Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hello ladies,

I have been trying to do some research but can't seem to get any results. I have been using electrolysis for about 40 hours over all, and its painful and expensive as you all know. My electrolysis is highly reccommended so she does good work, but I feel like I haven't seen any positive results. Even after a fresh shave I still see that grey skin tone. I am contemplating going with laser removal as I've heard they have better results if you have darker hair as my face is mostly composed of.

I guess im trying to determine is there any other way to do this? Or am I really damned to another 200+ painful hours over the next few years with electrolysis? *sigh*

Thanks all,

Stella

laser does destroy shadow in a quicker time. If you're an ideal candidate, I say start with laser for quicker results. My beard shadow which was really heavy took about 5-6 sessions to get rid of completely. You may have total removal in some areas after a bunch of sessions but in general a lot of the hairs will become very light.

I started with 6 sessions of laser (hair was dark, face light), then switched to electrolysis to be sure hair would be removed permanently. It took about 150 hours, 2 yrs. Laser was Diode. Electrolysis was thermolysis with microscope.

Really depends on the type of hair and skin tone.  I had a really dark, coarse beard and so five sessions of laser hair removal have made it so that I have just a few patches of hair left on my chin.  Having said that, I had very sparse white hairs, and these were unaffected by laser, as they would be, so I'm thinking about electrolysis at this point.

I think the way most MTFs do it is that they do laser FIRST (if you have the right skin tone/hair type), and then do electrolysis to get rid of stubborn hairs.  From what I hear electrolysis is much more painful, and can be more expensive, so it wouldn't make sense to start with that method. 

Quote from: KayXo on January 25, 2016, 08:39:28 AM
I started with 6 sessions of laser (hair was dark, face light), then switched to electrolysis to be sure hair would be removed permanently. It took about 150 hours, 2 yrs. Laser was Diode. Electrolysis was thermolysis with microscope.

I had 6 Laser sessions last year. I start my very first Electro this Thursday. It's only going to be 15 mins because we want to see how my skin and I react to it. It will be Thermo to start and maybe go Blend after.

Results will determine further plans.

Thanks for the replies ladies.

Yes I started with electrolysis first just because I heard it was more permanent. But now I am seeing that I should have gone with the laser first approach then get the stubborn lighter hairs with electrolysis.

You girls have any tips for any specific type of laser treatment or anything I should be aware of? Any ballpark figures?

Definitely go with laser for your dark hairs and electrolysis for the light.  It works. 

Find a place you can trust.  Look for clinics that continuously modernize their equipment.  If you are ever near Bellevue, WA there is a place I would recommend.  I think you said you were in Spokane in another thread, or maybe I'm mixing people up.  Anyhow, the type of laser that works best will vary based on your hair and skin.  If you are overly sensitive to pain that also is a factor. 

Quote from: CrysC on January 26, 2016, 12:30:05 AM
Definitely go with laser for your dark hairs and electrolysis for the light.  It works. 

Find a place you can trust.  Look for clinics that continuously modernize their equipment.  If you are ever near Bellevue, WA there is a place I would recommend.  I think you said you were in Spokane in another thread, or maybe I'm mixing people up.  Anyhow, the type of laser that works best will vary based on your hair and skin.  If you are overly sensitive to pain that also is a factor.

Good memory yes I am in Spokane. :) I do have a high pain tolerance and didn't use numbing cream for electrolysis so I'm sure if lasering is less painful then I will be fine.

Oh one more thing.  My friend (also a trans woman) said she loved the home laser device Tria, once she had completed her course of professional laser hair removal.  It's great for maintenance touch-ups - she says it's super effective on dark hair.  This is worth noting for those who've finished a hair removal package and still would benefit from more sessions.

PS. I love Spokane :) my friend and I had a crazy night there while on a roadtrip, haha.

