Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Similar to another thread "When do you think controversy over trans people will calm down?", when do you think the general population will accept trans people? And by accept, I mean see us as "real men" and "real women". Ex: a trans woman being seen as a woman who happens to have different parts than most women, and not a "man who wants to be a woman" or "a man in a dress". And for NB people, when do you think they'll see their genders (or lack thereof) as valid?

A big factor is where you live as well. For example, an oppressive, third-world country would take much longer to accept trans people than a progressive, first-world country.

I live in the United States and I give it 30 years. I think the more northern blue states will accept trans people faster than the red.   

I think it may be a little sooner then 31 years. I say around 20. If you model it off the acceptance of the lesbian gay community. Their big push started in the 80's culminated in the 90's. It's a cultural shift and that takes education. So its the education of the younger generation. Today's elementary and middle school children will be the ones that effect the narrative for us.

I think it will have more to do with education than a specific timeline.

Right now, there isn't much education going on.  There's awareness, but little to no education.

It also doesn't help that "transgender" is a HUGE umbrella term that describes so many different gender identities.  How is the average cis-gender person supposed to become educated if they have to learn all the intricacies of so many different gender identities in the transgender spectrum?

With gay/lesbian people, it's quite simple to understand what they are and who they love.  With transgender people, it's so much more complicated, made even more so by the different ways people use the word "transgender" to describe different things.  It makes education more difficult, which will mean it will take even longer for general acceptance.  I'm quite depressed when I think about it really.

I think we will tolerated and supported long before we are truly accepted.
In the part of Canada where I live, most people already want to protect us from discrimination... but that is a far cry from accepting us as "real" men and women. I would say that people where I am at least see us as human beings worthy of respect although many probably still think we are deluded.
True acceptance though will only come when most people recognize that gender identity goes beyond body... something that is hard for cis people to do.

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Maybe I can relieve some of the depression. They are doing some education. My daughter who is 10. Asked me the other day about what I thought about the bathroom thing. She has no idea about me yet. She asked what I thought. So I said before I answer how what do you think. Her reply was great. We don't look at each others privates in the bathroom and if they real felt like a girl then that's where they belong. All I could say is wow. She lives with my very right wing ex so it came from somewhere else. So I inquired. They talked about in school along with gay and lesbian tolerance and respect for all people. This is in conservative virginia. So it's out there.

Quote from: Daniellek74 on June 12, 2016, 11:50:53 PM
Maybe I can relieve some of the depression. They are doing some education. My daughter who is 10. Asked me the other day about what I thought about the bathroom thing. She has no idea about me yet. She asked what I thought. So I said before I answer how what do you think. Her reply was great. We don't look at each others privates in the bathroom and if they real felt like a girl then that's where they belong. All I could say is wow. She lives with my very right wing ex so it came from somewhere else. So I inquired. They talked about in school along with gay and lesbian tolerance and respect for all people. This is in conservative virginia. So it's out there.

Wow, thanks for sharing.
I'm in the "Amish Area" of PA, so I can only hope the school systems will eventually educate my brother (8 years old). I'm not out to my right wing family/still live at home. He is pretty naive about stuff but seems open about accepting people (my parents aren't). I'm glad to hear there is slight progression.
And good for asking her what she thinks, I think it is quite interesting to hear how kid minds work. :)

Quote from: MisterQueer on June 12, 2016, 10:27:47 PM
A big factor is where you live as well. For example, an oppressive, third-world country would take much longer to accept trans people than a progressive, first-world country.

Please don't talk this way. Sure, an oppressive, authoritarian country is not going to be a nice place to be. But just because a country isn't developed economically doesn't mean they don't have cultural traditions accepting trans people. Actually, it's the West that, at the least since the beginning of the Modern period (15-16 centuries) has been unable to conceptualize anything outside of the gender binary and in denial that anyone is born stuck in between. It's been a long, hard road since the late 19th century to convince anyone, including doctors, otherwise. But just because that's our Western culture doesn't mean that's a universal. In fact, it's been work by anthropologists in non-Western cultures that's been brought into our discourse about how we treat gender non variant people because there IS another way than repeatedly forcing square pegs into round holes with a mallet.

