Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hey, sorry to bug anyone, this just confuses me and I tend to be very logical about facts rather than emotions when it comes to things.

Thing is, I always tend to use 'transgender' rather than 'transsexual' if even referring to someone as trans at all. Although trannsexual is more of a specific term loosely defining someone who is post-op, it isnt literally correct.

Those objecting to the idea of transgender people will often bring up the fact that transmen and women are not men and woman but 'masculinized women' and 'feminized males'. This is backed by the clear biological and karyotypical fact that all men and women cannot change their genetic makeup, they are all XX or XY, and this cannot be undone. SRS is merely a close imitation of the physical genitalia of the proper sex as well, rather than making correct genitals, they see it as butchering or creating facades.

While yes, technically on a biological basis they were what they were born, I rather think they focus far too much on the physical traits rather than the overall traits of gender, which encompass more than genes  and genital, and the fact that natural-born sex is unchangeable does not make transgenders a fraud.

I hope my understanding of this doesnt make me a naysayer in the community, but I dont quite get 'transsexualism' in any literal use and context. Sex/Gender will always be two different things, and I find it rather delusional to discard ones own sex entirely just for peace of mind. (Though ignoring it and treating it just as a part of ones own life, not identifying as 'trans', etc. Is another thing entirely)

It's just an older style word that developed before there was much understanding about the gendered nature of what being trans entailed. Some people still use it to describe themselves whether they are pre or post op, and that is their right and prerogative. It's all semantics and one way or another means the same thing so I wouldn't get too bothered by it.

The word trans has really confused the issue. I am a former transsexual because a transsexual is one who wishes to change their gender. I underwent surgery and now live as a woman and I no longer desire to change my gender. The word transgender would also apply as transsexualism is one of many possible conditions covered under the term transgender. It is a bit old fashion but  prefer the term transsexual when applied to me because it's more specific but we used the term transgender even when I transitioned.

From my understanding transexual is an old fashioned word for someone who doesn't identify as their assigned gender; invented back in the day when all transgender people had to have all the surgeries to be considered a 'real' transgender person and to fit into society; as the primary goal back then was to tell noone you were transgender and to just live your life (now we have more of a choice to take part in activism and to be more out than we had before). The word is still only used by the medical field to describe an invidual who's had a sex change. But recently the word transgender was invented which works better and is more accurate; because we know now that not all trans people want that surgery. We also now know there are other gender identities than the binary and saying you're trans is a good way of explaining that to people.

I recognize the terminology that I'm expected to use on the site, and I understand that "transgender" is to be used as an umbrella term. Consistent terminology here is necessary to avoid confusion and division. Choosing not to use "transgender" to refer to myself is my prerogative as long as I do not gainsay the site terminology or deny the umbrella.

In my head, I already had a male identity, a male gender. So I am crossing gender only as far as other people's perceptions are concerned. This is one big reason I do not refer to myself as "transgender." At the same time, I recognize that I fit under the "transgender" umbrella as Susan's Place defines it. But I do not use that term to refer to myself, nor do I appreciate it when other people tell me that the term is "better" than other, more specific, terms that I do use to define myself.

I call myself "transsexual" because my brain tells me that I am male, not female, and because I want to change, have changed, or will be changing as many physical sex characteristics as I can--both primary and secondary.

In my understanding, the term transsexual refers to someone who specifically changes the status and appearance of their biological sex.

Transgender could describe crossing boundaries of prescribed roles, expectations, etc. without necessarily altering biological characteristics, and includes people who do not transition. The word gender is a broader descriptor than the term sex (biological sex) and refers more to how we classify ourselves mentally and out in the world. Transsexual is a more specific term, and I use it instead of transgender to describe myself, because I am more concerned with the appearance of the body and the biological sex than other things. I don't think of myself as a female changing to a male, or crossing roles and genders, I think of myself as a male changing female-like body characteristics to male ones. A guy with gynaecomastia doesn't usually think of himself as a transgender person if he gets the problem fixed. Neither do I.

It's interesting reading the different opinions. For me personally I don't like the word transexual to describe myself because it's too focused on the sex part. What my sexual parts are has got nothing to with what my gender is. I also don't like the word sexual in the word because it is not a sexuality. The word transexual goes back to when medical professionals thought trans people were people who felt the opposite gender they were assigned and were straight. Of course as we know that's not always true. I usw the word trans to describe myself partly because that's still a large part of my life as I'm still early in medical transitioning and because it's an umbrella term to express other gender identities.

