Susan's Place Transgender Resources

This thread is meant for those who are transsexual, and are either in transition, transition is the next step, have surgery scheduled or are post-op.

There is much controversy on what makes us TS.  It's sort of the chicken and the egg routine.  Do we have a psychological condition, or is it a physical condition.  There are those psychiatrists/psychologists who would like to see transsexualism de-listed from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV).  I strongly agree with this as I don't consider myself to be "Disordered", I feel quite normal.

The crux of the matter basically comes down to... I have male chromosomes, but a female brain, some would say mind.

So to the other transsexuals - What's your feelings on this?

Steph

Steph,

I never considered myself have a mental condition, or to that matter a physical condition. I dont consider myself to be "cured" because I never considered myself to be "ill" in the first place.

I totally agree that Transsexualism should be de-classified as a mental illness and be removed from the DSM-IV.

As to what it is? .... well in IMHO its just a classification used medically to distinguish a group of people who have a  dissconnect between their mental and physical gender and Society in general understands things by giving them labels and putting them into classifications.

As to what causes it?....Physical, environmental, developmental factors all surely play apart, but the acceptance that it exists is key and availabilty of better treatment and a harmonized set of standards and care the answer.

Rebecca

Quote from: ell on October 23, 2007, 09:21:48 AM
yeah, you feel normal, now that you've had your genitals surgically removed and you've given yourself permission, full time to act like a girl.

But TSs don't "act like girls." They *are* girls. Hence it feeling normal. IMHO and all that ;)

Quotethere's just no way society is ever going to accept that as normal, in our lifetimes. far, far into the future: certainly. but not now.

Well heck, society will never agree 100% on what's "normal." Every group thinks the other groups are weird, and I don't just mean GLBT stuff. Religions, careers, philosophies... everyone is weird to SOMEONE. So to be considered weird is... well... NORMAL, lol.

Is it a "disorder" or "mental illness" though? No, I don't believe so. I have my quirks for sure, but I'm no more nuts that the rest of the population. Well OK, maybe a LITTLE, but I digress. Like I always say, 1/2 the population feels appropriate living as females, and no one thinks THEY'RE nuts. Yea OK, so they lucked out and were born with chomosomes which made it easy to do. That still doesn't mean I'm nuts just because my route to femaleness is a bit less travelled.

The catch is we need a medical diagnosis to get medical treatments. And only psychs can do that, since no one can diagnose TSism via physical symptoms and tests. Soooo... ya gotta call it SOMETHING. Not a disorder, but maybe a condition?

~Kate~

Quote from: Kate on October 23, 2007, 10:18:54 AM

But TSs don't "act like girls." They *are* girls. Hence it feeling normal. IMHO and all that ;)

Got it in one Kate... Many don't understand this.

and ell, you don't have to worry about offending me, nothing of what you wrote was the least offensive.

Steph

It seems a false distinction, between psychological and physical, mind and brain. I came across a line of commentary in a Zen dialogue, "when you drink water, it always hits your throat." Everything is manifested in our biology. It seems a matter of perspective. That having been said, there are some invested in seeing it one way or another. I guess that's their business. Every perspective has it's uses.
Re getting de-listed from the DSM.. don't hold your breath.. doubt it will happen this time around. Most psychiatrists still seem to regard GID as pretty crazy.
My 2C
Tara

I've had various intersexed tests done last year and it's clear I am IS. This would mean it's not a psychological condition but a physical one. I also think if you dig deep enough many other people may have physical intersexed traits which can be monitered or tested.

Quote from: Berliegh on October 23, 2007, 12:42:20 PM
I've had various intersexed tests done last year and it's clear I am IS. This would mean it's not a psychological condition but a physical one.

Technically, if I remember my reading, if you're intersexed, then you're actually NOT transsexual. I believe the two terms are mutually exclusive.

Otherwise, no physical "causes" of transsexuality have ever been found. There have been hints and clues and teases, but nothing official. It remains a mystery, which is kinda cool with me ;)

~Kate~

I don't think there is such a thing as "Normal". We are all different and think differently. So if you want to say something like that maybe average would be a better term.

