Susan's Place Transgender Resources

RLT for me as you may or may not know has been steady throughout my existance but now that I am about to venture into the unknown area of therapy for gender that is, I would like to know if anyone has a rundown on the programme for RLT?

I currently use female toilets without a hassel and just wondered if they allow you to still use these toilets once you start therapy and RLT or does the law get in the way of you doing this once you are officially seeing a shrink or until you have actually had affirmation surgery, cause I dont think I could manage going back to the mens toilets, I dont think the guys would like it either.

Sara.

Quote from: Sara on January 24, 2006, 08:25:18 PM
RLT for me as you may or may not know has been steady throughout my existance 

In another thread you posted:

QuoteThe problem I face is that when I go to the supermarket my wife will call me Sara and then the checkout person will look at my ATM card and think wait a minute you're a man

Are you saying that the name on the card is not Sara but another name?

Yes Leigh, I usually use my wife's card most times and because I am awaiting letters for affirmation to get things changed legally, I have not bothered to change any legal docs. It hasnt been a real issue, I have never been picked up for speeding, never been asked to produce ID and as I have mentioned have managed to use my wifes card for purchases but every now and then I do get caught out when I go to the supermarket and forget her card. Oh well I could either go home and get it or just use mine so I use my card, thats when I get the look. I guess I could have said it was my boyfriends card but I dont. I smile they smile and I tell them.

Sara.

Before my name change I think I was asked for ID twice when using my card. Thing is on my old DL I had a short beard. They would look at the ID and get that look. One time a lady said, "No I need your ID, not your husbands." I just smiled and said that is me. I think she turned three shades of red. So I said "I got first prize for worst drivers license photo ever taken".

Cassie

Hey there Sara,

There is no specific RLT Program well not one you can sign up for for example.  However check out the Wiki as the requirement for RLT is laid out in the  Standards of Care[/b] (https://www.susans.org/wiki/Standards_of_Care_for_Gender_Identity_Disorders).

Steph

lol Cassie, I'd love to see that look. You do win the prize for worst DL picture for sure.

Dennis

Hey Cassie

Quote"I got first prize for worst drivers license photo ever taken".

You never fail to bring a smile to my face. I envy your partner living with you must be a hoot.

Shelley

Oh, and Sara. I think during RLT you are supposed to use the bathrooms of your target gender, not your birth gender. So you would continue to use women's rooms. Otherwise, it wouldn't be much of a test of what it's like for you to live as a woman if you were using men's rooms.

Dennis

Having the correct identification certainly helps also.

I can't imagine RLT being very real without documentation.

Leigh, how true you are. Not that I have ever been asked for ID in the girls toilet!

I just wondered what changes legally as many countries have different rules and regulationas and not having the letter from my Doctors yet I suppose would create a real problem if I were to be asked for ID in the toilet.

So that is the real question do the therapists have a legal plan that they follow in RLT, I know that they expect you to dress full time etc but what if for example someone was at the beginning of their transition and didnt quit look the part, is the letter from the therapist going to be enough to allow you to enter the female toilets cause this could be a bit of a problem with the law in Australia. I know if I see a guy in the toilet lurking around I would run for cover.

Sara.

Its not the bathroom that counts.  Its the rest of the real world. 

I don't know what requirements OZ has to change all the ID but I don't see where anyone no matter where they live, could fulfill the RLT requirements if when they applied for a job, they have to show the wrong gendered identification.

There is no RLT if there is no test.

True Leigh, it is the world test. When I used to work I never really had any problems as they knew I was presenting myself as female but had male ID and now that I do not work and look after my wife I suppose that will be the tough one for the therapist cause my daily routine evolves around caring for a disabled person, going to the shops to buy food and get new cloths, occassionally going out for tea but in general my life is pretty boring compared to girls in the City and younger I guess and because I have been this way for many years, my RLT has already been completed except for the legal documents and the surgery. As for a plan - I would like to have electrolysis but my hairs are very fine and dont grow out for many weeks or even months sometimes. Already on hormones so that gets the tick off the plan. I could do some more in the way of my voice but havent had any bad comments so far and surgery is going to happen once they can find out if I have thrombosis or not. If I do then that could disrupt things a little. Am I missing something here, oh dressing, well I already do that and have done so for many years.

The thing that I dislike about the RLT is that there are some girls just starting out and some still have a very masculine look and then they get thrown out in the world to be a girl and lets face it, the world can be very ugly. It is humiliating for girls who are just starting out and that is supposed to be the RLT. Therapy as I see it should ease you into the roll not throw you head first into the fires from hell. So how was it dressed as a female in public looking not so the way you would like the public to see you well Dr. you tell me ( go out there and do it yourself) then we'll talk.

Sara.

 

QuoteTherapy as I see it should ease you into the roll not throw you head first into the fires from hell.

