Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hello, I am new here, so I apologise if this post is in the 'wrong place'.
But I struggle a lot with this subject.
I am a 13 years post-op female, and in this time I've had a few hobbies/interests and I do tend to flit about Between them all.
Currently I am into model engineering and have built a workshop with my fella and we've equipped it with machine tools and are engaged in building and restoring large scale steam locomotives. The kind you can ride behind.
I would say that this, plus driving said steam locos are basically my main hobby.
I'm in a local model engineering club, and I'm the only female. Yes there are other female members, but they are only there because they are wives of male members.
Although I really enjoy this hobby, I do have bouts of anxiety and loss of confidence because it's really such a male-dominated hobby, and I sometimes wonder "What on earth am I doing here?" As it's not helping me fit into society as a woman very much.
I am also into Transformers - Yes I love my Robots in Disguise figure collection, this is another hobby I share with my fella.
Previously hobbies/interests I've had (all post-op) include:
Aviation, as I used to fly light aircraft, and indeed I owned and ran my own commercial flight training school.
Classic Cars, I used own quite a few old Land Rovers and Range Rovers, and was quite the authority on the subject.
Drumming, I used to play the drums, and indeed I used to design and build my own drums.
Writing, I still come back to this every now and then, mainly on Fanfiction.

I won't list the hobbies/interests I had pre-op, basically it's another long list of mainly male-dominated hobbies.

Any ideas how I can deal with my worry about having mostly male interests? My Mother is always trying to get me to do more girly things with her, like cooking, home-making, clothes, etc... And whilst I don't mind any of these things, that's basically because I enjoy spending time with my Mom as a woman. I guess trying to claw back "lost" years of my childhood before my transition.
I know folks are probably going to say things like just enjoy being yourself, but there is a niggling thought in the back of my mind that keeps on saying that I'm not really a female if I like all these "guy things".
Yeah, it's a pathetic thing to think, but I do have trouble dealing with it.

I have never liked distinguishing between "male and female" hobbies. A hobby should be something you like doing and gives you satisfaction.

If you look around here, there have been discussions on welding, home remodel and many other hobbies in non-traditional gender roles. I am certainly not planning to give up on any of my hobbies.

So - keep on engineering and play with transformers!

I regularly wrench on cars, build tech gear, and restore old electronics. I have a ham radio license. I use power tools. I also tend to not give a damn about what stereotypes society thinks I should adhere to.  ;)

I wouldn't worry about what gender a hobby belongs to.  There is a fellow named Roosevelt (Rosie) Greer whose hobbies have included crushing quarterbacks as a member of the Los Angeles Rams front line the Fearsome Foursome and off the field doing needlepoint.  There are also a number of us here, as discussed in another thread who collect firearms.  The purpose of a hobby is give you something to relax with and if your trains relax you, then keep working on them and have fun.

I don't like to attach gender labels to hobbies or occupations.

I have been woodworking and making furniture since I was a kid. When my daughter took an interest, I was happy to let her join me in the workshop and taught her everything she wanted to know.
Some people might say, "but that's a boy's hobby!" and try to limit my daughter to more traditionally girly activities. I find that attitude offensive and would defend her right to engage in a hobby that she enjoys.

Why wouldn't I take the same stand for myself? I feel it is important to live all our values for all people to be free to express themselves as they see fit. Granted, woodworking is a minor thing compared to dressing as we like, but still it is all part of an effort to erode the societal misogyny we find in the world today.

Nobody bats an eye when genetic girls have those hobbies, so go for it. For myself, I do not try to separate male and female conventions, but to blend them.

Don't worry about whether they're male dominated or not. Just remember we transition so that we can live a happier life as the gender identity that we are. Don't let something like feminine or masculine labels keep you from enjoying your hobbies. Also keep in mind that if enough women participate in a male dominated hobby, then it would cease to be male dominated. ;)

