving and the estrogen is then available to me, I would immediately be capable of beginning RLT and getting on full HRT with amazing effects.

Quotemarines arnt the huggy crying, share around a mug of cocoa types...

You'd be amazed...  From what I've observed, aside from navy corpsman, marines have the highest percentage of closet homosexuals.  And the navy corpsmen well, I'd estimate 1 out of 8 of the males is gay.

Posted on: October 04, 2007, 01:05:21 PM

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Quote from: Rachael on October 04, 2007, 11:38:20 AM
havent they told you to cut your hair yet?
because heres a suprise baby,  ITS BUZZ CUT TIME! reason i left :)
R :police:

I've already had my hair cut.
It's a nice buzz.
Wanna see?

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi12.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa227%2Fpixieluvsall%2FPIC_0017.jpg&hash=4793d7068562edb56e0670497fc4c879f5b461e3)

Posted on: October 04, 2007, 01:06:30 PM

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Quote from: Pysgod on October 04, 2007, 10:39:55 AM
As a military person myself I can tell you that dropping out of DEP will not give you any problems. The recruiter might wonder why but you don't have to explain too much. Since you haven't formally joined up then they can't do anything. They can't you a dishonorable discharge or anything since your not enlisted.

Well, what am I supposed to do about finances?
I mean, if I don't go then my parents would kick me out.
There's a slight possibility I could stay another 6 months, make good enough grades to transfer to a university, but I'd still be financially crippled.

I can't get my head around this one.........or understand it. Why would someone go into the military in the first place of they were TS?

Quote from: Berliegh on October 04, 2007, 06:42:56 PM
I can't get my head around this one.........or understand it. Why would someone go into the military in the first place of they were TS?

Just because someone has one dream, doesn't mean he/she can't have other dreams that potentially conflict too.
And finances.
I'm getting kicked out in december military or not.
What do you propose I do?  Drop out of college and go suck stuff on the streets?  :-(

Quote from: kalt on October 04, 2007, 07:11:54 PM

Quote from: Berliegh on October 04, 2007, 06:42:56 PM
I can't get my head around this one.........or understand it. Why would someone go into the military in the first place of they were TS?

Just because someone has one dream, doesn't mean he/she can't have other dreams that potentially conflict too.
And finances.
I'm getting kicked out in december military or not.
What do you propose I do?  Drop out of college and go suck stuff on the streets?  :-(

Get financial aid and a job to go to a university so you can complete college?

Quote from: shanetastic on October 04, 2007, 11:53:58 PM

Quote from: kalt on October 04, 2007, 07:11:54 PM


Just because someone has one dream, doesn't mean he/she can't have other dreams that potentially conflict too.

Get financial aid and a job to go to a university so you can complete college?

Exactly Educational Loans and grants, and work study and working while going to school.  It can be done, if you think you have to resort to prostitution you are mistaken.

Quote from: Berliegh on October 04, 2007, 06:42:56 PM
I can't get my head around this one.........or understand it. Why would someone go into the military in the first place of they were TS?

I feel the exact same way.  I personally cannot get it myself and never will. 

Quote from: kalt on October 04, 2007, 07:11:54 PM

Quote from: Berliegh on October 04, 2007, 06:42:56 PM
I can't get my head around this one.........or understand it. Why would someone go into the military in the first place of they were TS?

Just because someone has one dream, doesn't mean he/she can't have other dreams that potentially conflict too.
And finances.
I'm getting kicked out in december military or not.
What do you propose I do?  Drop out of college and go suck stuff on the streets?  :-(

So you want to be a man fighting as a soldier and then also take HRT.....I don't buy it.....you may not be TS at all but just merely confused?

Quote from: Berliegh on October 05, 2007, 05:50:13 AM
So you want to be a man fighting as a soldier and then also take HRT.....I don't buy it.....you may not be TS at all but just merely confused?

Oh come on, do I really come across as uneducated and unintelligent?
I'm well aware what I am, I'm well aware what a transsexual is, and I recognise and embrace the parallel.
I don't know.
I'm gonna go get my name changed in the next few months, and request my recruiter to shoot back my ship date towards feb-ish.  That way I'll have time to both evaluate how I do in school and piss him the ->-bleeped-<- off and he might drop me then and there.

QuoteOh come on, do I really come across as uneducated and unintelligent?

Yes very naive.

You can get a job, rent a room and finish college on grants and a loan. In the military you lose most your rights and I would not be surprised if you would end up in the brig, hurt or some other disastrous problem. Remember most of the people in Iraq are reserves.