 I don't like the word transgender because it is defined so broadly that it does not communicate a clear and precise idea of what one is trying to communicate.  So if I'm talking about myself I use transsexual or trans.  The first is precise and the second is my compromise with transgender.  I can understand why others like the word transgender but it's root meaning is to change or move across gender categories.  My gender is not confused and I'm not changing that at all.  The body "sex" part is the problem.

Although, come to think of it maybe transgender does apply to the male avatar I have so carefully built over the years.  So if I do nothing I am transgender although that reverses what most people understand it to mean.

Quote from: WolfNightV4X1 on July 31, 2016, 12:34:16 AM
Those objecting to the idea of transgender people will often bring up the fact that transmen and women are not men and woman but 'masculinized women' and 'feminized males'. This is backed by the clear biological and karyotypical fact that all men and women cannot change their genetic makeup, they are all XX or XY, and this cannot be undone. SRS is merely a close imitation of the physical genitalia of the proper sex as well, rather than making correct genitals, they see it as butchering or creating facades.

While yes, technically on a biological basis they were what they were born, I rather think they focus far too much on the physical traits rather than the overall traits of gender, which encompass more than genes  and genital, and the fact that natural-born sex is unchangeable does not make transgenders a fraud.

Biological determinism reduces a human being to the state of a mechanical device.  I sense we are more than that and possess a divine spirit.  This spirit, however it is joined to the mechanical device of the body, is who I am.

It amazes me that the ones that hold most strongly to this idea of humans as a mechanical device are the ones that so loudly proclaim the spirit. 

To me a transsexual is someone who has a deep need to change BOTH their societal gender role AND their physicality as much as humanly possible  to that for the opposite biological sex to be at peace. But the need to change physicality is NOT PRIMARLY based in the need for filling a social role... In fact I think the need to fill the social role comes more from the physical incongruity rather than teh other way around. The need to be accepted for what one knows oneself to be.

To me transgender speaks to being attracted to all or some aspects of the social role of the other biological sex to some degree. That means it is an umbrella terms that covers a huge spectrum that includes transsexuals as well as some who never transition.

This is just my own opinion and I don't expect (or require) everyone to agree with me.

- Karen

Quote from: Elis on July 31, 2016, 07:27:46 AM
It's interesting reading the different opinions. For me personally I don't like the word transexual to describe myself because it's too focused on the sex part. What my sexual parts are has got nothing to with what my gender is. I also don't like the word sexual in the word because it is not a sexuality. The word transexual goes back to when medical professionals thought trans people were people who felt the opposite gender they were assigned and were straight.

Yes, "transsexual" does seem somewhat archaic, but it does emphasize what the medical community can see, touch, and treat, and as someone who desires medical intervention for my gender dysphoria, I can appreciate that connection.  Gender is a more nebulous concept, and there is no lab test for it.

Quote from: Deborah on July 31, 2016, 07:55:42 AM
I don't like the word transgender because it is defined so broadly that it does not communicate a clear and precise idea of what one is trying to communicate.  So if I'm talking about myself I use transsexual or trans.  The first is precise and the second is my compromise with transgender.  I can understand why others like the word transgender but it's root meaning is to change or move across gender categories.  My gender is not confused and I'm not changing that at all.  The body "sex" part is the problem.

Transgender seems like a "gentler" term, and I will use it in reference to myself mostly because many (cis)people get very distracted with any term that has "sex" in it.  Transsexual somehow comes across as lurid, but I think it is a more accurate term. I am changing my physical sex, insofar as I am able, not my gender.  For that reason, I never liked the designation "gender correction surgery", or "gender reassignment surgery".  My gender is not getting corrected or reassigned.  My biological sex is.

With kindness,

Terri 

While you are free to identify however you wish, the medical community has standard definitions which agree with the standard definitions we use on the site. The link will take you to the full set but I extracted the primary part for this thread.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html


Transgender: an inclusive umbrella term which covers anyone who transcends their birth gender for any reason. This includes but is not limited to Androgynes, Crossdressers, Drag kings, Drag queens, Intersexuals, Transsexuals, and ->-bleeped-<-s.

Androgyne: An androgynous person

Androgynous: Being neither distinguishably masculine nor feminine, as in dress, appearance, or behavior.

Crossdresser: a person wears the clothing of the opposite gender, and has no desire to permanently change their sex. There is generally no sexual motivation for the cross-dressing.

