Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hello Ladies,

Is electrolysis and permanent hair removal in the genital region required for SRS? I have heard yes and no and I am thoroughly confused, any of you ladies willing to shed light on this?

Thanks in advance!

Stella

It depends on the technique used by the surgeon. If it's a penile inversion then yes; otherwise, other surgeons using other techniques won't need electrolysis prior to srs.

I thought their was only one type of SRS for the MtF? Penile inversion? What are the other types of surgeries?

Quote from: Stella Sophia on February 03, 2016, 01:20:25 AM
I thought their was only one type of SRS for the MtF? Penile inversion? What are the other types of surgeries?

Colonplasty (use part of the colon for the vaginal lining)
Penile inversion with scrotal flap
Skin grafts from the thigh or butt can also be used sometimes

Those are three I can think of. I had "Penile inversion with scrotal flap"

Then I presume you had electrolysis done?

Hi Stella it varies from surgeon to surgeon, generally none require it, some prefer you don't have it. So once you decide on a surgeon ask them.

You might want to get it done afterwards depending how much hair you like down there.

Quote from: Ritana on February 03, 2016, 06:24:13 AM
Then I presume you had electrolysis done?

Yes I did. It only had to be the back and lower edge of the scrotum. The front part does not go inside. With lashings of EMLA cream applied 45 minutes beforehand the electrolysis caused very little pain. There were also some hairs on the shaft near the base and I had those done too.

In surgery, the surgeon inspected what was left and burned out any hair roots he could see with an electrocauteriser. Inside seems to be hair free or else any remaining hair is so fine I cannot feel it.

Basically, it depends on the surgeon. I had penile inversion, but Brassard does not want electro, so I didn't do it. That was a selling point for him with me, actually. :)

(And I've had no hair issues post-op.)

Quote from: Jenna Marie on February 03, 2016, 07:06:40 AM
I had penile inversion, but Brassard does not want electro, so I didn't do it. That was a selling point for him with me, actually. :)

(And I've had no hair issues post-op.)

Also with Brassard, no electro beforehand BUT hair issues post-op :(. Brassard tried to re-cauterize hairs inside vagina post-op, for an extra 500$ but to no avail. If I had to redo things, I would have definitely done electrolysis. There is always a chance of hairs remaining inside, I was one of the unlucky ones. 

Hello, if you want to fast track SRS, like at almost walk-in speed.  You better have genital electrolysis completed.  Both Beverly Hills surgeons require it.  I got it done in under 3 months and thankfully no hair regrowth as I can see.

Starting electrolysis might also help in obtaining the required SRS referral letters much quicker.  Firm booking SRS date also aided my own fast track schedule.

FYI: Undergoing SRS ASAP might require getting a years worth of RLE done in a much shorter time frame.

EOM

i was wondering what was the  zone to get electrolysis on  on genital parts?  i think that not everything down there need to be hair-free

Quote from: archlord on February 03, 2016, 01:16:44 PM
i was wondering what was the  zone to get electrolysis on  on genital parts?  i think that not everything down there need to be hair-free

In my case it was a strip about 4cm wide that started 1.5cm from the anus and ran down the back of the scrotum, underneath and about 1cm up on the front. It is now the floor of my vagina whilst the penile skin forms the sides and top. The other parts of the scrotum formed my labia majora.

The advantages of this approach are:

1 - A good depth can be obtained by a longer length of scrotal tissue if required.

2 - The tissue remains vascularised and ennervated during the op reducing rejection / necrosis

3 - There is less tension pulling the sides of the vagina shut making dilation very easy

I got 6" of depth and started dilation about a month after surgery. I dilated for 15 minutes twice a day for 3 months then down to once every other day for a month, then once a week. I have lost no depth or width and regularly use a 6.5" x 35mm dilator each week.

All good stuff but electro was a key part and other surgeons may use the tissue in other ways meaning different parts need electro, but in general it is the back and bottom of the scrotum that needs doing.

thank you

So I keep thinking should I have the electrolysis on my genitalia and not need it? Or should I just not do it at all and hope the SRS doesn't require it? Either way I don't want to end up screwed because I need it done and haven't done it at all, or blew hundreds on something that is pointless.

I guess my question is how do I know if and when I will need electrolysis down there? And how long does it usually take? Do they clear up your testicles and penis? Or just penis?

It's permanent but can take time. I'm undergoing electro for SRS right now. I hope to be done very soon. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: Mariah2014 on February 06, 2016, 01:08:24 AM
It's permanent but can take time. I'm undergoing electro for SRS right now. I hope to be done very soon. Hugs
Mariah

So I gotta ask Mariah, is it painful having it done down there? I had most of my electrolysis on my upper lip which was the most painful, is it comparable to that?

