Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I have booked an appointment at the Zukowski center for a large volume electrolysis session to get rid of my beard. They're similar to E3000, a doctor will inject lidocaine and two technicians are going to clear my face in 2 days. I've also been having a few sessions with a local electrologist to clear the area around my eyebrows. A few days ago I noticed what looks like permanent scarring (pitting/orange peel) that you can see in the picture below and after reading other accounts I'm now terrified. It seems to me that scarring might happen regardless the machine or the experience of the electrologist, I've seen some horrific results on pictures and the people posting them don't even seem to be aware they've been scarred for life! Should I just do laser and minimize the amount of electrolysis? My hir is very dark and coarse. I thought laser wasn't permanent in the sense that the hair treated might grow back but perhaps I misunderstood and laser isn't defined as permanent just because it can't get all the hairs. Do I make sense explaining the difference? Please help, I'm very concerned. I've already paid the deposit but I'd rather lose $800 than being scarred for life.

http://imgur.com/WSYcDtL (http://imgur.com/WSYcDtL)

With a skilled operator, the blend and galvanic method won't scar. The problem is that proper removal is slower than cranking the current up and having at it. One advantage I had of having all my hair removed without pain killer is it helped force a lower setting. If the current was set high, I would have been jumping off the table. Talk to the operator and express your concern over the scaring and learn what they will do to prevent scaring. If they don't take what you feel into consideration, walk out and leave the money.

Somebody else will have to comment on laser because that was a bit before my time.

Thanks for your answer. Considering I have a very dark beard does it even make sense to do electrolysis to remove it? Will it grow back? Laser devices are pretty effective nowadays. I'm reconsidering my choice.

My beard was brown/red like my hair was (Irish side of the family I guess) and the hair was relatively fine but there was a bunch of it. One of the group members was hairy black hair but it was spaced out and not as dense as mine. Clearing went faster with the black hair because there wasn't as much of it. Electrolysis will remove all hair effectively. I haven't had a needle on my face in about 30 years and there are only about a dozen hairs that stick their head up from time to time. I am not going to comment about laser because I honestly don't know. What I do know is if you do laser there is still a good possibility you will need some electrolysis to clean up what laser didn't get. Laser will be far faster and cheaper than electrolysis.

Lazer is intense and will take a few treatments if you have dark hair with no gray you can get some good results but from what I hear you will need to go back and do some touch up clean up in time.
I go back on the 6/18 for my fourth round of treatment and it's a little pricey and unfortunately I have some gray hair that the lazer can't get but I will do electroless next.
I have been asking my self if I would of went with electroless first could I of saved my self a great deal of money you might ask your self that question I found a girl that does electroless at 70 a hour and the lazer I spent 1500 for four treatments

Quote from: Marina325 on June 14, 2016, 09:33:16 PM
I have booked an appointment at the Zukowski center for a large volume electrolysis session to get rid of my beard. They're similar to E3000, a doctor will inject lidocaine and two technicians are going to clear my face in 2 days. I've also been having a few sessions with a local electrologist to clear the area around my eyebrows. A few days ago I noticed what looks like permanent scarring (pitting/orange peel) that you can see in the picture below and after reading other accounts I'm now terrified. It seems to me that scarring might happen regardless the machine or the experience of the electrologist, I've seen some horrific results on pictures and the people posting them don't even seem to be aware they've been scarred for life! Should I just do laser and minimize the amount of electrolysis? My hir is very dark and coarse. I thought laser wasn't permanent in the sense that the hair treated might grow back but perhaps I misunderstood and laser isn't defined as permanent just because it can't get all the hairs. Do I make sense explaining the difference? Please help, I'm very concerned. I've already paid the deposit but I'd rather lose $800 than being scarred for life.

http://imgur.com/WSYcDtL (http://imgur.com/WSYcDtL)

I went to the Zukowski center recently for my first electrolysis appointment. I was hoping to get blend to avoid scarring but one of the techs (Belle) only does thermolysis. I was reading https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,196595.msg1755443.html#msg1755443 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,196595.msg1755443.html#msg1755443) and it seems like Clara's experience was similar to mine.

Has anyone else had experience at the Zukowski center? I'm deciding whether to go back.

Scarring can happen but with an experienced and skilled operator it shouldn't happen.

I have had about 100 hours of electrolysis so far and have one minor spot where there were two ingrown hairs.

I would definitely recommend laser for your dark hair.  Several sessions are needed over the same area, but lots of hairs are treated with one zap.  With electrolysis one hair is treated at a time.

