Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I am really struggling with this, I want to spend my life with this person but I bonded with the guy, the man, the male, but I love the person too, for those that stayed together, how did you do it?

How did you put down your old life to start a new one with a woman?
What can I do to get over it? (and don't just say talk to a therapist), what can I do to let him, become a her? How do we do this in a neighborhood full of judgmental and in tolerate a@#%holes?

So my husband asked me to watch the Caitlin show and it just made me angry because this person has so many resources at her disposal, and her show is so *produced* its just not anything like the real world. I told him as much, it did give me some insight, but I feel like this person lives in a vacuum and I do not.

How do I embrace my new life, I don't want to start over, I don't want to be angry forever, I don't want to be that scorned, angry hen that pecks at the person they are with.

Thank you in advance for sharing your "stay together" stories

My wife is conflicted in much the same way. We both always tended to put the others happiness above our own. But now..... She knows the sad real world stats. If I don't 'explore' this avenue she just may find me hanging from a rafter in the garage. Or... I just become an even greater PITA. She often says she does not want to be a party to her own demise. Helping/encouraging me can/will lead to the dissolution of our relationship.

TBH - Dropping the T-Bomb changes everything. There are no "Do-Overs", no taking it back. It is with you forever. As a TG person you spent a lifetime barely getting a handle on what it means. An S.O. has had only milli-micro-Seconds in comparison to get up to speed. I agree that about anything "Jenner" related is about as relevant as Jerry Springer pull out the ->-bleeped-<-s episodes. A good read is Princess Warrior about a former Navy Seal. I think it does a good job capturing a lot of what we do to "Be Normal" or otherwise "Cure" ourselves

For us it's meant that he doesn't fully transition, but explores just enough to make him happy while keeping our marriage together. As of yet, we don't know all the details it entails because the journey has been less than 2 months. I made it clear from the start what I can't handle - him turning into a woman, presenting full-time or having any kind of feminazation surgeries/alterations (read: hormones producing breasts are definitely out). I have to give up a lot and so does he. But, we do that anyway - alter our expectations in order to live with someone forever.

Is your husband willing to give up some of it in order to keep your marriage mostly happy and intact? Can you live with him sometimes wearing some women's items like panties, sleepwear, shoes, and occasionally a dress at home? Is that an ideal situation for you? No, it's certainly not something you (or I) signed up for when we said 'I do,' but it's our new realities. And it's a hard pill to swallow and it leaves an acrid after taste for me on a lot of days because I'm still adjusting. Some days are better than others and I still have nights where I quietly cry myself to sleep while thinking of the man I thought I married.

I'm not one to tell you to go see a therapist. I'm trying out talking to his gender therapist and he signed to form saying she could share his discussions with me where she thought it would help me cope better. I have an appointment again this evening. I don't know if it's helping me or not, really. It was nice to be able to be brutally honest and say things to her that I can't to him because it would be hurtful and have her tell me it's okay to feel that way this early on. I honestly don't know if I'll continue talking to her or not. I'm thinking I might just resort to keeping a private journal instead. Then I can get it out of my system in private.

The revelation that our husbands feel even remotely female is quite hard on us, especially when we're no longer that young, pretty bride we once were. Neither of us ever thought we'd be dealing with this at our age, and in several ways it's quite unfair. But, it is what it is and here we are trying to cope with a huge mess as best we can. I'm always available to listen, I'll PM you my email address in case you ever want to vent privately.

If you want a bit of background: I'm FTM, about 7 months into 'officially' transitioning, in that i was always genderqueer-ish but didn't put the trans label on it until last year, and altogether we've been together for five years. my partner is a straight cis male.

thus far we're using the fact that waiting times for treatment are slow to allow us to go slowly. Most things in transition are pretty slow, very little will happen over night or surprise you, especially if you do your research in regards to HRT etc.

Communication is the biggest factor - and independent research. my partner and i are aware of all of my options, and so i flagged up things that i'm discounting/ not interested in pursuing, and he flagged up things that concern him, and so we were able to drop a whole stack of worries pretty quickly. There are still some problems that i don't know how to fix - like coming out to our extended families etc - but i think we'll cross those bridges when we come to them. 

If you're not interested in therapists/ already got that far you could also try support groups where you could meet other trans people or spouses of in person and build a community that way, might help you to feel less alone - this is something we don't have but i wish we had. online help only goes so far P:

I know I'm coming from a complete difference place here but what is male and female really?

What's male? Sperm-making? Penis? Hairyness? Deep voice? Clothes? And how does that even remotely make up a whole person? The 'maleness' of a person is like 0.1% of who they really are in terms of how much in a person's psyche is nothing at all to do with the things that only males do. All of us - and I mean all, no matter what, male, female, trans, whatever - are still viewing the world with very similar biological mechanisms of perception and cognition.

