Community Conversation => Transgender talk => Topic started by: PeterSteele on April 09, 2016, 10:33:02 PM Return to Full Version

Title: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: PeterSteele on April 09, 2016, 10:33:02 PM
I'm 5 ft 6..Hopefully still growing but based upon height calculators it said I'll only reach to 5 ft 8..I have too much height dysphoria. What about you? ???
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: Dena on April 09, 2016, 10:44:15 PM
Welcome to Susan's Place. I am assuming that you are a FTM. If you reach 5'8" that's not a bad hight. I am 6'2" and considered tall so the 6 inch difference would still put you near a normal male hight. I learned a long time ago not to be uncomfortable with my hight because people don't really pay attention to it. For a while I wore 3 inch heals which really ran my hight up but even at that hight, people might admire my hight once in a while but not often. You need to be proud of what you become and never let anybody tell you that you shouldn't be.

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Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: kittenpower on April 09, 2016, 10:47:52 PM
I'm 6ft tall, and sure I would like to be 5'6 or so, but I'm happy with my overall presentation.
Title: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: arice on April 09, 2016, 11:04:10 PM
About 5'8".

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Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: arice on April 09, 2016, 11:07:16 PM
I am 5'8". When I was young I dreamed of being 6' and androgynous... needless to say it didn't happen...
On the other hand, I long since got over that height disphoria.
I am taller than the cis men in my family so I can't complain... especially since the other females are petite.

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Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: Dana60 on April 09, 2016, 11:22:05 PM
163cm, which I think is around 5' 4"


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Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: purplewuggybird on April 09, 2016, 11:46:50 PM
I wish I were shorter by a few inches but honestly it's not a dysphoric element. The girl I'm friends with who is 4' 11" (high school) doesn't understand me


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Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: Ms Grace on April 10, 2016, 12:09:15 AM
You had posted this question twice, no cross posting please. I have moved the posts from the second post to here and have also moved that poll to here as well.

As for me, 6'3"... while I wish I was about 4" shorter I'm used to it and most people don't even seem to notice.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: Katja69 on April 10, 2016, 12:53:53 AM
6'3" (190.5 cm).  Nose bleed section, ceiling fans make me nervous, low doorways and upper kitchen cabinets give me mild concussions (sometimes), lower kitchen cabinets make me dizzy when standing up.  In all seriousness, I always wished I was shorter, however height is might (a ham radio term) so make the most of the best assets you have and; as they say, "rock it."
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: ryokohimura on April 10, 2016, 01:30:01 AM
At 5' 7", it's not so much my height as a lot of other things. I always found it strange that of all the things that have bothered me and do bother me, my height isn't one of them. It got weird for a bit, but that passed by the time I was 15.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: JLT1 on April 10, 2016, 09:30:55 AM
Hi,

5'8" is a good height.  One can find clothes easily and one can find partners easily.  Its big enough to get respect.

Me, I'm  6" 1 and 3/4.  My inseam, for center to ankle bone is 37". As a guy, I looked a little weird. As a woman, it seems desirable. Its a pain finding clothes.....

The key for both of us is to own what and who we are.

Jen

Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: Orchid on April 10, 2016, 09:50:21 AM
I'm 5'10 or '11. I actually enjoy my height. It's really nice being tall without having to wear heels, because I loathe wearing them. I think it's more so because I'm confident, but people always seem to be friendlier with me, and I think my height helps with that. Dunno though. Call it a hunch.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: gretchenTG on April 10, 2016, 10:23:04 AM
I am 6' 7"  I have been asked a million times how tall are you. I am usually asked at least once or twice a week at minimum. Since starting my transition I really wish I was 7-8 inches shorter.  I am happy with who I am  though.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: Kylo on April 10, 2016, 10:33:11 AM
I'm 5',5" last time I checked. Which is short-ish for a dude in this country. Any shoes tend to raise that an inch.

My mother is shorter than this and my father is very tall, so I figured I came out somewhere in the middle. It's an average height for a female here, which... sucks from my perspective (but at least I'm 'normal' height I guess), but on the other hand all the men on my mother's side are shorter than I am, even though they have tall fathers... so I got a bit luckier than them I guess. The thing about having a family with shorter men - you realize it's not that big a deal to them. "Short-ass" might be something you get jokingly called but that's the extent of people's interest in it. They exhaust that joke and forget it.