That said, you might not like living under some of those cultures because they often treat all gay and trans people as a third sex (or fourth or fifth) and many such people want to be treated as just a normal man or woman. But there is some evidence that trans people in such cultures suffer less distress than we do because their trans condition is treated as being pretty normal and not surprising, weird, freaky, made up, or a sign of mental illness.

I just found out from my aunt that she told my dad about my surgery. I've been estranged from my parents since I came out as trans (there are multiple reasons, but that was a big one). My aunt said my dad knew all about my younger cousin transitioning male-to-female so that probably helped. She said he wasn't angry and actually talked about when I was a very small child and my mother would call me a girly-girl and I would say, No. I am a boy girl. So he's trying to understand.

Education takes time. I think younger kids now understand trans way better than older generations. We'll see changes as Millennials come of age. When us GenXers are the fossils, you'll really see a change in attitude.

Most likely never.
Most trans people who don't pass are never accepted.

Quote from: Angieisalone on June 13, 2016, 07:14:12 AM
Most likely never.
Most trans people who don't pass are never accepted.

I still have some hope, that it will change one day... but I think, we will need a lot of years till it happen - and I do not belive that its possible with every culutre...

When will society at large accept trans men and woman? This is an interesting questions that I believe will reveal a lot about each one of us individually. For myself, I though trans men and woman were fairly accepted up until that terrorist attack in Orlando. For me, I though we were all standing on the loving and belonging level of maslow's hierarchy of needs reaching for that next step towards self actualization. But now I don't know.  Although I want safety, I really want freedom.

Quote from: jessicadee on June 13, 2016, 11:55:56 AM
When will society at large accept trans men and woman? This is an interesting questions that I believe will reveal a lot about each one of us individually. For myself, I though trans men and woman were fairly accepted up until that terrorist attack in Orlando. For me, I though we were all standing on the loving and belonging level of maslow's hierarchy of needs reaching for that next step towards self actualization. But now I don't know.  Although I want safety, I really want freedom.

I don't see a terrorist attack as any indicator of society at large. There surely are elements of society that are radical and full of evil, they come from all over, but society in general continues to be educated, entertained and made aware of their fellow trans citizens. Keep the faith and look at all the indicators of acceptance now.

Quote from: MisterQueer on June 12, 2016, 10:27:47 PM
Similar to another thread "When do you think controversy over trans people will calm down?", when do you think the general population will accept trans people? And by accept, I mean see us as "real men" and "real women". Ex: a trans woman being seen as a woman who happens to have different parts than most women, and not a "man who wants to be a woman" or "a man in a dress". And for NB people, when do you think they'll see their genders (or lack thereof) as valid?

A big factor is where you live as well. For example, an oppressive, third-world country would take much longer to accept trans people than a progressive, first-world country.

I live in the United States and I give it 30 years. I think the more northern blue states will accept trans people faster than the red.

Has hell frozen over yet? That's when. But considering where we've come from and where we want to go, once those Patriot, God Loving, Ice Cream social, religious obstacles are out of the way. Isn't it disheartening to think the very folk whose choice is to follow God, and should be teaching love and understanding can do nothing but hate.

like I said in the previous thread, we are close but not there yet, if the repetition of timelines dictates how things are panning out. Where we are right now, is in that uneasy period similar to the 50s Civil Rights Movement- that period between segregation and integration.  The next couple months with changes in leadership are going to be the deciding factor on how fast or slow things progress.

I believe that more people are tolerant than people believe. People don't want it flaunted; just act naturalally.

This is a bit of a conundrum...

This is a terrible difficult question and I think there is no answer to it that satisfies everyone. And when there is no satisfactory answer to something I am hesitant to reply because the question might be invalid. Your question suggest either a positive or negative answer, and because of this I cannot answer that because I cannot speak for everyone. It is like asking: will everyone one day love the color pink? that question is problematic and could better be rephrased differently, or not asked at all.

