Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I'm transitioning MtF, and I'm in my late 30's.  I've always been attracted to women, never men.  But I never married anyone.  I've never even had a steady girlfriend.  I've never hit a home run, to use the baseball metaphor.  In fact I've never even made it to first base!

Thing is, I never had a problem getting dates.  I went to my high school senior prom with the prettiest Asian girl in town (I'm also Asian).  I was pretty darn good looking as a guy, well educated, intelligent... I literally had girls asking me out, and other parents asking me to date their daughters.  People always thought I was a very nice guy too (I've always had a mild temperament).

I don't know why I never pursued a relationship with women.  I wonder if my mind was subconsciously telling me to avoid having to take on a male role in a relationship.  Maybe my subconscious was trying to protect me from gender dysphoria?  I don't know.

In any case, as I'm now 5 months on HRT and pretty much living full-time, I'm beginning to question my sexual orientation.  I still find women attractive, but I'm finding myself less attracted to them sexually.  And I'm starting to consider the possibility of being with a man, for the first time ever.  Somehow, the idea of being with a man (with myself as a woman) seems very appealing in a way.  But I was repulsed by the idea when I was living my life as a man.

Does this make sense?  I guess in a way, my sexual orientation would not be changing, since as a man I was attracted to women, and as a woman I [may] be attracted to men.  But it still seems weird to me that I'd be attracted to a different sex than before.

How common is this type of thing anyway?

Not real common but it happens. The though on it is you might be bisexual and now that it's socially acceptable, you are allowing the thought of being with a man. About half the time married partners remain together through the transition and if the break up, it's because the non transitioning partner has issues.

Hi Emily,

I can very much relate. I was never attracted to men in any way before I transitioned. I present as female part-time. After ten months of HRT, I have found myself the object of mens' interest, and I (usually) like it. I find myself fantasizing about being with a man more and more often. Let's just say it's an interesting possibility now.  I don't think hormones change your sexuality, but I do think they broaden it a bit. :)

With kindness,

Terri

I can totally relate .. I was an Alpha male plus. Married 4 times have 4 children, total playboy of renown.

Now post op I have no intrest. in females sexually and like men.  Also ladyboy with a penis...lol

I think it's quite normal...

Hi

I was married to a woman and had 2 children, no interest in men at all. After hormones I cannot believe that I am sooo attracted to muscular men. I still find women attractive, but want GCS to fulfil my desire to be intimate with a man.

Take care

Love Jools x

I always had a far easier time relating to women then men. Had far more female friends then male. Could not believe the class of women that would date me. Dread hearing the words "You are not like other guys..."

I always seemed to be sexually attracted to women in real life. Sure... I had fantasies. But when fantasy became reality.... Not for me. Guys did nothing for me beyond being able to say "He is  good looking guy" with no emotional buy in.

Today, in a relationship with a woman for over 30 years, seven years on HRT, and a lot of personal growth just to be able to scratch the surface of who I really am, I cannot honestly say I am sexually attracted to women. Envious for sure. Never ever has my thoughts about a woman went to "I want a piece of that". It was always more like "I wish I could half as good in that outfit".

Never having genital dysphoria I've always been pragmatic about them. After all, we've had great times together. Just wish I was the woman instead of me. But hey, you got to work with what you got.

As I grow as a person. As I learn more and more who I really am. As I Un-Learn what I tried to force upon myself, my eye does wonder. Suddenly there are a lot of guys out there that.... look more then just good. Worse, are the dreams. Dreams where I am female are nothing new. Used to be half the time for as long as I can remember. Now they are mostly female, uncomfortably more often with a male friend/lover/love interest.

The greatest fear my wife has of my journey of self discovery is where my true love lies. She is far more realistic then I am. She firmly believes that I will likely want to explore the sexual aspects just as I am learning that in an ideal world my true love lies living as Joanne.

I turned heterosexual after a while, I think it's because of estrogen. But now I am questioning that too... and the reason I question it, is because I used to love woman. Maybe I am Bi, I don't now. I had some bad experience with men in the last years, which makes me appalled by men in some way. But then again, I don't see myself being intimate with another woman again. It's confusing...

2cherry, you sound like my wife, who is bi, has been her whole life. The way she feels about men vs women has to do with what's going on in her life. If she ended a bad relationship with a guy she would only be attracted to women for a while, that sort of thing.

I think hormones can impact your emotions and therefore who you're attracted to, especially if you are bi but who knows, maybe even if you're not. If you have a lifetime pattern of going back and forth, that's known as sexual fluidity and it's very common among bi people.

Pre-transition I was married for many years and had no interest in men whatsoever - I was living a heterosexual life with my wife.