Quote from: starting_anew on January 26, 2016, 12:53:05 AM
Oh one more thing.  My friend (also a trans woman) said she loved the home laser device Tria, once she had completed her course of professional laser hair removal.  It's great for maintenance touch-ups - she says it's super effective on dark hair.  This is worth noting for those who've finished a hair removal package and still would benefit from more sessions.

PS. I love Spokane :) my friend and I had a crazy night there while on a roadtrip, haha.

Thanks! Yeah Spokane has some crazy times lol. Also you're very pretty and for being on HRT for only 2 months?! Damn girl you are blessed!

Quote from: starting_anew on January 26, 2016, 12:53:05 AM
Oh one more thing.  My friend (also a trans woman) said she loved the home laser device Tria, once she had completed her course of professional laser hair removal.  It's great for maintenance touch-ups - she says it's super effective on dark hair.  This is worth noting for those who've finished a hair removal package and still would benefit from more sessions.

PS. I love Spokane :) my friend and I had a crazy night there while on a roadtrip, haha.

Tria is great if You have no time constraints (and have lots of patience).
I cleared my whole face and neck area with Tria, but it took about two years.

I have had one session of Laser and I was impressed with the results.  Unfortunately, being 45, the grey hair have begun their takeover. 

After a week after the session, it was nice to see all of the hair growth be all white-ish.   

I'm at a tad over 5 weeks and i can see the shadow creeping back.  I was supposed to have had my 2nd appointment last Saturday, but we had this silly thing called a blizzard hit our area. 

I have 5 more sessions and can't wait to see what things will be like when it's all over. 

Hey hey.

The tactics I'd recommend for dark hair is first laser or alike until it gets sparse, then electrolysis. Skin therapist who works with transgender should know when to switch. From my experience, I can also point out the SHR AFT, that warms up the skin gradually rather than shooting single beams. They use it on me, because I seem to have very very sensitive skin.

One warning though, SHR AFT is a nice thing, but is worthless without somebody who has [extensive] experience with it. I am working with a woman who was a clear first-timer when we began. But I stick with her, because this is the Netherlands, hi-tech is usually unavailable here, and requiring high skilled people on the top of that is just not possible. She gets better with time; the most important thing, she plays safe from the beginning, but that is the borderline of tmi. The bottom line is: if you can choose, get good machine and good hands! Good hands are just as worth as the good machine, and even the more important component as the quality of machine used lowers. The US are big, and I sense customers are protected way better than here.

I transitioned around 4 years ago.  And I had a beard that would make any Greek sailor jealous.

It was a full beard.  I started with Laser, and that went really well.  But, I got like 20 % of my hair back!! This isn't a good thing for us ladies.

And I recently started seeing my chest hair around the armpit area start to grow back. 
There went another $$$$

So my recommendation is the following:

If you have the money, and you are desperate to transition yesterday, then go with laser first, KNOWING that you will most likely need Electrolysis later.  You have to shaved your beard when you do Laser. So you don't have to worry about growing your beard out like you would if you were getting Electrolysis. 
But in my opinion you are just throwing money away.  And that's not a luxury most Trans Girls have.

However, if you can wait a bit, and take advantage (this isn't for everyone of course) of the prime results that Electrolysis gives you (99.9 % of hair never grows back) then even better.  You can never go wrong with it.

Just make sure that you fully understand the differences. And that you place your face in good hands.  I didn't do enough research and had to deal with a few "potholes" that a bad Electrolosist <---SP? lol    did.   And like I said the sooner the better you will be done.  I STILL have a small patch under my chin I deal with. Yuck!

I hope this helps!

Tuesday, January 26, 2016 8:04 PM

Quote from: Stella Sophia on January 25, 2016, 04:05:02 AM
...I have been using electrolysis for about 40 hours over all, and its painful and expensive as you all know. ...

Here is a quote from a different thread highlighting my pain management approach...