Drag kings: performers, usually gay women or transgendered men - who dress in "drag," clothing associated with the male gender, usually highly exaggerated versions thereof. Drag kings often do drag to perform, singing or lip-syncing and dancing, participating in events such as gay pride parades, cabarets, discotheques, and other celebrations and venues.

Drag queens: performers, usually gay men or transgendered women - who dress in "drag," clothing associated with the female gender, usually highly exaggerated versions thereof. Drag queens often do drag to perform, singing or lip-syncing and dancing, participating in events such as gay pride parades, cabarets, discotheques, and other celebrations and venues.

Intersexual: a person born with the full or partial sex organs of both sexes; with underdeveloped or ambiguous sex organs; a sex chromosome karyotype other than XX or XY; or sex hormone receptor problems which prevent normal absorption of Estrogen or Androgens. Intersexual persons may seek to make their body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatments.

Significant other: for the purpose of this site, someone close to a person who is transgender. This may be a mother, father, son, daughter, sister, brother, family member, husband, wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, or friend.

Transsexual: a person who is mentally one gender, but has the body of the other. They desire to live and be accepted as a member of the mental gender, this is generally accompanied by the strong desire to make their body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatments.

->-bleeped-<-: a person who wears the clothing of the opposite gender, and has no desire to permanently change their sex. There is generally a strong sexual motivation for the cross-dressing.

The media is much to blame for the term "transsexual" falling out of use. Shows such as Jerry Springer have done a lot of harm. While "transsexual" invites enough criticism in the public eye, it is a perfectly acceptable term to use on this site.

Quote from: Deborah on July 31, 2016, 07:55:42 AM
I don't like the word transgender because it is defined so broadly that it does not communicate a clear and precise idea of what one is trying to communicate.

I feel the same way.  "Transgender" is such a broad and all-inclusive term that it basically means nothing.  I don't mind labeling myself as a transsexual, because I identify as a woman and am medically transitioning.

But I also agree with Lady Sarah that TV shows such as Jerry Springer did a lot of harm to the term transsexual, so sometimes I prefer not to use it.  For example, when I speak with cis people, I refer to myself as transgender.  Besides, to most cis people, transgender is equivalent to transsexual.  Within the transgender community though, I refer to myself as a transsexual.

i said earlier:

Quote
In fact I think the need to fill the social role comes more from the physical incongruity rather than teh other way around.

I realized that statement might need some amplification.

There are more than few ggs that chafe and many aspects of the societal role defined as females, yet they have no desire to be male, nor do they wish to be perceived as male, because that is not who they are. Some fit the social role better than others. but regardless of degree they still want to be seen as females... (if not they would be T*)

In the same way, because a transsexual knows themselves to be innately female,  they need to physical change sex ... and that is regardless of how much they may or may not be attracted to or inanely fit the social role assigned to females ... but regardless of that they still wish to be seen and recognized as female human beings they know themselves to be. The social expectations that go along with that are just what they have to deal with, just as other women do.


As I said those are just my opinions.

- Karen
 

I don't mind the term transsexual as it's the term I've heard used for many years.  I used both transgender and transsexual in the first paragraph of the letter I sent to family and friends.  "... I am a transgender human being. The common word, although it is falling out of use, is I am transsexual," was what I wrote.  I used both because I wanted everyone to really understand what I was saying and to cisgender people, transsexual would convey the idea more efficiently.   Even among our community the way people use the words are different.  Dena said, "I am a former transsexual because a transsexual is one who wishes to change their gender."  Yet a friend of mine who had GRS in April, 1998 said, "I am post-op but I will always be a transsexual woman."  And you know what?  Dena and my friend are both correct because that is how they view themselves which is what's really important. 

I find this very confusing as I don't even know exactly what I am, will be. Not only my body and mind is in transition, also  is my sexual orientation, or maybe I was attracted by men before but the social pressure made me store this far away, anyways, very confusing... What is my gender? The others, the society decides that. I'm not becoming female, it's just that any maleness I had, both forged following social pressure and biochemically, has vanished. What is left is me, not sure what gender, who I am...

so how to call myself...  ???

besides in my language, the word genre (gender) cannot really apply to persons, so the word transgenre is kind of weird but commonly used and I'm really not sure what people have in mind when we say that here, and I don't know what word they use in France.

