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Call it shallow, call it a poor path to choose as a trans person, but this is how I feel.

Ive spent so much time looking at transgirls develop into beautiful women with such successful transitions. Yes, often times they are in their teens or early 20's which makes me jealous since I am in my early 30's. My point is, I want to have a transition as successful as theirs in a mental and a physical capacity. The only thing is I have certain conditions I give myself in order to be happy. 

I need to pass 100% no matter what. My body better be undeniably female. My face (maybe if a bit of ffs needed) needs to have a face of a beautiful woman and a voice that doesnt cause people to question gender. OF COURSE, WE ALL WANT THIS. How is this different with me?

I refuse to look masculine, like a guy in a dress and wig. I need to have zero muscle and a full figure of curves. If I dont, I will choose to detransition. However, I am only 2 weeks in my transition and taking E and Spiro. I dont want to be an awkward looking guy with boobs. Call it superficial, but I just want to feel sexy and not an outcast to society.

I dont want to feel fake! I have felt that all my life, so why transition to feel fake again?? My dilemma, my conditions to transitioning, and my truth. Anyone else relate to this?

Before and very early into transition, and HRT, I could relate to this.
But not now. HRT seems to have a magical and wonderful effect of not making any of that matter so much.

Don't get me wrong, I want to look nice and dress nice, but what really matters is that I'm me and happy.

Jaselle,
I am  not trying to be disrespectful to you in my response, but you are setting an impossible standard for yourself. You will not transition unless you can be 100% this or that? No one gets 100% of anything they want. Even if you looked perfect, and, unlikely as it is, never gave yourself away with mannerisms, you would face doubts in your own mind all the time. There are times when you would pass totally that you would still panic about, "Did I pass?" In my experience, you have to decide what is best for you and then try as hard as possible to make that choice work. Expecting perfection is a recipe for disaster.
Moni

Always try to remember that even cis females can get gendered as male. Moni is right, no one gets 100%, in anything. 'Mostly happy most of time' is my own desire, and even the bad helps us appreciate the good even more.

Quote from: Jaselle on August 08, 2016, 09:52:58 AM
Call it shallow, call it a poor path to choose as a trans person, but this is how I feel.

Ive spent so much time looking at transgirls develop into beautiful women with such successful transitions. Yes, often times they are in their teens or early 20's which makes me jealous since I am in my early 30's. My point is, I want to have a transition as successful as theirs in a mental and a physical capacity. The only thing is I have certain conditions I give myself in order to be happy. 

I need to pass 100% no matter what. My body better be undeniably female. My face (maybe if a bit of ffs needed) needs to have a face of a beautiful woman and a voice that doesnt cause people to question gender. OF COURSE, WE ALL WANT THIS. How is this different with me?

I refuse to look masculine, like a guy in a dress and wig. I need to have zero muscle and a full figure of curves. If I dont, I will choose to detransition. However, I am only 2 weeks in my transition and taking E and Spiro. I dont want to be an awkward looking guy with boobs. Call it superficial, but I just want to feel sexy and not an outcast to society.

I dont want to feel fake! I have felt that all my life, so why transition to feel fake again?? My dilemma, my conditions to transitioning, and my truth. Anyone else relate to this?

OK, I will call it superficial. None of the attributes that you list make someone an outcast to society. It sounds like YOU might cast these people aside, but that doesn't mean anyone else will.  :-\  Try to cut everyone, including yourself, a bit of slack.

Hugs, Devlyn

Two weeks, and you're already wondering? It takes some people several years to get to the point where they are now. When it comes to transitioning, patience is a virtue. The further you get, the better you should feel ... and more relaxed.

Setting an ultimatum for yourself in these regards is unwarranted and unwise. It seems like a path to self destruction.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on August 08, 2016, 02:29:57 PM
OK, I will call it superficial. None of the attributes that you list make someone an outcast to society. It sounds like YOU might cast these people aside, but that doesn't mean anyone else will.  :-\  Try to cut everyone, including yourself, a bit of slack.

Hugs, Devlyn

I dont judge others. I was speaking only for myself and how I internalize those aspects of me. Being trans is not entirely accepted in our society to not be concerned about being an outcast. I gave no inclination that I cast people to the side so please reserve such accusations for transphobic bigots or for those who pass uninformed judgement.

