General Discussions => Spirituality => Topic started by: Cin on July 09, 2016, 09:00:36 PM Return to Full Version
Title: God mistakes
Post by: Cin on July 09, 2016, 09:00:36 PM
Post by: Cin on July 09, 2016, 09:00:36 PM
I personally think God doesn't make mistakes, but problems happening in the world is because of free will. A consequence of free will Is mistakes. What do you think? Maybe God isn't responsible for everything happening now and it's consequences of human actions..
Title: Re: God mistakes
Post by: Dena on July 09, 2016, 09:13:21 PM
Post by: Dena on July 09, 2016, 09:13:21 PM
Pretty simple. God gave us free will and in order for us to have free will, God has to have a hands off approach and allow us to make our own mistakes. It's more a case of God not doing everything for us so imperfection is possible.
Title: God mistakes
Post by: Deborah on July 10, 2016, 10:37:14 AM
Post by: Deborah on July 10, 2016, 10:37:14 AM
The whole "God doesn't make mistakes" meme is a doctrine of Christianity that people have made up in their need to comprehensively define everything. Even the free will argument is a developed doctrine and there are good arguments against it.
The problem with these and other doctrines of God that have developed over the centuries is that they end up defaming God by making him responsible for evil, or worse, turning people away because of the logical contradictions involved in many of them.
God is a mystery. No man has seen him. We do not know all the answers. It is better not to give any thought to these things and let others, both within and without the Church, rage back and forth about who has the superior understanding.
It is enough to say, "May God have mercy on us, and bless us: may he cause the light of his countenance to shine upon us, and may he have mercy on us." Psalm 66:1
Sapere Aude
The problem with these and other doctrines of God that have developed over the centuries is that they end up defaming God by making him responsible for evil, or worse, turning people away because of the logical contradictions involved in many of them.
God is a mystery. No man has seen him. We do not know all the answers. It is better not to give any thought to these things and let others, both within and without the Church, rage back and forth about who has the superior understanding.
It is enough to say, "May God have mercy on us, and bless us: may he cause the light of his countenance to shine upon us, and may he have mercy on us." Psalm 66:1
Sapere Aude
Title: Re: God mistakes
Post by: Cin on July 10, 2016, 03:30:53 PM
Post by: Cin on July 10, 2016, 03:30:53 PM
I agree that no one really understands God, but it's disappointing that so many don't believe in God because of what's happening in the world.
Title: Re: God mistakes
Post by: Brandon on July 18, 2016, 03:26:53 PM
Post by: Brandon on July 18, 2016, 03:26:53 PM
I agree, God doesn't make mistakes if you read the Bible all that is happening in the world is in the Bible and if he came in and stopped he would be made a liar and he is not a man that he should lie, not only that but we have turned our backs on him, this is simply him showing us that we do need him.
Title: Re: God mistakes
Post by: Michelle_P on July 18, 2016, 07:44:45 PM
Post by: Michelle_P on July 18, 2016, 07:44:45 PM
God doesn't make mistakes, but sometimes gives us special gifts to help us reach our full potential. We might see those gifts as tests, or challenges, or even a terrible and unfortunate thing, but our task is to accept these things, work with them, and return them to God at the end of our lives as best improved as we can.
That's where free will comes in.
I was born into a family that was well off, with intelligent parents, and had the genetics and home that would make life pretty easy. I think God saw that and and determined that a special gift was appropriate to help me grow to my potential. He caused my mothers doctor to prescribe a medication while I was growing in her that made my brain ready to receive a female soul. Given this gift, I could bury it, and have nothing in addition to return to God at the end of my life, or I could invest it, improve it, work with it to return it to God multiplied manifold. There are those in society who would have me bury it, contrary to what Jesus teaches us in the Parable of the Talents, but these are like the hypocrites cast out of the Temple, and I ignore them.
(12 years of Jesuit training... :) )
That's where free will comes in.
I was born into a family that was well off, with intelligent parents, and had the genetics and home that would make life pretty easy. I think God saw that and and determined that a special gift was appropriate to help me grow to my potential. He caused my mothers doctor to prescribe a medication while I was growing in her that made my brain ready to receive a female soul. Given this gift, I could bury it, and have nothing in addition to return to God at the end of my life, or I could invest it, improve it, work with it to return it to God multiplied manifold. There are those in society who would have me bury it, contrary to what Jesus teaches us in the Parable of the Talents, but these are like the hypocrites cast out of the Temple, and I ignore them.
(12 years of Jesuit training... :) )
Title: Re: God mistakes
Post by: MelissaB on October 12, 2016, 09:27:06 AM
Post by: MelissaB on October 12, 2016, 09:27:06 AM
Disclaimer: Everything expressed in this post is my opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
Do we have free will? There is ample religious scripture and dogma to support that notion. Above and beyond all that – if we do not have free will then every act, every action, good, bad or otherwise is already pre-determined. If this is the case it logically eliminates the possibility of morality – there can be no morality if we cannot choose our own actions. Do we not, on a fundamental level, feel a sense of gratification when we do what we know to be right? Like being kind to others? Conversely, do we not feel equally bad when we do what we know to be wrong? Like doing harm to others? Logically, I must conclude we have free will.
