Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi, I'm new here, as well as to the world of transgender discussion, and I've been kindof lurking around this forum reading and trying to find answers to my questions without posting anything that's already been covered. It's been very helpful, but there are a few things I'm still curious about.

First of all, I guess I should get the basics out of the way. I am a lesbian. My SO is actually not even my SO, but my ex fiance who I was recently trying to reunite with, up until she told me she is trans and wants to transition to male. So...he.

It's not even surprising. When we started dating we had this discussion and she (at this point, he was a she) said she did not want to change her body, she just likes being masculine. And I am the one who even helped her decide on her male name. At that point tho, we were very much a lesbian couple and he was a she. I introduced her by her female name and she never corrected me. I just thought the male name we talked about and she used on Facebook was like a nickname or an alterego or something. I didn't know.

NOW, however, he has started coming out as trans to family and friends and has openly asked people to use male pronouns. I believe I'm the only one actually respecting that decision so far. Nobody else seems to take him seriously. But I do. I still love him. Very much. I wanted to be with him again. But I have taken this very hard and I'm honestly not sure why. I am very open minded and trans people don't bother me at all. I am aware there is so much more to gender and sexuality than male or female and gay, straight, or bi. I know better. And I am very connected to him, as a person.

But we have decided we can't be together because technically, he's a straight male and I'm a lesbian. So I reverted back to talking to my ex girlfriend, because I want a lesbian relationship. If I can't be with him, why not, right? I think the shock made me react that way. Like oh well, backup plan. But I keep thinking about him and I miss him so much and I keep finding myself here, searching for lesbian/FTM relationship advice.

Basically, my biggest concern that I haven't seen addressed yet is MY sexuality in the relationship. If I were to decide to be with him, any transition is far off as we don't have money for it. He has to go to counseling for at least 3 months before they even think about testosterone, and t in itself is pricey, not to mention having no way to pay for counseling. He eventually wants both top and bottom surgery. But like I said, that's very far off, if at all. However, I know that it is there in the future at some point and I'm scared how any physical changes on his part will effect us. I'm not attracted to men. I love his female body the way it is. Yes, I love him as a person, which is why I'm making this effort to understand and be his best friend even if we aren't together. But my sexuality is important to me. And what if I don't like him the more he transitions? What if he changes? And I will appear to be in a hetero relationship....I just feel like it would be undoing all of my personal journey to be my true self and be out and proud, just to go back in the closet so to speak.

Is there anyone else who has had these concerns and made it work? Should I keep things as they are and remain close friends but not romantically involved? I just love hi. S much and I can't stop thinking about him and losing him scares me. I've never been connected to someone like this and I don't want to give that up, but I'm so scared of losing myself in the process.

I'm sorry this was so long. I've had nobody to talk to and I'm so torn, it's making me crazy. Any and all feedback is appreciated, thank you so much for reading.

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Welcome to Susan's Place. I am going to get a bit long winded repeating stuff you most likely already know but I don't want you to have gaps in my explanation. Sexual Preference is who you want to go to bed with. It can be heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or asexual. Gender identity is who you want to go to bed as which can be male, female or if you want things really complicated non binary. Both of these are fixed at birth and can't be changed.

You are female/lesbian
Your partner appears to want male heterosexual with all the surgery
This combination would work if you were bisexual or heterosexual but the important thing is that you should not be expected to change the way you are anymore than your SO should be expected to change the way he is.

You can be very accepting of others gender identity and not want them in your bed. There is noting wrong with you being lesbian and not wanting a male in bed with you. It comes down to a decision you will have to make. What will you do if the lotto fairy drops a few million dollars in your lap. Will you be able to stay together or will the money drive you apart. Are you willing to commit to a relationship that possibly has that flaw. Nobody can make that decision other than you.


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Quote from: alphoto on June 19, 2016, 12:15:34 AM
Hi, I'm new here, as well as to the world of transgender discussion, and I've been kindof lurking around this forum reading and trying to find answers to my questions without posting anything that's already been covered. It's been very helpful, but there are a few things I'm still curious about.

