Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Would you use a gender neutral bathroom if the law forced you?
Would you use the bathroom opposite your gender if the law forced you?

I use gender neutral bathrooms (single stall) when they're available now but if I can't easily find one I use the women's room.  I would continue to use it.

When I'm dressed as Cheryl the women's bathroom,when dressed as Terry the mens bathroom.

Unjust and repressive laws must always be resisted to the utmost by ALL or our free society is lost, and we enter a dark age where irrational fear and unreasoning prejudice will rule to the ultimate downfall of all. - Or to put it another way, all that is needed for evil to triumph is that good men stand idly by and do nothing!

You could put me in jail, or put me to death it would make no difference. I will NEVER pander to irrational laws made by people with barely enough brains to sign their own name. endof.

It would never happen in Oregon. But if i suddenly had to move to one of those states, i would not comply with such an immoral and unjust law.

I'm lucky in that my neighborhood is pretty gender neutral , but I'm sure as heck not using the men's restroom wearing a dress which I normally do.

My documents says female, my birth certificate says female... If they pass a law that will legally force me to use the female bathroom, I guess I will just have to use female bathroom then. I dont mind that.

Something being "the law" has never stopped me before. I don't see why I'd let it start having the effect on me.

I have yet to hear of any official panty police other than those self righteous vigilantes of video fame.  I don't expect to give ground to nonsense or bullying.  They would have a hard time moving this big girl off her throne ;D

I would use the bathroom that matches my gender identity. Any form of identification I could produce would tell you that I am male. Looking at me, you would not think I belonged anywhere near a women's restroom. I would not want to make any ladies uncomfortable, so I would neglect to follow any law that required me to use their restroom. I have never felt unsafe using the men's restroom, so I really see no point in changing it up.

I'm also not keen on gender neutral restrooms anymore (unless we're talking the only bathroom in an entire place is a single room - that's fine). I don't have a child with me or an elderly or disabled person that I'm caring for. I don't have any obvious ailments that would maybe necessitate using a single stall restroom. With all the bathroom stuff going on these days, I feel like people are a bit more paranoid about who's doing what around the bathrooms in public places and I feel like using one without an obvious need for it could open me up to harassment.

Quote from: Rejennyrated on May 24, 2016, 10:51:55 AM
Unjust and repressive laws must always be resisted to the utmost by ALL or our free society is lost, and we enter a dark age where irrational fear and unreasoning prejudice will rule to the ultimate downfall of all. - Or to put it another way, all that is needed for evil to triumph is that good men stand idly by and do nothing!

You could put me in jail, or put me to death it would make no difference. I will NEVER pander to irrational laws made by people with barely enough brains to sign their own name. endof.

Exactly and no, I would not obey it.  Why?  Because we have a duty to disobey an unjust, discriminatory law whether it's a seat on a bus or a bathroom.  This is an interesting question since it was 55 years ago today, May 24, that Georgia Congressman John Lewis was arrested in the Jackson, MS bus station for using a "white only" restroom.

The only time I use the bathroom as my birth gender is the military. But even then. I may cross that line soon enough. Well I hope anyways.
If I were forced one way or another to use a gender neutral bathroom, that the only way for me to do so would be of course by military, or if the gender neutral is the only bathroom in existence there.
If I were forced to use the men's bathrooms, again I only say this, the only one that will be able to force me is the military that I am a part of, otherwise I wouldn't care about that law, and go where my identity brings me.

Kate <3

There is no way you would get me into a male restroom when I was presenting myself as Elizabeth...That would be looking for a beating. Once I have gone full-time and my paperwork is in order then it becomes a mute point... I find the whole discussion totally stupid and driven by nothing more than ignorance. We as people share bathrooms constantly whether it be at home, public restrooms or at the local cinema. I do not have a separate bathroom in my place for cis females or cis males...I have an apparatus in which I pee into...I then wash my hands and that is the extent.

There are many places you go now where the Toilets are for both male and female..usually single stalls but no one seems to have an issue. Having been the victim of child abuse myself the idea that someone would think that I was a predator makes me sick...I just want to PEE. Thankfully Australia has not gone down that route yet.