Quote from: lisagurl on October 05, 2007, 11:09:11 AM

QuoteOh come on, do I really come across as uneducated and unintelligent?

Yes very naive.

You can get a job, rent a room and finish college on grants and a loan. In the military you lose most your rights and I would not be surprised if you would end up in the brig, hurt or some other disastrous problem. Remember most of the people in Iraq are reserves.

Phooey.
This is making me all very, very stressed out lately.
Fortune might look up for me though, my rents have declared bankruptcy and they're getting kicked out of the house.  I'm the only one who's credit isn't spoiled, so they might need me to get a new apartment term.  It'd be kinda hard to kick me out of a place which is being rented in my name...
I told me father if my mother's act didn't change soon(she's horrible), and he didn't divorce her, I'd go through with a full name change.
So, I guess I'll go do that soon:-)
Atleast then, I can go by that name so all my credits and job history can go under that name too.  Less hassle later.
Rawr.
Annwyn Sabriel Kalt sounds likea good name.
I can't tell you guys which order it's gonna be in, I think announcing real names is prohibited.

i might later,, but never again as a male.
R :police:

Well guys... I made my decision!

I can't call up and tell me recruiter I "quit," beacuse then he'll be in contact with my father and tell him what's up and I'll be kicked out promptly.

However, by mailing them letters telling them that I'm a psychological, homosexual ->-bleeped-<- mess unsuitable for the mariens and all, I'm sure I could get disqualified in no time.

Anyone up for the challenge?  PM me.  I've already got the addresses and the letter, so all that's to be done is pritn it out, write down the address in the center of the envelope, and put it in the mailbox.

Otherwise I'll be left to suffer a fate of... yucky manly underarm stench.  Or worse.

Now you shaved your head for nothing :P

Congrats on making a decision.

Quote from: shanetastic on October 05, 2007, 03:47:54 PM
Now you shaved your head for nothing :P

Congrats on making a decision.

Yeah.. you're right.
Actually, when I cut my hair I got a job:-P

I would never have gotten my dream job of being a personal trainer looking like a washed up hippy on steroids>.>

You will probably have to appeal your physical and go back with letters from a therapist. Nothing with the military is simple. It took me 4 years and over 1000 pieces of paper to get out of the draft with a 4F.  Lawyers, doctors, etc.

I called my recruiter.
I told him I had a history of hormone therapy that wasn't dialogued, in-patient mental history that's indialogued, and he's still very clear that he I'm fine and good to ship out>.>

Do whatever you feel you must. I for one, believe you can do a tour in the marines without a problem as long as you're not in the infantry. For the most part, being in the marines is just like having a regular job. There are going to be stupid head games along the way but as long as you can handle those, you'll do just fine. You just have to remember, it's their game and their rules.
They will not cover any type of hormone therapy including just anti androgens. If you insist on starting them, then I would recommend you wait until after basic training.
You can't hide anything there. You'll live in an open barracks with communal restrooms and showers. You do what they tell you when they tell you to do it. The drill instructors will try to break your spirit.
When I went through boot camp, we started the day lined up at the foot of our bunks in our underwear while the drill instructors went through making sure everything was as it should be. If your foot locker wasn't locked it would end up upside down in the middle of the room. If your bunk wasn't made to their satisfaction they would tip the whole thing over then have you do push ups for 40 minutes or until they got tired of watching. Then they give you 2 minutes to put it all right again. And don't leave a puddle of sweat on the floor.
If you can get through all their head games it's easy after that.
Good luck with whatever you decide.

All that aside, I made it through and believe just about anyone can if they can just play by the rules.

Karen Lyn
USMC - Semper Fidelis

did you say m2f hormone therapy? not just t boosters in puberty? and its not just a history, you want to take MORE m2f hrt WHILE serving.
US MILITERY DOESNT LIKE TRANS PEOPLE
wanting to join, and being in the militery are two different things, as i and every other person who has been in will tell you, it sucks...
R :police:

Quote from: kalt on October 05, 2007, 03:49:29 PM

Quote from: shanetastic on October 05, 2007, 03:47:54 PM
Now you shaved your head for nothing :P

Congrats on making a decision.

Yeah.. you're right.
Actually, when I cut my hair I got a job:-P

I would never have gotten my dream job of being a personal trainer looking like a washed up hippy on steroids>.>

I thought the idea of a Male to Female transition was just that.......but you got a job as a man not a woman..