You're right, it is pathetic.. but I get it. You really shouldn't gender your hobbies. I doubt it affects your passability, but even if there was that potential, I think you need to see what's a priority in your life and what makes you the happiest. If you pass but are worried you won't but enjoy your hobbies, does this seem better than feeling like you pass absolutely but sacrificing hobbies you enjoy? To me the latter sounds incredibly stupid. And who would you be trying to impress here by not indulging in these hobbies? Other women? Because I can tell you one thing, guys typically like it when ladies can enjoy and participate in things that they like. It makes you the 'cool chick'. If it's to convince other women, then your efforts are misplaced, and consider that women judge each other anyway. Honestly, the thing that bothers me the most about this is the gendering of your hobbies. Strict gender roles and patriarchal attitudes are why men and women are seen as having specific and gendered interests. Fact is, if more girls were encouraged to pursue and enjoy STEM interests, they would. But no, even now many young women's brains are polluted with the pursuit of looking good for men and making babies for them. I'm thankful that more women are getting into STEM fields these days. I'm interested in quite a few 'typically male hobbies' but I don't think it diminishes me as a woman. On the contrary, I feel empowered. I'm glad I was able to pursue these interests at a young age without being discouraged. I see myself as a woman who simply wasn't held back by misogynistic attitudes. I'm not afraid to be a confident and intelligent woman who proudly expresses her interests, and neither should you.

Ride an HD Sportster, go to classic car & bike shows, sometimes work on cars & bikes, love muscle cars but now they're out of my price range(unless I become a CEO or rock star)  Listen to punk & metal & go to the punk festival each year. I'm not a proper transexual according to some!

Yes, that's totally okay... but... it seems that you need female companionship.

When I read your post, I see a need for validation of your legitimacy as a female.  And, of course, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that need.  But the question is, how can you get that validation in life?  For me, the obvious answer is having female friends.  I've assembled a posse of local transgender folk that attend local support groups, and we have great fun together; we validate eachother... we get a break from cisnormativity at least once a week.  It really makes a world of difference.

Large scale steam locomotives sounds amazing. All my interests and hobbies are male dominated. Makes me sad when people stop doing what they enjoy.

Thank you for all the replies. There doesn't seem to be a multi-quote feature for replying to numerous posts (or if there is, I can't find it).
But I will say that I wasn't trying to judge other people here, or disapprove of their hobbies.
My fella and I go to a few model engineering shows and exhibitions each year (indeed I help to run and exhibit at some), and it's always totally male dominated. In fact in all my years of going to such shows, I have only met 5 women who are model engineers like me, and three of them were transgendered. Compare that to 1000's of guys I've met, female model engineers are such a tiny minority.
When guys speak to us at the shows, they always address my fella as they assume I'm not interested in the subject and know nothing about it. I don't mind this, as it reinforces to me that I pass. My fella finds it hilarious as he knows it's me who's more into the subject than him. I sometimes get him to ask questions on my behalf or push to the front to get items I want, as I'm usually ignored.
But it does take a lot of my confidence to partake, as when folks find out I'm not just a bored wife being dragged around by hubby, inevitably I'm suddenly in the limelight and being asked lots of questions because I'm such a rarity in these circles. I've lost track of the number of times guys have asked me to marry them/proposed, as they like the idea of sharing their life interests with a female partner.

I am certainly not trying to impress anyone, but I won't deny, I get on with guys better than women, and generally like being around men.

None of the above reinforces my femininity though.
I lack female friends, and I suppose I do need validation of my legitimacy as a female among women.
I do have female friends, and I'm fine spending time with them, but I never feel I really "click" as 'one of the girls'. Especially when they talk to me about experiences that I've never had, like 'time of the month problems' and childbirth and being a mum. I try to blag it through as best I can, but still end up feeling an outsider. It doesn't help that people usually see me with my fella and his young son, and just assume it's my child. It's nice, that people see me like that of course, but I do feel pangs of guilt and angst that it's not 100% reality.
Anyway, I've strayed massively off topic, and I apologise for that.

In order to raise my spirits and because I love my hobby, I've been tool shopping again, and have treated myself to some nice kit for the workshop.

I guess after so many years of being in 100% 'stealth', I find I just really need to talk about the things that affect me as a transexual woman.

It kind of sounds to me like you're still clinging to being a 'transsexual woman' and not fully embracing being a woman. I think you'll find that if you relax and let it go, you'll find things to relate to. One thing that should be obvious is dealing with casual sexism like you experience. This is something most women can relate to and might get your foot in the door, so to speak. It makes me cringe when you say you just let your husband talk for you about YOUR hobby, and let them assume you know nothing. What makes it even worse is that you feel like revealing your interest in this stuff would somehow make you less passable. That's implying a lot about women, and it's not a good thing. I hope you'll come to realize that perpetuating these sexist attitudes is bad for everyone.