Just Trans for now or transsexual

corrector here says transsexualism is the right word, ->-bleeped-<- doesn't exist
:P

since I don't think I will ever be able to ''hide the fact I was male before'', never will be able to go unnoticed, call that to pass or however, I think I rather embrace a trans identity, as I feel very good with my body just as it is now + more HRT, I just don't know how to call that yet. What about the term queer, is that more generic, more specific, does it apply to people all mixed up like me?  :laugh:

My view on it: I'm transsexual because I have taken medical steps to alter my physical sex. I am also transgender because anyone that is transsexual is also transgender, since transgender is an umbrella term. Not everyone who is transgender is also transsexual.

Makes sense all thank you for clarifying your thoughts on this, sorry if my wording could have ruffled a few feathers, I just realized that now. And regarding semantics the term is rather specific. Youre right though people should be allowed to use the terms they see fit and not be forced into something.


As far as my personal trans identity goes, I guess Id be considered 'transsexual' based on the idea I wanted to alter physical elements to look and express myself as the gender I am, but I just cant quite escape the circumstances of my birth entirely, physically I still have characteristics Im not and that determines my sex, which is why I personally do not grasp the term 'transsexual' to the literal extent.


Cheers to you all

Dislike being called transgender and correct anyone who uses that term to describe me.  Legally I am a transsexual woman that is transexed.

EOM

I agree with others, the sexual is what I get hung up on.  It seems very easy to confuse with sexual orientation.  The word pansexual sort of demonstrates this.

Paige :)

For 20 years I've self-identified as transgender and been conflicted over 'transexual' because for a variety of reasons I wanted to transition and for a variety of reasons decided not to.

15 years ago I couldn't conceive of doing HRT or GCS and didn't believe I ever would pursue anything but social transition. Then depression returned and while that wasn't all about gender it's been a huge factor. It took 2 years of therapy to get to that (on top of 6 years of therapy in the late '90s/early '00s.

So fair to say I've been in denial about being transexual for a long time. And yet I'm not unhappy with the delay -- I'm in a far more stable place emotionally and I don't think I had it in me to deal with the standards of care that would have applied then. Reactions of my partner and children to my transgender status also influenced the decision, still I would have decided the same, maybe I'd have gotten to the point of start HRT earlier if the reinforcement had been positive.

To me transexual means wanting or choosing to change both secondary and as many as possible primary  sex characteristics.

For the time I identified as transgender (transexual in denial), I made do with cross dressing as the main outward expression.

I think it really just depends on who you ask at the time. The definitions have changed numerous times over the year, even among different regions of the same area! I still look at it as I'm transsexual, but I only use trans when identifying myself because cis people don't seem to understand what trans-sexual actually means and they immediately think it's a fetish. Easier to use what sounds like an umbrella term and leave it at that.

I consider myself transSEXual because it is the SEX characteristics which cause my dysphoria and which I need fixed.

The term transgender is useful politically but a problem socially because cis people assume I have an issue with gender roles and expression, which I really don't.

Dysphoria really comes down to SEX characteristics because those are what is different between males and females, so having a male brain in a female body, SEX and SEXUALITY are the problem, not anything else. All the other aspects of my personality and life are do not belong to one gender or another in our 21st century society!

As an American, I hate to talk about sexuality in any way, of course--it's a taboo subject! But I did desensitize myself somewhat by coming out as gay years ago. Sexuality has broader impacts in your life--like your choice of partner--which necessitates talking about it, even in a euphemistic way. Just being totally honest, most of the emotional/personality change with testosterone centered around sexuality (that and it affected my mood disorder profoundly, which is to be expected since I am trans). And what is different between men and women? Well, some muscle growth, some skeletal ratios, and, oh, sexuality! Sorry, we're stuck talking about this, taboo or no!

To the OP, I reject the notion of chromosomes as all wise and all knowing. You are disregarding intersex people and chimeras, as well as the fact that the male gene can jump out of the Y chromosome in some cases meaning there are XY females and XX males. So not only is this quite silly, it's also essentialist and in a sense wants to say that people like us don't exist. Because we are MIXED in our sex characteristics. That's the whole problem. The whole disease in a nutshell. We have masculinized, unmasculinized, or partially masculinized brains and our bodies don't match. This is not about gender, man or woman in society. It's about sex--male or female. You could have dysphoria about either one, of course, but only dysphoria about SEX is treated with hormones and surgery--get it?