I do want to attempt to give my answer though, so here it goes for me:

I think the general population will never accept T's uniformly as a whole at any given moment. They might tolerate us, which means they let us in their hierarchy or caste when they understand that we are not a threat to them. They might figure out how to exploit us financially, and therefore seemingly accept us. But complete acceptance seems a Utopia. If you want to know why, then you have to dig deep down into biology, sociology and a miscellaneous mess of psychology.

But for me, I don't want to be accepted. Because acceptance is actually a way of subordinating us into a caste we're already in, but on THEIR terms.

I just want to scream about the whole thing.
Why are we dividing the human race by skin color and what they have in their pants/panties?
Arrrrggghh!
What does "hidden plumbing" have to do with anything, unless it's something you prefer "in bed"
If you're not actually looking to have sex, it should be totally irrelevant!
(This coming from AFAB that chooses to be known as cis/hetero, but I do NOT conform to either gender "standards")

   Before we ask societies or individuals to accept us, we must first learn to do it ourselves and we're definitely not there yet but I saw somewhere that today, we are about where homosexuality was 25 years ago. Could be but I think we're probably more easily identifiable, visualy, so it may take a bit longer. There's also the power of the religious right that has increased dramaticaly for the last 25 years. It took them 500 years to recognize that it was the earth that was turning around the sun and that Galileo was right so that scares me a bit, if you've never seen the commentary section of a trans related video on youtube it is scary sometimes, very scary so there's definitely a lot of work to do there but we'll see, hope is still aloud, but not in girls restrooms!
                                                                                     Love and happiness, Rose.

Quote from: bunnymom on June 13, 2016, 04:58:24 PM
I just want to scream about the whole thing.
Why are we dividing the human race by skin color and what they have in their pants/panties?
Arrrrggghh!
What does "hidden plumbing" have to do with anything, unless it's something you prefer "in bed"
If you're not actually looking to have sex, it should be totally irrelevant!
(This coming from AFAB that chooses to be known as cis/hetero, but I do NOT conform to either gender "standards")

Hello Bunnymom dear, I hope this answer your questions. It is a comment about us I took from a youtube 'conversation' I had with the guy about a week ago. Sit down, get ready and remain calm, this is for real, word for word. By the way, I won...

I have zero empathy for sick perverts who think their mental  illness  gives them the right to ignore other people's rights. you are male sick freak. you can neve  be female it is medically  impossible  to change your gender so Yea it is our business  what you have between your legs because you are pretending to be female and yes you are breaking the law you sick f_ck. restroom and locker rooms are divided based on your gender...not the gender you pretend to be. thankfully  most of you filth kind yourselves but we will deal with the rude, survivors  who think they can dictate to the majority  what is going to happen?

                                                        Lovely don't you think? Cheers, Rose.

pretty sure Buttercup would say "Oh yea? Come at me, yo!"
(https://ekamyogini.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/buttercup31.jpg)

its people like that who cause a need for the Pink Panthers Party (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pink_Panthers).

Quote from: Angieisalone on June 13, 2016, 07:14:12 AM
Most trans people who don't pass are never accepted.

I disagree!  I don't even remotely pass, and I'm pretty well-accepted.  I live in the pacific northwest, and I find that people have pretty well moved on.  The caveat, of course, is that I don't bug out if people misgender me.  I've only experienced explicit transphobia from one person, a truscum transwoman.

I think besides depending on where you live, it depends on the mentality of your political "faction" you support. The conservatives here, at least where I live, have a very strict right vs. wrong instinct. It's naturally harder for them to accept anything un-American or un-Traditional. And they are the most vocal ones. They think the moderase conservatives are too liberal.

I'm also tired of them comparing European countries to socialism or the USSR. Why don't they go move there?  :)

Politics is important especially in the USA this year. Pay attention to candidates who have active outreach to the trans community.  Especially on the presidential level. As recent history has shown it's good to have an advocate in the White House.
And be sure to register.
And vote!

