Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Can someone please explain it to me? Thank you.

Between male and female there is a whole spectrum. Non-binary is anyone who fits on this spectrum between the binary genders because they don't fully identify with either male or female. It is actually technically even two different scales, one masculine and one feminine, where the percentages individually range from 0-100 and don't have to add up to 100 when combined.


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Means not being 100% male or female. Gender is a spectrum with male on one end of a straight line and female on the other. In the middle is a mix of nb identies. There's agender were people feel like they don't really have a gender (I'm slightly this way), gender queer were people feel male one day or female the next and third gender people were people feel they're a third gender entirely. These are the main 3 although there may be more terms I'm yet to learn.
People who are nb tend to go by the pronouns 'they/there' or some don't mind being called binary pronouns if they feel like they're close to being male or female on the gender line. I only feel like I'm roughly 10% agender and the rest male so don't mind if people call me him or his.
There's no exact way nb people dress. If you're AMAB it doesn't mean you also like wearing skirts as well as trousers. You're gender expression could be masculine but your gender identity is nb. Vice versa if you're AFAB.
Hope this made it clearer.

Well binary implies there is two poles male and female people have to identify with.

Non binary people feel they do not identify as strictly one of the two.

There are additionally genderfluid people ... alternating between the poles ...


*hugs*

Terms
Non binary= They don't fit into the stereotypical male or female. There are several gender identities under that umbrella. That umbrella is under a bigger one called "Trans umbrella". Not every non-binaries think they are trans.

Gender fluid= They identify themselves as female, male and both. Sometime they has man-day, woman-day and mix-day where they brings a day as a gender. They think they are more than one gender.

Agender= Don't identify themselves as any specific genders.

Demi boy/Demi girl= Identify themselves as a girl or a boy, but not 100%. Often they have several gender identities.

It means freedom.  And total experience of all of who you are...simultaneously...nothing repressed.

No box and limitless.  Nb is global.  Total genderfree.  Nothing restricted, nothing fake.

Binary isnt fake either.

Depends who you are.

Be everything.

In my case, I'm transitioning to live as a woman (I don't plan on mixing male and female presentation), but I consider myself non-binary because I don't identify as any gender.  I'm transitioning because I'm really sick of having to be seen as male, and living as a woman (even living as a woman whom many people will deride as being not really a woman) seems preferable.

While I don't identify as a woman, I have identified with women all my life.

Quote from: Asche on March 12, 2016, 11:57:56 AM
In my case, I'm transitioning to live as a woman (I don't plan on mixing male and female presentation), but I consider myself non-binary because I don't identify as any gender.  I'm transitioning because I'm really sick of having to be seen as male, and living as a woman (even living as a woman whom many people will deride as being not really a woman) seems preferable.

While I don't identify as a woman, I have identified with women all my life.

Why do you want to live as a woman, look like a woman etc. if you're non-binary? Why doesn't you want to live as a man, gender neutral or something non-binary if you're a non-binary? I'm just curious. I'm still new to non-binary. I thought non-binaries lives and dress up as non-binaries.

Quote from: Sebby Michelango on March 12, 2016, 12:28:42 PM
Why do you want to live as a woman, look like a woman etc. if you're non-binary? Why doesn't you want to live as a man, gender neutral or something non-binary if you're a non-binary? I'm just curious. I'm still new to non-binary. I thought non-binaries lives and dress up as non-binaries.

Hey Sebby. Don't want to hijack your post but my experience may help. For me I feel 10% agender and the rest male (roughly). I didn't really accept I liked feminine stuff until I accepted I was a trans man and decided to take T (which i wanted to do because i hate referred to as female and want facial hair and my body to be somewhat male). I probably would be happier if I changed my social title from Mr to the gender neutral version (Mx) or if people used gender neutral pronouns for me. But not wanting to stand out as trans I can live with people thinking I'm fully male.