First of all, I guess I should get the basics out of the way. I am a lesbian. My SO is actually not even my SO, but my ex fiance who I was recently trying to reunite with, up until she told me she is trans and wants to transition to male. So...he.

It's not even surprising. When we started dating we had this discussion and she (at this point, he was a she) said she did not want to change her body, she just likes being masculine. And I am the one who even helped her decide on her male name. At that point tho, we were very much a lesbian couple and he was a she. I introduced her by her female name and she never corrected me. I just thought the male name we talked about and she used on Facebook was like a nickname or an alterego or something. I didn't know.

NOW, however, he has started coming out as trans to family and friends and has openly asked people to use male pronouns. I believe I'm the only one actually respecting that decision so far. Nobody else seems to take him seriously. But I do. I still love him. Very much. I wanted to be with him again. But I have taken this very hard and I'm honestly not sure why. I am very open minded and trans people don't bother me at all. I am aware there is so much more to gender and sexuality than male or female and gay, straight, or bi. I know better. And I am very connected to him, as a person.

But we have decided we can't be together because technically, he's a straight male and I'm a lesbian. So I reverted back to talking to my ex girlfriend, because I want a lesbian relationship. If I can't be with him, why not, right? I think the shock made me react that way. Like oh well, backup plan. But I keep thinking about him and I miss him so much and I keep finding myself here, searching for lesbian/FTM relationship advice.

Basically, my biggest concern that I haven't seen addressed yet is MY sexuality in the relationship. If I were to decide to be with him, any transition is far off as we don't have money for it. He has to go to counseling for at least 3 months before they even think about testosterone, and t in itself is pricey, not to mention having no way to pay for counseling. He eventually wants both top and bottom surgery. But like I said, that's very far off, if at all. However, I know that it is there in the future at some point and I'm scared how any physical changes on his part will effect us. I'm not attracted to men. I love his female body the way it is. Yes, I love him as a person, which is why I'm making this effort to understand and be his best friend even if we aren't together. But my sexuality is important to me. And what if I don't like him the more he transitions? What if he changes? And I will appear to be in a hetero relationship....I just feel like it would be undoing all of my personal journey to be my true self and be out and proud, just to go back in the closet so to speak.

Is there anyone else who has had these concerns and made it work? Should I keep things as they are and remain close friends but not romantically involved? I just love hi. S much and I can't stop thinking about him and losing him scares me. I've never been connected to someone like this and I don't want to give that up, but I'm so scared of losing myself in the process.

I'm sorry this was so long. I've had nobody to talk to and I'm so torn, it's making me crazy. Any and all feedback is appreciated, thank you so much for reading.

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Hi
Welcome:) your story reminds me much of my own! Which you will find under the tread "I feel lost". The reason I separated from my partner is I didn't take the time to understand trans stuff so to speak. I also was worried about my sexuality and the fact I was only attracted to males! I have realized and we're 8 months down the track... That I made a mistake and that I loved her (she is m2f) regardless of gender and body parts. My best suggestion is to take the time to think about what you really want and how much your special person means to you, whilst staying true to you:) this is a trying time.... Dig deep within yourself and you will find the answers you need.
There is loads of support here:)
Marie


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Quote from: Dena on June 19, 2016, 01:57:40 AM
You are female/lesbian
Your partner appears to want male heterosexual with all the surgery
This combination would work if you were bisexual or heterosexual but the important thing is that you should not be expected to change the way you are anymore than your SO should be expected to change the way he is.

But am I still a lesbian if I'm with him? And I get confused anyway because like I said, it'd be a while before his body matches his head. So for intercourse purposes, I'd still be with a woman, physically. It's just confusing to me, I hope nobody takes offense.

Quote from: Marienz on June 19, 2016, 02:26:52 AM
I also was worried about my sexuality and the fact I was only attracted to males! I have realized and we're 8 months down the track... That I made a mistake and that I loved her (she is m2f) regardless of gender and body parts. My best suggestion is to take the time to think about what you really want and how much your special person means to you, whilst staying true to you:) this is a trying time.... Dig deep within yourself and you will find the answers you need.