If society makes you dysphoric, change society. If your body makes you dysphoric, change your body. Gender is undergoing a state of massive flux here and now. But bodies are the same as they ever were.

Quote from: Paige on August 01, 2016, 01:10:19 PM
I agree with others, the sexual is what I get hung up on.  It seems very easy to confuse with sexual orientation.  The word pansexual sort of demonstrates this.

Paige :)

I thought pansexual was a sexual orientation, not a gender identity, but correct me if I'm wrong. I thought there was a whole school of thought around bisexual people calling themselves pan because bi was supposedly trans exclusive according to collected internet wisdom (taste the sarcasm).

Quote from: Soli on July 31, 2016, 08:38:53 PM
since I don't think I will ever be able to ''hide the fact I was male before'', never will be able to go unnoticed, call that to pass or however, I think I rather embrace a trans identity, as I feel very good with my body just as it is now + more HRT, I just don't know how to call that yet. What about the term queer, is that more generic, more specific, does it apply to people all mixed up like me?  :laugh:

I think queer would exactly apply to someone "mixed-up" like you because the sense of the word since the 1990s has been about blurring boundaries and transgressing categories.  ;)

Quote from: AnxietyDisord3r on August 07, 2016, 05:32:16 AM
I thought pansexual was a sexual orientation, not a gender identity, but correct me if I'm wrong. I thought there was a whole school of thought around bisexual people calling themselves pan because bi was supposedly trans exclusive according to collected internet wisdom (taste the sarcasm).

I don't want to step on anyone's toes but I think what she meant was being pansexual is all about being attractred to all genders a person could be and not about what sex parts they have or dont have.

I uses both the terms "transgender" and "transsexual" when it comes to trans men and trans women. I also thinks the term "transsexual" are right to use, because it's tell us which one you mean. "Transgender" can be everything that is under the trans umbrella, but "transsexual" refer to trans men and trans women. Even though it's a medical term, I also use it for people who doesn't undergo medical treatment as well.

Quote from: AnxietyDisord3r on August 07, 2016, 05:32:16 AM
I thought pansexual was a sexual orientation, not a gender identity, but correct me if I'm wrong. I thought there was a whole school of thought around bisexual people calling themselves pan because bi was supposedly trans exclusive according to collected internet wisdom (taste the sarcasm).

Maybe I don't understand your comment.  Bisexual and pansexual are sexual orientations. On the other hand transsexual isn't a sexual orientation but a change in sex characteristics to confirm gender identity.  That's why I prefer transgender, but neither term seems to hit the mark exactly.

Maybe the other thing that gets me about having the term "sexual" in the word transsexual is that it sort of reinforces the ignorant idea this is some sort of fetish.

Take care,
Paige :)

Quote from: Paige on August 07, 2016, 08:55:40 AM
Maybe I don't understand your comment.  Bisexual and pansexual are sexual orientations. On the other hand transsexual isn't a sexual orientation but a change in sex characteristics to confirm gender identity.  That's why I prefer transgender, but neither term seems to hit the mark exactly.

Maybe the other thing that gets me about having the term "sexual" in the word transsexual is that it sort of reinforces the ignorant idea this is some sort of fetish.

Take care,
Paige :)

"Sex" comes from the Latin word "sexus". Therefor it's used in many terms. Btw one word can have difference meanings. E.g. "gay" can mean "Homosexual" and "happy". Therefor the term "transsexual" is right for me to use and it hasn't anything with sexuality to do. "Transsexual" is when the gender identity doesn't match the assigned sex.

Quote from: Sebby Michelango on August 07, 2016, 01:44:50 PM
"Sex" comes from the Latin word "sexus". Therefor it's used in many terms. Btw one word can have difference meanings. E.g. "gay" can mean "Homosexual" and "happy". Therefor the term "transsexual" is right for me to use and it hasn't anything with sexuality to do. "Transsexual" is when the gender identity doesn't match the assigned sex.

Hey Sebby,

I'm sure it works okay for lots of people.  I'm not saying you shouldn't use it.  It just never sat well with me.  Probably all the misuse in the 90s by Jerry Springer et al.

Take care,
Paige :)

I don't so much see the 'sexual' aspect - sex or sexuality as we usually think of them - in the term transsexual. That's probably because of my background in scientific biology. There the term sexual usually refers to physical characteristics, i.e. the gonads and things concerning them. Transgender is such a wide umbrella term I find myself having to explain what that is and what it means to different people for far longer than the term transsexual takes to define.