Quote from: Kao3 on January 20, 2016, 04:47:06 PM
I had full facial hair removal via electrolysis. I agree, it is painful in its own unique way! My pain management involved the following...

• My doctor gave me a "Lidocaine/Prilocaine (2.5%/2.5%) cream" prescription which could be refilled about once per month for up to a year, so I could get tubes as needed within limitations of my health plan.
• I applied the Lidocaine/Prilocaine no later than one hour prior to my appointment, where my face would be white thick with the cream. I would not skimp. I would cake it on so no or little skin was visible. I would then cover it with 3 pieces of plastic wrap, one for left cheek, right cheek, and upper lip (in a way where my mouth was not covered by the plastic wrap). I would then sit in the waiting room for at least one hour before my appointment.
• I avoided coffee and caffeine at least several hours prior to the appointment, if not completely avoiding it for that day until after my appointment.
• Getting to my appointment ahead of time, relaxed, seemed critical to a good experience.
• I sometimes took an over the counter herbal Gaia Kava Kava about 15 minutes prior to starting.  http://www.gaiaherbs.com/products/detail/269/Kava-Kava-Root (http://www.gaiaherbs.com/products/detail/269/Kava-Kava-Root)
• Drinking wine or whatnot the night before seemed to me to be associated with more pain at the next day's appointment. Generally speaking, if I had a more painful experience on any particular day, I would try to think carefully about what I'd done differently the night before, or that day, and adjust as needed. This helped me learn about myself and how I deal with electrolysis.

I heard about the "dentist Novocaine" option but never tried it. I heard about more powerful meds but I did not want to deal with having to wait for them to wear off after my appointment (before driving).

One thing... I discovered that my pain threshold went noticeably lower (I could feel more pain more easily) after starting HRT. Fortunately I had already been far into my facial hair removal process.

Regardless of my pain management efforts, the process still involved some pain, but I must say... being relaxed and getting that thick layer of cream on at least an hour in advance was critical to avoiding a significantly more painful experience.

It's tough but it's obvious that you will win over the pain. Best of luck!

If it helps to know, here is a brief summary of my hair removal experience...

Depending on the area of my body, I had relatively light brownish to black hairs, with white/gray a little on chest and facial area. I'm near 50 so there's some white/gray hair of that type.

I started with laser, High Speed LightSheer DUET laser on legs, chest, arms, and face. I went approximately every 6 weeks (estimated hair growth cycle). It was immediately effective on chest, arms, and face such that I was extremely impressed. I went for about 7 sessions over about a 9 month period. Laser for all but face has been phenomenal.

For my face, the laser would remove some hairs but was largely ineffective. I chalk this up to the large amount of white/gray whiskers that I'm guessing got in the way of the laser reaching the black facial area.

I started thermolysis electrolysis on my face about 4 months after having started laser. I was between jobs at the time so I was able to go about twice a week, about 2 hrs each session at first, if not a couple of renegade 3 hours sessions I can't believe I endured. I really wanted to get past it... little did I know, electrolysis is something I learned one must really be patient with, there is no rushing it from being a long term process. One can increase sessions which moves it along faster, but I don't believe there's a notion of doing that to get "past it quickly." So it requires patience on the part of the patient. :)

So I am happy I did some renegade sessions in the first few months, but I'm also glad I learned to eventually relax and just go at a normal pace.

As well, what I didn't know at first, electrolysis demands attentiveness and preparation from me as a patient/client. The above quote highlighting my individual electrolysis pain management strategy was born out of having patience to observe what might help or hurt my comfort during sessions. For example, if a session was painful, I'd go over what I'd done that day, or the night before. Did I drink? Not get enough sleep? Have caffeinated products? etc.

I learned my preparation for appointments not only began the night before, but it also involved my being attentive enough to show up early, have cream on my face, and that sort of stuff. If I failed at doing things like that and was, for example, late or rushing, it really stressed me, and it also often meant the numbing cream might have been hastily applied, or not applied long enough beforehand, that sort of thing.

