Susan's Place Transgender Resources

The Lure of Stealth

By Suzi Chase, 1/17/2016

https://www.susans.org/2016/01/17/the-lure-of-stealth/

At first glance, the stealth lifestyle is enticing.  Trying to date as a post-op transgender woman has frustrated me, and being seen simply as a woman has a powerful allure.

Stealth, as I'm defining it, is a life where no one knows I've transitioned or those few who do are committed to keeping that secret.

It would change dating. I wouldn't have "transgender" on my dating profile, so cisgender straight men and lesbian women would see me romantically as a full-fledged member of my gender. I'd have the same chance as any other woman of my age and attractiveness, without the extra burden of being seen as not completely female. I wouldn't face the often insurmountable obstacle of convincing people I've never met that I'd make as good a girlfriend as a cisgender woman.

I admire those who live openly.

I'm kind of stealth, in that I'm continuing to live male when I should have socially transitioned already. I don't like the hiding and fear of being outed, and its getting more oppressive as the years go by. I'd hate to socially transition and end up doing the same thing again.

I don't think its ethically right to lie to your partner. I can understand why people do, but you're basically pushing your problems onto them. I can't imagine being capable of doing that myself.

Passing has definitely been a blessing for me.  It's nice to just go to the mall or anywhere and just be another girl in the crowd. 

to e it just doesn't matter if you want to live stealth it's no ones business. If no one seems to question you even though it's non of their business I just go with the flow. People seem to be taking me as a woman lately  and I have no need to interrupted them to tell them there is a qualifier. To me it's a need to know bases. a future partner is the only one for me that needs to know.

Living within the woodwork (stealth) has issues that, I assume, those who are openly transgendered don't deal with. As a dedicated woodworker, I have to be careful how much of my past I reveal so as to not be caught in a lie. Example: I smile and nod when a friend talks about how difficult childbirth was for her.

There are also inestimable rewards. Within my circle of friends I'm just one of the girls. No one second guesses me. I'm in a lesbian relationship (she's cis, we met in the AOL TG chatroom) that's lasted 20 years, so I don't have to worry about dating; my condolences to those of you who do.

My question would be, when you lay in bed at night, imagining your future, do you want to be transgendered, or do you want to be accepted as the gender you wish? There's nothing wrong with wanting to be seen as transgendered (thank you from the bottom of my heart), but I think most of us just want to live our lives as a socially accepted gender, man or woman. I didn't write society's rules, but I do try to live within them.

Well, there's stealth and then there's stealth. I couldn't be stealth to a lover, but I keep silent about my past when I make new acquaintances.

I work at one school where many of my colleagues know because I started my transition while working there. But the people who have known me since grad school have also known about my gender identity from the beginning, so maybe that's why nobody seemed to find my situation particularly gossip-worthy. That, and they're a good bunch of people. Anyway, a few years have passed since I started looking unmistakably male. If there was any drama, I never saw it, and it has long since passed.

I understand that this information could leak out to an uninformed colleague or a student. I doubt that such a colleague would even mention my status or ask me questions about it. I don't know whether a student would; my students are young and may lack certain social finesse, and their generation tends to be less private than mine. But I'm prepared to be matter-of-fact about it. The less fuss I make, the less likely someone is to consider the information juicy and worthy of spreading.

Being stealth in this way does have its stresses, but I don't think it can compare with the stress of being stealth with a sexual partner. I couldn't handle that, and I would want full disclosure anyway.

The link was thought provoking but it missed a couple of things.  To some people, a confident transgendered individual  is a step up, not a step down.  I have far more women and men interested in me now than I ever did before.  It's because I'm not hiding.  It's because I've been through a terrible ordeal.  It's because of honest strength.

The other thing it missed is random events.  Old, forgotten and buried facts comming to light due to computers and data that lives forever.  It will find you, even if it's just an inquiry.

We need to live true to ourselves, even if at times that is very uncomfortable or very unpleasant.

I wish stealth was possible....

Hugs

Jen

Quote from: AnonyMs on January 17, 2016, 07:51:43 PM
I admire those who live openly.

I'm kind of stealth, in that I'm continuing to live male when I should have socially transitioned already. I don't like the hiding and fear of being outed, and its getting more oppressive as the years go by. I'd hate to socially transition and end up doing the same thing again.

I don't think its ethically right to lie to your partner. I can understand why people do, but you're basically pushing your problems onto them. I can't imagine being capable of doing that myself.