In some ways I would like to see it out of the DSM book, but only if you were able to get your meds without it being in there. True, I don't feel ill nor do I feel crazy (well?) but, like my therapist told me on my last visit with her, "Your just a normal woman". Maybe she should have said average woman. I have always, even in my most male position, have felt female. I don't think there was a minute in my life that I didn't think that I wasn't a female. I was always trying to be a male. It didn't work. I went crazy.

 I really think it has to do with our brains and I would think that it is physical. I really believe that a transexual and an intersexed person are the same. No, we didn't have the outside features of the opposite gender, but in the brain we did. Being intersexed was something that was on the outside of your body, something that doctors can see. I really think that if they had a way of probing the brain, they would be able to see that we have female genitalia and in the case of FtoM they had male genitalia in their brains. Our brain runs the show, we are what the brain says we are. For most of us, we have known who we are since we were very little before we even knew a difference. We probably knew when we were in the womb, but who remembers back that far. I believe it is innate and not learning. This has had to have happened while in the womb or during conception. I will never know and I don't care to know. I know that when I came out of the operating room and woke up, I felt whole and right for the first time in all of my life. I felt a great relief. No, the hormones never did that for me, only to make me feel that I'm on the right track, even when I got rid of my testosterone via orchi. did I feel complete. It was making a vagina and feeling right with the world did I feel whole.

So I would have to say it is all physical with in the brain.
Sheila

What?  We just have different physical needs than your standard, fresh-off-the-assembly-line human.  We're a little more high maintenance.  We need something extra in order to survive.  I really don't see what the big issue is, here.  We're not normal, physically, and that results in psychological issues that can be remedied by correcting the physical ailment.  Am I ringing any bells here?  How is it any different from some other physical disfigurement?  Depending on how socially debilitating it is (ours is arguably one of the worst in that regard), you suffer pretty severe mental repurcussions until you get things ironed out.

But hey, at least we don't have to drink blood (although that would be pretty sexy.)

~ BB

Quote from: Steph on October 23, 2007, 06:39:52 AM
The crux of the matter basically comes down to... I have male chromosomes, but a female brain, some would say mind.

There are any number of chromosomes and environmental factors that determine how your 23rd pair gets expressed, whether you are XX or XY.  All that really matters, when push comes to shove, is prenatal hormones.  So forget worrying about male chromosomes.

There is another distinction here.  "Psychological" and "instinctual" are two different things.  The fact that an infant at 18 months responds to male and female faces differently is instinctual.  So is the fact that at 2 yrs they know whether they are male or female.  How you subjectively experience that instinct is psychological.

Final point.  Read my signature line below:

Gee I hate threads like this.

How can it not be psychological? I have depression (mental illness) when at the same type I was physically in great shape. I tries to get rid of the female inside of me so I could get on with my life - but we all know that never works. Here I am a (once) healthy male thinking about transistion cause my dam brain does not accept I am male despite all my physical attributes.

I know futher along the line I may consider this a bleasing - but for now it is all in my mind and such a waste of energy.

Alice

Posted on: October 24, 2007, 08:14:32 AM

---

I was just thinking on my way to work since writing the previous post how much I hate my situation. Derpession stole the best life I could of hoped for - being fit and healthly and out riding with my friends. There was always another challenge to do.

Now the best I can hope for is being accepted as a bald women with male genitia.


Why could I not choose where I wanted to go. Where is the choice in this if it is not psychological? Where is our self determination here to choose what is important in our lives and going forward knowing we have looked at out paths and decided what is our best interested.

I used to be someone. Now I am psychological dammaged because I wanted a choice and paid a high price for not relising that there is no choice.

I may be pushed into transistion - but in know way was I going to do this by choice. I had the life I wanted and this TSism stuffed it up. It is all Psychological preasure and nothing else.

>:(  :'(

[/end rant]

Alice

Well, according to what I have read recently, transsexualism seems to be a neurological/congenital and not a psychiatric condition.  IMO transsexualism is not a mental illness in itself, but it can cause mental illness (i.e, depression, bipolar disorder, OCD, etc).  I think it is also important to note that not a single transsexual person has ever been "cured" (if you will) or even successfully treated by mental health professionals in the last century or so since the science of psychiatry has been recognized my the medical profession.  Funny, isn't it?