I've been voting in the presidential elections since I turned 18. I voted for the Republican Mitt Romney in 2012. But this year might be a whole different story. I know that I feel iffed about supporting the GOP anti-GLBTQ* rhetoric this year, but why are what the Democrats offering necessarily better? Anyways, a vote for a Democrat makes me feel like a rebel.

So I don't know which way I will vote, but I don't want my conservative traditional family to ostracize me over my politics.

Also wanting a link to a summary of each candidates views in depth.

This old bat is living in an alternate universe then that of the 1970's when I performed my first "Experiment" with transitioning. However, the "Real" change is incremental. Living where I do, being the chameleon that I am, I also greatly question just how much of the level of "acceptance" today is PC peer pressure window dressing.

Education can only do so much. Family life/values, regional/societal norms, as well as a host of other factors are influences difficult to impossible to overcome. Cis people have a tremendous amount of peer pressure and expectations put upon them to live up the "expectations" for their gender. To be "The Perfect....." What hope can TG people have operating in such a binary world?

Don't get me wrong. I am absolutely thankful for the changes I've seen since I was coming of age. This 6ft tall big everything deep voiced woman has achieved her life long dream of being seen as and accepted as a woman. I'll take the PC scraps I'm tossed even if I believe that deep down inside the other person may want to see me dead. It beats being laughed at or worse by that same "person" some 40 years ago.

I just don't see real acceptance coming for some hundreds of years, if ever without some Orwellian iron fisted central authority remolding society in general

Quote from: veritatemfurto on June 14, 2016, 08:52:30 PM
pretty sure Buttercup would say "Oh yea? Come at me, yo!"
(https://ekamyogini.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/buttercup31.jpg)

its people like that who cause a need for the Pink Panthers Party (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pink_Panthers).

Yes! She totally would! My personality is all Blossom and Bubbles, until somebody messes with me. Then I go full Buttercup.  >:-)

I am under no illusions about the pace of change.  While I am happy to see the changes that are taking place, you can really only influence people under 40.  With very few exceptions, people over 40 have their minds made up, and you will never change them. 

So a real change in society requires that young, progressive people sustain the effort to make change long enough for the dinosaurs to die off.  There is a whole generation of dinosaurs in various places of power.  General acceptance will happen when they are gone.

Quote from: KathyLauren on July 03, 2016, 10:13:32 AM
I am under no illusions about the pace of change.  While I am happy to see the changes that are taking place, you can really only influence people under 40.  With very few exceptions, people over 40 have their minds made up, and you will never change them. 

So a real change in society requires that young, progressive people sustain the effort to make change long enough for the dinosaurs to die off.  There is a whole generation of dinosaurs in various places of power.  General acceptance will happen when they are gone.

The youth are awesome no doubt about it. But, i have found even older people that get to know a trans person can change too. I personally have known 3-4 that have done a 180.

I honestly don't think they will.
I am m2f and have been living in 'stealth' for a good number of years now. I have friends who don't know about my past. Occasionally the subject of transgendered people comes up, and I'm shocked/amazed how some of my friends (who are otherwise really nice kind people) really don't accept it at all. And yet unknowingly they are talking to one such person!

Quote from: Roses and Songs on June 14, 2016, 07:43:18 PM
Hello Bunnymom dear, I hope this answer your questions. It is a comment about us I took from a youtube 'conversation' I had with the guy about a week ago. Sit down, get ready and remain calm, this is for real, word for word. By the way, I won...

I have zero empathy for sick perverts who think their mental  illness  gives them the right to ignore other people's rights. you are male sick freak. you can neve  be female it is medically  impossible  to change your gender so Yea it is our business  what you have between your legs because you are pretending to be female and yes you are breaking the law you sick f_ck. restroom and locker rooms are divided based on your gender...not the gender you pretend to be. thankfully  most of you filth kind yourselves but we will deal with the rude, survivors  who think they can dictate to the majority  what is going to happen?