So maybe your initial sessions were difficult because you need more time to learn your own personal approach and system, the "magic" that makes it bearable for you. I don't think it's ever a picnic, but it got much better for me as I learned my system. I don't think it's uncommon for newbies to go through that. The days when I was really relaxed and prepared, time would usually zip by, and the electrologist would achieve a good clearing of my face and I'd leave a happy camper. Rushing ill prepared sessions are night and day compared to those where I'm relaxed and prepared.

I can swear by both laser and electrolysis for the different areas for a case like mine... both worked great for me. After just two or three laser sessions, I had little regrowth on non-facial areas. I'm a year and half into electrolysis but my appointments are just one or two brief ones per month, if even that. If I don't have an appointment for a while, very few mostly light hairs grow in (so if I have to shave, they're largely not visible after shaving). I have some more work to do on the face, but I feel it is downhill right now so I don't have to go as religiously anymore.

After starting HRT, my pain threshold seems lower so I like to go less often... but I also can do that without much impact. Once I arriving at that sweet spot where I had slow/little regrowth, I really came to appreciate that I stuck with electrolysis.

Oh, I think it's critical to get a good electrologist, preferably someone trans-friendly, perhaps with a decade or two of experience if possible.

Regarding electrolysis method, I've heard from two different highly experienced trans-friendly electrologists, one who focuses on thermolysis, the other blend, both say it's not about either method but rather the electrologist's experience. I agree.

Once you find an experienced laser tech and/or electrologist, both should be able to offer good input generally, if not specifically on pain management approaches. That's how I learned some of the significant pain management techniques on my list.

Best of luck!

Quote from: Stella Sophia on January 26, 2016, 02:00:51 AM
Thanks! Yeah Spokane has some crazy times lol. Also you're very pretty and for being on HRT for only 2 months?! Damn girl you are blessed!

Thank you so much :) that's really sweet of you.  I think you're super pretty yourself and your makeup is on point! :)

I have had little luck with hair removal, after 7 laser sessions I haven't noticed much effect at all, except for pain bad enough that once we had to stop because I was sobbing. I am told I have one more regular session and then a few clean up session then I guess I will start a few hundred hours of electrolisis. which should be super fun being full time and having to go without shaveing for several days before each session. plus the 45 minute drive to the place every time.

Serena

ps. Sorry to be a downer I hate this subject.

Hi Stella.

My wife and I have  been using the Silk-n-Flash-n Go for three or four months now and i'm getting awesome results.  It is relatively painless (the worst on the highest setting feels like a rubber band snapping but it is bearable) and the best part is that it is FDA approved.  There was even a segment on The Doctors about it.

Let me know if you'd like to hear more about how I use it.  I can go three days plus without shaving and whatever comes out is fine and light.  Very good product.

Be safe

Marlo

Hi Stella,

My experience with laser is that it is more temporary than permanent. Laser can cause more hair to grow on some people. I have first hand knowledge of person who's facial hair went from mostly vellus (fine) hair to full on need to shave 2x to 3x per day terminal beard hair after laser hair removal treatment. She had red hair and fair skin. This is very bad for a female.
If your skin is not very white and hair black or very dark brown, I recommend skipping the laser.

Finding a highly skill Electrologist is the key to getting very effective treatment with the least pain.
In Oregon, Electrologists are required to take 600 hours of training and pass a State administered Practical test and a written test before being licensed, it turns out the in Washington, Electrologists are not licensed and no training is required (ouch  :o :o :o )
 
If you were closer to Portland Oregon, I would recommend the one I use. For a longer reply on electrolysis please take a look at my post here   https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,199499.msg1785458.html#msg1785458 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,199499.msg1785458.html#msg1785458)

-Cindi

Quote from: Cindi Lane on January 27, 2016, 10:14:20 AM
My experience with laser is that it is more temporary than permanent.