So, no it is not a psychiatric condition as I myself thought not too long ago (Amy T will tell you  ;D); I am just a female who happened to have been born with a set of chromosomes and genitals which didn't match my brain.  :P

Here's the link from The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism


http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/5/2034

Quote from: Kate on October 23, 2007, 10:18:54 AM

But TSs don't "act like girls." They *are* girls. Hence it feeling normal. IMHO and all that ;)

You are so right, Kate :)  Alas:

Quote from: Tink on March 17, 2007, 11:03:56 AM
I was always punished for "acting" like a girl.  I never felt like I "acted" though; that was simply how I was, but I guess it wasn't appropriate for a "boy" to act that way.  I remember my mom "teaching" me how to sit, walk, stand, talk, carry my books. It always seemed that I did nothing right, and I felt so alone......

tink :icon_chick:

:)

tink :icon_chick:

Thanks for the link to the reasearch Tink. It does make sense and I was very angry this morning. I sent the link onto my parents in an effort to help them understand.

Alice

Tink,
Isn't that what I said? Maybe I didn't use the right words? Well, anyway, in my opinion it isn't mental but physical, but only physical in the brain. Like a tumour but not a bad tumor. Who knows why this happens it just does. Isn't intersexed people have physical differences and they also have the brain thing going on.
Sheila

Quote from: Sheila on October 23, 2007, 09:00:25 PM
Tink,
Isn't that what I said? Maybe I didn't use the right words? Well, anyway, in my opinion it isn't mental but physical, but only physical in the brain. Like a tumour but not a bad tumor. Who knows why this happens it just does. Isn't intersexed people have physical differences and they also have the brain thing going on.
Sheila

Yes Sheila, it would seem that this is becoming a very common belief among us now.  IMO this entire idea doesn't sound so odd really.  If I recall correctly, there are several threads on this site where members provided excellent links to these studies.  I just don't seem to find things when I want to, but they are here, somewhere...

tink :icon_chick:

Quote from: Kate on October 23, 2007, 12:57:52 PM

Quote from: Berliegh on October 23, 2007, 12:42:20 PM
I've had various intersexed tests done last year and it's clear I am IS. This would mean it's not a psychological condition but a physical one.

Technically, if I remember my reading, if you're intersexed, then you're actually NOT transsexual. I believe the two terms are mutually exclusive.

Otherwise, no physical "causes" of transsexuality have ever been found. There have been hints and clues and teases, but nothing official. It remains a mystery, which is kinda cool with me ;)

~Kate~

OK, I'm not transsexual.......so what am I?

Quote from: Berliegh on October 24, 2007, 05:37:30 AM

Quote from: Kate on October 23, 2007, 12:57:52 PM

Quote from: Berliegh on October 23, 2007, 12:42:20 PM
I've had various intersexed tests done last year and it's clear I am IS. This would mean it's not a psychological condition but a physical one.

Technically, if I remember my reading, if you're intersexed, then you're actually NOT transsexual. I believe the two terms are mutually exclusive.

Otherwise, no physical "causes" of transsexuality have ever been found. There have been hints and clues and teases, but nothing official. It remains a mystery, which is kinda cool with me ;)

~Kate~

OK, I'm not transsexual.......so what am I?

Kinda left yourself open there Berliegh :)

However definition time...  From our Wiki:

Intersexed

An intersexual or intersex person (or animal of any unisexual species) is one who is born with genitalia and/or secondary sexual characteristics determined as neither exclusively male nor female, or which combine features of the male and female sexes. (The terms hermaphrodite and pseudo-hermaphrodite, which have been used in the past, are now considered pejorative and inaccurate and are no longer used to refer to an intersexual person.) Sometimes the phrase "ambiguous genitalia" is used.

The remainder of the article can be found here:

https://www.susans.org/wiki/Intersexed

Don't cha love definitions :)

Steph

Quote from: Steph on October 24, 2007, 05:56:49 AM

Quote from: Berliegh on October 24, 2007, 05:37:30 AM

Quote from: Kate on October 23, 2007, 12:57:52 PM

Quote from: Berliegh on October 23, 2007, 12:42:20 PM
I've had various intersexed tests done last year and it's clear I am IS. This would mean it's not a psychological condition but a physical one.

Technically, if I remember my reading, if you're intersexed, then you're actually NOT transsexual. I believe the two terms are mutually exclusive.

Otherwise, no physical "causes" of transsexuality have ever been found. There have been hints and clues and teases, but nothing official. It remains a mystery, which is kinda cool with me ;)

~Kate~

OK, I'm not transsexual.......so what am I?