I concur with Dena on the idea of lower power.  I had thought about the all-day put-me-under electrolysis sessions.  On the surface it seems like a good way to do it.  But I would be very worried about scarring.

I am almost done with my hair removal.  I had a salt and pepper mix.  I started with laser, then added electrolysis, but focused the electrolysis on the gray hairs.  I stopped laser once the dark hair was basically gone and have been doing electrolysis since then.  I don't have any scarring.  My electrologist and laser tech (same person) had a lot of experience with transgender clients and was highly recommended.

Also, keep in mind that electrolysis can't treat dormant hair follicles.  Even if the two all-day sessions with Zukowski are months apart, you will still get some re-growth as dormant follicles re-activate.  These will need to be treated.  Laser sessions are typically scheduled about two months apart specifically because of hair growth cycles.

Kim :)

Quote from: KimSails on June 15, 2016, 07:04:07 PM

Also, keep in mind that electrolysis can't treat dormant hair follicles.  Even if the two all-day sessions with Zukowski are months apart, you will still get some re-growth as dormant follicles re-activate.  These will need to be treated.  Laser sessions are typically scheduled about two months apart specifically because of hair growth cycles.

Kim :)

The two days are just for one session. I will have to go there every 6 weeks (ideally), just like for laser, in order to catch all cycles.

The problem I have with laser is that some people seem to complain hair comes back after years.

Quote from: cej on June 15, 2016, 04:34:00 PM
I went to the Zukowski center recently for my first electrolysis appointment. I was hoping to get blend to avoid scarring but one of the techs (Belle) only does thermolysis. I was reading https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,196595.msg1755443.html#msg1755443 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,196595.msg1755443.html#msg1755443) and it seems like Clara's experience was similar to mine.

Has anyone else had experience at the Zukowski center? I'm deciding whether to go back.

Was it a large volume session? Did you develop any scars after the treatment? I expressed my concerns over the phone and both technicians reassured me they will be extra cautious, they said they have successfully treated someone else with my type of skin. I know it's not a guarantee something bad won't happen but that conversation made me feel better.

Facial hair causes me a great deal of distress and I just can't wait years for it to be gone.

Quote from: Marina325 on June 15, 2016, 07:22:26 PM
Was it a large volume session? Did you develop any scars after the treatment? I expressed my concerns over the phone and both technicians reassured me they will be extra cautious, they said they have successfully treated someone else with my type of skin. I know it's not a guarantee something bad won't happen but that conversation made me feel better.

Facial hair causes me a great deal of distress and I just can't wait years for it to be gone.

Yes, it was a large volume session (23 hours). It's probably too soon to tell whether I have scars, because after 9 days there's still noticeable redness and soreness, its totally tolerable but I have no idea what is temporary and what is going to stick around. I look like I'm sunburned. It does make me wonder what kind of damage may be lurking underneath the skin since they didn't prepare me for this long of a recovery period. I didn't get a really good picture of what skin blemishes were there before but I may have some mild hyperpigmentation. (I've been following their aftercare instructions and putting on the healing cream as well as sunscreen and trying to stay out of the sun.)

Quote from: cej on June 15, 2016, 08:26:43 PM
Yes, it was a large volume session (23 hours). It's probably too soon to tell whether I have scars, because after 9 days there's still noticeable redness and soreness, its totally tolerable but I have no idea what is temporary and what is going to stick around. I look like I'm sunburned. It does make me wonder what kind of damage may be lurking underneath the skin since they didn't prepare me for this long of a recovery period. I didn't get a really good picture of what skin blemishes were there before but I may have some mild hyperpigmentation. (I've been following their aftercare instructions and putting on the healing cream as well as sunscreen and trying to stay out of the sun.)

Yeah it's too soon. The redness is normal and should be temporary but I thought it would go away before 9 days. I took one week off work and I was hoping not to draw too much attention when I'll go back. Please keep me posted on your recovery. It seems like there are gonna be risks no matter what.

Following up on this, I did end up going back once more for blend but the second tech I got was new to the Zukowski center (she had never worked there before) and I generally felt pretty uncomfortable that they were still working out the kinks while I was lying there drugged. I asked them what heat setting they were using and they said the maximum heat setting for blend which according to Susan Laird (hairzapper.com) is just the same as thermolysis because the galvanic lye isn't at the right temperature to do it's thing. Again I was too drugged to argue effectively.

After 2 marathons at the Zukowski center and a few hours of thermolysis with a local tech, I couldn't shake the feeling that Susan was better, so I called her up and we did another ~50 hours of galvanic together this summer. It's been slow going but it's affordable, pain is manageable with some help from meds my doctor prescribed, she tells amazing stories that make the time pass quickly, and my skin feels great.