Maybe you should be posting in another section? most people in this section of the forum are sure of their sexual identity and where they are heading.......you clearly are not.......you can't live two lives if you want to be transsexual..

Quote from: Rachael on October 07, 2007, 02:39:19 AM
did you say m2f hormone therapy? not just t boosters in puberty? and its not just a history, you want to take MORE m2f hrt WHILE serving.
US MILITERY DOESNT LIKE TRANS PEOPLE
wanting to join, and being in the militery are two different things, as i and every other person who has been in will tell you, it sucks...
R :police:

I said, "I was on feminizing hormone therapy in my younger teens to become female, ya know?  The whole friggin dangum transsexual deal?"

He says, "oh don't worry about it.  I'm sure you'll be just fine."

It's obvious he's never encountered it or he's full of it.
It's also obvious he isn't ready to let me go.

Posted on: October 07, 2007, 10:43:53 AM

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Quote from: Berliegh on October 07, 2007, 06:03:37 AM
I thought the idea of a Male to Female transition was just that.......but you got a job as a man not a woman..

Maybe you should be posting in another section? most people in this section of the forum are sure of their sexual identity and where they are heading.......you clearly are not.......you can't live two lives if you want to be transsexual..

Please stop with comments like these as they're highly offensive.  You haven't been put in mental hospitals by your parents simply because you got on HRT.  You haven't walked in my shoes, so you don't know how hard, how painful, how much of a struggle this has been for me, such as my entire highschool district knowing who I was, where I lived, and everything about me that I didn't want anyone to know.

I'm used to living in the spotlight by now Berleigh.  Ever since I was a little kid I've been mistaken for female.  I am not scared of transitioning in plain daylight anymore, because I'm not going to live my life lying about who I am, and Im' not going to betray all the people I know and who count on me by just dissapearing.  I will not live with a guilty conscious, I will not live hiding it.  When there's nothing to hide anymore(after the surgery), then I'll have things to consider.  I'm not going to go advertizing it, in fact I'm planning to move to the near city in Columbia(where I lived a year ago, before coming to beaufort) in just a year at a university where I'll be continuing my transition, probably at this stage more as an androgynous individual before I hit up being fulltime female.

I am who I am and I'm not ashamed of it, and therefore I will not hide it.

I know exactly who I am.  You don't.  Don't you dare judge me.

You do of course realize that in the reserves, you will stand a good chance of being deployed to Iraq or anywhere else?  While on deployment it will be very hard to get HRT.

sorry, but which bit of you is constantly mistaken for a girl? you showed us a crew cutted pumped up young man photo?
R :police:

QuoteIt's obvious he's never encountered it or he's full of it.
It's also obvious he isn't ready to let me go.

Once you signed those papers the recruiter got a point toward his goal and he will not give it back. You seriously need a lawyer familiar with military law and start to fight your recruitment. The other option is forget transition and play the game.

Quote from: Rachael on October 07, 2007, 10:46:35 AM
sorry, but which bit of you is constantly mistaken for a girl? you showed us a crew cutted pumped up young man photo?
R :police:

....point well made Rachel........I don't know how the mistake could be made?

Quote from: Berliegh on October 07, 2007, 12:33:59 PM

Quote from: Rachael on October 07, 2007, 10:46:35 AM
sorry, but which bit of you is constantly mistaken for a girl? you showed us a crew cutted pumped up young man photo?
R :police:

....point well made Rachel........I don't know how the mistake could be made?

Well, with clothes on and longer hair it would be easier right? Also, looks isn't everything. If you behave girlish people will think you are a girl from time to time no matter how you look. A lot of real girls don't look anything like a girl :)

Quote from: ketti on October 07, 2007, 02:41:06 PM

Quote from: Berliegh on October 07, 2007, 12:33:59 PM

Quote from: Rachael on October 07, 2007, 10:46:35 AM
sorry, but which bit of you is constantly mistaken for a girl? you showed us a crew cutted pumped up young man photo?
R :police:

....point well made Rachel........I don't know how the mistake could be made?

Well, with clothes on and longer hair it would be easier right? Also, looks isn't everything. If you behave girlish people will think you are a girl from time to time no matter how you look. A lot of real girls don't look anything like a girl :)

What a lot of nonsense...

Quote from: Berliegh on October 07, 2007, 02:52:09 PM
What a lot of nonsense...