Liz K

I don't pass well enough that i would risk it tbh

I use the one with the shortest line. Yay for being non-binary!

I use family bathrooms/gender neutral where available when I'm with my kids or feeling very ambiguous. If I have my kids with me and I don't think I pass as a man, I use the women's washroom so my kids don't have to deal with BS. If I'm alone, I use the men's room in quiet places and women's washrooms if I feel safer in them. I also go on the use the one without a line philosophy. The exception is the odd times when I am deliberately presenting as a woman, then I use the women's.

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I would because if I get arrested and charged it's almost certain I would lose my job and become unemployable.  Since that would leave me in a far worse state than I am now in it wouldn't be worth it.  Martyrdom only means something if it causes something to change.


Sapere Aude

I absolutely would obey the law and then sue the local government when they arrest me. We need some legal action on these silly laws. All my documents indicate the F marker. I have a valid birth certificate. My anatomy is female.

I WOULD use the freakin mens room to make a point. ARREST ME.

Cindi

I would use the women's still and tell them to worry about the real problems in society and to not be weird and stalk wherever I pee. I live in Newyork so it's good here.

No I wouldn't follow the law because with the way I look I'd get kicked out of the men's restroom. Its actually happened a few times lol. The first time was at this restaurant/bar that was packed and of course it was single stall bathrooms. There was a short line for the women's restroom but it was super late and I was dead tired. I see the men's restroom had like one guy waiting to go in so I plan on going in after him but another girl had the same idea as me, we both were like screw this line (while casually chatting) Both of us were kind of hesitant at first cause employees kept passing us by. So she goes in first, she had to go way more than I had to lol..After she leaves I went in but as I was going in, one of the employees caught me and was like, "the womens is right next door" I just rolled my eyes at him and went back to the line /end story :laugh: 

I have no documentation that says anything but female. Always use the woman's restrooms although once walked into the men's restroom at Walmart, several men in there and one spoke up, Miss I believe you made an error walking into the men's room, so I backed out with a smile. 

I think there is a turning point around the corner which will go our way only if we stand up to these people and laws yet remain silent and we will lose but there are enough of us to change many minds here.

I'm female. Period. Born Female according to my birth cert so until they have a chromosome test at the door of the women's bathroom, I will continue to use it.

I am not transitining.  So, easy for me to say.  Anyway...

One thing to consider about these laws is that they will remain on the books until overturned.  To get them overturned, you have to: (0) find a sympathetic lawyer ($!), (1) break the law, (2) get arrested and charged, (3) go to trial, (4) plead not guilty on the grounds that the law is unconsitutional.  Until someone does that, courts will not look at them.

By all means stay safe however you need to.  But someone has to intentionally break the law in order to do something about it. 

I'm not sure I *could* follow it without the gender-neutral option - my birth certificate says "male," my legal ID (including Social Security) says "female," and I actually switched to the women's room when men were consistently telling me I was in the wrong place. One of the things these laws never seem to take into account is that there are a lot of trans people whose legal information/chromosomes/hormones/appearance/gender identity do not all line up (which is not surprising, but the people passing these laws are not interested in logic!), leaving them with NO acceptable choices.

Nor do I think they'd want me in the women's room if I had bothered to change my BC... the fact that no one would know I was trans in that case is one of the other major flaws in the law.

Debra,

Even a chromosome test would be faulty. There are XY females as well as XX males, Klinefelter, and Turner syndromes. Lots of chromosome imbalances and other variants to it.

Kate <3

I am a strong believer in civil disobedience. It is the act that has won rights for several minority groups in the past and it will work for us too. If I got pushed to this extreme, I would suffer any consequences of an unjust law to help make things right.

Quote from: Eevee on May 25, 2016, 03:20:46 PM
I am a strong believer in civil disobedience. It is the act that has won rights for several minority groups in the past and it will work for us too. If I got pushed to this extreme, I would suffer any consequences of an unjust law to help make things right.

