Susan's Place Transgender Resources

This may sound a bit odd, but I'd like to hear people's opinions:

Is it possible to be on HRT and live relatively stealthily?, by which I mean not being obviously trans or post transition. I'd like to be read as female by people I don't know, but I'd also like for my friends just to see me as having become more androgynously feminine, if that makes sense.

In other words, as I already dress feminine/wear make-up/have a petite feminine build and long hair/have a unisex name, would I be able to transition without having to be obvious about it?

I think I'm making sense anyway. :P

The short answer, as I see things anyway, is YES.  You can be on hormones, even transitional dosings and still maintain androgyny.  That is about where I am at and I have been on transitional dosages for 10 months.  The changes are really obvious to people who know me, but for the general public I appear to be a really butch gal or very andro guy.  This is likely to remain the case for another year or so before some of the more pronounced aspects of transition begin to take place (i.e. BA and FFS).

I dress and play 100% as me, Kaity...but have worked through misgendering to as point it rarely bugs me.  I wear a work uniform shirt that is Uni, but mostly wear Dickies College pants.  With a tighter sports bra and an under shirt, I can minimize my breasts well enough to hide them, through with just a T-shirt...they cannot be hidden.  They will eventually become a tell when stealth might still be your goal.

Once you start, likely you will have a really hard time hiding HRT's magic after a few years.

After a while on HRT the breasts start to be a dead give away. And I have found that other things just start to show like keeping my nails done. Dressing more feminine and other signs that some miss and some don't. I do wear t-shirts at times to work and had one on the other day an one of the girls I work with made a comment that my boobs were starting to be bigger than hers. I laughed and said I just want to be one of the girls...I don't discuss my HRT with my co-workers yet. Maybe one day but now is not the time.
Heather

Definitely works for many people if they want it to. (in most situations). I like Kaitlynn, can look butch or androgynous if i try and you can wear things like minimizer and sports bras under shirts to flatten things out.

Some situations such as the beach are harder to pull off, but there are some solutions there as well.

Nails are a bit of a giveaway yes, but many women have short nails.

I already wear make-up and have long painted nails anyway, so that's unlikely to clue people in. My friends who don't know I'm trans just tend to think of me as a Brian Molko type character, and I'd be happy if that can continue during and after transition. I guess I'm just not wanting to make too big a deal out of everything, as I'm no way changing the person I am on the inside, of course.

Breast growth could be a potential problem, but as I'm only just over a hundred pounds in weight, my built would seem to suggest that I shouldn't get a massive amount of growth. I don't know.

I never go to the beach as that sort of thing holds no interest to me, so I'm not worried about ever appearing in anything less than a t-shirt and jacket.

This must depend on where you are and what your health service demands.

I would have loved to have done this, but for me, access to treatment (in the UK, but partly private to avoid waiting lists) was dependent on everything outward including name change being done first. There was no way I could've just had a little tester period of HRT to see how it went. I asked. I read that a lot of people were able to access this option.

Ideally I could've just merged into the new at an undefined point, which is what I had hoped would happen. In a strange way, I wish the SRS came first, because it's both the most and the least, if you know what I mean. I know that my personality and psychology deals well with big things, and adapts to fit. Whereas this, to me, is backwards and more brutal than it needs to be.

Maybe that's a good thing. I understand it, I just don't like it. I guess I could've shopped around in a 'customer is always right' way, seeing as I'm largely paying for it myself, but that seems kind of aggressive.

There are a few things I've learned and had to take back to my private doctor however - I was told that the NHS does not pay for fertility preservation, and given the details of a private clinic at a cost of a couple of thousand. In the great postcode lottery of UK public healthcare, it turns out, my local health board does indeed pay for it, along with ten years storage, and two rounds of IVF.

If I was a cynical person, I might assume that private practitioners are earning kick backs for referrals between each other that the person doesn't actually need. ive read on here that other NHS boards cover hair removal. Mine doesn't, unfortunately, so I have to pay privately to listen to two hours of anti Semitic trash per week, and you can't really argue with someone bearing a needle towards your tensed lower face.

I could change electrolygist, but mine has great prices, and 'yeah, alright Adolf' under your breath doesn't require any muscle movement with an English accent.

It's possible in places where access to treatment doesn't depend on a real-life experience period first.  The gotcha is that as your appearance changes, you may be in danger of "male fail", changes that reach the point where you get gendered against your presentation attempt.

I'm old, so that isn't as much a risk for me.  Those of us in the permanent press wrinkle set grow to look more and more alike between assigned genders, between enlarging noses, hair growing where we don't want it, and neck wattle confusing the tracheal tell.  In my particular case, though, I'm already a 36A on a small frame 6 weeks into estrogen, and very definitely still growing, so I may still have some trouble.  (I'm counting on it.  My spouse wants me to present male at all times, especially at home.  Me, not so much.)