Quote from: Sebby Michelango on March 12, 2016, 12:28:42 PM
Why do you want to live as a woman, look like a woman etc. if you're non-binary? Why doesn't you want to live as a man, gender neutral or something non-binary if you're a non-binary?

I already explained why I don't want to live as a man.  I did it for ~60 years only because I didn't see a realistic alternative.  I'm still traumatized by the male socialization I suffered through as a child, and am alienated by masculinity and by the way men relate to men (and to women, for that matter) as men.  Ever since I found out I could be trans and really could transition to female without feeling like "a woman in a man's body" the idea of transitioning has attracted me.

Living as a "gender neutral" has the problem that nobody knows just what that looks like.  Every interaction with anybody (except maybe people who I'm around a lot) would involve having to educate the other person about my flavor of "gender neutral," probably unsuccessfully, not to mention people who refuse to deal with it -- basically, social bushwhacking.  I've already spent too much of my life fighting, I don't want to spend my few remaining years living in a way that would make daily life a constant struggle.

Besides, I like women and would like to relate to them the way I see women relating to other women.

I don't see why not feeling that my inner self is "female" (or male, either) forces me to live any particular way, or to not live any particular way.

Quote from: Sebby Michelango on March 12, 2016, 12:28:42 PM
I'm still new to non-binary. I thought non-binaries lives and dress up as non-binaries.

"Live and dress up as non-binary" doesn't actually make any sense.  It's like saying you're going to buy some paint that's the color "not-red."  Non-binary doesn't say what someone is, it says what they aren't.

As mentioned up-thread, androgyny is a kind of non-binary gender.  So is gender fluid (which is not the same as androgynous.)  So is neutrois or agender -- identifying as neither gender.  They are all different.

For that matter, just because someone is, say, binary (trans) female doesn't mean they have to live as a woman.  Identity is not presentation.

Quote from: Sebby Michelango on March 12, 2016, 12:28:42 PM
Why do you want to live as a woman, look like a woman etc. if you're non-binary?

Because my gender experience is non-binary but my preferred gender presentation is female. There are many dimensions to gender. Refer to https://www.susans.org/2016/01/31/the-many-faces-of-gender/

For me, I don't want to make people uncomfortable. I want people to enjoy dealing with me, not feel that their view of gender as a binary is challenged by my very presence.

Non-binary simply means one does not identify as locked in to either side of the binary scale between feminine and masculine.  This means that presentation can be any mix of either.  They, them, theirs...

I have lived presenting as non binary for decades, but have always identified as female.  This means that I have not chosen to act in compliance with either end of the spectrum.  I have a friends who are truly non-binary and they do not fit into any neat box.

I generally see myself as "a guy who happens to be female". I am mostly masculine and always have been but my experiences as a female have definitely shaped me. As a child, I was a tomboy and loved it when people mistook me for a boy... yet I also had friends who were girls and I did "girl" activities with them. Puberty was a cruel wake up call for me and my mom often reminds me how I hated everything "girl or woman" throughout my teens. As an adult, I am happiest when I can be "one of the guys". As long as I have that, I can handle being female.

I also consider myself "a guy who happens to be a mom" and I wouldn't change that for the world. On the other hand, as a stay home parent for the past six years, I feel trapped in a very female world and my gender disphoria is worse than ever.
I would be deleriously happy if I woke up tomorrow with a male body... but since I won't, I just try to go about my life being free to express my gender as I see fit...
I would really like top surgery though. I have large breasts and have wanted top surgery since I hit puberty.

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What arice posted sounds very much like me. I'm still confused though. So this makes us non binary because we do things both sexes do but prefer to look like just one?
Like I don't care if you use he or she towards me (they confuses me so I probably question who the other person you were referring to is) but I see myself in a guy's body but for the most part I don't feel like a guy or a girl. I just feel like Heather but I'd feel extremely uncomfortable if I had to wear womans clothing because I'm not a dude but I'd feel really offended if you didn't hold the door open for me since I'm a lady.
I want to be seen as a guy but there's to many aspects of being a girl that I like. Like girl nights! So since I want both worlds does that mean I'm non binary and not trans?
Gender is so confusing!