Sorry but that is not what stealth for a transwoman means. If you are a biological male, presenting as a male ( nothing wrong with that btw) then that is different than being a post op transwoman leading her life as a stealth. The first one is called living in the closet. The two  scenarios are totally different and have completely different implications.

Quote from: Ritana on January 17, 2016, 11:19:57 PM

Sorry but that is not what stealth for a transwoman means. If you are a biological male, presenting as a male ( nothing wrong with that btw) then that is different than being a post op transwoman leading her life as a stealth. The first one is called living in the closet. The two  scenarios are totally different and have completely different implications.

I know that, that's why I said "kind of". Its the closest I could relate my experience to the subject at hand. I've been on HRT for years and I'm pretty far from male at this point.

May I ask the reason why you haven't taken the step of transitioning? (BA, body surgeries, etc?).

Quote from: AnonyMs on January 17, 2016, 11:57:21 PM
I know that, that's why I said "kind of". Its the closest I could relate my experience to the subject at hand. I've been on HRT for years and I'm pretty far from male at this point.

Stealth is kind of like living in the closet; you're still hiding a part of yourself

Quote from: Ritana on January 18, 2016, 12:43:49 AM
May I ask the reason why you haven't taken the step of transitioning? (BA, body surgeries, etc?).

Family, money. I'm not desperate enough yet. I take little steps as I have to, and so far haven't crossed the line.

I thinking SRS next; no one has to know. BA, FFS, electrolysis, all could out me, so I'm leaving those for if and when I socially transition.

Edit: I forgot fear, I have a healthy dose of that.

But no reputable surgeon would perform srs without a 2- year RLE.

Going back to topic, I think stealth is a double-edged sword. I can't and will never tell a guy I'm trans. In a real straight guy's eyes, you are just a man pumped up with hormones and surgeries.

For many reasons I could never go stealth. I'm way too well known for a start.

Also I am proud of being me, the fight I had the struggle I had and yes my bravery in finally overcoming my fears.

I am lucky, the society I live in doesn't care if you are TG, Gay, Lesbian a combination of them or want to walk around dressed as Ronald McDonald.

I would walk around in a T-shirt saying 'I came out as Transgender before it became popular'.

Why not? I have nothing to be ashamed of for being the woman I am.

Quote from: Ritana on January 18, 2016, 01:17:16 AM
But no reputable surgeon would perform srs without a 2- year RLE.

Going back to topic, I think stealth is a double-edged sword. I can't and will never tell a guy I'm trans. In a real straight guy's eyes, you are just a man pumped up with hormones and surgeries.

Not sure about that, some insecure men may. I met a guy on the weekend who used a cute pick up line and I responded in kind. I told him I was TG before we got hot and steamy, his reply was 'I don't care, you are one of the most fascinating women I have met'. Ye he had good lines!

I'd like to live like Cindy does. That I can admire.

Quote from: Cindy on January 18, 2016, 01:22:09 AM
I would walk around in a T-shirt saying 'I came out as Transgender before it became popular'.

I'd like to see that. I wonder if you could sell them.

Quote from: Ritana on January 18, 2016, 01:17:16 AM
But no reputable surgeon would perform srs without a 2- year RLE.

That's a widely held belief that's actually incorrect.

personally , I think people make this into  issue where there is no issue. I live my life within the laws of government , that's all anyone should be concerned with. I think we went through this about 40 some years ago with the Hippies and what did society get from that , but granola and health food.

It is very easy to use the word incorrect without elaborating, especially when it's based on wishful thinking.
.
Any of the reputable surgeons would like to see that you have lived in you identified gender during the RLE. Plus, you will need approval from two gender specialists.

Prior to my SRS I contacted many world known surgeons and I can tell you that they all wanted to see two referral letters from two different psychiatrists specialised in  gender issues.

Quote from: Ritana on January 18, 2016, 01:53:21 AM
It is very easy to use the word incorrect without elaborating, especially when it's based on wishful thinking.
.
Any of the reputable surgeons would like to see that you have lived in you identified gender during the RLE. Plus, you will need approval from two gender specialists.

Prior to my SRS I contacted many world known surgeons and I can tell you that they all wanted to see two referral letters from two different psychiatrists specialised in  gender issues.

This comes back nicely to stealth. I'm not elaborating on purpose; I don't wish to cause anyone anyone any trouble. Why? Because its not accepted in the trans community, just like being trans is not accepted in the wider society, which is why people hide behind closeting and stealth.

It's also Internet, there's nothing I can say that proves anything. However you can judge me by reading my posts and seeing what kind of person I am. I like to think I'm not given to wishful thinking.

