Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Lately I've been hearing some things, even a testimony of someone praying to God to find their way and living life as the gender and sex they were born. There's also always been the "God doesnt make mistakes" and "You were born the sex you are for a reason", but I've been hearing those since day one.

I think it's troublesome to hear those types of things since naturally the thought of Hell can be scary and everyone who believes in God wants to go to heaven. However, I like being a girl (even if I havent been able to start hormones). When I look to the future, I can only see a happy life as a girl, so even if I could "pray and be cured" I wouldn't unless I could wake up as a regular girl.

Thoughts?

I don't believe that God makes mistakes. I believe that I was born transgender on purpose, and that transition has been put in front of me because it is the path I'm meant to travel. I have no issues reconciling my faith from that viewpoint.

I do have an explanation for this that I've used with those willing to listen. (Powered by 12 years in schools studying religion, Latin, and repression...)

God doesn't make mistakes.  God does sometimes grant us gifts to use in our lives. What we do with those gifts matters.

Recall the "Parable of the talents".  A man going on a journey calls his three servants together.  He entrusts 5 talents (a talent is about 80 pounds of silver, roughly 20 years wages.) to one servant he sees as being very able, 2 talents to a capable servant, and one talent to the third servant.  Then, he leaves.  The servant with 5 talents invests them, and makes another 5 talents.  The servant with 2 talents invests them, and earns another 2 talents.  The third servant buries his talent, fearful of risking it.   The man returns after a long period and settles accounts with them.  The first servant returns 10 talents, the original 5 plus the investment gain, and the man praises him, granting him a high position.  The second servant returns 4 talents, the original 2 plus the gain, and the man praises and promotes him as well.  The third servant returns the original talent he buried.  The man decries his wicked and slothful ways, takes the one talent from him and gives it to the servant with the 10 talents.  "For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Now, when I was created, I had a family that was fairly well off, a good home, and I would develop with an intelligent and curious mind, the potential for a good education, as a white male.  I think God looked at this and thought "OK, this one has it pretty easy, and needs a special challenge to fully develop.  I think I'll give this one the soul of a woman and see what they do with that."  God caused my mother and doctor to use a new medication, DES, that made my brain ready to receive a female soul.

Now, having been granted this gift, and realized what I have, what am I to do with it?  Shall I bury it, hiding it from the light, so at the end of my days I can only return this gift, unused and uninvested?   Or should I bring this gift into the light of day, use it to it's fullest extent, to let it grow and flourish, for the benefit of myself and those around me, so I may return this gift manyfold at the end of my days?

Now, there are those who would have me bury it, suffer in silence, for this gift makes them uncomfortable.  At The End Of Days, they may very well be cast into the outer darkness.  In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 

(Note:  There's a lot of good advice buried in those old books, mixed in with a lot of strange stuff.  But, I was trained by Jesuits...)

Yeah, I prayed daily for 45 years.  First, like most, I prayed for God to change my body.  After many years of prayer, no answer.  So then I thought maybe that was sinful and against his will.  So I prayed for God to change my mind to end the torment.  I got the same result, no answer.

There is little in this life that is as huge a waste of time as is praying to a God without ears.


Sapere Aude

Quote from: Michelle_P on May 25, 2016, 02:54:02 PM
I do have an explanation for this that I've used with those willing to listen. (Powered by 12 years in schools studying religion, Latin, and repression...)

God doesn't make mistakes.  God does sometimes grant us gifts to use in our lives. What we do with those gifts matters.

Recall the "Parable of the talents".  A man going on a journey calls his three servants together.  He entrusts 5 talents (a talent is about 80 pounds of silver, roughly 20 years wages.) to one servant he sees as being very able, 2 talents to a capable servant, and one talent to the third servant.  Then, he leaves.  The servant with 5 talents invests them, and makes another 5 talents.  The servant with 2 talents invests them, and earns another 2 talents.  The third servant buries his talent, fearful of risking it.   The man returns after a long period and settles accounts with them.  The first servant returns 10 talents, the original 5 plus the investment gain, and the man praises him, granting him a high position.  The second servant returns 4 talents, the original 2 plus the gain, and the man praises and promotes him as well.  The third servant returns the original talent he buried.  The man decries his wicked and slothful ways, takes the one talent from him and gives it to the servant with the 10 talents.  "For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Now, when I was created, I had a family that was fairly well off, a good home, and I would develop with an intelligent and curious mind, the potential for a good education, as a white male.  I think God looked at this and thought "OK, this one has it pretty easy, and needs a special challenge to fully develop.  I think I'll give this one the soul of a woman and see what they do with that."  God caused my mother and doctor to use a new medication, DES, that made my brain ready to receive a female soul.