Since then i've transitioned and have been served divorce papers and am dating a trans woman. I've been on hormones for close to 3 years. I haven't experienced what I'd call a "huge" shift in my orientation - I'm still attracted to women - but I have begun to notice that some guys are quite cute and I've also discovered that i'm not hung up about a person's plumbing - who a person is much more interesting to me than what they are.

I'd guess that these feelings we always there and having to live the lie covered them up, or maybe the hormones flipped that switch  :laugh:

I stayed mostly heterosexual. I married a woman before transition and I have to child's. Now I have a boyfriend and I will marry him maybe.

Sounds strange? Not really. It is a huge difference being together with a man with a male body. Being with a man as women feels different. I feel much more feminine when I am together with my boy friend. 

For me I did not change sexual orientation. Still being attracted to women would feel like a change. Although I could have sex with a lesbian I never would consider living together in the same house.

Quote from: Lara1969 on June 14, 2016, 12:04:38 PM
Although I could have sex with a lesbian I never would consider living together in the same house.

Interesting... I feel the exact opposite.  :) not sure yet what that makes me, or maybe I have given up on the labels...

It does happen, before transition the thought being with a man sexual was yuck, ugh!!  But over time men interest in me, hitting on me, I started being attracted to the attention, found it unnerving at first, holding hands with my first boyfriend the first time felt a bit weird, I just went with the feeling, then that moment OMG I'm kissing a man, I'm now a hetrosexual woman, I did eventually married a man, I'm now a woman and it just feels natural for me to be with a man. I would never have thought this possible 30 years ago.

I was always strictly oriented towards women. I spent a lot of time around guys, and there was nothing. Now I feel like women are fun, men are omg :icon_redface:.

Thank you everyone for sharing.  I'm glad I'm not alone in this possibility.  The thought of being with a man who treats me like a woman certainly sounds very appealing to me.  But I've never been with a man so I really don't know what that would actually be like!  hehe

I've been single for a very long time, so I'm sure I could manage continuing to live alone.  But as I get older the thought of being with someone does have a greater appeal.  I think I'm a pretty good catch, so maybe I'll attract the attention of a good man at some point... I'll try to keep an open mind about things and see where it all leads!  :)

Quote from: EmilyMK03 on June 21, 2016, 02:09:35 AM
The thought of being with a man who treats me like a woman certainly sounds very appealing to me. 

That's what changed my attitude and feelings towards men, my husband treats me very much as a woman, he knows my history, but only ever knew me as a woman, spoils me the way a girl should be spoiled, he is a gentleman and it's lovely, strong and takes care of me, I could never get that from another woman.

Quote from: pretty pauline on June 21, 2016, 03:06:39 PM
That's what changed my attitude and feelings towards men, my husband treats me very much as a woman, he knows my history, but only ever knew me as a woman, spoils me the way a girl should be spoiled, he is a gentleman and it's lovely, strong and takes care of me, I could never get that from another woman.

I beg to differ. My wife is kick butt strong :) and takes wonderful care of me. Jk i know you were speaking from your perspective and that is awesome, your husband sounds wonderful.

I apologize that I have nothing to contribute here. I just wanted to say this thread is fascinating. I learned a lot here.

Hi Alex

How about you?

Has transition changed your needs?

You look fab by the way!

Love Jools x

Forgot to add, that my confusion can also come from my borderline/ocd/bipolar. I've heard it's common to be indecisive with these kind of 'metal illnesses'. Where your preference might seemingly change overnight and return the next. With borderline it can be more confused: at one time I fell in love with the opposite sex, not because I wanted to, but because I wanted to feel loved... so I can do things against my will, coupled with this gender dysphoria... it's not pretty.  ;D

Quote from: juliehope on June 22, 2016, 08:23:44 AM
Hi Alex

How about you?

Has transition changed your needs?

You look fab by the way!

Love Jools x

Hi Julie - I'm not transitioning, so this thread really doesn't apply to me. But I find it intriguing that sexual orientation can be altered through hormone therapy. For many, this may seem obvious. But it isn't. Thanks for the compliment, too :)

Hi Alex

Sorry, you look so feminine I assumed you were a long way down the road!

I am not sure that it is the hormones that change our sexuality, it may be a number of factors. Whilst I was never interested in dating men pre transition, I did have a longing to be a woman in bed with a man. This was the only way that I could satisfy the needs of my wife. All very odd!

Ever since I was about 5 or 6  years old I felt different and wanted to be a girl, but it took me 50 years to have the courage to live as my true self.   :)

Take care

Jools x

I've been a practicing bisexual for 20 years now and I'm quite sexist when it comes to males -- I'm only interested in sex with them, not relationship -- the few times I've entertained the idea of sex with any guy I'm close to I emotionally recoil from the prospect.