Hehe, if you say so ^^
Notice i said behaviour will make people think you are a girl from time to time. Well, maybe that wouldn't happen adult males. But in kalts case those being-mistaken-for-a-girl-occasions probably all happened during early and mid teenage. Also i don't think the rest i said was nonsense either. But i respect if you think everything i say is nonsense. If you elaborate why i would probably agree with you too :)

Out of curiosity, why the need to bash kalt so much.  He (is it okay if i say that kalt?) has made decisions in his life just like all you have.  Sure it's understandable that sometimes we regret our actions, which I'm certain all of you can vouch for, but to me it seems like everyone is sort of ganging up and just trying to scare him away.

If he's certain of what he wants to do and he shares his choices with us, isn't it more nice and more appropriate to just share some non bias'd views and advice for him.  I'm not really here to try to challenge what he says he does and does not do in his life, because it's not mine.  If I can give some advice though or help him out in any way, although; I will. 

I'm sorry if he hasn't been on HRT for as long as you all, but I think he's just here for some help in moving his life the way he wants it to. 

Quote from: ketti on October 07, 2007, 02:41:06 PM

Quote from: Berliegh on October 07, 2007, 12:33:59 PM

Quote from: Rachael on October 07, 2007, 10:46:35 AM
sorry, but which bit of you is constantly mistaken for a girl? you showed us a crew cutted pumped up young man photo?
R :police:

....point well made Rachel........I don't know how the mistake could be made?

Well, with clothes on and longer hair it would be easier right? Also, looks isn't everything. If you behave girlish people will think you are a girl from time to time no matter how you look. A lot of real girls don't look anything like a girl :)

um, no, with clothes on, they would look like a muscled man with clothes on, and  just behaving girlish nomatter how you look? no, you just look like a camp man...
R :police:

Quote from: shanetastic on October 07, 2007, 04:02:44 PM
Out of curiosity, why the need to bash kalt so much.  He (is it okay if i say that kalt?) has made decisions in his life just like all you have.  Sure it's understandable that sometimes we regret our actions, which I'm certain all of you can vouch for, but to me it seems like everyone is sort of ganging up and just trying to scare him away.

It's all the pent up stress they're keeping inside of self-dissatisfaction.
And the parroting that usually happens on online forums specific to one social group.  (bodybuilding.com, swim.com, t-nation.com, crossfit.com, etc...)

disatisfaction? im fairly happy actually :)
im sure kalt will love the marines when they join and are beaten to a pulp for being ts when it comes out, and thats likely.
R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on October 07, 2007, 05:44:58 PM
disatisfaction? im fairly happy actually :)
im sure kalt will love the marines when they join and are beaten to a pulp for being ts when it comes out, and thats likely.
R :police:

I'm grateful to see that the frequent users of these forums are still about their supportive, accepting ways and making sure everyone feels welcome and at home.

Kalt, being supportive isnt just pandering to every members whim and desire. Sometimes it involves giving someone a 50cc shot of reality followed by compressions and maybe shocking them...
there is no right way to transition
but there are many wrong ones, this is one of those... you seem confused, unsure of where you want to go, and do with your life, let me tell you something, i was FORCED, into the militery reserve in the uk for a year at uni by my parents to 'make a man of me' i quit and transitioned that year, it caused me to attemt suicide twice, and i dont talk about that often, but the environment, and attitudes were so detremental to my mental wellbeing, it drove me to strange things, You claim to be a male to female transexual, now thats all i can say, i cant say you are one, not every man that comes along claiming to be a woman is really suffering gid, but you need to look at yourself, and your priorities, and your life, before telling us were insensitive and uncaring.
R :police:

To be fair to Kalt (and not to digress too much from the real topic), doing stuff like joining the military, bodybuilding and the like are pretty common amoungst M2Fs who are trying to "make a man" of themselves to escape the GID. Take a peek at Donna Rose's story and her interests in wrestling and sculpting her (male at the time) body. Even Donna was *proud* of the incredible male physique she created.

Now, I'll admit I can't relate aside from wanting to look lean and healthy (though female), but that doesn't mean Kalt's motivations aren't clear and appropriate to HER.

As for the military, it's gonna be rough for ya hon. Female breasts don't look like male chest muscles... you're not going to be able to hide them for along. Showering with everyone will become a nightmare. And as others said, if you're shipped out, just getting the drugs might be very difficult.

~Kate~

Quote from: Kate on October 08, 2007, 09:08:53 AM
To be fair to Kalt (and not to digress too much from the real topic), doing stuff like joining the military, bodybuilding and the like are pretty common amoungst M2Fs who are trying to "make a man" of themselves to escape the GID. Take a peek at Donna Rose's story and her interests in wrestling and sculpting her (male at the time) body. Even Donna was *proud* of the incredible male physique she created.