Kinda left yourself open there Berliegh :)

However definition time...  From our Wiki:

Intersexed

An intersexual or intersex person (or animal of any unisexual species) is one who is born with genitalia and/or secondary sexual characteristics determined as neither exclusively male nor female, or which combine features of the male and female sexes. (The terms hermaphrodite and pseudo-hermaphrodite, which have been used in the past, are now considered pejorative and inaccurate and are no longer used to refer to an intersexual person.) Sometimes the phrase "ambiguous genitalia" is used.

The remainder of the article can be found here:

https://www.susans.org/wiki/Intersexed

Don't cha love definitions :)

Steph

That's a very narrow definition........IS conditions do not always reflect genitalia. I have the male genitalia but have female chromosones and bone density structure. There are many IS conditions other than hermaphrodites...

Quote from: BerleighThat's a very narrow definition........IS conditions do not always reflect genitalia. I have the male genitalia but have female chromosones and bone density structure. There are many IS conditions other than hermaphrodites...

The article doesn't state that IS are hermaphrodites in fact it states that the term is no longer used.  Additionally the article does say:

Quote...one who is born with genitalia and/or secondary sexual characteristics determined as neither exclusively male nor female, or which combine features of the male and female sexes.

The complete article can be found here and it is quite extensive:

https://www.susans.org/wiki/Intersexed

Steph

I find it amazing while I'm on HRT, (estrogen, progesterone, spiro etc) I feel totally normal. Before HRT, I had a daily thing of feeling something was wrong and I spent my time running in circles trying many many things to fix it. There was a 24x7 soundtrack playing in my head bugging me to do something. It got so bad I wanted to blow my head off just to get rid of that nagging. That physcial need for estrogen introduction into my system and the reducing of testosterone drove my mentality into a frenzy to take action. Once I got those needs of increased estrogen and the drop  testosterone, those mental conditions went away.

I say this problem for me is a physical one that causes several mental ones. Once I took care of that physical need by getting on the right "fuel", the mental issues went away. On the flip side, getting on the right fuel does cause other mental problems for me and those would be my need to change and look more congruent as a female has tripled. Now I am anxious for those changes to happen faster and I'm sad and depressed things are not doing so. I have in a sense, created more mental issues. Other mental issues are the fear of coming out, fear of people noticing the changes, and so on and so forth. The orginal mental problem is now gone because physically my body feels right bathing in the new chemicals, but I am mentally depressed because the changes are so slow and fearful of the future.

I cannot speak for everybody but I would have to say that being TS is a physical thing that causes a LOT of mental problems, for me that is. 

Quote from: ell on October 23, 2007, 08:50:30 PM
what is up with Lisbeth???

it seems that ever since she changed her avatar to this new one with the black cat, she's also changed into some kind of genius or something. what does it mean? *kowtows to Lisbeth and accidentally knocks head on floor*

-ell

*Lisbeth rolls eyes and goes back to petting familiar in her lap.*

The doctors started studying people who looked like one sex but insisted they were another.  They looked at these people's feet up to their heads and with their best instruments, running at full capacity, could not find anything different about their patient's bodies.  HA!  They said, we can't find anything, OBVIOUSLY it is psychological.

So they threw the people into insane asylums and used drugs, electricity and torture to get them to stop insisting what was very obviously not true.

All because they assumed that their methods and machines were perfect and if they could not find the problem then it was all in those poor afflicted people's heads.

And that's how we got stuffed into the psychological box.  Arrogance and the fact that they couldn't (still can't) decide where to place us.  >:(

Emelye

Quote from: Steph on October 24, 2007, 06:19:09 AM

Quote from: BerleighThat's a very narrow definition........IS conditions do not always reflect genitalia. I have the male genitalia but have female chromosones and bone density structure. There are many IS conditions other than hermaphrodites...

The article doesn't state that IS are hermaphrodites in fact it states that the term is no longer used.  Additionally the article does say:

Quote...one who is born with genitalia and/or secondary sexual characteristics determined as neither exclusively male nor female, or which combine features of the male and female sexes.