Hey Ashley, maybe I'm just digging a big 'ol hole for myself, and clearly annoying you as well. So maybe I should just keep schtum?
Maybe I am 'clinging' to being a "transexual woman", but that's only because that is what I am. I cannot be what I am not.
I fear that if I truly relax, things will unravel and I'll just 'out' myself unintentionally and spectacularly crash and burn.
But whatever, I wasn't trying to perpetuate sexist attitudes, I was just trying to discuss my fears and concerns on a message board.
Sorry to have offended.

Anytime you and your significant other can enjoy spending time together doing something you both like doing, I'd say that trumps any and all other considerations.   

Quote from: V on July 03, 2016, 06:24:34 PM
Hey Ashley, maybe I'm just digging a big 'ol hole for myself, and clearly annoying you as well. So maybe I should just keep schtum?
Maybe I am 'clinging' to being a "transexual woman", but that's only because that is what I am. I cannot be what I am not.
I fear that if I truly relax, things will unravel and I'll just 'out' myself unintentionally and spectacularly crash and burn.
But whatever, I wasn't trying to perpetuate sexist attitudes, I was just trying to discuss my fears and concerns on a message board.
Sorry to have offended.

I'm not trying to attack you or anything. You posted and I responded. If you take anything from what I said, great. If not, well it's more your problem than mine I suppose.

Do what makes you happy.

You might find this YouTube channel helpful. She's trans and seriously into racing cars.

https://www.youtube.com/user/Charlie247Girl/videos

chicks can and do have the same hobbies as men.

Quote from: Michelle_P on July 01, 2016, 09:53:19 AM
I regularly wrench on cars, build tech gear, and restore old electronics. I have a ham radio license. I use power tools. I also tend to not give a damn about what stereotypes society thinks I should adhere to.  ;)

Awesome. I absolutely agree. I am not post-op but I still love the same traditionally female things I loved before coming out as a man. My goodness, but it hardly matters. Hobbies are hobbies. It's a shame people to this day will apply gender even to things as universal as a freakin' hobby. Goodness. Thank you Society for the Gender Box. :P

Quote from: Ashey on July 04, 2016, 01:14:23 AM
I'm not trying to attack you or anything. You posted and I responded. If you take anything from what I said, great. If not, well it's more your problem than mine I suppose.

Hey Ashey.  Just so you know, you're pretty blunt.  People can get offended by that, or mistakenly think that you're offended.  I've seen that happen with you a couple of times now.  With a little care in phrasing, you could be a more effective communicator.

Quote from: sparrow on July 06, 2016, 12:52:32 AM
Hey Ashey.  Just so you know, you're pretty blunt.  People can get offended by that, or mistakenly think that you're offended.  I've seen that happen with you a couple of times now.  With a little care in phrasing, you could be a more effective communicator.

I know am blunt. However, what you're suggesting isn't about being an effective communicator, because getting to the point is perfectly effective; more so than sugar-coating or beating around the bush. I've learned that people can be offended by anything, so I don't bother so much with 'careful phrasing'. That said I also don't go out of my way to be rude. I just don't believe I need to walk on eggshells here. I'm sure she's tougher than that, and I wasn't too harsh anyway. She deals with participating in a male-dominated hobby, as well as being stealth. So I give her credit there, certainly. You should too. If she's truly bothered by my words then she can PM me.

Well, from what I kind of sense, I think you need female validation, I could be wrong, hanging out with girl pals a lot more. Another thing is that I have seen cis females go into male dominated fields, like aircraft mechanics, automotive and diesel mechanics, nowadays women are at times crossing over into male dominated areas, seen that in school and in the military. Some of my hobbies are male dominated areas, like military history(i.e. I'm also former USMC), more akin to weapons and fieldcraft of all eras, automotive, and diesel mechanics(i.e. all school trained), plus cooking nowadays, since well I do like to eat at good and its awesome to be able to eat what I want, when I want.

I know I suffer from female validation, but well, I'm in school right now, for my 2nd M.A. and super busy to socialize now, is my take on this, unless you really enjoy your current hobbies. I know I need female validation, since my first M.A. was in Gen. Psych. so I can piece together the behavioral puzzle of myself.

Questions like this always grind my gears a bit. OF COURSE it's "OK" to do whatever it is that makes you happy. Asking permission (permission from whom? the hive mind? cis folks? 'society'? heteronormative folk?) is so weird to me. Just do what makes you...YOU...happy. Don't live for other people's permission. Life is waaaaaay to short for that.

I kinda regret posting this topic now, as it does seem to have gotten some folk slightly riled.
That was not my intention at all, it's a difficult issue in my mind, and one I've not been able to figure out. However daft that appears to some.