Now, I'll admit I can't relate aside from wanting to look lean and healthy (though female), but that doesn't mean Kalt's motivations aren't clear and appropriate to HER.

As for the military, it's gonna be rough for ya hon. Female breasts don't look like male chest muscles... you're not going to be able to hide them for along. Showering with everyone will become a nightmare. And as others said, if you're shipped out, just getting the drugs might be very difficult.

~Kate~

I don't think the military thing is going to go through.  I told my recruiter and it's only a matter of time till his NCOIC calls me up and says, "wtf?"
As far as working out to escape GID, that's not the case at all.
The point is, to make the best of what you've got, always.  Not many of the older people on here can make sense of that, they're blinded by one goal and one ambition only.  I make the best of what I've got whilst keeping my goal solid.  Sometimes you get a bit lost along the way, but it's better than living as a highly depressed, overly obsessed gender dysphoric individual.

Quote from: kalt on October 08, 2007, 09:32:07 AM
The point is, to make the best of what you've got, always.  Not many of the older people on here can make sense of that, they're blinded by one goal and one ambition only.  I make the best of what I've got whilst keeping my goal solid.  Sometimes you get a bit lost along the way, but it's better than living as a highly depressed, overly obsessed gender dysphoric individual.

Nah, I can relate. That's why I got married and TRIED to carve out some sort of happy life within the means (and knowledge) I had at the time. I didn't kill myself, I didn't just sit around and sulk about my GID misfortune. No, I did what I could to be happy, and to find SOME way of being female (in spirit) *within* a male life.

But I sure smelled the roses along the way, and enjoyed the fortunes I was graced with.

~Kate~

QuoteI told my recruiter and it's only a matter of time till his NCOIC calls me up and says, "wtf?"

That is not going to happen. They need bodies badly and are even lowering the standards. Unless you intervene with legal help you can count on being shipped off.

Quote from: lisagurl on October 08, 2007, 11:24:44 AM

QuoteI told my recruiter and it's only a matter of time till his NCOIC calls me up and says, "wtf?"

That is not going to happen. They need bodies badly and are even lowering the standards. Unless you intervene with legal help you can count on being shipped off.

Oh well.
If that happens then, I'll have about a year of training, then reserve time and college.
By the time it's all over, I'll be well on my way through HRT and by the time I'm out, I'll have insurance coverage that can make the entire journey much easier.
Either way, I don't care anymore.  Too much stupid stuff going on right now, I'll fight it but I won't hate it if it happens.

I cannot relate to any of this........

QuoteI'll have about a year of training, then reserve time and college.

Iraq or Afghanistan?

This is a journal entry I wrote recently.  I think it pretty much sums up what I've been saying in this thread.  Maybe it will help you guys understand where I'm coming from better.

I signed up into the marines.  I have to complete one more semester of college before I can go in though, because of my GED, so that puts me on the DEP thingy.

The problem is, is that I was thinking that if I went into the reserves, I could manage to get on hormone therapy again whilst in the reserves and hide it.  After talking with some friends on an online forum devoted specifically to and for transsexuals like myself, I discovered it wouldn't be anything like what I thought at all.

I really need some help figuring out what to do.  Right now, a small part of me wants to move on and go marines, but a bigger part of me is crying out to just stay in college and work my way through while pursuing hormone therapy, getting out with a good paying job and getting surgery ultimately.

The pros of going in the marines would be finances.  I mean, I'd get a bit more money, it's slightly conceivable that I could pursue hormnoe therapy but if I were caught the results could be very bad.  I'd also be attending college as just a regular guy then, and not who I really feel like I am, thus I would be missing out on the valuable social experiences in college.  I know the marines would be excellent for character building and all that yadeyada stuff, put the, "backbone," in me.  But do I really want that militaristic attitude?  And, is it worth sacrificing valuable time in my life that I really feel I could be putting to better use?
The pros of me not going would be that I could continue with my education immediately, work some more hours and get the cash to go on therapy within 3 or 4 months, be transfered to a university within a year and be transitioned much sooner too.  That would mean I could actually enjoy the friendships I make and not have to hide anything.