Now, having been granted this gift, and realized what I have, what am I to do with it?  Shall I bury it, hiding it from the light, so at the end of my days I can only return this gift, unused and uninvested?   Or should I bring this gift into the light of day, use it to it's fullest extent, to let it grow and flourish, for the benefit of myself and those around me, so I may return this gift manyfold at the end of my days?

Now, there are those who would have me bury it, suffer in silence, for this gift makes them uncomfortable.  At The End Of Days, they may very well be cast into the outer darkness.  In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 

(Note:  There's a lot of good advice buried in those old books, mixed in with a lot of strange stuff.  But, I was trained by Jesuits...)

That was nicely put and a nice story.  And, I share the belief of being born this way for a reason. Though it's a challenge, it really is a gift too.

I grew up in a very religious family and it appears a very religious town too. Although I am now atheist, I spent 25 years praying for God to fix me and it never happened. Why? Because there's nothing to fix! You're made transgendered. Medical science happens to have a way to change that for us. End of story.

There's a whole bunch of counters to the not changing how God made you too. Should we let babies born deaf or blind spend their lives that way if we can fix it? Nobody would say yes. It's really no different.

Along another line, there's a joke out there about a guy stuck in a flood and these people keep showing up with boats and he keeps turning them away saying God will save him. After a helicopter showed up, nothing else did and he asked God what the heck was going on and he said I sent 2 boats and a helicopter. What more did you want? I'm sure I told that wrong, so maybe looking it up would be best.

The point is, just because man makes the lifesaving change, doesn't mean Christians don't tend to believe it was influenced by God. Oh unless it's for someone that's transgendered, then it came from the devil? Why? Because of Deuteronmy 22:5, the only verse in the bible that speaks of being transgendered in a bad light? A few other verses in that exact same chapter would implicate nearly every person on this planet. They can't say verse 5 is valid, but the rest aren't simply because verse 5 is the only one that doesn't affect them. But then, that's what got us to where we are now, where us having equal rights is viewed as us getting extra rights.

People are born with hurdles and situations that are obstacles all the time. The God does not make mistakes thing is laughable and still you hear it parroted around. Religious people trying to control the lives of others are as old as time itself. Same old recipe, new times, different target. Herein lies a primary "sin" of man.

I don't believe in God but if I did and was going to pray for anything, it would be to be free to be myself. I might daydream about waking up with a fully functional male body but even if I did, I wouldn't be the same as cis males thanks to my lifetime of experiences interacting with the world from within a feminine body. I can't imagine praying to identify as a woman because I don't want to be one.

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Quote from: Emileeeee on May 25, 2016, 06:51:23 PM

The point is, just because man makes the lifesaving change, doesn't mean Christians don't tend to believe it was influenced by God. Oh unless it's for someone that's transgendered, then it came from the devil? Why? Because of Deuteronmy 22:5, the only verse in the bible that speaks of being transgendered in a bad light? A few other verses in that exact same chapter would implicate nearly every person on this planet. They can't say verse 5 is valid, but the rest aren't simply because verse 5 is the only one that doesn't affect them.

They can however say verse 5 is valid while the others are not because that's exactly what St. Paul said.

1 COR 6:9-10,  "9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

While the term effeminate here, Greek "malakos", has several meanings, every one of those meanings pertains to males taking the role of females.

We should also remember that this writing of Paul predates the gospels by 20 years or more.  It is the earliest extant evidence of what the original church believed and taught.


Sapere Aude

Quote from: Deborah on May 25, 2016, 07:15:12 PM
They can however say verse 5 is valid while the others are not because that's exactly what St. Paul said.

1 COR 6:9-10,  "9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

While the term effeminate here, Greek "malakos", has several meanings, every one of those meanings pertains to males taking the role of females.

We should also remember that this writing of Paul predates the gospels by 20 years or more.  It is the earliest extant evidence of what the original church believed and taught.


Sapere Aude

Does that technically me there's nothing about ftm? Overal mtf seems to be the face since its "degrading" to be a woman or girly.

bible literalism is a never ending exercise in futility and frustration.

Quote from: Deborah on May 25, 2016, 07:15:12 PM
They can however say verse 5 is valid while the others are not because that's exactly what St. Paul said.