She says that she doesn't think any permanent damage was done in Chicago but she is spending a lot of time removing half-dead "space junk" left over from thermolysis and laser. I would probably have finished faster if I'd just started with galvanic.

Taking a break from electrolysis for awhile so I can do FFS. I'm not done but it feels like I made a lot of progress this summer and I'm optimistic that I haven't done anything terrible to my face. I spent a week in the desert for Burning Man and it was great not having to wrestle with lots of visible facial hair there.

I had 4 volume hair removals at the Zukowski Center.  I had a thick beard, very dense in the chin area.  It took 32 hours to clear my face and neck over two days on the first go around.  That was two years ago.  Belle Brine has recently turned over the operation of the business to Irina Cardos who is, in my opinion, one of best electrologists you'll ever find.  She knows how to avoid skin damage.  After my fourth clearing at Zukowski's I arranged it so that Irina alone did my face and neck.  I had all subsequent clearings done by her at her spa in north Chicago.  I had no damage on the right side of my face where Irina worked, and got a much higher kill rate, too.  The orange peel (no pitting) on my chin that I suffered during those first two or three treatments at Dr. Z's eventually faded.  Irina worked with me to make sure no additional damage occurred.

My advice, if you have very dark hair and light skin is to do laser first to thin out your beard.  Then, go to volume electrolysis.  There will be much less chance of skin damage that way.  You can trust Irina Cardos to do the electrolysis safely.  She listens to your concerns and works with you to get the results you want.  She will do blend as well as flash.  Most of the hair removal I had done over the past several months has been 12-sec blend.  The morning after you couldn't tell I had a 5 hour electrolysis session.

Quote from: Clara Kay on September 06, 2016, 11:07:36 PM
My advice, if you have very dark hair and light skin is to do laser first to thin out your beard.  Then, go to volume electrolysis.  There will be much less chance of skin damage that way.  You can trust Irina Cardos to do the electrolysis safely.  She listens to your concerns and works with you to get the results you want.  She will do blend as well as flash.  Most of the hair removal I had done over the past several months has been 12-sec blend.  The morning after you couldn't tell I had a 5 hour electrolysis session.

Combining our two experiences, I would advise:

* if your hair *isn't* super dark and you have time and money for electrolysis, consider skipping straight to that because you may be done sooner with less damage
* ask your doctor about prescription pain drugs because they were just as good as what I got from Zukowski
* Avoid Belle.
* if you want to use Irina and want to protect your skin, insist on blend and don't use a second tech.
* if you care more about protecting your skin than getting a full clear in the time allotted, make sure your tech knows that BEFORE your appointment and get it in writing

Hi there,

When I first started facial hair removal, I went to Lori at the Papillon Center in New Hope, PA. I had about 15 hours done with her, which considering I only grew facial hair on my upper lip and a little on the chin, was a good amount. Lori was a skilled and friendly operator, and I did not experience any permanent facial scarring. My face was very red, and would scab up for the next few days, and then would return to normal. So as others have mentioned, with a skilled operator, it is possible to experience no scarring. However, having transitioned years ago, having to grow my hair out long enough for electrolysis was emotionally very distressing and embarrassing for me. I basically hid away in the home for days and would make the drive to the center wearing a surgical mask to and from the center to hide the facial hair. I also have a very low pain threshold, which made even the application of anesthesia with the long needle they use make me break out in tears and cry. I knew I couldn't stand the emotional and physical pain of electrolysis for much longer and researched laser hair removal.

Since I had black hair and light skin, I then opted for laser hair removal. While it is not considered "permanent" and  some hairs do grow back, they grow back much softer and lighter and very wispy; and not much comes back when they do. If you are a good candidate for laser hair removal, I would suggest doing about 5 or 6 sessions of laser hair removal then using electrolysis to "touch up" the remaining hairs that grow back after the laser sessions. An added perk of laser hair removal is, if you are like me and hate growing out facial hair for electrolysis, laser treatments require you to shave before hair removal, which greatly reduced the embarrassment I felt when I grew out my facial hair for electrolysis.

In the area where we live, facial laser hair removal is pretty cheap. It cost $175 for the first treatment, and drops in price each subsequent treatment until the final treatment is only $50. Touch ups were $35. You do get the occasional wispy hair growing, but they are easily shaved off or can be permanently removed with electrolysis. Of course if you opt for laser, you should do research to learn about the reputation of the business and the laser they use for the removal. Not all lasers are created equal.