The shorter guys in my family didn't have a lot of interest in sports maybe because of the height thing, I don't know... instead they all became programmers and videogame designers/artists, so it never was any barrier to the career they wanted or whatever. They all had families and are happy with them. Seeing that, I don't think it's much of a concern for me. I'd like to be taller but, until we develop cyborg bodies I'm going to be 5',5".

It helps that my boyfriend is the same height as me. I didn't pick him for that reason, but it's nice not to be towered over, I admit.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: suzifrommd on April 10, 2016, 01:11:55 PM
I'm between 5-10 and 5-11. I don't really like my height. I think it gets me clocked on occasion.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: Peep on April 10, 2016, 01:47:35 PM
I'm 5'2" (ftm) I might have been taller (tall family) but i was ill as a child and i think it stunted me
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: Rachel on April 10, 2016, 04:35:22 PM
I was just measured at work and I am 6'2" inches. I was 6'3" so that is good. I remember in my teens when I hit 6' I was very upset. 
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: Deborah on April 10, 2016, 04:42:06 PM
I'm 5'11".  I'm compensating for height by making myself skinny for the first time in my life.

My father was 6'5" and if I remember right my grandmother was at least 5'10".  Even my son is at least 6'2".  So I could have ended up a lot taller.


Sapere Aude
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: autumn08 on April 10, 2016, 08:34:03 PM
When I had a physical a few months ago, I was 5' 10."

In the sense that I wish I was shorter, I experience height dysphoria. Also, the fact that I normally don't meet women who are taller than me, makes me skeptical that I will ever live as female. As long as I am honoring my needs and dictating the pace of my life though, my disadvantages don't bother me.

Though you wouldn't quite be Peter Steele (Type O Negative), 5' 8" would be a good height. I feel slightly taller than most men, and while they may feel short, from my perspective they're normal. 
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: BeverlyAnn on April 10, 2016, 10:10:35 PM
I'm 5'6" and to be honest, as a child I wanted to be taller.  Now, of course, I'm quite happy with my height and wouldn't mind an inch or two less.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: CarlyMcx on April 10, 2016, 10:44:53 PM
I am 5'7.5."  I am very happy with my height because I can find women's clothing that fits me very easily.   Just about all skinny jeans and pants I find fit me right off the rack with no alteration.

As a guy my height used to bother me because I was smaller than just about every other guy I grew up with.  As a girl, I love my height because it it just within average range for an American female.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: lindagrl on April 11, 2016, 03:50:12 AM
i'm 6'3 and am okay with it.  Wish my feet were smaller than size 10 though.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: IdontEven on April 11, 2016, 05:49:20 AM
I think I'd be more okay with my height if things like my ribcage, hands, feet, and head weren't so freaking monstrous.

Or maybe I'd feel even worse about it at that point. Who knows?
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: katiej on April 11, 2016, 06:07:23 AM
I'm 5'8" ... short-ish for a guy and tall-ish for a girl.

Back when I was trying to be a guy, I always wished I was taller. Now, I'm really glad I'm not. I can get away with heels, though I still prefer flats.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: invisiblemonsters on April 11, 2016, 10:50:58 AM
i'm 5'2" (trans man) and before transitioning, i was super insecure about my height. now since i have been on T for a few years and have had top surgery, i couldn't care less. i work with a few guys who are my height, maybe an inch or two taller. no one says anything generally but i will have customers who sometimes joke about my height when i help them lift heavy things because i guess i don't look like i can because of my height, but that doesn't bug me because i get it. i'm short and i'm lifting a thing that weighs more than i do and is bigger than i am half the time. also being in college, especially for what i am in college for, i tend to be the shortest guy in my program. it doesn't bug me and i still can do what the other taller guys can do with no issues. it also doesn't hinder my ability with women, because i know some trans guys can be super insecure about that and dating. the girl i'm currently seeing is 5'7" and no one stares at us or looks at us weird. if they did, i don't notice because i don't care. it took me a super long time to be confident and like myself and my body so i won't let something i can't change like my height make me feel crappy about myself.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: Tristyn on April 11, 2016, 03:49:17 PM
Quote from: PeterSteele on April 09, 2016, 10:33:02 PM
I'm 5 ft 6..Hopefully still growing but based upon height calculators it said I'll only reach to 5 ft 8..I have too much height dysphoria. What about you? ???