And that brings me to a longer term problem you might hit.  While your body shifts more toward your gender identity, your gender presentation (what others see) and gender role (your behavior and activities) won't be aligned with your identity.  You may find that among the many gender issues you have been dealing with that this misalignment may manifest as social dysphoria.  It definitely does for me.

Another thread on site is talking about a TED Talk on shame, vulnerability, and authenticity.  In listening to that talk, it occurs to me that trying to live stealth as something you aren't ties right into that.  Take a look.  It's worth a listen.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,213568.msg1891412.html

If you do decide to try living stealth, you should be aware of just why you are really doing this, and the consequences it may have for your future happiness and well-being.  Please don't take this as a criticism of your choice.  It is your choice to make as part of your transition.  I just ask that you try to be sure you are choosing the best path for yourself.

I had chosen to live stealth, but for what looks like all the wrong reasons.  Now I'm looking into a different path forward.

You're not that old Michelle, you're only early 60's - don't write yourself down, there's a toyboy or two in your future if you want it.

Yes, it's possible. I've been a living example of all that you said for the past 4 years and no one has batted an eyelash. I'm gliding through college and no one knows except for a few teachers mainly because of hospital documentation, but other than that, no one cares.

Thank you everyone for your feedback. I'm pleased to hear that it can actually be done.

My interest is progressing forward in this way stems in no way from shame of being trans, but from the fluctuating nature of myself. It seems highly likely that my hormones are a mixture of male and female naturally, so that may be a contributing factor. (Hormone test will be done soon by GIC, but everyone at my trans support group seems convinced that I could well be intersex.) I have a female bone structure, build, and height, as well as wearing make-up and having long hair. No one else in my family is built exactly like me. Being short runs in all of the family (I'm five-foot-five) but all the other male members of my family are very stocky, whereas my build is exactly like all the female members of my family (I'm around 110 pounds). Even without the hormone test, I feel like my body is female, but the trimmings have come out male, so to speak. :D (I do also have one issue around my male 'trimmings' which may also point towards an inter-sex condition, though it has no effect on functionality)

I've no problem with this and do not desire Gender reassignment, but I do suffer terrible facial dysphoria and social dysphoria regarding masculinity. So I'd like HRT to change my outward appearance to one that is passably female, so that I can be treated as female by people when I want to, but can just brush it under the carpet as just being me when I want that to. I don't know if that's making sense really. I guess I'm really a feminine leaning non-binary person, who just wants to be, without having to offer up explanations all the time. Nothing to do with any shame or fear. :)

I've been on HRT for about 7 years, am a slim 6ft 150 lbs with a B cup and live and present primarily as male. No Prob.

HRT is no magic pill to take away masculine characteristics. The biggest, I believe universal, benefit is emotional, not physical. I've been On/Off low dose HRT several times for just that emotional reset.

Testosterone is a powerful drug. Far more so then E. FTMs tend to get amazing physical results in comparison to MTFs. Estrogen cannot undo bone structure. Will undo some muscle mass. Usually does not do a lot if anything for facial hair. Pretty much nothing for your voice. These factors and more is often why there are those that push various "Must Do" lists of surgeries or other medical procedures to alter your looks.

HRT may not be magic but for some of us, the physical changes are very dramatic and that is a possibility for anyone contemplating stealth or taking a lower dose for the mental benefits.

I am amazed by my body changes, my spouse and my doctor are too.

You seem to be asking if you can prevent HRT from having too drastic an effect. I wouldn't worry about it, because you'll probably not have any compelling reason to stop: If you get good effects, you'll likely want to keep going; and if you don't, you won't need to anyway based on what you're saying now.

But if you still worry, just remember: You can simply stop any time you want.

(Or adjust your dosage, or whatever — probably should talk to your doctor, but the point is you can stop.)

So many consider "stealth" to be synonymous with being androgynous. Personally (at my stage), I consider "stealth" to be "100% female mode". Once you get far enough in transition, hiding it can become near impossible ... and I am grateful.

Yeah, it's almost the opposite of the long-accepted definition of stealth, i.e., when you have transitioned and have hidden all traces of having done so hidden, and are universally accepted in your gender identity.

What T90 is talking about is generally just called staying in the closet. Hopefully you come out eventually — and on your own terms, not by being forced out. That can be tricky, and stressful, though maintaining stealth can be as well: Any time you are hiding something, however well you are doing it and however good the reasons, you are vulnerable.

I had a period early in my transition where I was basically presenting as female among certain friends where I felt safe and male among others and at work, and holy hell it was stressful. Maybe what T90 is suggesting would be a little less stressful, but it also seems tough, not so much because of the effects of HRT, but because of the delicate balance of gender performance (in the Judith Butler sense) that it would require to pull off.