                                                        Lovely don't you think? Cheers, Rose.

This is rather horrible.

But this person would have to physically beat me up to prevent me from using the correct (female) restroom.

However, at this point I doubt this person would even recognize me as trans lady anyway. Few people in real life now can detect that I am trans. They see me as simply any lady entering the restroom.

Jennifer xx

As to accepting genuine transgender full time females (which is more specific than the OP):

It is not fair, but passability or blendability still plays a huge role in nearly all countries.

Ideally even if recognized as being trans lady, this shouldn't make a difference in face to face real life.

I would recommend early exposure to kids, such as I have heard that in the Netherlands (Holland) kids are now made aware that we exist. This may also be the case currently in Denmark, but I have not independently verified this.

However the United States -- my native country -- is probably still too primitive to do this any time soon. Ontario Canada might though ? Hopefully !

Primitive human fears die hard.

As to me personally, rarely in real life am I NOT accepted. Because I don't NEED to be accepted as trans in most cases -- such as entering public toilets/restrooms/fitting rooms. I simply DO so, without any second looks. Now people simply see a WOMAN. Few people I encounter in real life face to face even consider me to be trans.

Why should they ? I simply 24 / 7 present myself as beautiful Jennifer --

WOMAN not trans-woman. People in shopping centers, stores, offices, workplace -- see me as simply a LADY -- which makes me feel SUPER HAPPY. I rarely even mention that I am trans, unless it it absolutely necessary. And I am doing this in my FIFTIES.  :)

Jennifer xx

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi61.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh60%2FJennifer_Lopezgomez%2FWIN_20160620_15_12_25_Pro_zpsglbfmmnp.jpg&hash=f587529ff8567d530c33ad3a2b5f196a659282be) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/Jennifer_Lopezgomez/media/WIN_20160620_15_12_25_Pro_zpsglbfmmnp.jpg.html)

I had a discussion the other day with a good, supportive friend at work. She said, "I'm happy to share the bathroom with trans women as long as they don't pee on he seat." I told her, because she didn't know, that most of us stop peeing standing up long before we would even consider using the ladie's room. I also told her that HRT makes that hard or impossible fairly quickly. All it takes,for the average person, is a little education.

Quote from: Dee Marshall on July 04, 2016, 04:22:39 AM
I had a discussion the other day with a good, supportive friend at work. She said, "I'm happy to share the bathroom with trans women as long as they don't pee on he seat." I told her, because she didn't know, that most of us stop peeing standing up long before we would even consider using the ladie's room. I also told her that HRT makes that hard or impossible fairly quickly. All it takes,for the average person, is a little education.

Oh yes, I so agree with you. Education, information, awareness, etc... when this starts to settle, the rest will be bread crumbs. A lot of people think they know about us but they really don't, especialy if they watch fox a little too much. Some (like me) may not like who Caitlyn Jenner is, her personality but at least she got the discussion going, and that's what we need the most. 

I could easily get into deep water here, but there is a broad spectrum of what 'trans' is. Likewise there are different levels of acceptance that the "general public" (whoever that actually is) will accept.
I have found through repeated personal experience that those on the 'trans spectrum' who pass, don't draw attention to themselves, and generally conform to society's expectations of the gender they present as, and take steps such as hrt and surgery to get as close as possible to the gender they know they are, are more likely to gain acceptance from the "person on the street".
Whereas the "loud and proud" types, those who don't pass, have no intention to take hrt or have surgery, and are very non-conforming to society's gender-expectations, are much less likely to gain acceptance from the 'general population'.
So it really depends on your definition of 'trans' as to how likely it is that such folk will gain acceptance.

Quote from: V on July 03, 2016, 06:59:13 PM
I honestly don't think they will.
I am m2f and have been living in 'stealth' for a good number of years now. I have friends who don't know about my past. Occasionally the subject of transgendered people comes up, and I'm shocked/amazed how some of my friends (who are otherwise really nice kind people) really don't accept it at all. And yet unknowingly they are talking to one such person!