"if you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen" could apply here.  Therapy in and of itsself does not require anyone to commence RLT.  Only after therapy if both-therapist and client-are sure that it is the only viable route then yes RLT can be done.  It however, does not have to be started on day one.  Do the electro, FFS if you have the $$$ and its your thing, start on the paperwork to that its finalization coincides with a date that has been set to begin.  You have to start before you can get to the finish line.

Quote
The thing that I dislike about the RLT is that there are some girls just starting out and some still have a very masculine look and then they get thrown out in the world to be a girl and lets face it, the world can be very ugly.

So what are they do do if they do not present a female, not tranistion?    It mean and its cruel but if they can't survive RLT, before surgery, how are they going to survive when there is no going back physically afterwards?  RLT also helps to weed out those who are living in a fantasy world of "oh look at me I'm a woman"  hopefully before any dramatic changes have been made.

I wonder what the suicide rate would be if surgery was upon demand?

Thank you Leigh and Melissa for pointing that out, I didnt realize you could make a plan when to actually start RLT. Preperation is the key for sure. I wonder what will happen when I go to therapy asking for my op dressed in a skirt and with makeup on and having lived as a female for nearly all my life and if that will be more of a backstep for me rather than going in dressed in jeans and a tshirt with no makeup and trying to remember to talk differently. I am a bit hesitant as maybe the therapist might take me the wrong way and not grant me the right to have surgery?


Sara.

What I would do in your place might not be the best thing to do but I'd dress normally and make sure to explain things very clearly in an attempt to leave no doubt.

Quote from: Sara on January 26, 2006, 01:14:33 AM
I wonder what will happen when I go to therapy asking for my op dressed in a skirt and with makeup on and having lived as a female for nearly all my life and if that will be more of a backstep for me rather than going in dressed in jeans and a tshirt with no makeup and trying to remember to talk differently. I am a bit hesitant as maybe the therapist might take me the wrong way and not grant me the right to have surgery?

You are going to seek letters of recommendation based on your suitability for surgery.  If you are convinced you have a decent therapist, then you should be presenting the way you do in real life in terms of voice, dress, and mannerism.  Be yourself.  If the therapist says you're not ready for surgery, you can look for a second opinion, but you should also ask yourself if you are indeed ready.  The issues about having to present female when one looks masculine yet are often a fact of life.  I didn't like it but I did it because I had to.  As Leigh pointed out, some of this may seem cruel but transition isn't for the faint of heart and shouldn't be undertaken lightly.

Dawn

Dawn, I just dont want the therapist to say oh well you have been living that way for years without surgery so why now all of a sudden and then not grant me the surgery.

I have a fear of the worst case rather than taking it as it comes, that is why I am so depressed.


Sara.

Quote from: Sara on January 26, 2006, 04:41:59 PM
Dawn, I just dont want the therapist to say oh well you have been living that way for years without surgery so why now all of a sudden and then not grant me the surgery.

If a therapist says this to you, I would run quickly away and find a new therapist unless they can give you a compelling reason why you shouldn't have surgery.  Even then, you can get another opinion.  They certainly may ask you to justify your sudden interest in surgery however.

Dawn

Quote from: Sara on January 26, 2006, 04:41:59 PM
Dawn, I just dont want the therapist to say oh well you have been living that way for years without surgery so why now all of a sudden and then not grant me the surgery.

I have a fear of the worst case rather than taking it as it comes, that is why I am so depressed.
Sara.

Just to add my comments to this post - I may be wrong and if so I hope that those who are post-op will correct me, however, therapists do not "Grant" you the surgery, at best they would write letters stating the care they have provided and that you are a good candidate for surgery or that they recommend surgery.  It is the Surgeons who "Grant" the surgery after they are sure that you meets the criteria they subscribe to and enough gold has exchanged hands.

Steph

Quote from: Stephanie Craxford on January 26, 2006, 06:42:43 PM
Just to add my comments to this post - I may be wrong and if so I hope that those who are post-op will correct me, however, therapists do not "Grant" you the surgery, at best they would write letters stating the care they have provided and that you are a good candidate for surgery or that they recommend surgery.  It is the Surgeons who "Grant" the surgery after they are sure that you meets the criteria they subscribe to and enough gold has exchanged hands.

Steph, you are quite right.  The surgeon has the final word. 

Dawn

Yes, the surgeon does have the final word but-and its a big but---without a letter or letters its doubtful that any reputable Dr. would do the surgery.

Its pass the scapel time.  Without letters the responsibility falls entirely on the Dr's shoulders if later its "oh not I was wrong--I am maimed for life--give me money" he gets hit with malpractice.  Besides, a surgeon is not  knowlegable in mental health-they are slice and dice people.  Its the therapist who is supposed to delve into you mental state and magically know if you are a suitable canidate or not.