 :police:

I am aware of this situation and I feel it more useful to move back to Suzi's original thread before we get bogged down.

Thank You

Cindy

The ethical issues are debatable. For instance is living stealth in a long term relationship any more or less ethical than living in the closet, getting married, and having children while keeping your secret? I don't think it to be much different but I don't believe either case is unethical per say. This is from someone who did the latter . I think any of us who have lived in the closet can relate to someone living stealth in that sense.

That said living in either manner, with such a secret, does have its effects on a person, especially in a little by term commitment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Stealth or not, it's your business. I'm just glad that we, as a community living in a society that's becoming better informed, are no longer required to live stealth as was the requirement in times past.

I was stealth, living my life in peace, nobody knew my history. I willingly gave it up even though I didn't need to, for a couple of reasons. First, it's stressful to have to always keep your story straight. To a degree (greater than I had imagined) that required me to deny my past. Nope, didn't care for that.

Second reason I came out: I saw, and continue to see, too much transphobic nonsense going on in our society and decided I needed to take some kind of action. I felt it would be hard to be a credible voice for transgender rights if I don't live authentically.

BTW, it hasn't hurt my dating life at all. Weeding out the ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s and keeping the ones who value what is unique about me is no different than the challenges faced by someone with a physical disability. Sure, it cuts down the eligible dating pool, but why would you want to settle for anyone who doesn't have the depth of character to see the real you?

Quote from: Cindy on January 18, 2016, 01:27:12 AM
Not sure about that, some insecure men may. I met a guy on the weekend who used a cute pick up line and I responded in kind. I told him I was TG before we got hot and steamy, his reply was 'I don't care, you are one of the most fascinating women I have met'. Ye he had good lines!

Which is true ... the experience of being transgender gives many a depth and understanding ... and makes them fascinating :) .. imo ...


hugs

I can readily understand the lure of stealth.  I think it is true that once someone recognizes us as transgender that descriptor and the transition from wherever is hard to keep from the forefront of their thinking.  I am just as guilty and have met people i did not recognize as trans and once I did i looked at them in a new light of trying to imagine them as??

This is such a personal choice issue and for those who have the option of being successfully stealth I can only imagine the draw to just blend in.  Why would anyone want to raise more hairy eyeballs or second looks or hurtful remarks or literal risks of harm and rejection?  Some of us do not have that option with telltale features that can easily give us away.  As one of those it was part of my decision matrix early on.  Transition for me was/is very public and being passable, much less stealth, not a reasonable goal.  That was my choice, to move into a life that feels so much better.  With greater congruence in body and mind I feel great regardless of pass and stealth.

Perhaps because i had so many years of hiding and denial I cannot fathom now trying to invent cover stories or avoiding topics that could out me.  Better for me to live as clearly transparent a life as possible.  It's been said that it takes a perfect memory to be successfully stealth.  My memory is not that keen and i can only imagine slipping up when people start talking about our past.  I really like having nothing to hide.

Dating is fraught with opportunity to put our best foot forward and then find it closer to being in our mouth. ;)  Again, this is a personal judgment to make about how much disclosure and when.  We all know about the safety and trust issues that are the basis of successful relationships. 

And then the concept of visibility comes into play with a real need for visible transgender mentors, educators, advocates and more people who will ensure progressive change for civil rights and greater acceptance of diversity and the dignity and worth of all people just as they are.  If we don't do it we leave it to the celebrities or??

Tessa brings up issues with which I've dealt.

I've had two marriages, two children, and two divorces (not in that order, btw). Whenever the subject comes up I'm happy to tell friends about my children, and grandchildren. I can do that because my family has accepted me unconditionally. The fact that they all live 2,000 miles away means there are no unexpected meetings between my family and my friends where questions could cause one of them to unintentionally out me.  No one has asked about my exes. If the subject came up I'd say I prefer to talk about happier times.

Of much more difficulty for me is hiding the time I spent in the Army—three years, tour in Vietnam. That time did not define who I am, but it informs my attitude toward things such as those who managed to avoid military service, yet are enthusiastic supporters of sending other people's children to war. It hurts to hold my tongue, but I do. When asked if I spent time in the military I say, "No!" and hope I'm convincing. The only American service women who served in Vietnam, as far as I know, were nurses. I have almost zero medical knowledge—I'd have a hard time lying about that.