The complete article can be found here and it is quite extensive:

https://www.susans.org/wiki/Intersexed

Steph

Not to nitpick too much,  but that definition doesn't completely mesh with the one used in the 'community definitions' in the following post.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,14714.0.html

QuoteIntersexual: a person born with the full or partial sex organs of both sexes; with underdeveloped or ambiguous sex organs; a sex chromosome karyotype other than XX or XY; or sex hormone receptor problems which prevent normal absorption of Estrogen or Androgens. Intersexual persons may seek to make their body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatments.

Maybe the wiki needs updating?  :)

Quote from: Jaycie on October 24, 2007, 08:47:57 PM

Quote from: Steph on October 24, 2007, 06:19:09 AM

Quote from: BerleighThat's a very narrow definition........IS conditions do not always reflect genitalia. I have the male genitalia but have female chromosones and bone density structure. There are many IS conditions other than hermaphrodites...

The article doesn't state that IS are hermaphrodites in fact it states that the term is no longer used.  Additionally the article does say:

Quote...one who is born with genitalia and/or secondary sexual characteristics determined as neither exclusively male nor female, or which combine features of the male and female sexes.

The complete article can be found here and it is quite extensive:

https://www.susans.org/wiki/Intersexed

Steph

Not to nitpick too much,  but that definition doesn't completely mesh with the one used in the 'community definitions' in the following post.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,14714.0.html

QuoteIntersexual: a person born with the full or partial sex organs of both sexes; with underdeveloped or ambiguous sex organs; a sex chromosome karyotype other than XX or XY; or sex hormone receptor problems which prevent normal absorption of Estrogen or Androgens. Intersexual persons may seek to make their body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatments.

Maybe the wiki needs updating?  :)

Hmmmm...  could be.

I reviewed the article and the references it contains and it would seem pretty accurate.  However, there is always new information and research going on and if you have additional references that would add to the article I will gladly include them for you.  Remember they must be credible, based on fact.

Steph

Ive only read the initial question here and appoligise if i am behind on this thred. We all have a di3erent oppinion im sure. There isA problem in being TG, the body of one gender

Hmn.  "Psychological" seems to imply the normal/not-normal determination.

Do you mean the "Normal Distribution" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution) normal, or the "Normal Behaviour" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normality_%28behavior%29) normal?

I specially like this quote from the second article, above:

QuoteQuote: It is dangerous to be right on a subject on which the established authorities are wrong. - Voltaire. (It is dangerous not to be "normal" even if you are right).

because it nicely sums up what I see to be the problem with us TGs.

'Psychological' also suggests the idea that we can be somehow 'fixed' if we're just made to realize how wrong our choice to behave like something we're not is, the way a shrink can use talk therapy to help his or her patients make their behaviour more -- wait for it -- 'normal'. (sorry for the circular reasoning  :embarrassed: )

My take on this topic:

I believe our being is natural, in the sense that it is a possible but rare outcome of  human gene propagation (sexual reproduction), the conditions experienced by the mother during pregnancy (extreme stress to the mother can cause low testosterone levels for the fetus,) and, more recently, the possibility of well-meaning chemical meddling in the pregnancy (i.e., DES.)  Human physiology carries with it the rare but possible outcome of individuals who have mismatches between brain gender and body sex.   And it's completely natural.  There's nothing wrong with it.

The problem is when we are encountered by other individuals who fall within the first standard deviation of behaviour (average), who also have a revultion of anything that falls outside of that first standard deviation.  It's a common funtion though, in that it helps us chose health fruit, healthy vegetables and healthy mates, and guides us to avoid that which may harm us.

We TGs are okay.  We are merely a rarity, cursed with something that causes a significant number 'normal' people to react badly to us and either try to 'correct' our behaviour to bring it within the first standard deviation (ala Tink being 'taught' how to be a 'boy' (something I also went through,)) or to try to 'prune' us from the population via ostracism/shunning/beatings/murder.

'Normal' people certainly do not have to endure such pressure. and so are likely to exhibit far fewer psychological abnormalities (behaviour that falls within the second standard deviation or greater.)

Maybe we're not 'normal'.

But we're certainly natural.

Karen

I like that explanation but can u back up the first part with evidence. Its a strange place we live in. I was also torght to b a boy, i hated it. You almost seem to blame my parents pregnacy for my mix match of brain n body. Emmm. May be and may b not.