I've talked a fair bit with my therapist about this, knowing that a fair fraction of mtf girls do in fact go from being attracted to women to become hetero identified is honestly a scary prospect for me.

Now, as I contemplate a surgery date that would be less than a year out, it's hard for me not to notice that in addition to being uncomfortable with having a penis, I'm visualizing being penetrated by men.

Of course I can't really separate out knowing that my gf of nearly 20 years isn't much attracted to women and doesn't do much to help me feel feminine when we engage in sex (she will hold and touch my shoulders, not my breasts). So I'm loading my thinking about the future with a lot of uncertainty as to how our sex life evolves whether I choose to stay with long term HRT or to have SRS and a neovagina.

So, conflicted - I don't know where I'll land and if today is better than pre-hrt, it's still a fairly uncomfortable limbo. I can't realistically think my gf is going to be fulfilled with trading off the strapon.

This is a very common feeling we see in the MTF community to have these thoughts. The way to see if its just a fantasy in the head or something that might be worth pursuing is to find a safe opportunity to have a date and possibly more with a guy.

I had the thoughts you had and was able to have some experiences with men, I realized I was attracted to certain things about guys I didn't fantasize or think about before, and other things were the same, and others were things that made me less attracted to guys.  All of these good and bad were a combination of physical and personality traits. Only when I was physically involved with a man could I realize these traits about me.

An experience with another MTF trans person is another thought. Giving something an actual try beats mentally trying to rationalize or figure it out in the head. Of course many can't do this for various reasons including being in a committed relationship or marriage.

Can we please stop attributing any change to sexual preference to hormones unless you can provide some scientific evidence.. Oh, that's right, there is none.. If hormones could change sexual preference then in all the attempts to "solve" homosexuality, surely some of them would have shown some success.

Before transition, I was a femme gay guy.. Now I am a kinda butch lesbian. I know what triggered the change - it was self acceptance. I'd always known that I wasn't really attracted to men, but playing the part of a femme guy made my life easier. Now, being a lesbian is just me being honest about who I am.

Before HRT I was bisexual but with somewhat more attraction to women. Since starting medical HRT I am still bisexual but now with much more attraction to wonderful MEN.

Prior to age 25 the ONLY intimate sexual relationship I ever had was with my gay boyfriend in high school. This relationship lasted for 2 years at age 16 and age 17. He was always on top. Though I hadn't transitioned to Jennifer at that point, he always penetrated me with him on top and me like the girl on the bottom, front to front.

Since starting medical HRT in 2014 I have had real life in-person sexual relations with about FORTY (40) adult men ranging in age from age 23 to age 70 with most of the men between the age of 30 and the age of 50. Including a dreamy hunky actor from India gawwwd he was a dreamboat hunky and dominant and he ordered exactly what he wanted from me sexually and he sure got what he wanted from me he was a girl's dream. This was in Birmingham England in 2015 I doubt he has forgotten about me as he thoroughly enjoyed himself.

Also since starting medical HRT in 2014 I have had intimate face to face real life sexual relationships with one 25 year old cis girl, about 3 genuine trans girls of various ages, and about 5 or 6 crossdressing men. I have LIVED with several different adult men.

I have formidable skill and experience in post-HRT dating and actual sex. I am the fantasy girly girl for thousands of online men and I am about to become the lovely hostess of my own LIVE internet show, THE JENNIFER SHOW, which will be broadcast worldwide to existing thousands of followers and I aim to bring the number of my documented followers into the tens of thousands. I am in my 50s but I should become successful in doing this. I have already appeared in major national newspapers and television as is well-documented publicly.

MEN are dreamy wonderful.

Jennifer Lopezgomez
July 11, 2016

I haven't found much of anyone all too sexually attractive for several years

I'm not sure if it's because I made it with most of my older sister's friends during my early teens or if it was my X who put the final cap in it

Not really sure why I lost interest in it

Quote from: kelly_aus on July 08, 2016, 05:37:03 PM
Can we please stop attributing any change to sexual preference to hormones unless you can provide some scientific evidence.. Oh, that's right, there is none.. If hormones could change sexual preference then in all the attempts to "solve" homosexuality, surely some of them would have shown some success.

Before transition, I was a femme gay guy.. Now I am a kinda butch lesbian. I know what triggered the change - it was self acceptance. I'd always known that I wasn't really attracted to men, but playing the part of a femme guy made my life easier. Now, being a lesbian is just me being honest about who I am.