To an extent it is. It is sometimes more than another. Hugs
Mariah

Quote from: Stella Sophia on February 06, 2016, 01:12:14 AM
So I gotta ask Mariah, is it painful having it done down there? I had most of my electrolysis on my upper lip which was the most painful, is it comparable to that?

If you choose to go to the surgeon who uses technique which  requires permanent hair removal keep in mind that neither laser or electrolysis are truly permanent , and one should wait a year or better two or more after completed hair removal, before proceeding with genital reconstruction. Many "permanently" removed hairs can grow back after a year or two, and isn't much that can be done later with those hairs if the hairs aren't dark in color. Better be one or two years late than sorry...

Dr Suporn is one of the surgeons who doesn't require hair removal, but even so there are occasional reports of hair post-op. I believe its just at the entrance though, so should be easy enough to remove.

Quote from: KayXo on February 03, 2016, 10:50:57 AM
Also with Brassard, no electro beforehand BUT hair issues post-op :(. Brassard tried to re-cauterize hairs inside vagina post-op, for an extra 500$ but to no avail. If I had to redo things, I would have definitely done electrolysis. There is always a chance of hairs remaining inside, I was one of the unlucky ones.

I went to Brassard but had electrolysis done prior to the surgery. All told it took about 12 months of hourly sessions about one a week and tapering off after about maybe 20 hours or so. I found an electrologist who was in the Boston area and specialized in doing this for the various surgeons. It wasn't fun, but at least I don't have any vaginal hair problems at all, and this is 13 years post-op now.

This subject upsets me. I can confirm that it is absolutely NOT necessary to have electrolysis of the lower region. Any surgeon that requires thus is barbaric. Yes, it does take more time and assistants...which means profits... to scrape the hair follicles off in surgery. But even you have electrolysis this scraping should be done. It distressing to hear over and over again it is required. Question your surgeon and you will see they will retract the requirement. It's just plain barbaric

Quote from: mmmmm on February 06, 2016, 03:19:41 AM
... keep in mind that neither laser or electrolysis are truly permanent , and one should wait a year or better two or more after completed hair removal, before proceeding with genital reconstruction. Many "permanently" removed hairs can grow back after a year or two, ...

Isn't electrolysis scientifically proven to be permanent on a follicle by follicle basis?

I have no personal experience with SRS or SRS preparation and your advice to wait a year or two seems to make great sense (for cases where electrolysis is desired/required) given not only that you had firsthand experience, but also my general impression that electrolysis requires a hair to be present in order for an electrologist to find and zap its follicle, and given a follicle usually requires several if not many such zaps before it is destroyed. The implication is that electrolysis requires hair growth for follicles to be found and zapped several times over a period of time.

It makes sense to avoid assuming a clear area after a few electrolysis sessions means all follicles in that area have been destroyed. Depending, they likely will not have been. Only time will tell, hence waiting a year or two.

... or so I assume... correct me if I'm missing something else. I wanted to chime in because I think it's worthwhile to remember that, over time, mileage is gained in a battle against follicles using electrolysis... just that its nature is such that one must remember it's on a follicle by follicle basis, and a clear area does not mean all follicles are destroyed. All while keeping in mind that destroyed follicles are actually destroyed and will no longer produce hair forever. I think that's how it works, generally.

http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm048995.htm
"... Electrolysis is considered a permanent hair removal method, since it destroys the hair follicle. It requires a series of appointments over a period of time. ..."

Quote from: warlockmaker on February 06, 2016, 07:26:06 AM
This subject upsets me. I can confirm that it is absolutely NOT necessary to have electrolysis of the lower region. Any surgeon that requires thus is barbaric. Yes, it does take more time and assistants...which means profits... to scrape the hair follicles off in surgery. But even you have electrolysis this scraping should be done. It distressing to hear over and over again it is required. Question your surgeon and you will see they will retract the requirement. It's just plain barbaric

They might retract the requirement, but its still your problem if they don't do it properly. If I were going to any surgeon that requires electrolysis (which I wouldn't), I'd have it regardless until they had a long record of doing it properly.

Quote from: Stella Sophia on February 02, 2016, 10:06:43 PM
... Is electrolysis and permanent hair removal in the genital region required for SRS? I have heard yes and no and I am thoroughly confused, any of you ladies willing to shed light on this? ...