Quote from: sparrow on July 06, 2016, 12:52:32 AM
Hey Ashey.  Just so you know, you're pretty blunt.  People can get offended by that, or mistakenly think that you're offended.  I've seen that happen with you a couple of times now.  With a little care in phrasing, you could be a more effective communicator.

Hi Sparrow, yeah I thought Ashley was being blunt. But then I guess that's just her way I suppose. I didn't want to get into an online slanging match, and with most confrontational situations, I just turn and go the other way. So I didn't respond to her.
She said that it's more my problem than hers, well of course it is. It's very much my problem, and it's been causing me some internal confusion and distress that I have not been able to work through on my own. I certainly can't talk about it with cis-gendered folk, as all that would do is 'out' me to them. Hence my post on here.

Quote from: SonadoraXVX on July 06, 2016, 02:41:07 AM
Well, from what I kind of sense, I think you need female validation, I could be wrong, hanging out with girl pals a lot more. Another thing is that I have seen cis females go into male dominated fields, like aircraft mechanics, automotive and diesel mechanics, nowadays women are at times crossing over into male dominated areas, seen that in school and in the military. Some of my hobbies are male dominated areas, like military history(i.e. I'm also former USMC), more akin to weapons and fieldcraft of all eras, automotive, and diesel mechanics(i.e. all school trained), plus cooking nowadays, since well I do like to eat at good and its awesome to be able to eat what I want, when I want.

I know I suffer from female validation, but well, I'm in school right now, for my 2nd M.A. and super busy to socialize now, is my take on this, unless you really enjoy your current hobbies. I know I need female validation, since my first M.A. was in Gen. Psych. so I can piece together the behavioral puzzle of myself.

Hi Sonadora, yes I think you are right. But in seeking female validation, I feel I have to conform to certain gender binaries that feel forced and not natural to me. On the other hand, enjoying what I've traditionally always enjoyed has had it's consequences too. I have observed that when I'm at the controls of some ancient anachronistic machine, with the sole purpose of getting covered in as much grime and oil as possible, I really and truly relax and enjoy myself. And my voice goes straight back to it's masculine levels, and my mannerisms go back to "bloke mode", with the inevitable result that I often 'out' myself and have to beat a hasty retreat to avoid odd stares and awkward questions.
I wish I could find that magic middle ground, but the world just isn't like that really. Holding one's head up and being proud to be whatever you are, requires a strength and depth of character that I just don't have. In jumping over the fence, I find that actually I'd rather have sat on it, and dangled a foot on both sides. And kudos to those strong enough to do just that.

I'm just starting mtf transition, and I'm a massive metalhead, and I love all things guitar related. I'm also into video games and other computer stuff, so I get where you're coming from; it's one of the reasons I delayed my transition for so long. I think the key is to not try and force yourself to appear completely stereotypically female. After all, that's the sort of pressure we aim to escape from when we transition. Just embrace who you are and what makes you happy, and if that makes you seem kind of androgynous to some people, who cares?

Quote from: Jamie97 on July 15, 2016, 05:26:05 PM
I'm just starting mtf transition, and I'm a massive metalhead, and I love all things guitar related. I'm also into video games and other computer stuff, so I get where you're coming from; it's one of the reasons I delayed my transition for so long. I think the key is to not try and force yourself to appear completely stereotypically female. After all, that's the sort of pressure we aim to escape from when we transition. Just embrace who you are and what makes you happy, and if that makes you seem kind of androgynous to some people, who cares?

You are right of course, and it's good advice. I just find that whole "stuff what others think" attitude rather difficult to do.
I should just get over myself I guess...
I wish you well with your transition  :)

I listen to all kinds of metal music, collect dragons, and learned to weld better than most guys in my area. It certainly doesn't make me any less of a woman. It also helps to have those things in common with the hubby.