At least you're taller than me. I am only 5'4". Every time I go to the grocery store and try to reach for food at the top shelf, I look around to make sure no one is watching and then stand on my tippy toes like some ballerina to reach the food. I fear that a cis male would embarrass me by getting the food for me as if to say, "Dude, I'm like over-towering you!" So yeah, I feel ya, man.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: lisarenee on April 11, 2016, 05:41:53 PM
6'0" - I wish I was shorter. Absolutely, no more than 5'8" (135 lbs), though I would prefer under 5'4" (110 lbs). When I am with a guy, I want to be able to look up (not down) at him when we're dancing, kissing, etc...I want for him to be able to easily pick me up and carry me (less height means you can also be lighter).
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: IdontEven on April 11, 2016, 06:02:14 PM
Quote from: lisarenee on April 11, 2016, 05:41:53 PM
6'0" - I wish I was shorter. Absolutely, no more than 5'8" (135 lbs), though I would prefer under 5'4" (110 lbs). When I am with a guy, I want to be able to look up (not down) at him when we're dancing, kissing, etc...I want for him to be able to easily pick me up and carry me (less height means you can also be lighter).

Maybe we should move to Norway. They're taller than in the US on average, I'm told. Dunno about the picking up thing, but the rest could work!
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: JoanneB on April 11, 2016, 08:55:48 PM
Years ago when I was a good 6ft tall it was also an era where the average height for women was 5'5"  Having been a big target most of my young life the last thing I wanted to do was to "Stand Out". Something a 6ft tall woman in that day was NOT going to do.

So I gave up on transitioning....

For about 30 some years. I am now an inch closer to my "Goal Height" of 5'8 and seems like a lot of women these days hit 6ft or more. A girl friend of mine was 6ft. and not to thrilled over it. Her brothers were giants. Her older sister was only 5'5!

My height bothers me very little these days. Compared to being out in the real world as the real me it is just background noise
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: Elis on April 12, 2016, 03:46:25 AM
My height does bother me. I'm only 5"5 and 3/4. I hope that on T I'll at least reach just over 5"6 as that's considered more of a 'normal' male height. I try not to let it bother me but I really feel inferior to cis guys. Also I swear girls are getting taller. Each time I walk past a bunch of girls from the local secondary school they're all taller than me :/. Makes me wonder if in the future I'll be considered a midget because the population seems to be getting taller.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: BirlPower on April 12, 2016, 06:39:36 AM
I'm 5' 3". As a guy I always wanted to be taller. I don't meet many guys shorter than me and plenty of women are taller. I've never let it bother me either way as I can't change it. I'm quite glad about it now though. I'm probably around average height for a girl around here. (West of Scotland)
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: MichaelaLJ1972 on April 12, 2016, 07:33:30 AM
I'm a 5'5", MTF. I'd actually love to be shorter, though my height is actually the average for women in the US. I don't know if it's just me, but I do feel as though I have a "stocky" build and too much muscle in my arms.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: Midnightstar on April 12, 2016, 09:34:00 PM
I'm around maybe 5'3 And because i know i am very short compared to some people and especially other men it doesn't necessarily get to me because I'm shorter than some men.
But it does get to me in a dysphoric way because I start to think how are other people going to perceive me being as short as I am.
However it's not really a triggering subject for me it's not even really triggering to talk about it's when I really start thinking about my shortness or getting into detail about it. Other than that it's something I can pretty easily avoid. You know Now that I'm thinking about it kind of goes along with how I'm never able to fit into masculine clothing because I'm always short and smaller then others.
(that's the thing that bothers me most)
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: Tristyn on April 12, 2016, 11:38:33 PM
Quote from: Midnightstar on April 12, 2016, 09:34:00 PM
You know Now that I'm thinking about it kind of goes along with how I'm never able to fit into masculine clothing because I'm always short and smaller then others.
(that's the thing that bothers me most)


Yes! That right there really grinds my gears too! It's very difficult for me to want to even clothes shop because of this. I always have to go to the teenage boy's section to fit anything in the men's section. I feel like the whole world can see right through me, even after being told time and time again that no one gives a dang about it! Thing is, I don't see it that way. I am super self-conscious about this also. I feel ya, man....
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: EmilyRyan on April 13, 2016, 12:02:06 AM
I'm 5'11" and I don't mind it at all
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: DarkWolf_7 on April 13, 2016, 01:37:09 PM
I would love to be six feet tall but I will have to settle for 5'9". It doesn't bother me too much since that's the average height for a guy in the US.