What I call "Being a Chameleon" but from the opposite side of the equation. When alone without the PC police, the truth comes out. In male mode I am about the furthest anyone would imagine as "One of those". It takes a lot of self restraint not to out myself

#1 reason I say hundred years or more

Hmmm.
Hear in the U.K. there's a tradition with men dressed as women being seen as a comedy act. At Christmas we have a great tradition of pantomimes were women dress as prince charming and men dress as women (yes we are a strange nation) have a look on the internet for clips.
These pantomimes and comedy TV shows are very popular and very funny which sadly is why I feel that Trans people will be seen for a considerable time yet as someone to be laughed at.

Where I am (Toronto) I think it is fairly accepted.  The trans-march that happened on July 1 (Canada Day) had estimated 8,000 to 11,000 trans, and trans-allies march.

Quote from: wendylove on July 04, 2016, 03:19:56 PM
Hmmm.
Hear in the U.K. there's a tradition with men dressed as women being seen as a comedy act. At Christmas we have a great tradition of pantomimes were women dress as prince charming and men dress as women (yes we are a strange nation) have a look on the internet for clips.
These pantomimes and comedy TV shows are very popular and very funny which sadly is why I feel that Trans people will be seen for a considerable time yet as someone to be laughed at.

Yes, sadly you are right, and the UK tabloid press does us no favours either!

Quote from: JoanneB on July 04, 2016, 12:05:59 PM
What I call "Being a Chameleon" but from the opposite side of the equation. When alone without the PC police, the truth comes out. In male mode I am about the furthest anyone would imagine as "One of those". It takes a lot of self restraint not to out myself

#1 reason I say hundred years or more

I would go one further than this. Here is a story from my past.
When I transitioned, I didn't change jobs, I had a 2 week break and then returned to my exact same job, but as a woman. The company I worked for was a very large one with many thousands of employees spread over different sites. I was the first transgendered employee they had ever dealt with, their HR department literally worked with me to re-write company policy to incorporate transexual employees.
I made a number of friends with the cis-female women in our building, and they were very accepting and supportive of me. They kinda took me under their wing as it were. I did bring up one day that I was surprised and grateful of their support. A few told me that they were initially very skeptical, but after meeting the new 'me', they were fine, and indeed were fascinated at how well I had (in their eyes) taken to being female. They confessed that they couldn't see me as anything else as time went by. There are many stories from that time in my life, but one thing that stood out is as follows:
In another division of the company, another TG employee had recently 'come out', about 18 months after me. HR asked if I would offer my support to her, and I happily agreed. I was a kind-of ambassador for diversity and acceptance at our company, and had been featured in the company magazine.
I used to regularly meet this other TG employee in the canteen in our building. After a while, I noticed my cis-female friends were much less pally towards me. Eventually a couple of them approached me and asked why I was hanging around with "that man" (!)
The other TG employee was m2f like me, pre-op like me, but she didn't pass at all. The poor girl was much older, very tall (I'm 5 foot 6 inches in my bare feet, she was at least a foot taller) very strong masculine features, very booming deep male voice. None of that had bothered me, but 'the girls' in my office told me in no uncertain terms that being seen with this other person was doing my own cause no good at all, and that while they could see and accept me as a woman, they could not, and never would be able to say the same for the other TG person.
I was so shocked and upset, I had mistakenly thought that my new girlfriends were accepting of all trans people, but they were most definitely not. They were entirely driven by visual appearance only.
I learned a painful lesson that day, the world in general works on a purely visual level, and one where only certain 'appearances' will fit and find acceptance.
To this day I find that whole episode awkward and unpleasant to think about.
Living 'in stealth' and hearing what folks actually say about trans people when they think they're 'off the record' or out of earshot of any such persons, is eye-openingly cringe-worthy.

Acceptance in the general society seems for the most part to be state-mandated, and stops behind closed doors.

Quote from: V on July 04, 2016, 05:15:12 PM
Acceptance in the general society seems for the most part to be state-mandated, and stops behind closed doors.