I am so upset at these laws that I will do anything legal to make a point. It's almost unfortunate that I live in California where this sort of thing doesn't happen. I really want to get arrested over this. ;)

I never liked public bathrooms at all and would always go to a gender neutral one if possible, even prior to being out. There didn't really seem to be an option for that on the list though. That being said, I'd do the same thing I've always done, favor the gender neutral, and use the women's if there isn't one.

I seriously doubt my state would ever pass such a law though. They're about as trans-inclusive as any could be.

Today, I am a full female and all my ID say F. Before this I would only use the female bathrooms when I felt I was dressed too feminine to use the male one ....

I know this is a very sensitive issue and my views on use of bathrooms is not the majority viewpoint. I suggest that there only be gender neutral bathrooms. They work well in the night clubs ....then we have no argument.

Quote from: suzifrommd on May 24, 2016, 10:34:44 AM
Would you use a gender neutral bathroom if the law forced you?
Would you use the bathroom opposite your gender if the law forced you?

I like using gender neutral bathrooms because other males intimidate me and the bathrooms are gross
so i'd go for the neutral bathroom if the law happened to be forced. However, i use gender neutral bathrooms anyways so it wouldn't effect me much even though i wouldn't like feeling restricted like that.

Hell no. stealth has its merits.

besides, trans people aren't as messy as cis people, and are more likely to remember to wash their hands when done! lol

This is why I feel that there is only one real and workable solution to this problem.  All public restrooms should be multi-user unisex with secure private stalls and a common wash (and other) area.

That would be the most space and cost efficient solution while providing equal access and security for everybody.

Quote from: warlockmaker on May 25, 2016, 11:06:05 PM
Today, I am a full female and all my ID say F. Before this I would only use the female bathrooms when I felt I was dressed too feminine to use the male one ....

I know this is a very sensitive issue and my views on use of bathrooms is not the majority viewpoint. I suggest that there only be gender neutral bathrooms. They work well in the night clubs ....then we have no argument.

This is certainly a viable solution in many cases. Many businesses currently have only gender neutral facilities and this is legal. It's a little difficult for schools to do this because of the cost of conversion. It is interesting to note how this issue has devolved from public accommodations to schools with children. The far right has found its niche to make a point.

If I were in transition in high school, I wouldn't want to shower with other girls. Give me a break. I would be far beyond embarrassment. Find a way for the trans student to get undressed in private. I'm sure that in each of these cases, solutions can be found to make sure everyone is happy. And that is what the DOJ is recommending.

Quote from: Katiepie on May 25, 2016, 02:25:53 PM
Debra,

Even a chromosome test would be faulty. There are XY females as well as XX males, Klinefelter, and Turner syndromes. Lots of chromosome imbalances and other variants to it.

Kate <3

True. I was merely speaking for myself. I'm an XY female =/

My gender is man, not gender neutral. Therefore I'd use the men's room.

ID me all you want, every paper will tell you I'm male. It'd take some pretty deep digging to find out my identification number has changed couple years back.

I am MtF, but am working very quickly on dressing female, but I'm not there yet.

At a minimum, I use the men's room and a stall only -- I will not use a urinal and would sooner pee my panties than use one.

These laws are totally unconstitutional.  Civil disobedience is frequently the only way to make progress on civil rights.  I pee where I will.  If it gets me arrested, I'll fight the law.

Well I identify as male. All my legal documents state that. The only city that'll know anything will be the city I graduated from, so I currently use the mens room. BUT I'll be that person to start to use the womens bathroom. Make sure a copy of my birth certificate is on me at all times. If you're going to pass a law like that it is showing me you really have no idea what's going on and it's flat out discrimination. I'll get arrested most likely, since everything but my birth certificate says male, but I'll fight the law with a stubborn attitude and an angry smile on my face.

And I dare someone to tell me that no matter what I'm still female and cop an attitude when I decide to use the womens bathroom. Just following laws and if it makes you uncomfortable, that's not my concern since you want to be uneducated.

Latrell, you are my hero.  <3

Thanks sparrow. Not trying to be, though. I just want people to see exactly what the law entails, if everyone were to be law-abiding citizens and listen. Especially since my old city is full of people who actually think that transsexual means 'man in a dress'. I'll really screw their fragile brains over and highly enjoy it as I do admit, I am an ->-bleeped-<-.