I am sure that many have been denied letters that should have been written and I know for a fact that letters have been given to some who were totally out to lunch.  Which any reasonable amount of reasearch  getting through therapy is a snap.  Parrot the lines, know the key words and reactions and you are on your way.  I know one person who was employed that never spent one day at work in transition yet got a letter.  Why? Cause the therapist never checked.  Talked a good story and got her letter-went on vaca-came back and then told her employer--wanna guess what the result was?  The end of the unemployment line starts over there >>> DA.

If you need surgery more than anything else you gotta do what it takes. 

I am getting a bit out of every post and it is reassuring to hear from people who have been there done that.

There lay the real problem when you get the letter that says you are a good candidate for the surgery it is finding someone who will agree to perform the surgery. We are very limited in Australia, there are probably three Doctors who perform GRS/SRS (not sure about BO) and they are all in Capital Cities (Melbourne/Sydney) Dont think Adelaide has any.

Sara.

You are how many hours from Thailand?  Maybe 5 I would guess.

Yep never thought of that. NZ is another place I could try except the package that they supply costs $30,000.00 AUD. This includes pre and post Therapy and Surgery and all doctors fees and medical costs. It doesnt say on their web page if they do Stage 1 Stage 2 type of Surgery (ie) BO then have a wait and then Do the Vaginoplasty later due to money restrictions.

Sara.

8700 Australian Dollars for a good surgeon in Thailand-double that for Suporn

Wow Leigh that is a lot cheaper. I'll look into that, thank you.

Had a talk with my GP today and he agrees that I am on the right path, we discussed the issue of being TG and that I had trauma as a child and really havent seen myself as male and he said it could be worse. He seems to think that I have been suffering from panic attacks due to being off the meds and has written to my therapist to express his thoughts on the matter and that he agrees with me that I should have surgery and return to full hormonal treatment asap. He did say one thing that was a little puzzling, he said I was in a grey area, as he put it you are definately not a male but not quit a female, kinda like Lief Garret (if thats how you spell it). I never knew he was a TG, is he trying to be funny or what?

Sara.

I'd just like to chime in here on the RLT side. For me it was not a matter of any requirement to live full time. It just became unbearable for me not to. This is who I am. I don't want to, and I won't, live any other way.

I have not regretted a single day since I came out and started living full time. Each day is a joy to me even the bad days. It has not been all peaches and cream either. I have had no surgeries, I haven't even started with electrolisis yet. I am planning on doing all these things, but all in due time. I work on my voice, and mannerisms have not been a problem. Many typically female mannerisms I disscovered I had been doing all my life. I never really noticed them until I started studying them. 

I am fotunate in that I have never been overly masculine looking and pass tolerably well. Main thing is even to those who do read me I really don't care. Not careing goes a long way. People tend not to question when you present yourself in a manner that exudes confidence in who and what you are.

I have been treated with respect and as a lady with all but a very few people. There have been a few incidents in which what it means to be a woman in society has reared its ugly head. I kind of check them off in my mind as new battles which will have to be fought. At least I know once I have completed transition there will be plenty more new battles to occupy my time.

I have no doubt of obtaining my letters. I already have a Psycologist who is prepared to give me the letters. I'm in no hurry on that as I still have to put the funds together for the Op and I want to give the hormones plenty of time to do as much as they can before going under the knife. The FFS I have decided is a definite as I would like to look a little younger and I'm thinking I might want to do that first.

Okay rambled on a little there. My point being, I'm living full time and have done nothing other than cosmetics dress and voice, which  is more androgyness than truly feminine. You don't wait to get surgery to live full time and you shouldn't live full time just to get the surgery. You should live full time because that's who you are.

As has been the subject of many topics here what defines a woman in varies from person to person. You need to live full time to discover what kind of woman you are. When you first accepted that you are a woman in a male body you only knew that you were a woman but you really did'nt know what kind of a woman you are. That is one of the things you need to uncover both in therapy and by living full time. One size does not fit all and you need to figure out what fits you. You can't do this by waiting to start living full time, you just have to do it.

Personally I can't see anyone getting to the point of surgery without RLT. It is putting the cart before the horse. If you are going to do this do it right. Go out, go shopping get a makeover whatever but start living as yourself. If you can't bring yourself to do that then you need to stop right now and examine yourself and ask if this is really who you are.

Good Journey,

Cassie

Cassandra, my that was a long post and all good points. I do get upset sometimes especially because I have been off my meds for about 3 months and my hair has started to grow back on my face a little and that it when I get strange looks. Today I wrote a letter to Australia Post for Sexual Discrimination against me (my wifes ID was not enough this time) they started to smirk and be so unkind to me because of who they think I am. The man raised his voice so loud in front of about three other customers that I felt so embarrassed.