At formerly 6ft tall and big everything I have absolutely NO pretensions of being stealth. Plus my career is.... in a niche business. Not too many many folks in the high voltage high power pulse power business. Especially those those still alive and can know how to make things work. Without a doubt I know my half life is... 2-5 years before "Legitimate business reasons" make me redundant. Being in upper management I know what that euphemism is... "More trouble then you are worth"

I dreamed since the age of 4, to not only have been born born a girl, BUT that EVERYONE never knew me as anything else BUT. Some 55 years later that dream is long shot. However, after the tons of hard work I put into my personal growth, I know that if the day came I can stand tall and proud about who, or what I am.

I refuse to let others dictate how I define ME.  I came too far and worked too hard to get a handle on what it means to actually be Me.

I live in a 3rd world country, Bangkok, Thailand, I live a normal happy, peaceful life and have total acceptance. The reason is that the people have been educated and lived with tg for as long as they can remember. There are no need for laws that define us....in fact they have laws that in the west could be perceived in the West as discriminatory.  They do not allow change in gender on the ID but we are all addressed as Khun be it male or female ...in fact there is no specific address that defines the gender. We are fully respected and referred by the authorities as Katoey the third gender. There is no animosity from the Katoey towards male or females.

I look ar the West and see this agressive TG population that are easily offended when incorrectly addressed and quick scream hate for those who discriminate.  We need to give it time and educate those that don't know.  We have only become prominent in the last few years and it will take a generation ....30 years to change many and time for those hard liners to die.  We cannot rush social change ....we need to educate and educate those that want to learn.  It's already better in the West in the last few years.  But we have a long way to go...acceptance comes from the heart...not by laws...

Quote from: warlockmaker on July 04, 2016, 11:02:09 PM
I live in a 3rd world country, Bangkok, Thailand, I live a normal happy, peaceful life and have total acceptance. The reason is that the people have been educated and lived with tg for as long as they can remember. There are no need for laws that define us....in fact they have laws that in the west could be perceived in the West as discriminatory.  They do not allow change in gender on the ID but we are all addressed as Khun be it male or female ...in fact there is no specific address that defines the gender. We are fully respected and referred by the authorities as Katoey the third gender. There is no animosity from the Katoey towards male or females.

I look ar the West and see this agressive TG population that are easily offended when incorrectly addressed and quick scream hate for those who discriminate.  We need to give it time and educate those that don't know.  We have only become prominent in the last few years and it will take a generation ....30 years to change many and time for those hard liners to die.  We cannot rush social change ....we need to educate and educate those that want to learn.  It's already better in the West in the last few years.  But we have a long way to go...acceptance comes from the heart...not by laws...

is stealth a thing over there?

It's up to the individual to decide...no one cares and as your mind accepts this reality ...then you no longer care. I am proud to be part of a society that accepts me as a 3rd gender. I've lied to myself my whole life and to the people around me and I choose to be open about who I am .

Quote from: warlockmaker on July 05, 2016, 12:20:42 AM
Started HRT 28th March, 2013. GRS, FFS, and BA on 20th January, 2016.

Just curious. What is BA?

BA = breast augmentation.

Ohhh. Thanks Devlyn. Of course! (insert face palm emoji)

General Population acceptance depends very much on geographic area. I live in Washington State. As a whole, I never get any inkling of not being accepted in the Seattle area. There are people in all areas, including where I live, that like to adhere to traditional values and concepts of what makes a man and what makes a woman. But there is something about the West Coast mentality in general I think, and perhaps mostly centered around the metropolitan areas such as Vancouver BC, Seattle WA, Portland OR, and of course San Francisco that as a whole cares less about traditional gender roles and but more about character content as a whole...
I know by the vibe that I get out and about in the general Western Washington area when I am in public as a very happy and content non-binary gender role person dressed in full women's clothes because it is is my comfort zone, people do not seem to care much to focus on what plumbing I have had since birth, but more about my general warmth and openness.
Is this the West Coast? I don't know. But I like living where I do.