Thank you so much for your understanding. May I ask how you came to realize you loved her in spite of only being attracted to males? Are you still attracted to her? How do you stay true to your sexuality if you're with someone you wouldn't normally be with?

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Quote from: alphoto on June 19, 2016, 03:15:59 AM



Thank you so much for your understanding. May I ask how you came to realize you loved her in spite of only being attracted to males? Are you still attracted to her? How do you stay true to your sexuality if you're with someone you wouldn't normally be with?

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Hi
We separated 7 weeks after she came out to me, we sold our house and split out combined life's! I reacted badly when she told me that she was trans and didn't think things through at all! We're still best friends.
In answer to your question... Yes when I see her dressed as a her, I love it, I find her sexy and attractive, easy to talk to and an amazing person! I often find myself looking at her. We had allot of intimate moments after she came out, with her dressed as her and I liked it allot! I never thought I would. I left as I freaked out and didn't think things through at all!
So as for your question staying true to me, well we're not together and if we were, I would know in my heart that it feels true to me as I love her for everything she is, inside and outside.
But that's my story, each person here is different and only you know in your heart what you can and cannot do and live with:)


Significant other
Heterosexual woman

Quote from: alphoto on June 19, 2016, 03:15:59 AM
But am I still a lesbian if I'm with him? And I get confused anyway because like I said, it'd be a while before his body matches his head. So for intercourse purposes, I'd still be with a woman, physically. It's just confusing to me, I hope nobody takes offense.

This gets into some really knotty terminology. He has always been a him but he may not have always known it. The body was born female but the mind wasn't. I grew up in a time when commitments were supposed to be life time and couples often didn't separate even when their marriage was in the tanks. Now it's not uncommon to find people who have been married 2 or 3 times. How many of the changes will you be able to live with and will your partner continue to deliver what you require? Will you be able to deliver what your partner will want? Are both of you willing to live with a short term relationship or are you looking at  a long term commitment?

Your partner is being honest with you and most likely telling you what he currently knows. There may be a few surprises that he is learning about but it's a good foundation for a long term commitment. You need to be just as honest about what you want out of the relationship. If there are things you will no longer be able to get, can you still be happy?

Something that Marienz posted about but hasn't come up is her partner knew a long time before they entered their relationship. When her SO came out, there were boxes of feminine clothing hidden all over the place so the secret life had been going on for a long time. I think this dishonesty contributed a good deal to the breakup.

If what you want out of the relationship is sex, you may be able to have that for a while and longer if you can accept the changes. If you want the emotional commitment, that can be life time.

We can delude ourself as to what the truth is. If you think of your partners as female because of the outer wrapping, that will work for a while but what happens when the wrapping comes off?

Thank you both so much for your input, it's helpful.

Quote from: Marienz on June 19, 2016, 03:41:50 AM
So as for your question staying true to me, well we're not together and if we were, I would know in my heart that it feels true to me as I love her for everything she is, inside and outside.

I'm sorry I misunderstood, I assumed you were still together. I searched for your post and read it, thank you for sharing your experience.

Quote from: Dena on June 19, 2016, 12:11:03 PM
If what you want out of the relationship is sex, you may be able to have that for a while and longer if you can accept the changes. If you want the emotional commitment, that can be life time.

We can delude ourself as to what the truth is. If you think of your partners as female because of the outer wrapping, that will work for a while but what happens when the wrapping comes off?

Our relationship isn't just built on sex, obviously it's a component of our relationship and it's the main one I'm worried about changing, however far off in the future it is. I don't mean to be too graphic, but we've always had amazing sex. We fit so well together and I'm worried that particular branch of chemistry will dissipate.

We were engaged last year before he left me because he got cold feet. Our wedding was supposed to be in 3 months, so when we were talking about getting back together, we were thinking long term, even considering going to the courthouse to get married like we had originally planned, and then he threw this curveball.