It doesn't have much to do with sexuality at all to my mind. But with the way the words sex and sexuality are used at large I see the potential for confusion and association with the word as if it has more to do with who you want to sleep with than what you feel you are. Trangender sounds more 'polite' and less about sex. Even so I end up having to explain what it all is to most people who ask in full anyway. I'd rather use the term transsexual and get them comfortable with what it means, get rid of any untrue associations off the bat.

I thought Jerry Springer did a lot to humanize transsexuals in the minds of the public, much more so than previous talk shows where "->-bleeped-<-s" were always prostitutes. The Springer show had love for its freaks. For example: "Who Wants To Marry A Transsexual?" I thought that was a great show. The titular transsexual hooks up with a bi woman who's "been with men and women and knows what [she] likes" because she was the best kisser.

I know Jerry Springer is terrible and all that but in some ways he did a service by desensitizing people who weren't part of academia to the whole GLBT rainbow. Remember, even talking about "the gay" or about trans people was very taboo up through the 1980s. Remember how liberals used to say "not that there's anything wrong with that!" I used to hate that phrase. It was to cover the social discomfort of touching taboo topics, while adopting a pose that the speaker is totally, totally cool with your taboo freakishness. Springer said gays, lesbians, bi people, transsexuals are people too. They live, love, and struggle just like you. Also, your stereotypes about what GLBT people look like are wrong. That's the message of all those "I've got a secret" episodes.

I know this opinion is controversial, but for me, Springer helped my self esteem as a young queer person and I felt so relieved that somebody was talking to middle brow America about these issues, somebody other than lying preachers trying to make a buck off fearmongering about GLBT.

I describe myself as a transexual woman, pre-op and post-op. That's the term I became familiar with, and best describes me. Well, I'm not cisgender, never will be, so transexual fits. To me it's quite specific. It has always been the term that all medical people have used when treating me.
The term 'Transgender', is more recent to me, and seems to be much more an umbrella catch-all term.

Quote from: Deborah on July 31, 2016, 07:55:42 AM
I don't like the word transgender because it is defined so broadly that it does not communicate a clear and precise idea of what one is trying to communicate.

For me, that's the reason why I prefer "transgender": In my opinion, it doesn't matter whether I do HRT or whether I had GRS (except when I talk about exactly that). Also, I dislike "transsexual" for three reasons:

• It's a psychatric term, and it has been used to pathologize people's feelings. There are exact definitions who counts as "transsexual" and who doesn't, and I don't fulfill the requirements to be "really" transsexual (see next point). So, psychiatrists have questioned my identity when I needed HRT evaluation. Should be enough to question the term and it's (psychatric) definition.
• As I see it, transsexual is mostly used for trans* people who are assigned male or female at birth, but are the "other" gender (female or male, again). It's very strictly bound to the idea that there are only two sexes and two genders (see ICS-10 definition of "transsexualism"). However, I'm neither a man nor a woman (for a couple of reasons). So there's no "opposite" sex/gender for me, so I don't like a term that's somehow linked to the idea of opposite sexes/genders.
• Also, I think it's often used to distinguish between "real transsexuals" and "the other ones", like cross dressers, which are then considered to be "second-class transgender", if any. I think that's over-simplifying and can be hurtful. When it's necessary to talk about certain medical things, you can just name them.

This is why I currently like the terms "non-binary transgender" for me. Of course, those are only personal opinions and preferences.

Quote from: j-unique on August 11, 2016, 08:43:10 AM
so I don't like a term that's somehow linked to the idea of opposite sexes/genders

I think this is the idea that is carried in both words, transgender and transsexual, the prefix trans is suggesting a move from one to another, I mean it could mean from one of the 42 genders but for most people, there are 2, so the prefix trans in that context suggests the idea of two.

I don't consider myself male nor female either, therefore any word with trans isn't really accurate since I'm not moving from one to another, I never really was male and never really will be female.

In both sexes the word used to describe ends the suffix 'male': female and male. Now it seems when undertaking HRT, we lose that suffix, I wonder why.

It's also a matter of language, in French, persons don't have a gender, things have a gender, so if I say in French that I'm changing gender (je change de genre), people would think I'm adopting a new lifestyle, a new way to think, until I specify: sexe, je change de sexe -ahhhh). I think it's the same in all Latin languages and I also think it's the same in English but since English doesn't use the gender of things, the word gender kind of extended to persons but uhhhh I doubt that officially the word gender can apply to persons in English too.