Well V, I took  struggled for liking my former manly things and hobbies, like military/police science and automechanics and dabbling into home construction, UNTIL (out of survival, and I never push my masculine hobbies or former self on anybody), I'm a very low key, nonbravado, quiet type of person, you'd never tell I was former military....I'll get to that in the minute.
I like feminine things, like shoes, good outfits, manicures, pedicures, cooking, and just being peaceful and fun loving, being one of the girls, but alas, EVIL can and has come crashing down on me, before HRT and post HRT. I've limited resources and I like women(ie.not men/males or else I may have defaulted to having the men do the MANLY stuff for me, with some assistance from me of course, but even then, I don't take too kind in things being done for me, for a variety of reasons, anyway...). When my car started breaking down, I just HAD to fix it myself to go to work and get around, which I've done on my car  such as changed the front/rear struts, fuel injectors, fan belts, timing belt, oil seals, water pump, yadda yadda, SAVING about 5-6K worth in expenses. Since I live in the rougher part of L.A., too, as a homeowner(South central L.A.), folks around here are rough around the edges and can be quite intimidating too. Its nice to know the principles of guerilla warfare, physical security, combat tactical intelligence, operational planning, route planning, situational awareness, physical/psychological avoidance of conflict/violence, last dance protocols, combat mindset, blah blah blah, blah. SAVES me much heart ache in knowing this stuff and NOT to mention home fixes at home, building a wall, building a small shed, mediocre electrical/plumbing/drywall/stucco/cement work.
IT JUST saves me much, much, much, much heartache and stress, knowing these skills. Yes, I love the girly stuff, but if push comes to shove, I can GET DOWN fix and defend myself, if need be, IS HOW I was able to reconcile my masculine hobbies out of sheer SURVIVAL. ITS JUST GOOD SURVIVAL stuff for me to know and how I was able to reconcile it too.

:)

Am a believer that we should participate in whatever makes us happy and whole.  Hobbies might be dominated by one gender, but that is not to say they are owned by it.  Love to ride my motorcycle and work on the 4WD, I just do it with more style now :)  I actually had this discussion with my therapist and she asked me to define a manly activity and then asked me to define the reason it was not suitable for me.  After some thought, it sort of came to a point of...I like it, why not?

I know some very technical cisgender women who enjoy a few predominately male activities.  They never seem to give it a thought and it fulfills something for them.  Cool!  Are we not the same?

@Sonadora, you sound like a very strong and resourceful woman! I keep coming across such strong people on these boards, very inspirational. If that reconciliation method works for you, that's great and more power to you  :)
I can get down and fix cars if I have to. In fact on more than one occasion when I've seen someone who's broken down in their car, I have stopped to help.  And because I used to drive old cars, I used to carry tools, spares, jump leads, tow ropes, batteries, etc... I used to repair the stranded car if I could to get the people moving, or tow them home if I could not. I used to have a trailer and so I'd go and get it and use it to recover vehicles and get them and their owners home. I met some nice people that way. More often than not, if it was a woman who was stranded, they used to ask me how on earth I knew how to do all 'that stuff'. I'd just smile and say I'm an engineer by trade.
Nowadays I don't do that, as my health isn't so good, and I don't own big old 4x4's any more.
It is not common for a woman to do such things though, and my current boyfriend doesn't like me stopping to help strangers these days in case I get assaulted by them.
@Kaitylynn, you are right, but it's not common to see women do these things. And my desire to not attract attention to myself often overrides my participation in such activities.
I guess it's just my issue and there's no easy answer.

Long live steam! That is a great hobby. I can relate to your dilemma (especially after spending the last five days making a part on my vintage south bend lathe). One mental trick that I use whenever a project is affecting my self image is to think about all those factory girls during World War Two. When I go full time I'm planning to steal a lot of their styling cues. It helps to imagine myself that way rather than as some large grunting blacksmith or something. P.S..... The dreamboat that I've had a crush on for years works on steam engines.

Quote from: sweetbriar9 on October 31, 2016, 07:21:22 PM
Long live steam! That is a great hobby. I can relate to your dilemma (especially after spending the last five days making a part on my vintage south bend lathe). One mental trick that I use whenever a project is affecting my self image is to think about all those factory girls during World War Two. When I go full time I'm planning to steal a lot of their styling cues. It helps to imagine myself that way rather than as some large grunting blacksmith or something. P.S..... The dreamboat that I've had a crush on for years works on steam engines.

Your sig is something I feel applies to me too!

Well, I won't be wrenching on cars in my new place.  Not a gender thing, but the HOA frowns on doing that in 'their' garage.  I'm still active in amateur radio, though, and will be doing some radio physics lectures, as well as teaching a licensing class early next year.

I do manage to get on the air in spite of the HOA.  Here's me, on the balcony Monday night, checking into a public safety 'net' based about 20 miles away over two ridges of hills.  (4 watts FM on 70cm, with a 6 element Yagi antenna, not the usual girls night out...)

(https://www.susans.org/forums/gallery/0/47977-141116230436.jpeg)

Hm. I dance around a lot, although I suck at it. I repress the urge to sing x.x
I write code. I hide away in my lair. I play lots of games and watch anime ^_^