Quote from: ell on October 24, 2007, 10:01:35 PM

Quote from: Lisbeth on October 24, 2007, 09:39:58 AM

Quote from: ell on October 23, 2007, 08:50:30 PM
what is up with Lisbeth???

it seems that ever since she changed her avatar to this new one with the black cat, she's also changed into some kind of genius or something. what does it mean? *kowtows to Lisbeth and accidentally knocks head on floor*

-ell

*Lisbeth rolls eyes and goes back to petting familiar in her lap.*

what? did i say something wrong?

Did I say you said something wrong?  You can get up off the floor now.

Congenital. Something that happened in the womb. It's a condition not a disorder. The only trouble is that I was disorderly part of my life as a result of not recognizing that I have this condition. It was something that stood between me and being "normal" (by society's definition). ::)

Quote from: Changing Sex: Transsexualism, Technology, and the Idea of Gender by Bernice L. Hausman and Bernice L.
Transsexualism (also known as transsexuality) is a complex condition that is defined differently by different people. Many terms have been proposed through the years to describe transsexual people and the processes they go through. As with any terms used by a group, or to refer to a particular group, some of these terms are controversial, or have become controversial, not only to society at large, but even among the transsexual community.

The definition of transsexuality is somewhat debated. One common definition is that a transsexual is a person who believes that his or her body does not reflect his or her true inner gender. Another common definition is that a transsexual is a person who has had or plans to have medical or surgical treatments that alter his or her body to better reflect what the individual believes is his or her true gender. The first definition allows greater freedom for individuals to self-identify as a transsexual. The latter defines the term based on actual or planned operative status and makes it more an external label than a term of self-definition.

When surgery is undertaken it is commonly referred to as sex reassignment surgery by health care providers and community members. An older term, sex change surgery may be seen as disrespectful.

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders accepts the expression of desire to be of the opposite sex, or assertion that one is of the sex opposite from the one with which they were assigned at birth, as sufficient for being transsexual.[4] The ICD-10 states in a similar way that transsexualism is defined by, the desire to live and be accepted as a member of the opposite sex, usually accompanied by the wish to make his, or her body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatment. In contrast, some transgender people often do not identify as being of, or desiring to be the opposite sex, but as being of or wanting to be another gender.

Transsexualism has been variously described as a trait, disease, behavior, desire, mental illness, perversion, paraphilia, political identity, lifestyle and sin. The terms perversion and sin are often used in a derogatory manner (especially by Western religions). People may consider the use of such labels offensive whether they are or are not transsexual, or involved with Western religions, themselves.

Transsexualism is often included within the broader term transgender, which is generally considered an umbrella term for people who do not conform to typical accepted gender roles, for example cross-dressers, drag queens, and people who identify as genderqueer. However, some transsexuals object to this inclusion. Historically the reason that transsexuals rejected associations with the transgender or broader LGBT community is largely that the medical community in the 1950s through the late 1980s encouraged (and in many ways required) this rejection of ones queer kin in order to be a (true transsexual) who would thus be allowed to access medical and surgical care. The animosity that is present today is no longer fed by this same kind of pressure from the medical community (indeed, today many gender therapists actively encourage their clients to explore support within the broader community. However the current animosity is reflective of this historical division.

Regardless of definition, transsexualism should not be confused with cross dressing or with the behaviour of drag queens and drag kings, which can be described as transgender but not transsexual. Also, transvestic fetishism usually has little, if anything, to do with transsexualism. As a general rule, transsexual people tend to dress and behave in a manner consistent with the gender they identify with, crossdressers tend to dress (and sometimes behave) in a manner consistent with stereotypical ideals of the opposite gender as opposed to the real-life behavior of that gender, and drag queens or drag kings tend to dress and behave in a flamboyant manner which parodies rather than emulates the opposite gender.

Yay - I am not TS  ;).

Quote
Regardless of definition, transsexualism should not be confused with cross dressing or with the behaviour of drag queens and drag kings, which can be described as transgender but not transsexual. Also, transvestic fetishism usually has little, if anything, to do with transsexualism.

As a general rule, transsexual people tend to dress and behave in a manner consistent with the gender they identify with, crossdressers tend to dress (and sometimes behave) in a manner consistent with stereotypical ideals of the opposite gender as opposed to the real-life behavior of that gender

You look at my early posts here (I will quote from them when I get home). I started out with a transvestic fetish. I can tell you know these are not mutualy excussive. Someone with Transvestic Fetish (or a simple CD) can very easier turn into a TS person when they relise they are more relaxed as a female.