I've tried to keep my story as simple as possible so that I never have to remember who knows what about my past. I'm happy to share my work history, which is probably the only opportunity for being outed. But I have no interest in lying. So far I've been fortunate. If my house of cards comes crashing down I'll deal with it. I'm at an age where passing (no, the other kind) has become something I contemplate. I feel I owe all my friends an explanation for why I worked overtime to deceive them (I didn't, but some will feel that way). I've begun work on a letter I'd like read at whatever memorial service I get in the hope that most won't defile my memory.

That's how I handle stealth. It works for me. I hope anyone who chooses anonymity finds a way to make it work.

Quote from: Ritana on January 18, 2016, 01:17:16 AM
In a real straight guy's eyes, you are just a man pumped up with hormones and surgeries.

Why some men date post-op passable and openly trans girls? Why some of them ask for the op and wait until the girl has gone under the knife?

For those ones still in the closet and with no plans of coming out there's no point in dating somebody who's openly trans and post-op since this can lead people to raise suspicions, make questions and eventually uncover them as closeted bi/gay/whatever guys. Normally these men just marry a ciswoman in order to keep-up appearances and then live kind of a "double life" to fulfill their fantasies.

I think if a guy believes transgirls are just men pumped with hormones and surgeries the judgement it's not related to his sexual orientation but to his lack of understanding/knowledge about transsexualism. Same for girls. For example, I've seen lesbians who think transmen are women and transgirls are men. Same for gay boys. Same for bisexual folks. I can't see how being straight can lead someone to think that way.

If a straight guy understands what transsexualism is but refuses to date a trans girl due to fear of what people would say... well, I dunno what other girls would think, but that kind of insecure/coward behaviour shuts down my libido real quick :D

I agree with you. Transmen are men and transwomen are women. Unfortunately that's not how straight cis guys see it. I got hurt so many times that I decided not to disclose anymore. My last relationship lasted 2.5 years and he never knew (nor will he). I live my life just like any other girl. It's easier this way.

Yup, I think really most people (both genders, all orientations) don't understand it.

Quote from: Ritana on January 22, 2016, 01:40:03 PM
I agree with you. Transmen are men and transwomen are women. Unfortunately that's not how straight cis guys see it. I got hurt so many times that I decided not to disclose anymore. My last relationship lasted 2.5 years and he never knew (nor will he). I live my life just like any other girl. It's easier this way.

Sure, this is mostly true. But I'd maintain if a cis guy has a good heart there's a way to overcome that. You probably can't go the dating route at first, or even probably for quite awhile. You have to build a friendship to a point where he understands you deeply enough that the natural tendencies and stereotypes he has melt away and he can see the beautiful you unencumbered by the fog of prejudice.  Since your not starting out of the gate thinking about dating to attain a long-term committed relationship there's no need to start out talking about that you are trans first either., Not all people have prejudices because they are bad people - some have good hearts but are just ignorant. Never give up on finding true love, but sometimes you have to find it when you are not directly looking for it.

Love,
Denali

I admire those who have the courage and the ability to be open about it however I don't judge those who don't/can't.
Even though things are getting better there are many places where being open just isn't safe. None the less the article still holds a good point.

Quote from: DenaliBe on January 22, 2016, 02:52:47 PM
Sure, this is mostly true. But I'd maintain if a cis guy has a good heart there's a way to overcome that. You probably can't go the dating route at first, or even probably for quite awhile. You have to build a friendship to a point where he understands you deeply enough that the natural tendencies and stereotypes he has melt away and he can see the beautiful you unencumbered by the fog of prejudice.  Since your not starting out of the gate thinking about dating to attain a long-term committed relationship there's no need to start out talking about that you are trans first either., Not all people have prejudices because they are bad people - some have good hearts but are just ignorant. Never give up on finding true love, but sometimes you have to find it when you are not directly looking for it.

Love,
Denali

I totally agree with you, I'm just not prepared to take any risks. I find it works fine for me this way.

Quote from: Ritana on January 18, 2016, 01:17:16 AM
But no reputable surgeon would perform srs without a 2- year RLE.

First, the generally accepted standard is 1 year. Even less is accepted by quite a few surgeons.

Quote from: Ritana on January 18, 2016, 01:17:16 AM
In a real straight guy's eyes, you are just a man pumped up with hormones and surgeries.

Second, that is utter nonsense. It's a prejudice based on outdated heteronormative standards and it's a little bit transphobic as well. My real straight guy loves me like I'm the only woman on earth. Sorry if your experience isn't anything like that, but please don't spread disillusionment to other trans women who are hoping to have a quality relationship with a straight guy. Love from regular men for trans women happens all the time.