I identify as male, so I use the men's room 99.9% of the time, of course. However, when dressed as Alex, I use the women's room to avoid a major dustup.

I think people should use whatever bathroom they feel is appropriate. In general, I do not support the drafting and application of laws that anticipate criminal activity by a certain type of person or group of people, particularly if these laws are not based on scientific data.

If I'd go into the men's bathroom, the men and I'd be uncomfortable.
If I'd go into the women's bathroom, only some woman would got uncomfortable.
I don't see any reason to go into the men's bathroom, even if it was law.

   I don't care about laws but I do care about my safety. I recently had an argument on a YT video with a guy who told me that if he caught me in a women's restroom he would kill me. I reacted defiantly (and reported him to YT but nothing happened yet) but if he had been in front of me I guess I would have run as fast as possible. I also think that I would be more useful to the cause if I was not in jail so I think I would comply but not because it's a law, for my own safety and my ability to launch protests and stuff like that. I live in Canada and it's not even an issue here, in fact the governments are curently passing more and more laws and taking more actions to protect us and our rights and I never heard of no one trying to stopping us from going when we have to so seen from the outside this whole debate looks like we're going back to a time when repression and murder were the norm, pathetic. So I wish you all down there the best of luck and I hope that your politicians will eventualy come to their senses but since the religious right has so much power, won't happen tomorrow.

                    Take good care of yourselves, stay safe and keep the ball rolling. Love Rose.

Ps:    The movie is called: I Am A Girl! - Ik ben een meisje! Search for it on YT.

    The name of the guy is Joe Kehoe, here's how he starts: ''no you are not a girl and you can put as many explanation points as you want. you were born a boy? then newsflash that i how you will die. it is medically impossible to change your gender....lmao stop living a delusion you sick f_ck?'' and we go on for 16 replies.

   While you're there you would probably like the movie, it's very very lovely.

First let me say that I'm a patriotic law-abiding citizen, I don't break laws, heck I don't even J-walk. That being said, for my safety I would break this law.

This question seems more relevant to non-binaries and trans women than to trans men. But with my receding hairline and this beard (it needs a serious trim, but I've been too lazy), I don't see how I could possibly get more than five feet into an occupied women's restroom without arousing a major ruckus.

If the law were based on the birth certificate, I'd have a hard time persuading anyone that I was AFAB because the name on my BC does not match my other identification, and the only name-change document I have is a homemade "common usage" certificate. It looks reasonably official and was notarized, of course, but I've had a little trouble with it in the past.

I wouldn't have the guts, but I would love to plan a trip to NC for the sole purpose of using every women's restroom I could find.

   You know those X ray things they have at airports that can see through clothing, coming soon to a bathroom near you!

Quote from: Roses and Songs on June 13, 2016, 03:57:09 AM
   You know those X ray things they have at airports that can see through clothing, coming soon to a bathroom near you!

You know you reminded me of a slightly funny scenario.

I was going back home from BCT and they used that. Me, being unfamiliar with them as it was my second time ever flying, didn't think to take off my tags or tell them anything. So I'm going through and it goes off. I said, in my annoyingly high pitched/feminine/super polite voice, "oh sorry, I forgot these" and took off my dogtags.

Turns out the system was pulling up "two lumps on my chest" and they didn't put two and two together and realize that two weren't just two lumps and I awkwardly got groped by the poor security dude who couldn't say sorry enough times. He literally immediately grabbed the left side and went "Is that a breast?" and I just nodded with a slight grin. I actually chuckled it off and informed him that it'll probably be better to just ask next time first. I did look over and notice they hit 'male' first and were looking at my ID with the most confused faces as I hadn't changed the gender marker on it at that time.

Later on, as I'm flying home, I got into a pretty interesting conversation with the girl who was behind me about the x-ray things and 'you'd think breasts wouldn't show up, moobs exist' and I told her 'well I'm too small for them, so I guess they thought it was contraband'.

Quote from: Roses and Songs on June 13, 2016, 03:57:09 AM
   You know those X ray things they have at airports that can see through clothing, coming soon to a bathroom near you!