The problem in my way is that the recruiter is putting a ton of stress on me.  I told him that I didn't mention the hormone therapy, the transsexualism, the mental hospitals, or the suicide attempts on my application into the marines and he is telling me that I shouldn't worry, I'll be just fine.  I've tried to find every method I can of getting out without directly asking him, but nothing seems to work.  Lately there have been al ot of lawsuits and such because people are trying to get out of service, particularly younger guys like me who change their minds.  I don't know what will happen if I straight up ask, "please let me out now," but I can't get the courage up to ask it.  It seems like the most jackass, rude thing for me to ask for after they've worked amazingly hard(yes, very, very hard) to get me in.  I just can't shake it.  I want to be female, I want to continue the journey I started so long ago.  I have to do it now or later.

On top of this, my parents are trying to divorce, my mother's still being a neglectful bitch to my brothers who are both diagnosed now as autistic and are attending intervention programs.  I'm smoking again to help cope with the stress.

I'm just freaking out.  I'm torn between a want to do what's right for my country and do what's right for myself.  Is doing what I want to do really such a bad thing?

my friend just got kicked out of the navy. . .  He just failed the drug test :P  Ever think about that?  I know it's horrible but it could be a resort

QuoteI'm torn between a want to do what's right for my country and do what's right for myself

The leadership is not doing what is right for the country or the population of the world. Why have guilt about not serving in a volunteer army. This country hires just as many mercenaries with Blackwater at a lot higher pay. The best thing you can do for your country is vote intelligently.

P.S. Take a few courses in political science and start with the Greeks.

Have your gone to MEPS and raised your right hand and signed your contract at MEPS?

I only ask as someone who has gone through the transistion from National Guard to Active Duty and to Reserves in the past.

Posted on: October 08, 2007, 05:15:47 PM

---

Quote from: lisagurl on October 08, 2007, 04:55:48 PM

QuoteI'm torn between a want to do what's right for my country and do what's right for myself

The leadership is not doing what is right for the country or the population of the world. Why have guilt about not serving in a volunteer army. This country hires just as many mercenaries with Blackwater at a lot higher pay. The best thing you can do for your country is vote intelligently.

P.S. Take a few courses in political science and start with the Greeks.

You do of course realize that these blackwater employees have around 15-20 years military experience in the special ops right?  Thats why they make good pay.  They are very good at what they do.

QuoteYou do of course realize that these blackwater employees have around 15-20 years military experience in the special ops right?  Thats why they make good pay.  They are very good at what they do.

That is not the point. When a country has to hire military to fight their wars they no longer have the support of the citizens. All civilizations that hired their defense or out sourced it  have failed. The poor end up fighting the rich mans battle. They do not fight for ideals, rather they do it for money.

QuoteAll that aside, I made it through and believe just about anyone can if they can just play by the rules.

Karen Lyn
USMC - Semper Fidelis

I have much respect for the Corps.  I served in the Coast Guard when they had a 14-week basic training.  I had no idea of what to expect.  I figured that they wouldn't do anything to kill me because of the paperwork involved, so I left my mind elsewhere and did as I was ordered.

Boot camp had its white tornadoes, sea bag inspections, midnight marches into the ocean with a full sea bag and your piece, in dress blues, lots of yelling, cursing, and less-than-pleasant times.  Most of us who joined survived basic and earned our benefits.

In basic, not only is the shower communal, there are no partitions between toilets.  Everyone works together as a cohesive company so individualism is expressed elsewhere.  There is also a form of basic justice within the members of the company in training.  Everyone pulls their own weight and at times pulls a flagging member along, however, it don't work like that every day for 12 or 14 weeks.

This might not be a good time in history to believe that you'll just be allowed to go quietly into the night, Kalt.  Given that I have no idea of all that took place during your recruitment, I would not be surprised if the recruiter came to your residence to give you a ride to the recruiting and induction center.  There is also the possibility that a U.S. Marshall or two might pay a call.  That's how it was in the "old days" of the 1960s.  Others have told you that the standards for recruiting have been lowered and you seem to have qualified.  I agree with Karen Lyn, that anyone can make it through basic if they play by the rules.

For Karen Lyn:  Atten-hut!!!  Hand saluute!  Two!

Wing Walker
Semper Paratus

Well I a glad I never had to serve for the military. They weren't recruiting in Canada during the Vietnam war and I was living in New york at the time in a Hippy commune, "as a girl" Yep in my Mid teens I had hair to my butt, I did look much like a girl and when I got the opportunity to live in a commune I jumped for it, and certainly never put up an argument to the contrary of their believing I was a girl. I seen some of the guys coming back from that war, old, tiered and gaunt looking and their brains somewhat rattled, and that was the lucky ones that made it back and still attached to all their limbs.