Quote from: WolfNightV4X1 on July 31, 2016, 12:34:16 AM


Those objecting to the idea of transgender people will often bring up the fact that transmen and women are not men and woman but 'masculinized women' and 'feminized males'. This is backed by the clear biological and karyotypical fact that all men and women cannot change their genetic makeup, they are all XX or XY, and this cannot be undone. SRS is merely a close imitation of the physical genitalia of the proper sex as well, rather than making correct genitals, they see it as butchering or creating facades.

this is terf stuff, not at all to be taken serious or wasting time on. Not everyone is born xx or xy either.

I preferred to be called my gender, which is female. But yes, I am a transsexual female undergoing medical transition as opposed to a cisgender female. I do not like to be called transgender personally, because it's simply too big of an umbrella term. I take zero offense to the word transsexual. Everyone has different views on the word though and just because I am not offended by a word most certainly doesn't mean that someone else won't be.

"Biological determinism reduces a human being to the state of a mechanical device.  I sense we are more than that and possess a divine spirit.  This spirit, however it is joined to the mechanical device of the body, is who I am.

It amazes me that the ones that hold most strongly to this idea of humans as a mechanical device are the ones that so loudly proclaim the spirit. "

This is brilliantly said. I wholeheartedly agree.

To the OP: For whatever reason, the word transsexual makes me cringe. I'm not sure its the word itself, the fact that its sort of old fashioned, or its just one of those words that makes me ears bleed--I have few of those words haha

What an interesting question and responses. I never really thought much about it other than going but the most recent and standard definitions that you see here and other places, most of which are pretty much in agreement. I consider myself Transgender and have never used or considered the term Transexual, likely because it seemed old fashioned to me.

Recently, i just use woman or girl more than anything and drop any modifier to that, but you can't get away from it some of the time. Also it helps to identify as part of the wonderful community that we are, so from that standpoint I sort of like the umbrella aspect of it all.

There are new terms appearing all the time and i like umbrella term gender variant also.

*

I am from the era of 'transsexual'.  I have always been female, I changed my apparent anatomic 'sex', not my female 'gender'.

On the other hand, I have come to know some who are younger and they are highly strident to use only 'transgender'.  They abhor 'transsexual'.

To each your own.

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Quote from: WolfNightV4X1 on July 31, 2016, 12:34:16 AM
Those objecting to the idea of transgender people will often bring up the fact that transmen and women are not men and woman but 'masculinized women' and 'feminized males'. This is backed by the clear biological and karyotypical fact that all men and women cannot change their genetic makeup, they are all XX or XY, and this cannot be undone.

Chromosomes don't determine sex. There are XY females, etc.
Anyone who claims they're men would probably be denounced or ignored by the general public.
If I had to choose, being an XY female would be much better.

They don't like trans because trans is trans. Changing later in life.
Even if we had some Martians come down to reconstruct us, I'm sure they would still complain.

I don't really know anything about all this wrote here and i have trouble understanding it
but i do not feel comfortable with the word transexual even if it means no harm i'll be in my grave before i'm called that i dislike the sounds of it i just do not like it. I'm trans/transgender and that's what i'll use.

I had never even heard of the word "transgender" until fairly recently.
I mostly just heard about transsexuals, usually in the context of people having surgery.

I am a post-op transsexual woman. 

Two years ago I was a cis gender male with an undiagnosed medical condition.   I'm much better now.

I expect the meaning of the word 'transgender' will ultimately be defined by the media and popular usage, much like the word 'hacker' was hacked from it's original meaning of 'a gifted programmer' to 'cyber outlaw' by the media.   I rarely see media pieces that use the terminology that most of us in the transgender community use ourselves.  The GLAAD Media Reference Guide is routinely ignored by the media. 

It makes it harder to communicate when there is a free-for-all on the use of terminology.  When someone tells me they are 'transgender', I'm not sure what that really means.  The Williams Institute of UCLA reported that 1.4 million people self-identify as 'transgender'.  To me, that's an almost meaningless statistic.  Does that figure include male cross-dressers, ->-bleeped-<-s, and drag queens?  Does it include people who are cisgender but androgynous in appearance?  Who knows?  A more rigorous study by Harris at the U.S Census Bureau concluded that there are only about 90,000 transsexual men and women who have transitioned to include name and/or gender marker change. That a huge difference even if half the actually number.