I have no experience with SRS, but I have heard plenty from others and from surgeons at conferences to understand that it generally depends on the surgeon and his/her instructions to the patient, usually depending on the surgical techniques employed. As well, I have firsthand experience talking with a very trans-friendly electrologist who was at least aware of some of the typical requirements of various well-known surgeons. My guess is things may change over time so best to consult with your surgeon.

You can sometimes learn general details about a surgeon's approach via their website (some of the following discuss "hair")...

http://www.tmeltzer.com/ (http://www.tmeltzer.com/)
http://www.tmeltzer.com/mtf-vaginoplasty.html (http://www.tmeltzer.com/mtf-vaginoplasty.html)
http://www.tmeltzer.com/mtf-labiaplasty.html (http://www.tmeltzer.com/mtf-labiaplasty.html)

http://marcibowers.com/mtf/ (http://marcibowers.com/mtf/)
http://marcibowers.com/mtf/your-surgery/preparation/ (http://marcibowers.com/mtf/your-surgery/preparation/)

http://www.supornclinic.com/ (http://www.supornclinic.com/)
http://www.supornclinic.com/Restricted/Scheduling/protocol.aspx (http://www.supornclinic.com/Restricted/Scheduling/protocol.aspx)

I repeat bluntly it is not required. It is not desirable as unless you have had laser and electrolysis for over 3 yrs and sure it's cleared then you still need scraping.  And scraping if done right is more full proof than laser or electrolysis. Please look up the process and not the antiquated requirements. This is 2016 not the dark ages.

My surgery was Penile inversion without the scrotal flap. The penis wasn't hairy and it was stretched out before surgery so I still had over 5 inches of depth post surgical. If you have this approach, hair removal isn't needed but this is a case of checking with your surgeon because the scrotal flap may be needed for sufficient depth. 

Quote from: warlockmaker on February 06, 2016, 08:26:26 AM
I repeat bluntly it is not required. It is not desirable as unless you have had laser and electrolysis for over 3 yrs and sure it's cleared then you still need scraping.  And scraping if done right is more full proof than laser or electrolysis. Please look up the process and not the antiquated requirements. This is 2016 not the dark ages.

I don't understand why you say this so absolutely. Both Suporn and Chett state you don't need hair removal, and yet both have cases where there's vaginal hair post-op (I'd post a couple of links, but I'm not sure they are allowed). I don't know much about Dr's Preecha/Sutin but I'd assume they are much the same.

I agree that all surgeons should remove hair as part of the process, but even when they do the best that can be said is you probably don't need to remove the hair, because sometimes you find out afterwards you did. And I've no doubt it absolutely is required with some of them as they don't even bother trying.

 :police:
Okay folks. Lets please keep it civil. Thanks
Mariah

Quote from: mmmmm on February 06, 2016, 03:19:41 AM
If you choose to go to the surgeon who uses technique which  requires permanent hair removal keep in mind that neither laser or electrolysis are truly permanent

QuoteMany "permanently" removed hairs can grow back after a year or two, and isn't much that can be done later with those hairs if the hairs aren't dark in color.

Incorrect. I had electrolysis done on my face, chest and abdomen. 7-8 yrs later, no regrowth to speak of. I think you are confusing other methods of hair removal like laser with electrolysis. Electrolysis is permanent.

J Cosmet Dermatol. 2013 Jun;12(2):153-62.

"While laser hair removal (LHR) is one of the most common cosmetic procedures practiced in the world, according to the FDA, the only current permanent form of hair removal is electrolysis."

Dermatol Ther. 2008 Sep-Oct;21(5):392-401.

"Electrolysis, thermolysis, and a combination of both are three popular procedures used for epilation or permanent hair removal"

Cutis. 1990 May;45(5):319-21, 325-6.

"Electrolysis and thermolysis are popular and medically proven electrochemical and electrosurgical techniques for permanent hair removal."

Quote from: AnonyMs on February 06, 2016, 06:02:51 AM
Dr Suporn is one of the surgeons who doesn't require hair removal, but even so there are occasional reports of hair post-op. I believe its just at the entrance though, so should be easy enough to remove.

I had my SRS done with Dr. Brassard. He doesn't require hair removal BUT post-op, I have hairs inside my vagina, deep inside my vagina. I'm post-op 10 yrs. These hairs cannot be removed now. If I had to go back, I would have certainly done electrolysis, no hesitation, despite whatever pain might be present.

Quote from: warlockmaker on February 06, 2016, 08:26:26 AM
I repeat bluntly it is not required. It is not desirable as unless you have had laser and electrolysis for over 3 yrs and sure it's cleared then you still need scraping.  And scraping if done right is more full proof than laser or electrolysis. Please look up the process and not the antiquated requirements. This is 2016 not the dark ages.