I did try to join the military when I got back home from New york but I only spent two weeks in recruiting, climbing under the fence and going across the road to buy beer out of the beer machine in front of the Old Folks home. I got kicked out because I was to small. Ge how did I hate being a runt back then. I moved to the res after some years wondering around. I made a friend who I became good friends with, his name was Robert, a Vietnam vet. He drank himself to death cirrhosis of the liver. He died while I held him in my arms.

Cindy



     

And I thought I was good at getting myself in troubble.....

KK, a current diagnosis of GID that hasnt been recended is means for both disqualification for military service in ALL branches of the military and means for instant dissmissal should it be discovered.....

You were considering AAs only while in the reserves...  thing is the physical effects of the AA's would show up in your physicals... you testicles would shrink... and possably other things too... breast tissue would increase even with out takeing E <you body does produce some> and most AA's are heart medication which alter your blood pressure among many other things...  no way to hide it....

Now for the really bad news...  You went through the whole process of inlisting and falsified information on government documents...  Id seriously consider getting a lawyers help inorder to get out of it with out the military wringing you dry...

KK, finaly, if your getting kicked out of your parrents <been there done that>  Get a cheap appartment, or find a friend to rent a room from or something...  In most populated <urban> areas there are jobs available that you can work around your school schedual...  I know how hard it is to survive with just the most basic of an "education" It dosnt matter how good you are, or what you know, its all about the level written on that stupid piece of paper you hold... So get that paper with the highst level possable... Ittle help allot.

Ive been in the psych center twice. Ive been kicked out of my parrents and been disowned by most of my family.  Really the military is not an option for us... even if were not specificly banned from the milatary they can allways find a way to get rid of you the moment they find out. Play it safe and find a decent job, finish school, and be who you are.  GID can make you one big tough mean SOB,but do you really want to spend all the years necicary to undo that kind of damage?

Reguardless of what you do, be safe, make informed desicions, and most of all be true to yourself...

Good luck

I think it's over.
A friend of mine from math class happens to be one of the badmouthing drill instructors off the island.
He managed to get what was up out of me and told me that I should do what was best for me.
He kind of forced me to call my recruiter then and there.
God, I wish he wasn't married>.>

But anyways.
I go on friday for a discharge interview.  I talk to a Major and sign some papers.

I'm setting up an appointment with a Dr. Erhardt in Georgia sometime in November, unless I can make it sooner by some financial miracle.  I'm covered on Bluecross Blue Shield and I know they're picky about psychological coverage, so I'm probably going to pay out of pocket.  Hopefully, the bloodwork and hormoens won't be.

If any of you have reccomendations for someone closer to Beaufort, South Carolina and who's got a good reputation, by all means, share.


I can't shake the feeling like I've done something really wrong.  I feel as if I've betrayed someone, something.  I feel an amazing relief though, an anticipation of the future that's coming at me like a tidal wave.  All it takes is simply a choice, and my whole life is turning upside down.

I'm going to be cutting.  By that, I mean I'm going to be dropping weight, as much as I can.  Eliptical machines are your friends:)

Has anyone here suffered with a really bad case of the Id. Like it's kind of sneaky like, sneaks up behind you and  "Wham!" it hits you and then you get this urge to go bug somebody.  ;D

From the mischievous inner child

Cindy

Ok you may now resume the regular broadcast. ;D

Quote from: cindybc on October 08, 2007, 10:52:13 PM
Has anyone here suffered with a really bad case of the Id. Like it's kind of sneaky like, sneaks up behind you and  "Wham!" it hits you and then you get this urge to go bug somebody.  ;D

From the mischievous inner child

Cindy

Ok you may now resume the regular broadcast. ;D

Woman, go train your Superego to CONTROL your Id.
Seriously.  Noone wants your hugs.  Bad hugs.  Cooties.

:o

Hey kalt, not sure if it has been mentioned but having been in kinda the same boat you were I thought i'd pass something on. Your HRT will show up on a drug test. I asked my petty officer (prior navy) when I was trying to make sense of this. He told me that yes the HRT will show up. it wouldn't for a civilian drug test but apparently in the military they test for everything. Its one of the reasons I had to wait longer to get out because if they find your HRT its a dishonorable.

Then again, this was Navy and full time enlisted, not the reserves. I've also been told (military legal defense network, check em out) that there have been a few cases of reserve military personnel being able to transition, however I know nothing about those cases. Also, one of my friends who was prior air force says that depending how you tell a psych tech depends on maybe an honorable with your benefits...if you avoid saying its a prior existing condition. How you do that I don't know but apparently GID could in theory be blamed on the military. Again, I could be wrong.