Agreed.

QuoteLaser can cause more hair to grow on some people. I have first hand knowledge of person who's facial hair went from mostly vellus (fine) hair to full on need to shave 2x to 3x per day terminal beard hair after laser hair removal treatment.

I question this as I've heard this more than once. Why did this person go for laser in the first place if her facial hair was vellous? Secondly, women who go to laser for facial hair removal are wanting to remove facial hair that has recently increased in number, thickness, etc. Something hormonal is going on, loss of E, increase T/E ratio, etc. Had they not gone for laser in the first place, perhaps their hairs would have become terminal, thicker anyways and caused them to have to shave more often. One can just as easily say, it's because they shaved, that suddenly more hair started to grow. We just don't know but I strongly suspect it's hormonal, nothing else and it would have happened regardless.

My experience with laser has been that it is permanent.  It may take a few treatments for some areas but it's permanent.  It's much faster than electrolysis to cover an area and overall hurts less, but still hurts.

The face has easily been the most resistant area to any sort of treatment.  That would be due to heritage I suppose. 

Before laser I used to be a Chewbacca stand in. (slight exaggeration)  Now I'm hairless except for scalp and eyebrows.  My body treatments were over 5 years ago and there has been no regrowth.  My face took a lot more effort and I did it in two large efforts.  The first effort was about 5 years back and served to clear the sides of my face. 

I went through a go all the way or not stage that lasted a few years and then over the past year finished the rest.  Roughly 1 30 min treatment of laser and electrolysis every 2 months for the past year and now I'm clear. 

If you have laser and it's temporary then I think you might want to look into a different clinic. 

Hm, judging my this thread, it would seem that fair-skinned, fair-haired people like myself only have electrolysis as an option.

I would definitivly recommend getting rid of what you can in your face with laser as soon as possible . My hairs are getting thinner , more spaced and blonde . It happened with both my body and face . I have no more chest/butt/scrotum hair growth  , hairs on legs /cheeks / arms/ armpit are so slow growing and are 3/4 blonde I would say . I would recommend to wait before doing any body hair removal . However get rid of facial hairs with laser for sure

Thanks again for all the replies ladies.

Yes my facial hair is mostly black and my skin is very fair, so even with a ton of concealer and foundation you can still see a dark shade. I hate it so much, but I think going with laser might be the best option for me.

Don't forget to use the red or orange lipstick - as long as you blend it right it will cover nicely until those pesky follicles produce no more.  I have a pretty good little system going if you need help with it- fortuntaly our Silk-n-Flash-n -Go is doing its thing nicely.


Be safe

Marlo

I might need to get my girl hands on one of those devices you mentioned MsMarlo, thanks for tip.

Stella:

Here is the link - check it out and let me know what you think.  I use it more frequently than the instructions state, but that is just me. 

https://www.silkn.com/flash-and-go/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=%7Bkeyword%7D&utm_campaign=flash%26go

Talk to ya soon and be safe

Marlo

Just beware, these may not permanently eliminate unwanted hairs...invest wisely.

Hi all, I'd think I'd go for laser myself first and see if that will make electrolysis a non necessity. Questions for you ladies:

1` - I'm looking at PTF and not IPL for laser treatment. Have any of you tried PTF or even better both? If so what are your take on the results?

2   - I'm thinking of going to laser but only after 3 months in HRT just because it is supposed to make your hair lighter. Question I have is to see if there's some sort of timetable for us starting HRT?

Thanks for your answers :)

Three hundred bucks with FDA approval and proven results is not too bad of an investment.  I underwent four electro treatments at $75 each and not much of an area was done; I think we all can deduce how much a full treatment would ultimately cost.

This way you're saving time and gas, you do it in the privacy of your own home, and there are no scheduling issues.  Everyone is different, so as always results will vary. The only contraindication to this particular product is if one has a darker skin tone the built in sensor will not allow the device to "fire." 