But that's essentially why I'm reconsidering how I reacted and trying to gather information, because when I said yes last year to the proposal, I meant it. There are reasons I want to marry him and those aren't changing because they're who he is as a person. Sex is just a part of it.

The female vs. male thing is where I start to get confused. I can change the pronouns and the name I use when referring to him, but how do I switch from thinking of him as a woman to a man? To me, he's a woman. I dated and fell in love with a woman. A very butch or masculine woman, but still a woman. His body is female, although also admittedly rather masculine. How do I change my thinking from "I love my girlfriend" to "I love my boyfriend" and make him feel like a man if I'm having trouble figuring out how to even see him that way? Especially if it will likely be years before he undergoes any physical changes and our sex life likely won't change much, save for the addition of a strap on, which I am ok with.



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Quote from: alphoto on June 19, 2016, 01:23:26 PM
The female vs. male thing is where I start to get confused. I can change the pronouns and the name I use when referring to him, but how do I switch from thinking of him as a woman to a man? To me, he's a woman. I dated and fell in love with a woman. A very butch or masculine woman, but still a woman. His body is female, although also admittedly rather masculine. How do I change my thinking from "I love my girlfriend" to "I love my boyfriend" and make him feel like a man if I'm having trouble figuring out how to even see him that way? Especially if it will likely be years before he undergoes any physical changes and our sex life likely won't change much, save for the addition of a strap on, which I am ok with.

Your perception may never change or it may take a long time. My mother misgendered me for years including one time we were in the woman's tall shop buying me some nice outfits. The pages of this site are littered with stories of people who were or are misgendered.  Those of us who are transgendered can "see" a person as the gender they wish to be as soon as we are told. For you it will be much more difficult as you have known your SO for a long time. After he starts Testosterone the changes will happen fast and it will be less difficult for you to see the male but the memory will remain.
Your partners willingness to accept your difficulty in adjusting will be one of the things that will help determine if you remain together. Just be forwarded that Testosterone is far more effective in the FTM than Estrogen is in the MTF so the changes will be striking.

I have a link of something that is currently happening that will show you much of what you are thinking about.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,211119.0.html

Hi
I would agree with Dena, your special someone is being very honest with you:)
Look within yourself to see what you need for your life:)
You mention further up that there were reasons you wanted to marry him and those won't change.. The big question is, is what do you want:) sometimes that can be hard to figure out.


Significant other
Heterosexual woman

You can identify any which way you please as long as you (1) understand that he is male, and (2) would still want to be in a relationship with him if he were to move forward with any degree of medical transition. I think it takes a little while for people to mentally make that adjustment and recognize someone as their declared gender. It becomes a lot easier when they are on hormones and you see the changes that are occurring. You just feel silly for thinking of them as anything but.

It does us no good to get too hung up on labels. You like who you like. Don't deny yourself something that might make you happy long term just because of a single part of your identity. I'd say give it a shot. You'll know fairly quickly if it's not going to be something you can sustain.

Hello! That sounds so much like my partner and I. We have been together for going on 12 years now and married for 8 of those. My partner has always been very Butch and also masculine, and like you, I desire a female body. I identify as Queer Femme, so masculinity is really not a turn off at all for me, however the whole taking T, growing whiskers and generally becoming a male body individual is not something I have been looking forward to.

Lately, they have said they don't want to have bottom surgery but top surgery is a must and T is still 'on the table'. We have had lots and lots of open communication. I can't say I was entirely suprised that they wanted to do some more about presenting more masculine, I know they looked into it as a teenager, but in the 80's you just didn't DO that. So, now, at 48 we are going to address this again, and who knows where we are going. So far they are binding, and I have had to take it up so it fits better, so it's not like I am not going on this journey as well. I also see much more masculine presentation and behaviors, more so than before so that has changed as well. So far, they have identified as Non Binary, so depending on the company we keep they identify as They/Them, He/Him or She/Her.