As for everyone else, thanks much for the valuable advise. I dont expect to have a full transition completed overnight and I will be patient, but I just fear the unknown. Is it wrong to want to fit in, be loved and enjoy a successful life? Im not naive to think that trans people arent treated differently. There are limitations placed upon us by society to find good jobs, to fall in love or anything else that cis people dont need to face on a daily basis. Discrimination is a major concern of mine. Ive been looking at the glass half full which is what gave me the courage to finally get therapy and eventually start hrt. That alone was a huge obstacle for me. Now that I am on the other side and taking hormones, its a reality check to assess the future that awaits as someone who transitions. Please dont take my curiosity as negativity, rather its how I think about everything in life; calculated steps.

Jaselle, I think that you'd need a crystal ball to be able to answer your question. If you set yourself impossibly high goals, you're really just setting yourself up for failure and/or frustration. Be realistic about what you can achieve, and if you surpass that, then count yourself lucky.
If your primary motivation for transitioning is to look gorgeous and 100% convincing, then maybe you're looking into it for the wrong reasons. Looks are invariably linked to youth, luck and the "right" genetics. It's possible with a lot of effort, makeup and just the right photo to appear fabulous, but is that a sustainable lifestyle?
Why not just be yourself and see where that takes you? There's much more to life than looking good, despite what the media would have us think. True beauty lies within.

Quote from: V on August 08, 2016, 04:35:36 PM
Jaselle, I think that you'd need a crystal ball to be able to answer your question. If you set yourself impossibly high goals, you're really just setting yourself up for failure and/or frustration. Be realistic about what you can achieve, and if you surpass that, then count yourself lucky.
If your primary motivation for transitioning is to look gorgeous and 100% convincing, then maybe you're looking into it for the wrong reasons. Looks are invariably linked to youth, luck and the "right" genetics. It's possible with a lot of effort, makeup and just the right photo to appear fabulous, but is that a sustainable lifestyle?
Why not just be yourself and see where that takes you? There's much more to life than looking good, despite what the media would have us think. True beauty lies within.

I started hrt because I had intense dysphoria and needed to see myself in the mirror as a woman, to feel like a woman and to be seen as a woman. The reason I decided to begin taking hormones is primarily for psychological reasons, however, being able to pass validates myself as the person I shouldve been born as.

You among the others who posted realize I set very high standards. Perhaps they are unrealistic to some extent but I cant change how I feel. This stems even from my male form as I constantly critique myself harshly, so as a transwoman, I feel I need to live up to these physical standards of beauty to be at peace and finally be the woman I always shouldve been. I know its a flawed way of thinking, but thats how I feel at this early phase of my transition. The fear brings it out of me. I wish I had a crystal ball! 😛

Jaselle,

I am pretty sure I know where you are coming from. However, ultimatums are a terrible thing. They make us do (or not do) things for the wrong reasons.

As I understand it, we all have doubts. We are human(contrary to how I have felt most of my life). I don't think Devlyn was attacking but really just suggesting you breathe. Relax a little and let the HRT do it's work. Then wait and see what happens. Try to enjoy the changes. It's hard not to focus on the "problem areas"(which ever they are for you). However, what has ever been easy that was worth doing?

I also wanted to welcome you to the site. I don't think anyone has officially done that. I want to share some links with you. They are mostly welcome information and the rules that govern the site. If you have not had a chance to look through them, please take a moment:

Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html)	Standard Terms & Definitions (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html)	Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar) (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,114.0.html.)
Reputation rules (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,18960.0.html)	News posting & quoting guidelines (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,174951.0.html)	Photo, avatars, & signature images policy (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,59974.msg383866.html#msg383866)

Once again, welcome to Susan's. Look around, ask questions and join in.

With warmth,

Joanna

Jaselle,
   There are transgender people on this site  who persevere under incredibly difficult circumstances. I am in awe of them. I aspire to be as good at shaking things off and coping with problems. I am an amateur in this. My motivation carries me through many things that are hard, including putting myself in harm's way. I hope you will not feel attacked in your thread here. People might take offense if you state that things must be perfect for it to be good enough for you to transition. I don't think you mean to offend. I hope you realize that nothing is totally safe. I think transitioning is such an act of vulnerability. If you do it, there will be hard times. You will pay a price for transitioning, but there is also a price for living with dysphoria. You are the sole judge of what is best for you. You and I can both learn from people on this site who have a great wealth of experience. I wish you well on your journey!
Moni

Quote from: Jaselle on August 08, 2016, 04:46:09 PM
I started hrt because I had intense dysphoria and needed to see myself in the mirror as a woman, to feel like a woman and to be seen as a woman. The reason I decided to begin taking hormones is primarily for psychological reasons, however, being able to pass validates myself as the person I shouldve been born as.