Does humankinds acting on free will cause problems in the world? Clearly from our perspective it does. But from God's perspective? If God is omniscient and omnipotent then God must know that these problems will happen if we have free will. Therefore, God must desire us to face these problems. What great story (Novel, Play, Movie, short-story, etc.) has ever been told that lacked conflict? We have been created, and are hardwired, to face challenges and to overcome them. I don't mean to say that there will always be a "happy-ending" but that we are meant to face challenges and seek to rise above.
Does God make mistakes? If the universe does not function as intended, then yes. But unless we can sit down with God and have a friendly chat it's impossible for us to know for sure :)
Do we have free will? There is ample religious scripture and dogma to support that notion. Above and beyond all that – if we do not have free will then every act, every action, good, bad or otherwise is already pre-determined. If this is the case it logically eliminates the possibility of morality – there can be no morality if we cannot choose our own actions. Do we not, on a fundamental level, feel a sense of gratification when we do what we know to be right? Like being kind to others? Conversely, do we not feel equally bad when we do what we know to be wrong? Like doing harm to others? Logically, I must conclude we have free will.
Does humankinds acting on free will cause problems in the world? Clearly from our perspective it does. But from God's perspective? If God is omniscient and omnipotent then God must know that these problems will happen if we have free will. Therefore, God must desire us to face these problems. What great story (Novel, Play, Movie, short-story, etc.) has ever been told that lacked conflict? We have been created, and are hardwired, to face challenges and to overcome them. I don't mean to say that there will always be a "happy-ending" but that we are meant to face challenges and seek to rise above.
Does God make mistakes? If the universe does not function as intended, then yes. But unless we can sit down with God and have a friendly chat it's impossible for us to know for sure :)
Title: Re: God mistakes
Post by: Kylo on March 18, 2017, 01:49:59 PM
Post by: Kylo on March 18, 2017, 01:49:59 PM
Having free will means being able to deliberately choose to make mistakes - or commit acts of evil.
But the fact there is supposed to be divine eternal punishment for evil means there is no valid 'choice'. Or that man's free will is a deception played upon him.
Some religions even state that man has a choice, but god creates man knowing all of his future - so god would know which ones were going to hell from the moment they are conceived because it's all written out in some magical book already. The man thinks he has a choice but it's all been decided before and beyond him, so he has none.
But the fact there is supposed to be divine eternal punishment for evil means there is no valid 'choice'. Or that man's free will is a deception played upon him.
Some religions even state that man has a choice, but god creates man knowing all of his future - so god would know which ones were going to hell from the moment they are conceived because it's all written out in some magical book already. The man thinks he has a choice but it's all been decided before and beyond him, so he has none.
Title: Re: God mistakes
Post by: Deborah on March 18, 2017, 03:38:08 PM
Post by: Deborah on March 18, 2017, 03:38:08 PM
I read a book on metaphysics last year that made a pretty solid argument against free will without the need to resort to God or religion at all. It was pretty interesting.
Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote
Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote
Title: Re: God mistakes
Post by: Jennifer RachaelAnn on April 10, 2017, 10:24:57 PM
Post by: Jennifer RachaelAnn on April 10, 2017, 10:24:57 PM
Quote from: Deborah on July 10, 2016, 10:37:14 AM
The problem with these and other doctrines of God that have developed over the centuries is that they end up defaming God by making him responsible for evil, or worse, turning people away because of the logical contradictions involved in many of them.
"May God have mercy on us, and bless us: may he cause the light of his countenance to shine upon us, and may he have mercy on us." Psalm 66:1
Sapere Aude
I get what you're saying but coming from a Roman Catholic background I have a quote related to this that may be a counter to the quote you posted.
Isaiah 45:7
I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things.
I'm not trying to be rude or condescending, but I fail to see how you can't blame God for the evil in the world when the bible itself says this.
Title: Re: God mistakes
Post by: bubbles21 on April 11, 2017, 12:18:30 AM
Post by: bubbles21 on April 11, 2017, 12:18:30 AM
OP - I agree with you, God doesn't make mistakes and I do believe the things happening atm are all the fault of evil human actions/free will. Part of being a human is making mistakes and that's where forgiveness comes in.
regards,
B
regards,
B
Title: Re: God mistakes
Post by: AnneK on April 11, 2017, 07:43:24 AM
Post by: AnneK on April 11, 2017, 07:43:24 AM
Of course, this assumes one accepts the nonsense that there is a God. It's hard for something that doesn't exist to make mistakes. The bible and all other religious texts are solely the creation of humans trying to force their own agenda.