There are males who are impotent. There are men who have lost their penis. There are men who are not particularly hairy. There are men who don't have deep voice and almost sound like women. Clothes can be taken off and do not mean anything meaningful. There are even men who through hormonal imbalance develop breasts. They're still male.

And me - I'm a transmale right? But it's still 0.1% of what makes me me. Whatever body I'm in or clothes I'm wearing or role I am playing I am still the same being.

So my advice would be to ask yourself did you love a mostly a male? Or mostly another human being who is mostly the same as we all are. How difficult is it to keep loving a person you already love?

Sure, I get the sexuality problem posed by transition. It's a puzzle with two answers - you make a go of it and see what happens or you don't. Goes for pretty much all of us in this position with a partner who is not bisexual or pansexual. But who loves labels more than people? I don't so I'll give it a try and try to make it work. If it doesn't, well, you tried.   

Quote from: partnerspossibly on March 07, 2016, 05:11:34 PM
I am really struggling with this, I want to spend my life with this person but I bonded with the guy, the man, the male, but I love the person too, for those that stayed together, how did you do it?

How did you put down your old life to start a new one with a woman?
What can I do to get over it? (and don't just say talk to a therapist), what can I do to let him, become a her? How do we do this in a neighborhood full of judgmental and in tolerate a@#%holes?

So my husband asked me to watch the Caitlin show and it just made me angry because this person has so many resources at her disposal, and her show is so *produced* its just not anything like the real world. I told him as much, it did give me some insight, but I feel like this person lives in a vacuum and I do not.

How do I embrace my new life, I don't want to start over, I don't want to be angry forever, I don't want to be that scorned, angry hen that pecks at the person they are with.

Thank you in advance for sharing your "stay together" stories

I understand your pain. The issues that you alluded to are the reasons why I'm not planning a full transition at this time. I have a wife of 8 years, & a 1 yr old daughter. I understand how much my decision would negatively effect them, even if it was the right choice for me.

To me it just comes down to a question of how much can you deal with? I'm not suicidal at the thought of not going the full transition route, but many TG women are.

It would be important to talk with your husband & voice your opinions. Let him know your feelings, & what you are & are not comfortable with.

I feel I'm about to become very unpopular, but I've been holding this back for sometime and my therapist says I need to work on expressing my thoughts and feelings better so here goes...

If we all could love the person regardless of gender, we'd all be bisexual - but we aren't, and just as you want the world to accept you for being trans, us SO's who happen to be very heterosexual, would really appreciate it if you could accept us hetero wives for what we are - women who like our men.

In that same thought, how is it acceptable for 90% of the SO hetero CIS women to be told we need to work on accepting the person we love regardless of them transitioning to the opposite gender, while in other parts of this very forum, many trans people are talking about how, for example a MtF previously was only attracted to women, but after transitioning and HRT, is now only attracted to men (or the opposite for FtMs) - no one tells them they should love the person and not the gender. This is what we call a double standard and, regardless of the situation, a double standard is just a BS way of saying I want my cake and eat it too, but you can't have both.

On the topic of gender, if gender made up such a small percentage of a person's overall persona, then why do transgender people transition? You do it because you want the world to perceive you how you perceive yourselves and you want to be happy with your life. The same holds true for many of us SO's - we like a particular gender, it's what drew us to our partner in the first place. To ask us to change is no different than telling some one who's transgender that they should tough it out - again, it's a double standard and it's wrong no matter which group gets the benefit from it.

Okay, I'm off my soap box and looking for my flame retardant underwear because I feel I'm going to need them.

Put the asbestos skivvies away, your post is fine.  :)

I think it's just as difficult for a transgender person to understand a cisgender person's point of view as when the situation is reversed. We can all learn by communicating.

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on March 14, 2016, 02:51:28 PM
Put the asbestos skivvies away, your post is fine.  :)

I think it's just as difficult for a transgender person to understand a cisgender person's point of view as when the situation is reversed. We can all learn by communicating.

Hugs, Devlyn

Exactly! The world would be such a better place if we could all stop with double standards and learn to empathize with others even if we can't fully see a situation from their perspective. Just as each person interprets art and poetry differently, we each interpret life differently - it doesn't make anyone right or wrong, it simply makes us different. How boring would the world be if we were all identical?

I totally believe in your rights. Personally , I'm lucky in the sense I've never dealt with the situation of having someone try to understand me and I don't blame anyone one for not being able to see what my conflict is , but I also totally understand it's my conflict and it's not another's responsibility to change their belief system to conform to mine. If another can that's fine , but if they can't that's totally understandable.