Yes we all face some kind of humility out in the world and things wont get any better from the worlds point of view even after RLT and surgery but as you said we have to start living as ourselves. Be true to yourself, question why and then if the answer is yes I am and yes I do then go forward be strong and get what is rightfuly yours.

Sara.

QuoteBe true to yourself, question why and then if the answer is yes I am and yes I do then go forward be strong and get what is rightfuly yours.

That's the spirit Sara.

QuoteThe man raised his voice so loud in front of about three other customers that I felt so embarrassed.

Jerks are everywhere. Don't let yourself be embarrased.  I know its not easy but you just have to roll with it. Like the deodorant commercial say's "never let em see you sweat". Just turn it back on them. I would've said in a little louder voice. Are you deaf? He would have said no. Then at the same volumn, "Then why are you talking so loud, I'm standing right in front of you?" Then see who gets embarrassed. Another thing to remember is he just works for the store. You are the profit he is the overhead.

Cassie

Cassandra, Never thought of it like that. He did make his female staff feel a little uncomfortable as he was shouting and I thought what a jerk you egotystical male. I went home stewed over it for about a minute and thought no way is this jerk going to get me so upset. Normally I would not have done anything about it but because my hormones are playing up I wrote the letter.

Sara.

Quote from: Sara on January 27, 2006, 12:01:55 AM
Had a talk with my GP today and he agrees that I am on the right path, we discussed the issue of being TG and that I had trauma as a child and really havent seen myself as male and he said it could be worse...He did say one thing that was a little puzzling, he said I was in a grey area, as he put it you are definately not a male but not quit a female, kinda like Lief Garret (if thats how you spell it). I never knew he was a TG, is he trying to be funny or what?

This is very controversial, the idea that a childhood trauma leads to gender dysphoria.  Not seeing yourself as male doesn't make you female either.  I am interested in his basis for saying this.  I had a therapist who said the same thing to me but none of the others I consulted agreed with that assessment.  If you are interested, you can pursue this further here or contact me off-list.  I'm not saying it's true or isn't, just that I've seen very little support for this idea.

Dawn

'Childhood trauma'

Hum.

Preschool/elementary age I recall two instances of being disrobed against my will when I was younger... for some reason the kids had a fascination to see my underwear. Once I can call a fluke, twice? ^*shrug* I changed my way of doing things after that.

Does that make me a girl? No.

Does it make me an insecure guy? No.

It does, however, affect my level of trust in people, but so do a number of other things.

Anyway as near as I can tell, for me, what passes for my 'childhood trauma' has had no bearing on my self definition other than it has contributed to my general distrust of people I do not know well.


As far as the "you are definately not a male but not quit a female" comment I have to wonder if it qualifies as a test, as a way to give you a 'professional opinion' way out of a perceived necessary course of action. Regardless, I think he got the "definitely not male" part right at least

Quote from: Kimberly on January 27, 2006, 03:31:04 AM
As far as the "you are definately not a male but not quit a female" comment I have to wonder if it qualifies as a test, as a way to give you a 'professional opinion' way out of a perceived necessary course of action. Regardless, I think he got the "definitely not male" part right at least

This is essentially Kate Bornstein's description of herself and one that many transsexuals dislike since it essentially puts her and others like her outside the gender binary.

Dawn

Quotechildhood trauma leads to gender dysphoria

They sure got that bass-ackwards!!!! It SHOULD have been

Quotegender dysphoria leads to childhood trauma 

My childhood would have been a hellofa lot better if I had been physically female. It was the damned physical deformity that nearly killed me.

"childhood trauma leads to gender dysphoria" indeed!

Gotta agree with all of it really cause sometimes in trauma we could go either way but for me even before I had that thing happen I knew then I was different (female), all the trauma did was make me become more confused as to who I was as a person. I thought I was doing something wrong. There was a study that showed that something like 86% of males and  females that had childhood trauma due to sexual abuse had some form of gender identity problems. It doesnt say that they wanted to be female or male just cause they were effected by this trauma only that it makes the person/s more confused as to their real identity.

For me it has been clear from day one who I really was, I just could not accept it and still battle each day trying to understand the why but as you all know there are alot of us out there like that.

Could I go on living like a male, well infact no. I have suffered because of my hiding my inner feelings and although I have always dressed up on the outside the inside is still struggling and that is probably why I suffered the panic attacks from being off the hormones as I did not want to be male on the surface or inside. Severely depressed thinking I was going to die has caused me to re evaluate the situation and crying every night is not good and it has been hard explaining or at least hard trying to explain to people my feelings and why I feel this way and I shouldnt expect them to understand BUT I DO.

I never asked to be this screwed up but I am doing something about it and if it means I get to live longer because of it as the person I see myself as then so be it.


Sara.