Good for you. I think dysphoria is part of it as well. Some of the responses (to me) seem like "I couldn't be with a guy when I was a guy because I was repulsed". I've experienced some of the same dysphoric repulsion and it's gotten a lot better as my body has changed. Sometimes we subconsciously project our own body into mental scenes and if we're dysphoric ... well, that can really be crummy (and revealing).

I don't think it's prima facie ridiculous to think that hormones have an impact because they do change sexuality in the brain and most people experience a change in sexuality during puberty when the hormones hit. Some people don't have an identifiable orientation pre-puberty and others do, for example. It's not the same as "reparative" (quack) therapy because that would have been administering higher levels of endogenous hormones, rather than HRT.

But I think research has shown that trans people are just much more likely to be bisexual than the general population so a "shift" in sexual orientation, even if it's just an expression of that person's lifelong fluidity, would be expected to happen in some cases. Thus we are indeed absent any serious evidence that hormones can change sexual orientation in an adult. Unless you count the degree to which they cure dysphoria and thus that dysphoric gross-out reaction some of us have lived through. But of course that has to do with hormone mediated physical changes and nothing to do with this mysterious effect they have on our brains.

I could still believe that somehow, hormones could change some people's sexual orientations. But I would still need some convincing. Anecdotally, most folk who say they've changed eventually admit they had pretty vivid fantasies long before transition that they hid or rationalized away. And I think I would want to see some science as to why hormones acting on white matter change sexual orientation. There's some evidence that the maturation of white matter could be responsible for trans people coming out later in life. That maturation process could also drive a change or expansion in sexual orientation (hypothetically--after all, we know there are some brain tissue differences between gay and straight men). If that were the case it would happen prior to or at least independently of hormones, but might be attributed to hormones without knowing any better. Just a thought.

Post Trans Rebel Kelly, I'm glad you're on this forum because I've run across a lot of former butch lesbians (who only dated women, natch) who transitioned and started only dating FTM guys, like they went male and gay at the same time (but probably were never lesbians--just thought they belonged there because everyone knows every butch female seeming person is a lesbian). So interesting to find someone who transitioned the opposite way. Society can be quite naive about assuming gender expression = sexual orientation.

I consider myself andro rather than masc on the gender spectrum and that was enough for so many people in my life to declare me not really gay or not really trans. I'm sort of lucky I'm not all that butch because I realized I don't fit into that mold and just sort of stood apart from it. I see a lot of people who identified with the butch community go through a lot of pain coming out as FTM. That wasn't my community to lose, so I really lost nothing.

Quote from: kelly_aus on July 08, 2016, 05:37:03 PM
Can we please stop attributing any change to sexual preference to hormones unless you can provide some scientific evidence.. Oh, that's right, there is none.. If hormones could change sexual preference then in all the attempts to "solve" homosexuality, surely some of them would have shown some success.

Before transition, I was a femme gay guy.. Now I am a kinda butch lesbian. I know what triggered the change - it was self acceptance. I'd always known that I wasn't really attracted to men, but playing the part of a femme guy made my life easier. Now, being a lesbian is just me being honest about who I am.

I don't need to provide medical clinical studies to feel and know that I have much stronger preference for MEN now after 2 years on medical HRT. The reasons for this are likely multiple and complex.

Of my many hundreds of trans friends and many thousands of trans acquaintances over the year, I estimate about a third of my trans female friends and acquaintances are hetero (prefer men), about a third are lesbian (prefer women), and about a third are bisexual (prefer both men and women).

Cheers,
Jennifer xx

Quote from: JenniferLopezgomez on July 11, 2016, 02:01:54 PM
I don't need to provide medical clinical studies to feel and know that I have much stronger preference for MEN now after 2 years on medical HRT. The reasons for this are likely multiple and complex.

No, you don't need to supply such studies - you can't, they don't exist. However, being honest about the changes is a good thing. Too many come here and state that "Hormones changed my sexual preference!" as fact.

Quote from: JenniferLopezgomezOf my many hundreds of trans friends and many thousands of trans acquaintances over the year, I estimate about a third of my trans female friends and acquaintances are hetero (prefer men), about a third are lesbian (prefer women), and about a third are bisexual (prefer both men and women).

Funny how that stat seems to come up regardless of where you do the survey. One done here came out with about those numbers, and others I've seen done on other sites all come out about the same.  Makes me wonder what the stats for the general population really are..

I have known trans people on both sides of the fence on this topic. Some have had their preference change, and others haven't. There is also a middle ground, in which some are only attracted to the same ... such as MTFs only being interested in other MTFs. The latter is why I quit the notion of support groups.