My situation is very different from yours, but I can commiserate completely.
The most important thing is that your 'husband' is still the same person, they are just coming into their own and becoming who they've always felt they are.
Try to see it not as starting a new life, but a changing path in your twos relationship. Things will change and be different, but that's okay!

Talk to your partner. Always listen when they need to talk. Share your feelings in a constructive and honest manner. Read as much as you can about trans* people.

If your neighborhood sucks, is there the option to move? Many larger cities have great trans* resources.

I wish you both the best :)

the problem I have with these discussions is that the partner of the person who wants to transition has equal rights to their belief system. If compromise can be worked out that's great , but if it can't there is no blame on ether party.

All relationships are different. One thing that i have learned is that love trumps even attraction. Attraction changes, love changes over time. Your desire to work to figure it out and stay together, while still to trying to understand your own feelings about all of this is commendable.

My wife and i learned strategies that first and foremost concentrated on our emotional bonds, history together and friendship. We are two very different people but when you work to focus on the parts that are in common and enjoyed and you truly act like you are on the same side, the physical part follows. It is backward from how many people do it but sometimes the backwards way is the right path.

Quote from: RobynD on March 14, 2016, 04:06:09 PM
All relationships are different. One thing that i have learned is that love trumps even attraction. Attraction changes, love changes over time. Your desire to work to figure it out and stay together, while still to trying to understand your own feelings about all of this is commendable.

My wife and i learned strategies that first and foremost concentrated on our emotional bonds, history together and friendship. We are two very different people but when you work to focus on the parts that are in common and enjoyed and you truly act like you are on the same side, the physical part follows. It is backward from how many people do it but sometimes the backwards way is the right path.

I really like what RobynD said...true love trumps even attraction....and gender for some (I am now one of these people).

But I agree with allot of what has been said...communication is certainly one of the key factors, alone with tolerance from both parties and understanding.
Again, Robyn I like how you said, work on the things that you both have in common and the physical part will follow.
:)

 :police: I would like to remind people that the rules in this section of the site are a bit different. This is a place for the SOs and we are guest. It is for the SOs to explore their feelings free of pressure from others. At the top of this section is a sticky placed by Susan. The link will take you to it and the quoted text is the content.  :police:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,59.0.html

Quote from: Susan on May 23, 2005, 11:36:10 PM
This forum is primarily intended as a place Significant others can go to in order to seek support from each other. While I do not block the posting by the transgendered I would ask that as much as possible you respect this as a seperate area for them. If they have a question and you can answer it in a neutral manner feel free to respond. This is a place for facts and good information and not for advocacy.

Quote from: jamiej on March 14, 2016, 04:16:17 PM
I really like what RobynD said...true love trumps even attraction....and gender for some (I am now one of these people).

But I agree with allot of what has been said...communication is certainly one of the key factors, alone with tolerance from both parties and understanding.
Again, Robyn I like how you said, work on the things that you both have in common and the physical part will follow.
:)

Seven years in and I can say without a doubt only one thing has allowed my wife and I to still be together. It is communication. She often love to break out into song "What's love got to do with it...". And she is right. Love is just the foundation.

I often like to remind people that us trans folks spent the better part of an entire life Barely getting a handle on it. An SO has mere milli-Seconds in comparison to get up to speed. Even, as in my case, a wife who knew from day one some 30 years ago I had gender issues and my whole history

The main issue I would say for a woman would be her dealing with this:

I fell in love with this man and invested "X" (time/years) with him.  we may/may not have "X"# children.  He LIED to me all this time and all those years I have wasted that I could have been with someone who was actually meant for me.

I came to this assumption after seeing it happen to a transgender person I know.  Her wife is very bitter and filled with hate.  I had to tell her that this is probably what is going on in her head. 

However, in many cases I have noticed that these are long relationships that started during the years which no one in their right mind would ever even speak the word "Transgender".  It didn't exist.

Men and women were socially forced to live a lie.  Yes a LIE.  I tend to think religious upbringing had a lot to do with it also.  Given the time and circumstances, it was to them what they felt was the right thing to do.

Are you worried he will transition and leave you for a man?  Does all of this make you feel like a failure or less of a woman?  This is something you both need to discuss. 

Now society has had far more exposure- thanks to those brave enough to stand up and be heard.  These situations are hopefully going to end up fewer and farther between in society and there will be less broken hearts by either party.