1 COR 6:9-10,  "9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

While the term effeminate here, Greek "malakos", has several meanings, every one of those meanings pertains to males taking the role of females.

We should also remember that this writing of Paul predates the gospels by 20 years or more.  It is the earliest extant evidence of what the original church believed and taught.


Sapere Aude

Point taken. I didn't know that. I guess "God" didn't know that FtMs existed though, either that or women are so insignificant that he didn't care.

Quote from: Serenahikaru on May 25, 2016, 07:55:57 PM
Does that technically me there's nothing about ftm? Overal mtf seems to be the face since its "degrading" to be a woman or girly.

There isn't anything specifically like that.  This is the closest but relates more to sexual attraction rather than identity.

ROM 1:25-27, 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

The point is though that we can criticize conservative Christians all we want for their bigotry.  I agree with that criticism 100%.  But we cannot use their scriptures in that criticism because they are not reading them wrong.  Rather it is the liberal Christians who are developing imaginative interpretations unknown to Christianity before the late 20th century and directly contradicted by such theologians as St. Paul and St. Augustine.

This is one of the major reasons I deliberately abandoned my faith, honesty.


Sapere Aude

I tried to praying to god when I was a believer, first to change me into a girl and then to "purge" the "sinful" urges I had.
Today, I have come to accept myself to the point I could no more voluntarily take some "cure pill" to make me content being male than I could voluntarily quit playing music. Having to be male be about equally depressing as loosing my arms.

I prayed for years. I prayed to take this away. I prayed to help me live with it. I prayed for god to change me. I finally decided it was up to me to make my life better.

I've since lost my beliefs. I am a better person for it. I am more compassionate, loving, and charitable without my fundamentalist beliefs.

God did cure me, God kept me alive in order to transition and be happy.

This has always depressed me too
I have been brought up a believer, and I tried my best to be the best guy ever,I worked so hard, and still this feeling would not disapear!
I really hope that God wouldn't have us live a half life and he would want was for us to do what we felt was right!
All these people who are against us know that only god can judge us, for you cannot understand the reason for us being like this!
I really do hope that this is the case :/

I'll go with no mistakes as this body and past life was the price of my new life and I pay it gladly for my wife & family.

Also same as I've always told my kids

"There may be pixies. There may be elves. But God helps those that help themselves."

Quote from: Jerrica on May 28, 2016, 06:33:38 PM
"There may be pixies. There may be elves. But God helps those that help themselves."

That's a cute rhyme, especially since I love fairies myself. <3 

Glad you like it. Love fairies too but you might have guessed ♡

As for the gods if any want to help they are welcome but if not then they can stay out of my way and I'll take care of whatever needs done personally ;)

Quote from: Serenahikaru on May 25, 2016, 01:46:04 PM
Lately I've been hearing some things, even a testimony of someone praying to God to find their way and living life as the gender and sex they were born. There's also always been the "God doesnt make mistakes" and "You were born the sex you are for a reason", but I've been hearing those since day one.

I think it's troublesome to hear those types of things since naturally the thought of Hell can be scary and everyone who believes in God wants to go to heaven. However, I like being a girl (even if I havent been able to start hormones). When I look to the future, I can only see a happy life as a girl, so even if I could "pray and be cured" I wouldn't unless I could wake up as a regular girl.

Thoughts?

I've always debated inside my mind for years if God could even exist, and if he did then I couldn't find a very good cause for creating so much struggle inside this world.
I never really came to a complete conclusion on whether or not I believed he existed.
but I can tell you this, I think we were created by something. Whether that is the universe or a scientific reason I don't know. But whatever the reason I think being a person who is transgender is amazing  I think it's amazing because we learn so much and gained so much experience on this journey. Along with gaining a lot of confidence and strength throughout everything. I don't think what we are is wrong and I would say that all of those people who made those nasty comments are just people who are ignorant.
Ignorance can be good or bad in this world but I believe everybody has a chance to learn and those people probably just need to be educated. But it's up to them whether or not they want to listen and learn. I'm not exactly sure what to say and I'm sorry if I misunderstood what you are trying to ask. But when it comes to something like this I personally never listened to them comments form others.
But I don't think anything in this world even if something did create us would dislike us for who we are or would have made us this way if they didn't want us to be transgender we can help so many people and create so much awareness on so many things that its more of a gift in my eyes. So heck, whatever the critics say i'd just smile and walk away because we're great people and we are no less then anyone else.  ;D