They can see through clothing, but NOT under skin.... so any really good tucking/inverting using tight pantyhose/spanx will go undetected. this is also why there is still worry about implants, which would require sniff dogs and "probable cause" court orders to investigate.

Quote from: LatrellHK on June 13, 2016, 09:20:49 AM
He literally immediately grabbed the left side and went "Is that a breast?" and I just nodded with a slight grin. I actually chuckled it off and informed him that it'll probably be better to just ask next time first. I did look over and notice they hit 'male' first and were looking at my ID with the most confused faces as I hadn't changed the gender marker on it at that time.

Later on, as I'm flying home, I got into a pretty interesting conversation with the girl who was behind me about the x-ray things and 'you'd think breasts wouldn't show up, moobs exist' and I told her 'well I'm too small for them, so I guess they thought it was contraband'.

   He grabbed you? That's not right but airports are not either anymore so... I guess I wouldn't have minded that much either but I sure would have played offended, very very offended like AHHH, I can't believe this! (very high and very loud) I can't tell you how how much I dreamed of doing that one day, just like the ''not tonight honey, I have a headache'' thing, I just can't wait for the occasion, I'm single now but I rehearsed it well so I'll be ready. Of course I would just be kidding though and for a very short time too, don't want to lose momentum...

                         Anyway, take care of yourself (at airports) and thanks for sharing. Rose.

Quote from: veritatemfurto on June 13, 2016, 11:40:36 AM
They can see through clothing, but NOT under skin.... so any really good tucking/inverting using tight pantyhose/spanx will go undetected. this is also why there is still worry about implants, which would require sniff dogs and "probable cause" court orders to investigate.

   I started HRT 5 years ago at 53 so my face tells all and will always tell all, they wouldn't need any machine to decide that I would probably be a perfect candidate for a more 'complete' check up I guess. I'm convinced I would be embarassed at least a little by any type of search they would give me but hey, if that's what it takes. My only worry thinking about it is I hope I wouldn't forget to check if 'everything' was well in it's place and tucked away nicely before I got off the plane. Standing in line at customs and realizing I forgot to perform a complete check up would be... AHHHH, and you know what, it could happen, I'm kind of an airhead sometimes, just talking about it and I feel weird already...

                                 Anyway, thanks for you reply and be happy, Rose.

                                                                 

I guess it would depend on what the law actually says.  For me the only way that they could even begin to force me back into the men's room would be to create a law that requires you to use the restroom of the sex you were assigned at birth.  The big problem they would have is how would they prove what that was?  However I have publicly made statements about my change and there is a record of my legal name and gender change.  All of my currently issued government issued documentation and identity documents indicate I am female.  Birth certificate, Social Security, Passport, work ID and drivers license all have my correct name and gender.

That said, I am female and I will use the ladies room.  Always.  [except when at a large gathering and the line for the ladies room is to long and the men's room line is short....just like many of my cis sisters] 

Quote from: Roses and Songs on June 13, 2016, 03:10:20 PM
   He grabbed you? That's not right but airports are not either anymore so... I guess I wouldn't have minded that much either but I sure would have played offended, very very offended like AHHH, I can't believe this! (very high and very loud) I can't tell you how how much I dreamed of doing that one day, just like the ''not tonight honey, I have a headache'' thing, I just can't wait for the occasion, I'm single now but I rehearsed it well so I'll be ready. Of course I would just be kidding though and for a very short time too, don't want to lose momentum...

                         Anyway, take care of yourself (at airports) and thanks for sharing. Rose.

Meh, I laugh things off to avoid snapping. But will do. Now that my gender marker does in fact say male, I just gotta worry about that happening again and this time awkwardly explaining myself.

Though I NEVER fly. The only reason I was in a plane said day was because I was flying back home from BCT. First, second, and last for a long time riding on one.

Now as Jessie Ann is saying, that's a huge flaw with the law. How could they prove anything? They could go by looks but I know tons of friends who aren't trans and look/dress differently than what society deems appropriate for a male or female. My cousin identifies as a stud and my friend here does as well. Both of them look and sound pretty masculine, yet they're cisgender women.