If he transitions and his best friend (you) are there to support him/her throughout this, you may very well find far more happiness than you ever imagined.  There are more MtF Transgenders who become lesbians and marriages DO work out.  If you are so consumed with what others think then their opinions mattered more that your husbands.  Is that LOVE?

Quote from: maitresse sandy on March 27, 2016, 12:16:15 PM
The main issue I would say for a woman would be her dealing with this:

I fell in love with this man and invested "X" (time/years) with him.  we may/may not have "X"# children.  He LIED to me all this time and all those years I have wasted that I could have been with someone who was actually meant for me.

I came to this assumption after seeing it happen to a transgender person I know.  Her wife is very bitter and filled with hate.  I had to tell her that this is probably what is going on in her head. 

However, in many cases I have noticed that these are long relationships that started during the years which no one in their right mind would ever even speak the word "Transgender".  It didn't exist.

Men and women were socially forced to live a lie.  Yes a LIE.  I tend to think religious upbringing had a lot to do with it also.  Given the time and circumstances, it was to them what they felt was the right thing to do.

Are you worried he will transition and leave you for a man?  Does all of this make you feel like a failure or less of a woman?  This is something you both need to discuss. 

Now society has had far more exposure- thanks to those brave enough to stand up and be heard.  These situations are hopefully going to end up fewer and farther between in society and there will be less broken hearts by either party.

If he transitions and his best friend (you) are there to support him/her throughout this, you may very well find far more happiness than you ever imagined.  There are more MtF Transgenders who become lesbians and marriages DO work out.  If you are so consumed with what others think then their opinions mattered more that your husbands.  Is that LOVE?

From your introduction post I'm assuming you're with a trans person who has transitioned and you were gender flexible enough for that to work for you and your partner. Congratulations! No really, I'm happy for you. However, just as some are comfortable staying with a woman and moving into a lesbian relationship, some of us just don't swing that way. It doesn't make our choices wrong, it makes them different. I don't think you or anyone else has the right to judge us as being in the wrong or saying we don't truly love our partners. Many people who still love each other split up for many reasons because love isn't always enough, sometimes there are irreconcilable differences.

In case you haven't guessed, I'm one of those gender inflexible folks. I love my husband dearly, and it would be heartbreaking if we split up, but there's no way I would stay married if he ever transitioned to a woman because I'm not a lesbian and I could never love another woman in the way I love a man. Some of us just aren't wired that way. I think it's wonderful that were all different because if every person were the same, the world would be very boring indeed.

Quote from: JoanneB on March 07, 2016, 07:53:51 PM
TBH - Dropping the T-Bomb changes everything. There are no "Do-Overs", no taking it back. It is with you forever. As a TG person you spent a lifetime barely getting a handle on what it means. An S.O. has had only milli-micro-Seconds in comparison to get up to speed. I agree that about anything "Jenner" related is about as relevant as Jerry Springer pull out the ->-bleeped-<-s episodes. A good read is Princess Warrior about a former Navy Seal. I think it does a good job capturing a lot of what we do to "Be Normal" or otherwise "Cure" ourselves

That summarizes it nicely. For me it is very hard to get my head around what this is, and why it happening. I won't turn to Jerry Springer for answers...

My husband (my female husband), has been seeing a therapist and they have concluded that he really is transgender, its not made up. Its real. My partner I now see differently. I don't see him masculine the way I used to and it upsets me. I've lost something I can't get back and that makes me angry and sad for the loss. I loved Him. Now I'm trying to love someone new.  I have accepted that he is transgender.  I will stay with her as long as they don't start talking about men, or I find them flirting with others, or worse. I'm their partner I'm #1 its where I draw the line.  I need to be loved, I need to know there is sex in my future, I need to know there is a future. I need to know he (she) is NOT throwing away our future, by getting fired from her job. I need to know they are dedicated to me and this isn't their way of saying "I want out of the relationship so I can be with guys".

I told my wife I was trans 13 years ago before we were married.  She was OK as long as I was closeted.  If you are transsexual and desire alignment hormonally and and surgically, it's torture not doing it.  After about 8 years of marriage, I declared I had to transition.  My wife (now ex) is straight.  I could no easier make her bi or gay than she could keep me living as a male.  If you are both willing to do therapy, I'd do it.  Lord knows, I would have done anything to save my marriage.  I still love her and she loves me, but we're better as friends and as co-parents and can support each other emotionally now without the pressure of making a square peg fitting into a round hole.  My heart goes out to the transitioners and to the wives who transition with them.  It's not easy on either side.

Quote from: PrincessButtercup on March 14, 2016, 02:42:02 PM
I feel I'm about to become very unpopular, but I've been holding this back for sometime and my therapist says I need to work on expressing my thoughts and feelings better so here goes...