You among the others who posted realize I set very high standards. Perhaps they are unrealistic to some extent but I cant change how I feel. This stems even from my male form as I constantly critique myself harshly, so as a transwoman, I feel I need to live up to these physical standards of beauty to be at peace and finally be the woman I always shouldve been. I know its a flawed way of thinking, but thats how I feel at this early phase of my transition. The fear brings it out of me. I wish I had a crystal ball! 😛

I was trying to help, seen as you posted the question. If that is you in your profile pic, then you already look very attractive. In fact, far better looking than I could ever be. If I looked as good as you, I'd be very pleased, but I don't, so as my profile saying goes, I gotta make the best of it. I started hrt in my late 20's, had my srs when I was 30, but for me, T had had plenty of time and unfavourable genetics to cause plenty of damage. I still pass most of the time, and I've not experienced discrimination due to being trans. I have however experienced plenty of discrimination due to being female. I've had plenty of boyfriends, been engaged twice, been proposed to countless times, and all the time while not being gorgeous or having a curvy feminine figure. Not even FFS. I'm just myself, and I find that when I am happy just being me, I have the best success in life.
And I'm paranoid about being 'made', and it happens now and then, and it's tough to deal with, but it's still better than being stuck as a guy, when I knew I wasn't one.
Hrt and it's effects take time, and I'm talking years. Then there's the other stuff that we usually need to do too, like beard removal, voice training, etc... It could take years for you to fully blossom and grow into the woman you are inside. I'm sure you'd be surprised in a good way if you could fast forward and see yourself in 10 years time, but none of us can do that.

Jaselle, I am not going to judge you for wanting those things.  I wont advise against having such high standards, if that's what you want.

But let's be realistic here.  How will you afford all of these cosmetic procedures?  Do you have a high-paying job?  Do you have a lot of savings?  FFS, breast augmentation, fat injections to thighs/butt - all these things together will easily cost $50,000 or more.  And then $20,000+ for SRS.  Let's not forget laser/electrolysis.  That's several thousand more, at least.  Do you need hair transplants?  Voice training is not cheap either.  Maybe you'll need voice surgery?  Is that another $10,000 or more?

Do you have more than $100,000 in cash savings to fulfill your "ultimatum" to yourself?  If not, what are you going to realistically do to earn and save that kind of money?  Or... you may want to consider lowering your expectations and instead focus on the other things that have already been said in this thread.

You can say whatever you want.  You can feel however you want.  That's totally within your rights.  But if you want something to actually happen, you need to take realistic steps in the real world to make those things happen.  Or, adjust your expectations and goals.

I can't put a price tag on happiness, but yes, procedures are expensive. I feel I have been quite realistic in my assessment for what I want and the means to attain what I desire. 100k is quite a stretch. Caitlyn Jenner's surgery cost an estimated 70k. The procedures I want done estimate to be around 20-40k, depending on the surgeon. Between savings and financing options, I dont think it is  unreasonable to have these expectations.

Aside from the financial aspect of transitioning, is this not any different than anyone else taking measures to seek a face and body that matches what they feel they should be seeing in the mirror? I appreciate honest opinions and I am greatful for the input from those with real life experiences. I understand I need to be at peace with myself and accept myself regardless of appearance, but I need to feel comfortable in my own skin. Regardless of what others think, I dont want to look in the mirror and see any masculine features. Its my dysphoria speaking when I need to get rid of all male characteristics. As for my "ultimatum" that seems to predetermine my transition as unfulfilled and destructive, I see it as a goal, a standard, a path to be me. I will wait to see how my body reacts to hrt for the next year or so. In the meantime, I shall save my money for the day I get ffs and fix any imperfections I deem necessary to make me, well...ME.

 My Own Ultimatum this is how I handle it in my brain every morning when I get up and use the bath room the next thing I all ways  do is take my med's and doing that puts a smile on my face ( why does that do that for me) it does that because I then say Brandy your living the dream loving life and each day is a walk down the path of happiness with in myself knowing I am doing what I want because I want to be happy Its like the wizard of oz I am going down that golden path and what ever happens to my body in transitioning is going to open up a new path in life When I get dress each day and I slip on my panties I love to say O do I want white cotton today or do I want sexy Pink ones So what I say to sum all this up is each one of us should live life to the fullest be happy and do what makes you feel great. Pamper yourself weekly if not daily Your transitioning each morning should be like Xmas morning when you were a child be happy with what ever gift in  transitioning you have and get and I send this reply to all of you from deep with in my heart

One of my best female, GG, friends, had trouble "Passing". I've known other women, not 6ft tall like I am and deep voiced, who also have had "issues". All totally straight, totally gender conforming. Yet....