My surgeon was a well-known surgeon, Dr. Brassard who insisted that electrolysis NOT be done before surgery although stating on the documents he gives to his patients, I later found out (my mistake), that hairs *may* still remain post-op. He has extensive experience doing SRS, cauterizing hair follicles and yet, despite following his recommendation, I have a significant amount of hair inside my vagina, at the entrance, in the middle and deep inside. He tried to re-cauterize them post-op, without much success. I'm 10 yrs post-op and still, the hairs remain and there is no way to remove them.

I guess he didn't scrape right, in my case? Or perhaps scraping, even if done right by an experienced surgeon is no guarantee.

Quote from: KayXo on February 06, 2016, 11:25:44 AM
Incorrect. I had electrolysis done on my face, chest and abdomen. 7-8 yrs later, no regrowth to speak of. I think you are confusing other methods of hair removal like laser with electrolysis. Electrolysis is permanent.

J Cosmet Dermatol. 2013 Jun;12(2):153-62.

"While laser hair removal (LHR) is one of the most common cosmetic procedures practiced in the world, according to the FDA, the only current permanent form of hair removal is electrolysis."

Dermatol Ther. 2008 Sep-Oct;21(5):392-401.

"Electrolysis, thermolysis, and a combination of both are three popular procedures used for epilation or permanent hair removal"

Cutis. 1990 May;45(5):319-21, 325-6.

"Electrolysis and thermolysis are popular and medically proven electrochemical and electrosurgical techniques for permanent hair removal."

I had my SRS done with Dr. Brassard. He doesn't require hair removal BUT post-op, I have hairs inside my vagina, deep inside my vagina. I'm post-op 10 yrs. These hairs cannot be removed now. If I had to go back, I would have certainly done electrolysis, no hesitation, despite whatever pain might be present.

You are confusing the fact that not every hair root treated with electrolysis is permanently destroyed. Due to various factors hair root can end up being damaged, and it can be in remission for longer periods of time. This supposedly damaged hair roots can later reheal and start to grow hair back. It can happen one year two years or later. And if I would have genital electrolysis done (which I haven't because I went to a surgeon who advise against any) I would wait a good two years after hair removal with either laser or electrolysis.

I have GCS 11/15/16 with Dr. McGinn. She will do GCS without hair removal. She recommends hair removal and will do her best to clear the follicles during surgery.

I have had my first of 6 clearing, through June. The machine is turned up very high and each follicle has a blood spot and gets a scab. I was black and blue and swollen afterwards. They use a local so you only feel the local being administered. They said I did really well because I did not scream when it was administered. My appointment was for 4 hours and it took 2.5 hours because I do not have a lot of hair there.

They clear the scrotum and 1/2 inch around the scrotum and penis.

Quote from: mmmmm on February 06, 2016, 06:24:01 PM
You are confusing the fact that not every hair root treated with electrolysis is permanently destroyed. Due to various factors hair root can end up being damaged, and it can be in remission for longer periods of time. This supposedly damaged hair roots can later reheal and start to grow hair back. It can happen one year two years or later. And if I would have genital electrolysis done (which I haven't because I went to a surgeon who advise against any) I would wait a good two years after hair removal with either laser or electrolysis.

electrolysis IS permanent, but it has to be done properly. In my experience around 1 in 5 follicles are dry or the hair is falling out and these hairs have to be zapped again when they regrow. There are different types of electrolysis (multi, single) and many different settings. Pain tolerance can be the limiting factor of the effectiveness of each session. It's hard to compare low multi needle effectiveness against a single needle on high setting.

I'm not saying what you are saying can't happen but saying electrolysis isn't permanent is just wrong.

Quote from: Serenation on February 06, 2016, 07:55:51 PM

I'm not saying what you are saying can't happen but saying electrolysis isn't permanent is just wrong.

You know if its permanent after two or three years. If you want to take chances and consider it permanent after two months, and have GRS next week , that's fine with me :)

Quote from: warlockmaker on February 06, 2016, 07:26:06 AM
This subject upsets me. I can confirm that it is absolutely NOT necessary to have electrolysis of the lower region. Any surgeon that requires thus is barbaric. Yes, it does take more time and assistants...which means profits... to scrape the hair follicles off in surgery. But even you have electrolysis this scraping should be done. It distressing to hear over and over again it is required. Question your surgeon and you will see they will retract the requirement. It's just plain barbaric

My surgeon did not require it, and told me so, but I was insistent that I wanted to get it done anyways. I know electrolysis is permanent and takes time, but while I was waiting to get up to Montreal I managed to get it all done. I was also able to go my bikini line and around the rear end, to put it in nice words.