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Quote from: haeden on March 13, 2016, 08:38:01 AM
What arice posted sounds very much like me. I'm still confused though. So this makes us non binary because we do things both sexes do but prefer to look like just one?
Like I don't care if you use he or she towards me (they confuses me so I probably question who the other person you were referring to is) but I see myself in a guy's body but for the most part I don't feel like a guy or a girl. I just feel like Heather but I'd feel extremely uncomfortable if I had to wear womans clothing because I'm not a dude but I'd feel really offended if you didn't hold the door open for me since I'm a lady.
I want to be seen as a guy but there's to many aspects of being a girl that I like. Like girl nights! So since I want both worlds does that mean I'm non binary and not trans?
Gender is so confusing!

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Here is a nice graph showing that transgender includes non binary, its a huge umbrella :
www.transaustin.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/transumbrella.jpg

Well transgender means gender variant behaviour...
so imo its not always necessary to put another label on it ... if you feel like something one day and different on another ...
I'd say just enjoy.

And people can identify as woman or man without feeling female or male all of the time .
You might ask if you would be a bit more happy if your body would be a bit more male ...
and how you would like to be perceived ...


*hugs*

Quote from: Asche on March 12, 2016, 03:40:19 PM
I already explained why I don't want to live as a man.  I did it for ~60 years only because I didn't see a realistic alternative.  I'm still traumatized by the male socialization I suffered through as a child, and am alienated by masculinity and by the way men relate to men (and to women, for that matter) as men.  Ever since I found out I could be trans and really could transition to female without feeling like "a woman in a man's body" the idea of transitioning has attracted me.

Living as a "gender neutral" has the problem that nobody knows just what that looks like.  Every interaction with anybody (except maybe people who I'm around a lot) would involve having to educate the other person about my flavor of "gender neutral," probably unsuccessfully, not to mention people who refuse to deal with it -- basically, social bushwhacking.  I've already spent too much of my life fighting, I don't want to spend my few remaining years living in a way that would make daily life a constant struggle.

Besides, I like women and would like to relate to them the way I see women relating to other women.

I don't see why not feeling that my inner self is "female" (or male, either) forces me to live any particular way, or to not live any particular way.
"Live and dress up as non-binary" doesn't actually make any sense.  It's like saying you're going to buy some paint that's the color "not-red."  Non-binary doesn't say what someone is, it says what they aren't.

As mentioned up-thread, androgyny is a kind of non-binary gender.  So is gender fluid (which is not the same as androgynous.)  So is neutrois or agender -- identifying as neither gender.  They are all different.

For that matter, just because someone is, say, binary (trans) female doesn't mean they have to live as a woman.  Identity is not presentation.

Ok. So you're trans feminine? A mix between trans woman and non-binary? I've heard some people says it's possible to be many difference types of gender. You can be gender queer, non-binary and trans woman at the same time including tons of other gender identity.

We have non-binaries like agender, gender queer, gender fluid etc. I get very fast confused and it takes a lot of times for me to learn news things.

Don't beat up on me if I miss something here but my concept of non binary is when something falls out of the "normal binary CIS identity". Some of the things that might included are.

Your perception of your bodies gender fails to match your body.
The image you wish to present to the public fails to match your birth gender.
Your social gender fails to match your mental gender.
Your social gender fails to match your physical gender.
You might ID with both genders.
You might not be either gender.

Quote from: Rp1713 on March 11, 2016, 03:18:30 PM
It is actually technically even two different scales, one masculine and one feminine, where the percentages individually range from 0-100 and don't have to add up to 100 when combined.

I absolutely love this thought!  Two disparate but intertwined scales, perhaps like the the treble and bass dials on a stereo. 