Just in case anyone is wondering no, I am not a salesperson or representative for this device; I'm just someone for whom this product has yielded great results. 

As always, be safe

Marlo

Quote from: MsMarlo on February 03, 2016, 10:47:17 PM
Three hundred bucks with FDA approval and proven results

What proven results? Have you read the studies? Were they short-term or long-term studies? Do they prove hair is permanently reduced or eliminated? Not the same thing. FDA approved could also just mean it's safe to use but perhaps not effective for truly eliminating unwanted hairs for good.

QuoteI underwent four electro treatments at $75 each and not much of an area was done; I think we all can deduce how much a full treatment would ultimately cost.

Electrolysis also costs me about that much per hour and in the end, I paid a lot but it was a worthwhile investment. 7-8 yrs later, still hair free and one less thing I have to worry about. Out of the way! :)

Check out the website as well as a segment on the Doctors and customer reviews as opposed to a product called "No-No;" very appropriately named.  Even with electro the results will vary from person to person as any worthwhile specialist will tell you. 

We're her to support each other, not necessarily debate issues or products.  In the end, we all have to do our own research and make our own decisions.  Even after I obtain my license, it will be up to my patients as to whether or not they will follow the course of action I have recommended. 

Be safe

Marlo

Quote from: MsMarlo on February 04, 2016, 04:40:59 PM
Check out the website as well as a segment on the Doctors and customer reviews as opposed to a product called "No-No;" very appropriately named.

I don't see any studies. :( Far from convincing.

QuoteEven with electro the results will vary from person to person as any worthwhile specialist will tell you.

J Cosmet Dermatol. 2013 Jun;12(2):153-62.

"While laser hair removal (LHR) is one of the most common cosmetic procedures practiced in the world, according to the FDA, the only current permanent form of hair removal is electrolysis."

Dermatol Ther. 2008 Sep-Oct;21(5):392-401.

"Electrolysis, thermolysis, and a combination of both are three popular procedures used for epilation or permanent hair removal"

J Am Acad Dermatol. 1995 Oct;33(4):662-6.

"Electrolysis has been performed since 1875. Electrolysis satisfactorily removes hair from women with static hair growth"

Cutis. 1990 May;45(5):319-21, 325-6.

"Electrolysis and thermolysis are popular and medically proven electrochemical and electrosurgical techniques for permanent hair removal."

QuoteWe're her to support each other, not necessarily debate issues or products.

It is important to clarify matters so as to help others make the best decision possible.

Sweetie, if you want to keep this going, be my guest.  As far as I'm concerned, this matter is closed.


Be safe

Marlo

I have had three full IPL sessions on my neck in 2015 and a touch up under my chin to clear a 1/2cm line that did not go away fully. Then three IPL on my lower face now. The whole neck is cleared and the last session was nearly.. 7-8+ months ago. I just got the third on my face a fortnight ago and all I have is small patches of hair on my chin and thinning on my upper lip. The issue area is under my bottom lip it is still a pain. However the girl doing mine said I really can not clear that part as easily so once we clear the rest you can grab a few free sessions to focus on it.

I started like this:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs13.postimg.org%2Fbjviq8i3b%2Fneck2.gif&hash=3be97f4c06995bba7fe8e2e3a5dc434314a9d76e)


(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs30.postimg.org%2Fo9zm4b401%2FIMG_0047.jpg&hash=8b36bdd04b08e11a63bdf5f1b2004523b6a1ab2f)

This is where I am now after 3 on my neck and just had 3rd on my face:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs23.postimg.org%2F9l39zg14r%2Fouch.jpg&hash=e7fb2ab27a6f6ef8cd2c05e0a166ae4566a25703)

I am aiming to clear it with two more I think on face and a touch up on the neck. Then start low dose hrt with a few one hour electrolysis if need be. Although no blonde hairs anywhere thus far or grey thankfully.