So, back to the more masculine presenting and binding. I must say, suprisingly, I find them very sexy and attractive when presenting this way. I think it is because they seem so much more sure of themselves and confident. Also, I have determined after much thought, I will ALWAYS be Queer Femme, no matter who I date or what sex I date. I choose my label and no one else does so. Even if my partner chooses to go all the way to change, I will stay with them, but not seek out another male to date, so nothing changes with me.

Quote from: FTMax on June 19, 2016, 06:41:01 PM
You can identify any which way you please as long as you (1) understand that he is male, and (2) would still want to be in a relationship with him if he were to move forward with any degree of medical transition. I think it takes a little while for people to mentally make that adjustment and recognize someone as their declared gender. It becomes a lot easier when they are on hormones and you see the changes that are occurring. You just feel silly for thinking of them as anything but.

It does us no good to get too hung up on labels. You like who you like. Don't deny yourself something that might make you happy long term just because of a single part of your identity. I'd say give it a shot. You'll know fairly quickly if it's not going to be something you can sustain.

I think it would honestly take me a while to get used to him being a male, just because I've known him for 8 years and we were friends long before we dated. But we did date as teenagers and again last year and got engaged. It's just a long history of him being a her, to me. But it would probably get easier to make that switch once he starts T. It's just that I know that's still a ways off and until then, I'm scared my confusion with being a male but having a female body would effect how I see him, as far as still thinking of him as a her. I don't know, though.

And as far as labels go, I've never been one to conform to labels. I've changed how I identify many times already. I'm just more comfortable identifying as lesbian than I ever have been as anything else. It feels like who I am and I guess I don't want to sacrifice that or lose sight of that. It's all just very confusing to me.

Quote from: Feminator on June 19, 2016, 08:59:05 PM
Hello! That sounds so much like my partner and I. We have been together for going on 12 years now and married for 8 of those. My partner has always been very Butch and also masculine, and like you, I desire a female body. I identify as Queer Femme, so masculinity is really not a turn off at all for me, however the whole taking T, growing whiskers and generally becoming a male body individual is not something I have been looking forward to.

Lately, they have said they don't want to have bottom surgery but top surgery is a must and T is still 'on the table'. We have had lots and lots of open communication. I can't say I was entirely suprised that they wanted to do some more about presenting more masculine, I know they looked into it as a teenager, but in the 80's you just didn't DO that. So, now, at 48 we are going to address this again, and who knows where we are going. So far they are binding, and I have had to take it up so it fits better, so it's not like I am not going on this journey as well. I also see much more masculine presentation and behaviors, more so than before so that has changed as well. So far, they have identified as Non Binary, so depending on the company we keep they identify as They/Them, He/Him or She/Her.

So, back to the more masculine presenting and binding. I must say, suprisingly, I find them very sexy and attractive when presenting this way. I think it is because they seem so much more sure of themselves and confident. Also, I have determined after much thought, I will ALWAYS be Queer Femme, no matter who I date or what sex I date. I choose my label and no one else does so. Even if my partner chooses to go all the way to change, I will stay with them, but not seek out another male to date, so nothing changes with me.

He says he wants bottom surgery, but that may not ever be realistic just because of cost. I know he wants top surgery tho. He already walks around shirtless around friends anyway, it's just boobs and he doesn't care. Lol But we have had very open communication and I have been thinking of asking him if he would be open to just using a packer that is also used for intimacy and stp to get used to it and see how that makes him feel. There are still conversations I feel like we need to have, but like FTMax said, he makes me happy and always has, idk if I can lose that just because I'm scared. Maybe I will give it a shot. I just need to talk to him some more and figure out my feelings.

My big problem with deciding if I can handle the transition tho is that I'm about to be 27 and I still don't know what I want to do with my life. I dont have a degree, I can't decide what to study or where to work or if I want to stay in my hometown. I barely know what I want to eat for dinner, how am I supposed to figure out if I can do this long term?