If we all could love the person regardless of gender, we'd all be bisexual - but we aren't, and just as you want the world to accept you for being trans, us SO's who happen to be very heterosexual, would really appreciate it if you could accept us hetero wives for what we are - women who like our men.
[...]
On the topic of gender, if gender made up such a small percentage of a person's overall persona, then why do transgender people transition? You do it because you want the world to perceive you how you perceive yourselves and you want to be happy with your life. The same holds true for many of us SO's - we like a particular gender, it's what drew us to our partner in the first place. To ask us to change is no different than telling some one who's transgender that they should tough it out - again, it's a double standard and it's wrong no matter which group gets the benefit from it.
[...]

I have to agree with this, and it's where I part ways with the political left's supposed tolerance. (Not going into politics though.) If there's no real difference between man and woman, and no real difference between masculine and feminine, we could all save ourselves a lot of heartache and soul-searching and just wear different clothing.

Doesn't work that way, of course.  :-)
I think most of us like the differences, too. And I believe that there's a biological reason, and we just don't yet know it. But in new-agey terms, people look for a complement. Masculine wants feminine, and vice-versa, for the most part. Like poles of a magnet, North and South come together, but same poles repulse each other.

Quote from: PrincessButtercup on March 14, 2016, 02:42:02 PM
In that same thought, how is it acceptable for 90% of the SO hetero CIS women to be told we need to work on accepting the person we love regardless of them transitioning to the opposite gender, while in other parts of this very forum, many trans people are talking about how, for example a MtF previously was only attracted to women, but after transitioning and HRT, is now only attracted to men (or the opposite for FtMs) - no one tells them they should love the person and not the gender. This is what we call a double standard and, regardless of the situation, a double standard is just a BS way of saying I want my cake and eat it too, but you can't have both.

I believe (getting on my own asbestos undies) that this is a very feminine mindset. This is the wrong place for details, but it's why traditionally, women were seen as more child-like even when grown.
I agree it is NOT acceptable.
That also goes against there being an actual double standard, though. E.G., in divorce, if he was cheating, he's a horrible person, selfish, philanderer...    If she was cheating? He couldn't get the job done at home, she was unfulfilled, she had to meet her needs...  Etc.  She is forgiven, he is berated, no matter what. I find that disgusting, too.
I have a certain caveat to it, though, in that people DO change. When I met the current girlfriend, she knew about me before she moved in (a decade ago now.) She threw out my hormones when we moved. She's not comfortable with any feminine behavior on my part.
Well, she's gotten decidedly more aggressive and controlling.
So, the converse there is: Should I, who am attracted to a feminine complement (and born male), simply keep supporting her indefinitely? I slept in a separate room for a while, because I was worried she'd try to harm me. But she wants a MANLY man...  So, what, was I supposed to hit her? (Man = bad guy, right away, right?) 

I can empathize and sympathize with you, but politely point out that it can happen even without this major upset. If my woman decides she wants to be a woman, but act like a man, I believe I have the right to negotiate the end of the relationship. I believe she does, too, but doubt her efficacy in seeing or questioning the situation. Your mileage may vary; you're here, asking questions, and that will help. You mentioned a therapist, but there are good and bad ones out there. Might be worth it to look around again...  And keep venting, definitely, and mostly in private (includes here, but the privacy thing is a big deal - keep your identity a secret on the home PC, that sort of thing. I had a time period where my emails, phone, facebook, etc, were all hacked because she was bored. So you can hopefully understand I am a bit cautious, and I advise you from experience.)

Quote from: PrincessButtercup on March 14, 2016, 02:42:02 PM
Okay, I'm off my soap box and looking for my flame retardant underwear because I feel I'm going to need them.

You and me both, miss! ;-) 
This is a very rough topic. At 40, I'm still clueless, and find all sorts of reasons I SHOULD have...  If Only... And my woman is there, I keep telling her she's an FTM in all but actions... :) Maybe I'm biased, I've sent her links to support forums and the like, and her answer is always to see a pshrink. For ME, mind, bot for her, she's not been going for a VERY long time. (Longer than we've been together.)
But if you want to be bossy, nasty, aggressive...  And you know I am who and what I am, and why (assaults, abuse) - do you REALLY want to be in my face all the time?  :-\
OK, she's said she's straight, and if I transition, she's gone. But since she's acting this way...   How is it a threat, you understand my meaning?

For you, all I can do is empathize, offer an ear.  And since I'm sort of on the other side of the fence here, I don't even know if that's a help. But you're hardly alone, and I think most of us, on either side, would be happy to help.

Please feel free to vent, if it helps you.
-Dianna