Now if you ARE trans, how can they even remotely prove that, especially if you're not out about it? I mean they can kinda reach down there and check but that's sexual assault and last time I checked, I'm the pervert not the person so concerned with my genitals.

Quote from: LatrellHK on June 13, 2016, 07:36:29 PM
Meh, I laugh things off to avoid snapping. But will do. Now that my gender marker does in fact say male, I just gotta worry about that happening again and this time awkwardly explaining myself.

Just practice... "mind your ____ business, it's medical."  A bit of genuine shame-faced indignation goes a long way in a situation like that.

or you could pull a funny awkward moment on them, like in mrs doubtfire where robin blows off messing up between characters when caught by his boss still wearing lipstick but is too drunk to freak about it... or dr frankenfurter playing both sides...

I'd break the law because there's about 1 patrol car for the entire county and I only ever see it outside the fish and chip shop.

Quote from: Cindi Jones on May 24, 2016, 07:07:10 PM
I absolutely would obey the law and then sue the local government when they arrest me. We need some legal action on these silly laws. All my documents indicate the F marker. I have a valid birth certificate. My anatomy is female.

I WOULD use the freakin mens room to make a point. ARREST ME.

Cindi

Ditto for me.

Men's restroom.  Let people feel uncomfortable with me....


Hugs

Jen

I was at a national college trustees conference this week and was seated next to a delegation from North Carolina.  What  an opportunity!  While trustees from my state of Oregon are elected, the NC trustees are appointed by their governor.  The same one who signed, the now infamous, bathroom bill.   

I inquired about how their college was responding to the federal directives and heard that they "might" need to fix some bathrooms but "it really isn't a problem" as there are no transgender students there!  They seemed to feel it was the City of Charlotte that overreached with laws that would have protected us. 

I asked how they knew there are no trans students attending their school and got a bit of um, ah, oh gee and hopefully a bit of introspection followed.  Education isn't always easy for educators either ;D  I was so happy to be a visible reference for them and hope they reconsider their responsibility to keep all students and staff safe.

I would continue using the one that matches my gender identity, but I would feel much more anxiety about it

I'm not sure, because after I've been on hormones and pass as male I wouldn't want to make women scream even though I'm legally still female.

I'd use the bathroom matching my identity and would love to see someone try and stop me.

come move to canada :) even our prime minister marches in our gay pride

If things get any worse here we may have to. Thank goodness my father was born in Toronto.

I was recently forced out of my comfort zone on this one, so I need to change my answer from favor the family bathroom to favor the women's bathroom. I tried the family bathroom thing on vacation, at a please that's loaded with kids. Being the only person in a very long family bathroom line that has no kids or disability is a bit unnerving. I switched to the women's room pretty easily after that one time. I can now say I've peed in a public bathroom in almost every state on the east coast including NC & SC, without incident. SC was actually the scariest. I thought NC would be.

This is a hard one but I don't think I could violate the law.

I have no idea if there is such a law on the books where I live, but I tend to avoid public restrooms all together whenever possible anyway

i would totaly go to the men's washroom to troll them hahaha

Nah, wouldn't care about it. I'm post op and stealth anyway.

I try to avoid public restrooms like the plague, especially since most men's rooms are completely disgusting for some reason, but if they passed a law like that.. I'd make it a point to always use one when I'm out and about. I'd dare anyone to try and make a fuss. I don't see it going well if I tried to use the women's room anyway. I'd most likely get in trouble for that before anyone would even suspect I'm a trans dude being a rebel and breaking the law by using the men's room.

I'm non-transitioned, but I can tell you what I'd do: Use only unisex restrooms. It's what I already do.

I'm a person that doesn't really care to make any kind of scene. I just want to blend in (now do you see why transitioning is such a nightmare for me, if I was able?). If I transitioned I probably would still probably avoid women's restrooms that have stalls because I just don't like the idea of using the bathroom with other people.

Nope and if anyone said anything to me I would piss outside between the two


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Well with the way the economy's going, getting locked up would be fine. Least I wouldn't have to pay council tax.