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QuoteHe says he wants bottom surgery, but that may not ever be realistic just because of cost. I know he wants top surgery tho. He already walks around shirtless around friends anyway, it's just boobs and he doesn't care. Lol But we have had very open communication and I have been thinking of asking him if he would be open to just using a packer that is also used for intimacy and stp to get used to it and see how that makes him feel. There are still conversations I feel like we need to have, but like FTMax said, he makes me happy and always has, idk if I can lose that just because I'm scared. Maybe I will give it a shot. I just need to talk to him some more and figure out my feelings.

My big problem with deciding if I can handle the transition tho is that I'm about to be 27 and I still don't know what I want to do with my life. I dont have a degree, I can't decide what to study or where to work or if I want to stay in my hometown. I barely know what I want to eat for dinner, how am I supposed to figure out if I can do this long term?

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It's been a long thought process for me as well. Like I recently told my Partner, I only really have the choice of staying or going and I am not going so it looks like we are going together. I really feel as if this is all about them, at this point. Their pronouns, their feelings, their presentation and I feel as if I am out and have no support with all of these changes due to lack of SO trans support groups. I have been corrected and policed by other Trans folk about my Partners choice of pronouns. Their not choosing one specifically causes me grief because no matter what group I am in, I am incorrect about something. It has been somewhat difficult. The thing you need to figure out is 1)is this person the ONE? 2) are you willing to go on this journey with them and support them 100%? and 3) do you want to carve a life together the two of you?. If the answers are yes to all of them, you are able to make this with them and can do it in the long term.

 The thing you need to figure out is 1)is this person the ONE? 2) are you willing to go on this journey with them and support them 100%? and 3) do you want to carve a life together the two of you?. If the answers are yes to all of them, you are able to make this with them and can do it in the long term.
[/quote]
Thought provoking! I can answer yes to all of those...NOW...but I couldn't when I needed to... :)

Quote from: Feminator on June 20, 2016, 07:49:05 PM
It's been a long thought process for me as well. Like I recently told my Partner, I only really have the choice of staying or going and I am not going so it looks like we are going together. I really feel as if this is all about them, at this point. Their pronouns, their feelings, their presentation and I feel as if I am out and have no support with all of these changes due to lack of SO trans support groups. I have been corrected and policed by other Trans folk about my Partners choice of pronouns. Their not choosing one specifically causes me grief because no matter what group I am in, I am incorrect about something. It has been somewhat difficult. The thing you need to figure out is 1)is this person the ONE? 2) are you willing to go on this journey with them and support them 100%? and 3) do you want to carve a life together the two of you?. If the answers are yes to all of them, you are able to make this with them and can do it in the long term.

That was a great post. Really. I do feel like my decision making process is a bit dominated by him and his feelings and if I can handle all of this or not, it's all centered around him. But that's ok, it's kindof a big deal.

And I realize you weren't expecting real answers, but to answer the questions...
1) I've thought this person is the one for a while, otherwise would not have said yes last year, been so heartbroken after the split, tried to reunite, or been so supportive about this.
2) I'm willing to go on this journey even if we aren't together. He's my best friend. And he said I'm the only person who actually talks to him about this stuff and takes him seriously and has been this supportive.
3) I wanted to make a life for us when I said yes. Still do.

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Quote from: Marienz on June 20, 2016, 08:09:58 PM
The thing you need to figure out is 1)is this person the ONE? 2) are you willing to go on this journey with them and support them 100%? and 3) do you want to carve a life together the two of you?. If the answers are yes to all of them, you are able to make this with them and can do it in the long term.

Thought provoking! I can answer yes to all of those...NOW...but I couldn't when I needed to... :)

This is why I say it is a journey for both of us. It takes time to make sure they are the one. We evolve as they do. Or more aptly, we change because we want to continue to be in their lives.

Quote from: Feminator on June 25, 2016, 06:56:49 PM
This is why I say it is a journey for both of us. It takes time to make sure they are the one. We evolve as they do. Or more aptly, we change because we want to continue to be in their lives.

I honestly couldn't agree more:)