So many people here started out knowing they where female. Being a very logical person I knew I was male. It was why I was so embarrised at my cross dressing - I was a guy and felt like a freck.

Now after many years of exploring (and many years of pain) I know it is not black and white - My brain is female and if that causes me to transistion so be it. I will never forget my past and hate my male self. It is just with my brain and the way it works - being female means I will be more relaxed with myself and be able to relate to people a whole lot better.

I now know a lot of CDs that are trying hormone. Alice Novic (author of "Alice in Genderland") is one of a host of poeple I know who initaly called themselves Cross dresses but have relised that they are infact closer to being female then male.

Alice

Alice

Quote from: ell on October 25, 2007, 09:00:42 PM

Quote from: Lisbeth on October 25, 2007, 09:58:27 AM

Quote from: ell on October 24, 2007, 10:01:35 PM
what? did i say something wrong?

Did I say you said something wrong?  You can get up off the floor now.

well, you responded to a compliment with what seemed to be a scoff or criticism. i never give compliments unless they're well-deserved. and even then, not often. i was being sincere. take it however you wish.
scoff, scoff, scoff away.

I'm sorry I didn't recognize it as a compliment.

Genetic, a type of intersex condition that happens in the uterus while the fetus is developing within the mother.  The brain of one sex and the gonads of the opposite sex.
Thank you kindly Steph for making this thread exclusively for trans peeps.  We've got more than enough confusion; thus peeps that aren't trans shouldnt be able to participate because they dont understand us and only cause more complications.

Quote from: Alice on October 26, 2007, 12:28:12 AM
I now know a lot of CDs that are trying hormone. Alice Novic (author of "Alice in Genderland") is one of a host of poeple I know who initaly called themselves Cross dresses but have relised that they are infact closer to being female then male.

Perhaps, but I also think CDrs occasionally mistake their compulsion to crossdress for a need to live as, or identify as, a female. If someone's crossdressing compulsion becomes so intense that it begins to interfere with everyday life, they may decide that transtitioning will allow them the freedom to crossdress permanently - thus alleviating their frustration and angst.

~Kate~

Quote from: Kate on October 28, 2007, 03:21:05 PM

Quote from: Alice on October 26, 2007, 12:28:12 AM
I now know a lot of CDs that are trying hormone. Alice Novic (author of "Alice in Genderland") is one of a host of poeple I know who initaly called themselves Cross dresses but have relised that they are infact closer to being female then male.

Perhaps, but I also think CDrs occasionally mistake their compulsion to crossdress for a need to live as, or identify as, a female. If someone's crossdressing compulsion becomes so intense that it begins to interfere with everyday life, they may decide that transtitioning will allow them the freedom to crossdress permanently - thus alleviating their frustration and angst.

~Kate~

It more then interdered with my life - it stuffed it up totaly.  :'(.

I am just working on the ashes of my old life and hoping to build a new life. In any case it should never of interfered with what I enjoyed.

Alice

>:D today

Quote from: Blair on October 23, 2007, 01:27:52 PM
What?  We just have different physical needs than your standard, fresh-off-the-assembly-line human.  We're a little more high maintenance.  We need something extra in order to survive.  I really don't see what the big issue is, here.  We're not normal, physically, and that results in psychological issues that can be remedied by correcting the physical ailment.  Am I ringing any bells here?  How is it any different from some other physical disfigurement?  Depending on how socially debilitating it is (ours is arguably one of the worst in that regard), you suffer pretty severe mental repurcussions until you get things ironed out.

But hey, at least we don't have to drink blood (although that would be pretty sexy.)

~ BB

Just please don't drink mine.......I really need it and all that. Besides my gf might be a bit upset.

Quote from: Butterfly on October 28, 2007, 02:33:25 AM
Genetic, a type of intersex condition that happens in the uterus while the fetus is developing within the mother.  The brain of one sex and the gonads of the opposite sex.
Thank you kindly Steph for making this thread exclusively for trans peeps.  We've got more than enough confusion; thus peeps that aren't trans shouldnt be able to participate because they dont understand us and only cause more complications.

here here.  ditto.