I hope this helps at least so you don't get in trouble.

QuoteI think it's over.
A friend of mine from math class happens to be one of the badmouthing drill instructors off the island.
He managed to get what was up out of me and told me that I should do what was best for me.
He kind of forced me to call my recruiter then and there.
God, I wish he wasn't married>.>

But anyways.
I go on friday for a discharge interview.  I talk to a Major and sign some papers.

It was good that you had so many people available to talk with you today as it is a government holiday, the observance of Columbus Day.

Wow, that's some kind of influence, to get the right people on a government holiday, and get an appointment for a discharge interview on Friday.  Discharged without ever serving, not so much as the medical and mental screening in basic.  That's pretty good, too.  Maybe you can copyright your system and sell it to others who need it.

Been there, earned my stripes,

Wing Walker

Quote from: kalt on October 08, 2007, 10:48:44 PM
I can't shake the feeling like I've done something really wrong.  I feel as if I've betrayed someone, something.

You have, of course: in a sense, your parents who wanted you to enlist, and in some ways also the USMC who recruited you in good faith. On the other hand, though, the other option would have meant betraying yourself, and in a more real sense the USMC. Either way, there would be bad feelings and some sense of betrayal, but from the sound of it there's no doubt you made the right choice.

Hope it works out.

  Nfr

hey kalt, I think it's a good idea that your getting out of the military.- I'm not going to bash or attack you for taking HRT because you are getting out of the military, if you were staying I would think your foolish. The military is tough and if your full of estrogen you better pray you'll live because military training isn't suitable for the majority of women. Not to mention people will notice your breasts, you will get emotional(if you cry you will be looked down upon).

To be honest (I don't want to hurt your feelings) You look like a male BUT a little feminime. Your jawline gives it all away- but you have feminime lips, eyes, skin tone etc. Your shoulder is very huge and broad looking in the pic. You look VERY built and muscular. you mentioned that you lift wieghts- they increase T even in women!-that's correct!

honestly you look intimidating to me strenght wise.

If you want your hrt to be more effective I suggest you start a cardio workout and yoga.- this will help your transition enormously- increasing blood flow means better absorbtion of hormones.

Quote from: Tanya1 on October 10, 2007, 07:18:15 PM
honestly you look intimidating to me strenght wise.

I am.  Proud of it but ashamed of how it makes me look.  It's my anti drug.  Lifting weights isn't as hard as cardio.

QuoteIf you want your hrt to be more effective I suggest you start a cardio workout and yoga.- this will help your transition enormously- increasing blood flow means better absorbtion of hormones.

That's what I'm doing now.
I'm already certified as a yoga instructor, super flexible.
And all I'm doing is cardio, legs and chest now.  No more shoulders, arms, torso, back, lats, anything!
Just chest, so as to stretch the skin out as much as possible so that possibly(by my theory) when the boobs start coming then they'll have it better off.
And I believe that keeping my thighs, if not making them larger and larger calves, will help balance out the lower body to the upper body.  It already does, in fact.
That, combined with a very low fat low carb diet and tons of cardio(twice a day at times) should drop me down.  3 months into HRT I intend to start increasing my fat intake(olive oil is your friend) and splurging for two weeks, every two months.
Maybe we'll all be surprised to see old-school bodybuilding techniques work on feminization;-)

Posted on: October 10, 2007, 09:34:04 PM

---

So, the update is that I'm discharged.

Got up this morning and headed to Columbia w/ pops.  He was talking about how much of a shame it was that I was being discharged(he didn't know the whole deal) and how much he wanted this to work for me.
I waited forever to talk to the Major.
He was pretty much an over critical jackhole, but I guess that's his job.
"Do you know why you're here?"
"I was sent here to be discharged sir."
"You just think it's that easy to get out of the Marines?"
"According to the information on the Marine website, designed by Marines, it is."
"That's a lot of bs.  Why do you want out?"
"I don't think the Marines fit me."
"What do you mean?"
"I just don't think that I have enough control in my life with the Marines."
And so it went on...
Blah.
Eventually it got down to the point, I took a deep breath and explained what was up.  He interrogated me further, and further, and further, asking if I was just saying that to get out, and finally discharged me for admittance to something(not sure if it was transsexualism or mental conditions or homosexual tendencies, conduct unbecoming, whatver).

Point being, it's over.
Now I just need to find a flippin therapist.
+not fail college^_^

Thanks for all the support peoples.

A moderator will hopefully read this and delete this thread.