Quote from: KayXo on February 06, 2016, 11:25:44 AM
Incorrect. I had electrolysis done on my face, chest and abdomen. 7-8 yrs later, no regrowth to speak of. I think you are confusing other methods of hair removal like laser with electrolysis. Electrolysis is permanent.

I had my SRS done with Dr. Brassard. He doesn't require hair removal BUT post-op, I have hairs inside my vagina, deep inside my vagina. I'm post-op 10 yrs. These hairs cannot be removed now. If I had to go back, I would have certainly done electrolysis, no hesitation, despite whatever pain might be present.

When I was doing the bottom electro, the tech was telling me about some post op women who have come back and asked about getting hair removed form the vaginal area. The answer was almost can't be done. They could only read a few hairs that were easy to get at, anything inside the vagina was unreachable. I like to think about it this way. It was easier to get it done with outdoor plumbing than it would be suffering with a problem and indoor plumbing.

I can't resist one final point. Electrolysis is permanent but how many times it takes to do this is never stated or guaranteed. Anyone having facial electrolysis can confirm this. Years of facial electrolysis and still every now and then a new one hair appears ...now let's translate that to the created vagina and the same case senario can occur. So at best electrolysis combined with a very effecient scraping during surgery lessens the possibility of internal hair growth and gives you a better odds.

Remember the odds of internal hair is very small with a top surgeon and the process is developing to be even better ... but despite all that has been said if you want to even minamalize the odds more then you are welcome  go thru the pain and pay put the cash.

Quote from: warlockmaker on February 06, 2016, 09:02:14 PM
... Electrolysis is permanent but how many times it takes to do this is never stated or guaranteed. ... if you want to even minamalize the odds more then you are welcome  go thru the pain and pay put the cash.

That sounds right.

Even though there's been a little back and forth here, I don't really see a big disagreement because two valid things are being said. One is that electrolysis yields permanent hair removal by permanently destroying hair follicles after such follicles have been zapped some number of times. The other is that an area cleared after an electrolysis session does not guarantee all follicles within that area have been destroyed during that particular session. I bet most electrologists would agree with the both statements.

I think it's good this thread has clarified both things, that permanent follicle destruction can be eventually achieved with electrolysis, but not guaranteed to have been achieved at a particular point in time, at least not soon after one's last session clearing an area if not longer.

If one can wait, two years doesn't sound like a bad amount of time to do so. I'm curious to hear what my electrologist says. If I were planning SRS and reading all these experiences, I'd find it helpful.

I will merely add that Brassard also says that electro can weaken the hair follicles, making it harder for him to do the surgical scraping; he recommends against it largely for that reason, because it makes his own efforts more likely to fail.

Clearly, I was one of the luckier ones who opted not to do it *and* had his surgical methods work well, though.

Quote from: warlockmaker on February 06, 2016, 09:02:14 PM
Years of facial electrolysis and still every now and then a new one hair appears

Apart from 2-3 hairs, at most, quite thin and barely noticeable, absolutely no hair regrowth to speak of in facial, chest and abdominal area 7-8 yrs after last electrolysis session.

Quoteif you want to even minamalize the odds more then you are welcome  go thru the pain and pay put the cash.

I would have and it would have been worthwhile. Plenty of hairs inside and I'm not exaggerating.

Quote from: mmmmm on February 06, 2016, 08:21:12 PM
You know if its permanent after two or three years. If you want to take chances and consider it permanent after two months, and have GRS next week , that's fine with me :)

I have to agree with mmmmm. She's not saying it's not permanent, just that it takes a few years before knowing for sure.

Quote from: Jenna Marie on February 06, 2016, 09:41:25 PM
I will merely add that Brassard also says that electro can weaken the hair follicles, making it harder for him to do the surgical scraping; he recommends against it largely for that reason, because it makes his own efforts more likely to fail.

Clearly, I was one of the luckier ones who opted not to do it *and* had his surgical methods work well, though.

Lucky you! I was his last patient before his winter Christmas vacation.

Kay : My sympathies! I was his last patient before the summer vacation *and* he'd done five surgeries that day with me as the last... but I guess he was still having a better day, or something.

(I do have one little hair about 1/8th inch outside the vaginal entrance that annoys me, but my wife has a couple in similar locations, so I figure that's reasonable.)

Quote from: Jenna Marie on February 07, 2016, 10:24:45 AM
he'd done five surgeries that day with me as the last...

I was his second surgery of the day.