I suppose all we can do is talk from our own experiences. We are here to share perspectives and thoughts, not to fight so please let's respect each other's points of view and not use strong words. Let's agree to disagree in a healthy way.

I am a few years post op; have dated exclusively straight guys who had no clue about my past so I think my experience is far from being "not valid".

Many open minded straight guys are just not attracted to the idea of dating transexuals. It does not make them transphobic. It is a matter of personal preference that these guys prefer being with ciswomen. Yes. In an ideal world I wish this distinction didn't exist in their mind.  Sadly, that's not the case. I know it hurts but that's the harsh reality on the ground. Until things change, I continue not to disclose my past to my prospective boyfriends. Currently, I'm dating a guy, and things are going great! However, I am sure that things CAN ONLY go pair-shaped if I disclose, so I don't see why I should ruin thiings.

Rita

Regarding stealth, we all have opinions, and usually strong ones, but to be able to discuss it we need to respect that. I see how people are against stealth, and seeing other open trans people when I was younger was a huge thing, however for whatever reasons - all valid reasons - stealth is a preferable and often safer for the people who choose that route.


Personally, I am stealth to friends. Going into college, I would not be safe to be openly trans, a close friend was recently assaulted for being trans. The idea that people may question whether or not I am a man, or see me as less of one, is not something I am comfortable with. Maybe just paranoia, but something I can't live with.

I, for one, believe strongly that it's your choice, and everyone's circumstances are different.
We all have our reasons. :)

Quote from: Cindy on January 18, 2016, 01:22:09 AM
I would walk around in a T-shirt saying 'I came out as Transgender before it became popular'.

I'll buy one too :). There's not many people who have fully experienced being both genders, it's a blessing.

It's an interesting question... If you had something in your past - for example you'd made some mistake - but you'd worked hard and were no longer that person - do you then have an ethical responsibility to tell every new person you meet? ... Your closest partner?

Why, if you're no longer that person?

If you pass well and have taken steps to delete your digital past (which is possible), is it a responsibility to tell people or is it none of their business?

I think there are only philosophical answers to this question.

For me personally I like to be able to relate experiences/stories from my past if I think it might help someone in the present. However that's not the only answer...

xox
sami

Quote from: Ritana on January 26, 2016, 04:04:46 AM
I suppose all we can do is talk from our own experiences. We are here to share perspectives and thoughts, not to fight so please let's respect each other's points of view and not use strong words. Let's agree to disagree in a healthy way.

Although I was brusque in my response I wouldn't say I used strong words. Yes, I was calling you out, and for good reason.

When you say "In a real straight guy's eyes, you are just a man pumped up with hormones and surgeries." that's an absolute statement. You are saying "this is how it is" and therefore you are ignoring and discounting experiences unlike yours. This is not helpful.

What is a "real straight guy"? This implies that a man who knowingly dates a trans woman must be something other than straight and thus wants to date someone who is a variation of a gay man. Is this what you think a trans woman is? My womanhood is not in doubt, nor is the heterosexuality of the man I date. A man who sees me as a man pumped up with hormones is, at best, uniformed and narrow-minded. That does not make him a "real straight guy".

My remark about transphobia was not about men. I was referring to what appears to be your own internalized transphobia. I know that sounds like an insult, but it is not - it's just an observation. It's fairly common, and it may have to do with your own unresolved issues about your transition and perhaps your as-yet-undefined idea of the role of trans women in society. I really don't know, and this is not the place for amateur psychoanalysis on my part. But deal with your stuff, and please don't make rules about other trans women's dating.

I don't personally agree with the perception of these straight guys (those date exclusively ciswomen) towards transwomen but that's the harsh reality on the ground. They prefer ciswomen, and I can't blame them for that or accuse them or those who tolerate  their approach of transphobia!! It seems like I hit a nerve there!

We all have different perspectives on the issue, and I am glad we do. That's the good thing about this website; otherwise, there would be no need to debate. Just because someone disagrees with me, or holds a different philosophy than mine doesn't mean I'm going to accuse them of having unresolved issues. On the contrary, they mybe stating a reality that I find hurtful.

As I previously said, being 100 stealth is a double edged sword. I chose to adopt this lifestyle, and so far I haven't had any issues whatsoever. I have had a few boyfriends, and my last relationship lasted almost 3 years. He still calls me and remembers me as a regular cis-girl (which is a blessing!) I enjoy being with a guy who cherishes my femininity without having to imagine me as a boy in my former life. I also don't have to explain myself or risk being stigmatised and rejected.