And I've meant plenty of people who are outside the norm, women who are taller men who are quite a bit shorter than I.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: lisarenee on April 13, 2016, 03:44:48 PM
Quote from: JoanneB on April 11, 2016, 08:55:48 PMHer brothers were giants. Her older sister was only 5'5!

My older brother is about 5'4". I think I got all the height. I remember eating out, waitresses would let him eat off the kids menu, but say I was too old. They assumed he was younger than me because of the height difference.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: Rylie M on April 16, 2016, 09:10:18 AM
5'10" here i really wish i was a few inches shorter i'm primarily french canadian 3rd generation in the us I have lots of older relatives around the 5'6" mark at our reunions I tower over almost everyone untill you get to my parents generation at least i'm not as tall as my 6'4" uncle.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: Marlee on April 16, 2016, 09:32:03 AM
I have a trans friend who is 5'4" I can remember having some slight envy. But I am fairly comfortable with my 6 foot bod :)
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: Jessie Ann on April 16, 2016, 10:10:52 AM
I am 5' 13 1/2" inches tall. (6' 1 1/2")
I am comfortable with my height although I wouldn't mind being a little bit shorter.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: WorkingOnThomas on April 16, 2016, 12:55:40 PM
5'6, but that's okay. I've always been the shortest person in my family, so being a short guy doesn't really bother me all that much actually.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: GurkyCecilia on June 12, 2016, 11:18:50 AM
I'm 6" 7/16' and it does sometimes give me dysphoria. It was worse a couple of years ago when I started hunching my back to look shorter (which gave me temporary back problems that have been reversed and my back is now as straight as a needle). But now, I feel more fine with it due to the fact that many cis women in my age group are just a little bit shorter than me.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: MisterQueer on June 12, 2016, 03:15:01 PM
At 5'3-ish and 112 lbs, I'm a small dude. I wish I was 5'7 or 5'8, but my cis brothers aren't even that height, so I don't let myself think about it. 
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: objectionyourhonour on June 12, 2016, 06:09:06 PM
5'2" FTM here. I get a great view of girls' tits.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: Angieisalone on June 13, 2016, 07:15:52 AM
I'm 5'9 and it's awful.
I'm a hulking giant
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: ghoulified g on June 13, 2016, 12:11:09 PM
I'm about 5'4" I think, around the same height as my mum but my feet are a bit bigger than hers, at least. I don't really care, there are cis men much shorter than me where I live so I'd fit in I guess xD
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: melissagirl on June 13, 2016, 01:17:02 PM
I'm 5'9. I used to have dysphoria about it, but it doesn't seem to affect that I'm just seen as a taller woman, so I'm ok with it now. Considering how height runs in my family though, I'm on the shorter side so I'm happy about that at least.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: Amber42 on June 13, 2016, 01:21:37 PM
It seems that most tall people want to be shorter and shorter people want to be taller :-)

I'm 5'11" and think I'm too tall.  Give me a magic wand and I'd be 5'7".  I think that's a perfect height.  Even with nice high heels, I wouldn't be over powering.

But we have to find happiness in whatever we are.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: ChasingAlice on June 13, 2016, 01:56:06 PM
I am 5'5 and am grateful. My shoulders and ribcage are large, but oh well.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: EmilyMK03 on June 13, 2016, 02:06:35 PM
I'm 5' 7", which is ok, but I wish I was about 3-4 inches shorter.  My mother and sister are each about 4-5 inches shorter than me.

Most of the time my height doesn't bother me, but when I'm amongst other Asian women like me, I really stick out (for example at an Asian grocery store or Asian restaurant).  Asian women are significantly shorter than me, and it's very noticeable when I'm in their company.  I feel like I'm getting clocked constantly when I'm in a heavily Asian area.