I'm prepared to believe somebody who tells me HRT changed perspective.  I'm prepared to believe somebody who tells me that it was probably just the change in identity that made the change in perspective more acceptable.  I'm prepared to believe an awful lot of explanations. 

In all candor, I'm 19 months into HRT, really only feeling like I've been getting anywhere the last 7, and I'm confused as heck about where I'm going to settle on that spectrum.  Once I get the change in plumbing, what will those options do to my perspective?  I'm so utterly lost on the topic, I'll believe anything anybody wants to tell me about how they sorted it out for themselves.  Except aliens.  Maybe.   

(And I may be hopelessly lost on the subject at the moment, but I'm at peace with the fact that it will work itself out one way or another so I'm not all that bothered, all things considered.) 

Quote from: kelly_aus on July 08, 2016, 05:37:03 PM
Can we please stop attributing any change to sexual preference to hormones unless you can provide some scientific evidence.. Oh, that's right, there is none.. If hormones could change sexual preference then in all the attempts to "solve" homosexuality, surely some of them would have shown some success.

Before transition, I was a femme gay guy.. Now I am a kinda butch lesbian. I know what triggered the change - it was self acceptance. I'd always known that I wasn't really attracted to men, but playing the part of a femme guy made my life easier. Now, being a lesbian is just me being honest about who I am.

That may be, what's interested me in the literature is that early - onset trans people are more often gay-identified prior to transition while late - onset are more likely hetero and both groups tend to keep their partner preference across transition.

I can easily come up with sociological models that would predict this but that would be speculative.

For my part I can say that opening up my sexuality in my early 40s after a shame-ridden upbringing involved discovering that I was trans as well as needing to explore being bi.

I abhor so many male-identified behaviors and part of that is self-hate, the two things feed each other. It's a cycle I've been working to slow or escape for a long time now. Understanding my triggers helps.

It's not comfortable being bi with my fairly deep seated mistrust of men and I really wish men as a group would stop earning that mistrust. For better or worse that sentence was really hard to write, realizing that the only thing I can change in this equation is myself and I'm deeply tired of still having to do it.

That paragraph was interrupted by uncontrollable tears, sobbing (and wondering what neighbors were listening on).

Transition sucks.

Hi All,

I am 63, a part time TGirl, married twice but have always known I am a woman inside and have always been attracted to men sexually as well as having really strong friendships with several guys.  I knew by 5 I wanted to be female, and acted on it at 11, including not only dressing in moms lingerie, but also having sex with my best friend (male) at the time.

The woman in my life have always been the Alpha's - they picked me up.  I could only make love by imagining I was the woman being penetrated and I learned how to pleasure them by thinking of how I wanted to be pleasured.  Having never taken Estrogen in any form, the hormone discussion on sexuality is not one I can comment on, however due to Prostrate Cancer I was given Lupron - a testosterone blocker.  This lead to no more erections (thank goodness - easier to tuck) and a 6 month period of Hot Flashes.  Losing Testosterone didn't kill my libido as I have always wanted lots of sex with men - too scared to do it very often though.  My desire to be the woman with a man has likely strengthened, but I think it has more to do with allowing myself to admit who I am.

I've rambled a bunch - hope this other view helps.

hugs
Franny

I don't think mine has changed at all in any way.  If I am honest with myself I have been attracted to men all along.  However, because of societal and family pressures and being in a profession where it was illegal I decided at an early age not to act on it. 

Now I have been married for a long time and the thought of initiating a divorce or cheating on my wife is unthinkable to me.  Plus I do love her very much and am happy making her happy.  So whatever my orientation is, I am content with what I have.

Anyway, speaking of sexual orientation in the context of trans has always seemed like it quickly devolves into an oxymoron to me.


Sapere Aude

I've always been a Pansexual so I've been attracted to tons of people for various reasons, but mostly into the Female Traits that many carry. Of lately, my brain has like, been having a reset in signals and I've been looking at particular traits in Men vs. Women. It is possible a lot of things have changed that I don't know or understand now about myself exploring my new body as I go along the days. So I don't know am I still a Pansexual or is it possible to be Straight now?! Things are very confusing at times, because I've never dated anyone because of their Sex, Gender, or Identity. Always for their Personality, Emotions, Humor, Goals, Dreams, Aspirations, + other Characteristics and/or Traits.

Quote from: Deborah on July 12, 2016, 09:34:04 AM
Anyway, speaking of sexual orientation in the context of trans has always seemed like it quickly devolves into an oxymoron to me.

The way we talk about it is kind of silly in the context of changing your sex. My sexual orientation hasn't changed but the label has, and nobody finds that weirder than I do.