One of the BIGGEST lessons I've learned after TWO FAILED transition attempts is that if you cannot accept yourself for who and what you are with all the plusses and all the minusses, you are going to condemn yourself to a life a misery. It takes a lot of work to love yourself for who and as you are. I know no way no how I can ever be a beauty queen. Yet, most days when I leave the house I feel like one and.... I am not alone.

Nice job JoanneB you posted a great positive statement yes we all are beauty queens with in our own feelings Will I ever really be one no  But Like you I am happy with myself and that is what counts

I decided against transition 15 years ago and labeled myself both vain and shallow because the impracticality of achieving anything like 'pretty' was my main decision point against.

My therapist has seen me go from this stance to deciding to transition last September, and start hrt by the first week of January.

I won't pass 19 days out of 20. I also don't plan to look like a guy in a dress and I'm contenting myself with presenting as genderqueer.  Less than 2 years is a very short time to go from decision to GRS but that's the plan. 20 years of living closeted has taken its toll, it's also 20 years to get to know myself as femme so it doesn't feel like a rush to me.

Quote from: SadieBlake on August 17, 2016, 05:23:02 PM
I decided against transition 15 years ago and labeled myself both vain and shallow because the impracticality of achieving anything like 'pretty' was my main decision point against.

My therapist has seen me go from this stance to deciding to transition last September, and start hrt by the first week of January.

I won't pass 19 days out of 20. I also don't plan to look like a guy in a dress and I'm contenting myself with presenting as genderqueer.  Less than 2 years is a very short time to go from decision to GRS but that's the plan. 20 years of living closeted has taken its toll, it's also 20 years to get to know myself as femme so it doesn't feel like a rush to me.

My thoughts were very similar to yours. The reality for me was that 15 years later the risk of not fitting in to society was minor when compared with the certainty of feeling sick and depressed all the time from the gender dysphoria.

Joanne you are beautiful tho :)

What an interesting debate!

Personally, I don't see anything wrong in your 'ultimatum' to yourself - it just seems to be another of the choices we have to face on a daily basis - 'would I prefer to transition to less than what I consider perfection or continue to suffer the emotional pain of dysphoria'.  That's a decision only you can make as, clearly, you have to live with the consequences.

Other posters to this thread have talked about having realistic goals and I think that is key.  For the most part, FFS will work with the anatomy you already have - it can obviously make you look younger through 'lifts' and more feminine through bone work on the brow, nose & chin but, in the end, it won't fundamentally change your face (i.e. your eye separation, position of mouth relative to eyes etc.).  A look at the befores and afters on FFS clinic websites underlines this - the individual changes are usually subtle but their combination makes you look and see the face of a woman.  What makes the real change is then makeup and I sense that you would be an enthusiastic user of cosmetics.  Whilst the whole Caitlyn Jenner circus leaves me cold, she is a great example of this as we were able to see her post FFS-while still presenting as male and compare this to her post transition persona.  Through cosmetics, women are far more able to be who and what they want to be.

I would guess that you already have a pretty good idea of how you look pre-FFS but with feminising makeup.  This should be your guide and, if your aspiration sits too far from where you are at present, I fear you may be disappointed.  That said, you are too early in the process to see the results of your HRT and, as others have observed, you may find that you grow into your new persona as the hormones take hold.

I wish you every success and happiness in your journey,

Amanda

I think Amanda's got it.  FFS can take off the unwanted angles and bumps, but the overall appearance is something that good old makeup work can largely establish.  I wouldn't have believed it until last week.

I saw Harley Quinn's before and after makeup shots and was just blown away.  She nudged me in one exchange to look more at makeup, so I finally gave in and got a 45 minute makeover last week. It just blew me away!  No, it's not FFS, but it totally moved me from 'dude in a dress' to largely passing in 45 minutes.  (I stuck the before/after image in my gallery, and the after is my current avatar.)

Places like Ulta ($40) and Sephora (free with $50 purchase, easy to do there) offer this service, at least in many of their US stores, and they seem Trans-friendly.  Ask for a nice 'everyday' look that you can do at home.  Take notes, and ask questions.  When you get home practice applying that look even if not going out. 

Yeah, it's not a complete suite of surgeries, but it's more affordable, and it is easier to recover from mistakes. ;)

Yeah, it's not perfect, but it can be frighteningly effective.