Oh well.  I guess I just have to avoid places with lots of Asians to feel better about myself, LOL.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: ChasingAlice on June 13, 2016, 04:07:26 PM
My height bothers me when I can't reach the top cabinet in the kitchen. lol
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: Sno on June 13, 2016, 04:12:09 PM
6' 4" on a good day, head and shoulders above a crowd, I get super self conscious at the theatre, or cinema for the people behind, and struggle with seating in cars, trains and planes... :(

Doubt I'd ever wear heels, I 'loom' now and feel I'd be terrifying if I were any taller.

Sno
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: SophiaBleu on June 13, 2016, 04:29:11 PM
I'm 6'1" and am fine with it.  Six inch heels? I don't know about that, but definitely some platform creepers! :D
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: sigsi on June 13, 2016, 07:17:27 PM
I'm 5'6", Neutrois/Agender but leaning more on the male side of the spectrum. I wish I was about 5'7" or 5'8" as that seems like a pretty average height for guys in my area/age range, but doubt I will get anymore height as I stopped growing around 14.
My family heights vary with most people on my mom's side being shorter while most on my dad's side are taller.
Dad is 5'9", Mom and Grandma are about 5'2", Grandpa (Mom's dad) is about 5'5", Uncle (Mom's brother) is 6', Sister is 5'4"

So I guess my height isn't too bad, and it doesn't cause me much dysphoria although I wish I was a bit taller. Interestingly enough though, when people see me in life and height comes up they are surprised I'm 5'6". Most think I'm 5'7" or 5'8", and will find someone with a similar height to compare me to. Maybe I dress tall? :P
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: Ellement_of_Freedom on June 13, 2016, 09:51:06 PM
Quote from: Angieisalone on June 13, 2016, 07:15:52 AM
I'm 5'9 and it's awful.
I'm a hulking giant
Really? You know there's a lot of cisgirls who are that height and taller.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: big kim on June 14, 2016, 02:19:41 AM
6'1 & half. Used to be 6'3" but age (58) has shrunk me. Both parents were 6 footers. being tall put me off transition in the late 70s, transitioned in 1991 eventually. I'm often asked if I'm Dutch or Scandinavian as I'm also blonde.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: Veronica J on June 14, 2016, 02:47:19 AM
I am 6ft 4 and 3/4 tall.
In part i hate it as finding clothes is tough.. on the other hand the average hieghts have def increased in Australia.
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: wolfx on June 14, 2016, 02:50:44 AM
I'm about 5' 2.5"

Which is pretty short, i'm a pretty tiny guy.
Sometimes I like it because I'm attracted to size differences and lots of guys are taller!

On the other hand, it makes me feel a little embarrassed sometimes, since again, lots of guys are much taller. It's hard to feel confident in myself sometimes when i'm surrounded by very large guys who can be pretty intimidating sometimes.

So it's situational really  ::)
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: MysteyV on June 14, 2016, 03:21:08 AM
I'm 6" 1. Honestly depends on where I am. In England people are fairly pippy but in Europe eg Holland etc I blend perfectly.

Plus the men on my father's side were all 6" 6 and the woman 6" 0 and up.

I think it may not be dysphoria but a feeling of sticking out.

Kindnesses
Victoria xx
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: 2cherry on June 16, 2016, 04:26:09 AM
Yes... have major issues with it. Sometimes I forget it, until someone rubs it into my face again: "Ur pretty tall for a woman arnt ye?"

I wonder what happens when I say that to obese people: You're pretty fat, aren't you?  I mean, why... even if I was 10 feet, who cares and why do they care, what is their motivation other than hurting someone. People suck, that's all their is to it. To relieve my dysphoria, I stay away from people. From my towering height, they're like rats, always nibbling and infecting everything that they come across with their filthy paws and beady eyes staring you down from the gutter.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ0YMsoWTTQpJDE8wJGEn4bSDaHYdWxKGMDQv2l30TmS62PWYw2)

;)
Title: Re: How tall are you and do you have Height Dysphoria about it?
Post by: Sebby Michelango on June 16, 2016, 05:43:45 AM
I'm 150 cm. :( I wished I was taller, perhaps 170 cm. 170 cm isn't so tall either, but I'm Asian, so it makes sense to not be super tall either. I wants to be in a "normal" male height, not a feminine height.
(I'm 15 when I wrote this)