I guess...in an ideal world, I would like to transition in a similar manner to the YouTuber Casey Like Games, who I've become friendly with online. (By which I mean she's been something of a role model for me. I've included one of her videos at the bottom of this post.)

We're a similar build to start with, as I believe she also had naturally mixed hormones, but she just seems to take everything in her stride, so to speak. Prior to transition she was an androgynous boy, and now she lives as an androgynous girl...which is perhaps more obvious in her recent videos since she cut her hair short. She also seems to have no problem with being non-op either, as she often makes jokes regarding 'that' part of her anatomy.

I suppose transition is what you make of it, in that you can be as feminine or androgynous as you wish to be. Then again, that could very much depend on how drastic the effects of HRT would be on me. I do feel that a non-binary/feminine person is who I am, as I've always been of a feminine build and mind-set, and have never felt comfortable as with masculinity, but I just feel kind of stuck just now over what the best course of action is. I couldn't bear the thought of further masculinisation as I get older, but...I don't know. I guess the Gender Clinic will help me figure out the right course of action to take once I get there.

I do hope nobodies been upset by this thread. It's just me trying to wrap my head around my identity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak3G9mvdXmk

Quote from: Heather14 on August 22, 2016, 06:41:28 PM
After a while on HRT the breasts start to be a dead give away.

I'm kinda glad I waited to post on this one; as I was going to post some positive, "sure, no prob".   Course, I go to a store today to get a couple compression tops to assist in my sneakiness, but I was going to the gym afterwards so I had a lightweight tanktop on that felt unusually tight but didn't think about.    A taller guy absolute nailed it, the shape of the profile curve can be nothing else.   He didn't say or do anything, but there was distinctive hostility on his face.   I do wonder in a year or so when my neck and arms won't be so large anymore, if the hostility will remain restrained and silent...

  You young ones have that problem. I'm over 60 and go to week-long functions with my age group that uses the same shower room. I am still presenting as male but my "brothers" have larger "moobs" than I do. Not a pretty hairy sight. I don't stand out. I did get 'clocked' last week in a mall by someone selling skin care aids from a kiosk. He recognized that I had a limp and was over 60. He said "GEE! You have got a good complexion!" Where did that come from?" I told him it was probably my meds. The first time I got clocked like that! That was nice.

Joelene

After a while HRT will change the rest of your body proportions too.  So if you want to hide things, it's not just boobs you have to hide.

I think its possible to be completely stealth under MTF HRT too, but you're likely going to be read as "gay" by the rest of the world and not as a woman (at least not by majority).

Quote from: Wednesday on August 30, 2016, 08:32:33 AM
I think its possible to be completely stealth under MTF HRT too, but you're likely going to be read as "gay" by the rest of the world and not as a woman (at least not by majority).

It is funny that you bring this up.  A few weeks after starting HRT again, a sister and I were conversing about living closeted for a while before shifting to androgyny and finally getting far enough along to consider stealth living...

She said, "the worst that will happen is you get read as a very effeminate gay guy for a while".

Eventually, enough change takes place that keeping it hidden becomes more work than it is worth and letting YOU come to the forefront is the only practical solution.

Quote from: kaitylynn on August 30, 2016, 08:54:32 AMEventually, enough change takes place that keeping it hidden becomes more work than it is worth and letting YOU come to the forefront is the only practical solution.

Probably this will be what "outs" me at home if anything before I'm ready to make the grand entrance as it were.  I smile alot now, talk, laugh, and I haven't broken any appliances or doors since I started.   Eventually me being a happy person is going to weird out the people who've gotten used to living with the old, silent, angry me...   No complaints so far though!

I figure keeping the beard for a while should prevent complete boyfail. (that word cracks me up...); though its not exactly great for the modest dysphoria I'm beginning to notice..

Quote from: kaitylynn on August 30, 2016, 08:54:32 AM
Eventually, enough change takes place that keeping it hidden becomes more work than it is worth and letting YOU come to the forefront is the only practical solution.

It's right if you get optimal results from HRT, are not really masculine to begin with, or a combination, it can take lot of effort to disguise, but I think it can be done.

Anyway, nowadays coming to the forefront early usually is the best solution!

Quote from: kaitylynn on August 30, 2016, 08:54:32 AM
It is funny that you bring this up.  A few weeks after starting HRT again, a sister and I were conversing about living closeted for a while before shifting to androgyny and finally getting far enough along to consider stealth living...

She said, "the worst that will happen is you get read as a very effeminate gay guy for a while".

Eventually, enough change takes place that keeping it hidden becomes more work than it is worth and letting YOU come to the forefront is the only practical solution.

Before HRT, I was always read as the gay effeminate guy, and often mistaken for female. This is why I presented as female about as soon as my breasts started developing. I guess I was really lucky, in that there was no hiding it.