I will have to keep thinking about this analogy, but somehow I think RuPaul is like a 97 on the volume scale.  ;-)

Quote from: BreeD on March 14, 2016, 06:41:40 AM
I absolutely love this thought!  Two disparate but intertwined scales, perhaps like the the treble and bass dials on a stereo. 

I will have to keep thinking about this analogy, but somehow I think RuPaul is like a 97 on the volume scale.  ;-)

It's a very freeing to think of things this way! It gives you the ability to express both sides of yourself the way you see fit.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160315%2Fadb608d633345eaa48f96420a98d77c7.jpg&hash=b85d430a4b2b9e9e07d662f684683ce70b59355e)


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Quote from: Rp1713 on March 15, 2016, 08:26:07 AM
It's a very freeing to think of things this way! It gives you the ability to express both sides of yourself the way you see fit.

But what if you have more than two sides?

Or what if you don't have sides?  (Say, you're a string.  No, I'm a frayed knot.)

The problem with trying to come up with a way to see non-binary is that no matter what model or scheme you think up, there are going to be some that don't fit.  After all, non-binary simply means you don't fit the binary model, it doesn't say anything about what model you do fit.

But you know what?

You don't have to understand.

Let me repeat that.

You don't have to understand.

Just as cis people don't have to understand what it's like to be trans, they just need to be willing to respect us, and listen to us when we say how they can respect us -- e.g., names, pronouns, etc.

In the same way, binary people don't have to understand what it's like to be non-binary, especially since there's no one way to be non-binary, anyway; every non-binary person is non-binary in their own way.  They just need to see each non-binary person as an individual and accept that what one person says about themself may not apply to the next non-binary person they meet.  They need to respect each individual's way of describing themself, and not insist on pinning their own labels and characterizations and assumptions on the NB.

Quote from: suzifrommd on March 12, 2016, 07:58:37 PM
Because my gender experience is non-binary but my preferred gender presentation is female. There are many dimensions to gender. Refer to https://www.susans.org/2016/01/31/the-many-faces-of-gender/

For me, I don't want to make people uncomfortable. I want people to enjoy dealing with me, not feel that their view of gender as a binary is challenged by my very presence.

That pretty much describes me.

Quote from: Asche on March 15, 2016, 01:58:27 PM
But what if you have more than two sides?

Or what if you don't have sides?  (Say, you're a string.  No, I'm a frayed knot.)

The problem with trying to come up with a way to see non-binary is that no matter what model or scheme you think up, there are going to be some that don't fit.  After all, non-binary simply means you don't fit the binary model, it doesn't say anything about what model you do fit.

But you know what?

You don't have to understand.

Let me repeat that.

You don't have to understand.

Just as cis people don't have to understand what it's like to be trans, they just need to be willing to respect us, and listen to us when we say how they can respect us -- e.g., names, pronouns, etc.

In the same way, binary people don't have to understand what it's like to be non-binary, especially since there's no one way to be non-binary, anyway; every non-binary person is non-binary in their own way.  They just need to see each non-binary person as an individual and accept that what one person says about themself may not apply to the next non-binary person they meet.  They need to respect each individual's way of describing themself, and not insist on pinning their own labels and characterizations and assumptions on the NB.

I couldn't agree with you more. This is kind of how I feel about myself, or atleast how Ive been trying to look at things. But I guess even just looking at it as different scales for example female male and other (or something to that affect perhaps agender would work better) it helps me better understand things better in comparison to the old model of female on one end male on the other with a spectrum in between. At the end of the day however, I completely agree that the whole idea behind non-binary is not really fitting into to any scale or box, and that you don't have to understand. I wasn't trying to box in or offend anyone, I just think when someone truly doesn't understand but wants try, the aforementioned way of thinking at least helps shed some light. Really all there is to it is being and accepting yourself when you think about it though!


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Wow, I wasn't expecting 21 replies. I guess I'm now well educated on non-binary!