When it's necessary for me to reveal my medical background (a rare circumstance these days), I say that I'm a 'trans woman'.   I'll say 'transsexual woman' if the extent of my physical transition is relevant.  If the listener seems confused, I'll fall back to 'transgender', and then try to correct some of the myths and misconception they've absorbed through the media and other sources if they're interested.

From my perspective, the focus on transgender vs cisgender status in society is overdone.  I may not be cisgender by definition, but having transitioned physically and socially to female, I've reduced my GD to an occasional short flareup. Where I am today, it's a distinction without a difference.

Quote from: Clara Kay on October 04, 2016, 02:52:23 PM
I expect the meaning of the word 'transgender' will ultimately be defined by the media and popular usage, much like the word 'hacker' was hacked from it's original meaning of 'a gifted programmer' to 'cyber outlaw' by the media.   I rarely see media pieces that use the terminology that most of us in the transgender community use ourselves.  The GLAAD Media Reference Guide is routinely ignored by the media. 

It makes it harder to communicate when there is a free-for-all on the use of terminology.  When someone tells me they are 'transgender', I'm not sure what that really means.  The Williams Institute of UCLA reported that 1.4 million people self-identify as 'transgender'.  To me, that's an almost meaningless statistic.  Does that figure include male cross-dressers, ->-bleeped-<-s, and drag queens?  Does it include people who are cisgender but androgynous in appearance?  Who knows?  A more rigorous study by Harris at the U.S Census Bureau concluded that there are only about 90,000 transsexual men and women who have transitioned to include name and/or gender marker change. That a huge difference even if half the actually number.

When it's necessary for me to reveal my medical background (a rare circumstance these days), I say that I'm a 'trans woman'.   I'll say 'transsexual woman' if the extent of my physical transition is relevant.  If the listener seems confused, I'll fall back to 'transgender', and then try to correct some of the myths and misconception they've absorbed through the media and other sources if they're interested.

From my perspective, the focus on transgender vs cisgender status in society is overdone.  I may not be cisgender by definition, but having transitioned physically and socially to female, I've reduced my GD to an occasional short flareup. Where I am today, it's a distinction without a difference.

Here is the definition we use on the site:

Transgender: an inclusive umbrella term which covers anyone who transcends their birth gender for any reason. This includes but is not limited to Androgynes, Crossdressers, Drag kings, Drag queens, Intersexuals, Transsexuals, and ->-bleeped-<-s.

It sounds like the Williams study is only counting transsexuals, but using the term transgender, which encompasses many other groups.

Hugs, Devlyn

For the moment I call it a "Hormonal Imbalance" which I seek treatment for... My way of sugarcoating and avoiding labels.

Quote from: T.K.G.W. on July 31, 2016, 06:56:42 AM
In my understanding, the term transsexual refers to someone who specifically changes the status and appearance of their biological sex.

Transgender could describe crossing boundaries of prescribed roles, expectations, etc. without necessarily altering biological characteristics, and includes people who do not transition. The word gender is a broader descriptor than the term sex (biological sex) and refers more to how we classify ourselves mentally and out in the world. Transsexual is a more specific term, and I use it instead of transgender to describe myself, because I am more concerned with the appearance of the body and the biological sex than other things. I don't think of myself as a female changing to a male, or crossing roles and genders, I think of myself as a male changing female-like body characteristics to male ones. A guy with gynaecomastia doesn't usually think of himself as a transgender person if he gets the problem fixed. Neither do I.

Awesomeness!!!!       that might be the best description I've ever encountered. 

Quote from: sarah1972 on October 04, 2016, 04:20:25 PM
For the moment I call it a "Hormonal Imbalance" which I seek treatment for... My way of sugarcoating and avoiding labels.

"Are you transgender?" "No, I had a hormone imbalance when I was young (in the womb) which led to me looking like this and the medical system wasn't too bothered about treating it"

That's not technically a lie.

I'm in a pretty weird place I guess. Being between transitions is not advised. Technically, I am a transexual. But I don't like that term, because, as already mentioned, it puts so much emphasis on the 'SEX' part.

If anyone was to ask me, I would not have a problem referring to myself as 'Transgen'. That's ok with me, and pretty much says it all.

Once everything settles down, if it ever does, I will definitely prefer to be referred to as Tanya. That's who I am.

Tanya   :icon_lips: