Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi
New to the site and very excited to have had my first doctors visit a week ago. He prescribed <dosages not allowed>of Spiro daily (<dosages not allowed> morning and night). My T level was 162.
Can anyone advise what effects I may expect in the next three months before my next doctors visit? Thanks x


Moderartors Edit: Sorry, Susan's does not allow the posting of dosages.

It is on the little sheet the pharmacist gives you with each of your meds.   Lots of usable google keywords to harvest there.

Put simply, it is a potassium sparing diuretic.   What that means is you pee a lot, but your kidneys will avoid passing as much potassium from your blood to the urine as would naturally occur.       It is also an anti-androgen and will decrease T over time by an amount unique to each individual; you'll know when you get your next blood test, or you might know it may have dropped below fem-normal when you no longer have spontaneous/morning erections.

The only serious, active trick to me seems to be being mindful of potassium and sodium in your diet, vs sweat, vs urine excretion.    What will work for me, won't work for you, etc, unless we have the same exercise and hydration patterns.

A sign to watch for would be cramping, which occurs easily when the two get out of proportion.  If you start to cramp don't drink gatorade, tomato juice, v8, or blood orange (which have substantial potassium), drink plain water and eat a little something salty and easily soluble.

If you feel faint, dizzy, or grey out when you stand, you just need more water mostly and a tiny bit of food.   My BP dropped to 90/50 standing up, when I was out working earlier this summer in the heat.  Blackout, face plant, chew dirt, very amusing for bystanders.     drink plenty if you are exercising.

Tammy,

Welcome to the site.

Looks like the comments are off to a good start.

I had to remove your dosages as that is against the Terms of Service set up for all members of this site. Mostly legal issues and it may lead some to self medicate. Self medicating is a, potentially,  very dangerous activity. I am including some links that we try to get to all newly posting members. Among them are the rules of the site.

I hope you find all the support you are looking for here. We have members from all over the world, the age range and the gender spectrum(not to mention points of view). So there are a lot of opportunities to get support and have some fun.

Here are those links.  They are mostly welcome information and the rules that govern the site. If you have not had a chance to look through them, please take a moment:

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Reputation rules (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,18960.0.html)	News posting & quoting guidelines (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,174951.0.html)	Photo, avatars, & signature images policy (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,59974.msg383866.html#msg383866)

Once again, welcome to Susan's. Look around, ask questions and join in.

With warmth,

Joanna

Thanks for the feedback. I had heard about the potassium/sodium issue and will be careful. I exercise regularly but, fortunately, have always relied on water/milk than sports drinks.

My main goal is reduction of my T to female levels and to lose the whole erection problem ;)

I am totally ready to start E in my mind but have family and work details to sort out first so am only starting with Spiro for now.  I have been on it for a week and haven't had excessive bathroom visits but do feel pretty tired.  I'm really wondering what to expect, if anything, regarding fat distribution or breast growth. I know we're all different and I'm not sure about the former but I have read that Spiro alone can cause breast growth and am interested in the experiences of others and a the chances of this happening.

Tammy

@ Joanna, sorry for the dosage info x

Tammy,

No worries. That's part of what we mods are here for.

I too have read about some of what you describe when on spiro. I think it is less often. You might get a little secondary characteristics but only if there is already enough estrogen in your body that by reducing the T, the E takes over. As with all of these things, everyone's miles vary.

I think you can also anticipate that over a long period of time, body hair will thin, lighten (in some cases so much that people claim it is gone).

I am on spiro as well. However my endo started me on both spiro and estradiol. I noticed smoother skin almost immediately. Clearer mind, happier but with the ability to be more in touch with my feelings and communicate them. I started some redistribution a little over a month to two months in. My experience, was starting on both, so it is hard to nail down which took the lead on what.

Not sure if that helped at all.

With warmth,

Joanna

Thanks for your input, Joanna! It really does help :)

I guess part of me is hoping that the Spiro starts some sort of development so I can start dealing with it and look to start E.

Your body naturally produces some E and of course T.  The T is what keeps what little E you have in your system from feminizing you.  On Spiro alone you will slowly ( and I mean slowly) feminize to a more androgenous state.  Spiro has it's own side effects...  Your mileage may vary...  but expect to get a little run down with the lack of T and your going to get very dehydrated from all of the bathroom trips.  Also ensure you make a list of the "high potassium" foods on google...  I am going to tell you that Potatoes and Vegetables are loaded with Potassium...  so you'll want to check that out.  Fully expect your mood to kind of go to poo a little bit without a sex hormone...  (which I could never figure out why they would block T and not give you E).  Think Menopause...  Hope it helps!

Thanks Harley
It's more my choice at the moment just to be on the Spiro and not E too, both my therapist and Dr. are ok with me starting E as well. I just have some issues to work with before I can start that part of my journey.
Nonetheless I'm hoping for some mild feminizing effects, body hair lightening etc. I also experienced some increased patience, more relaxed attitude when I took some internet purchased Androcur previously so am hoping for the same here too.

OK, the Estrogen train has just left the station for me. Started on E Thursday when I finally got my meds in the mail. My doctor has also prescribed Spiro for me, and they just arrived. With reading all of these postings about the negative effects of Spiro I am really wondering if I want to start taking it. My potassium level is toward the high side of normal with the blood work that was done. I exercise five days a week with a power walk every morning, 3 miles with two hills during the course of the walk and usually do it in 40 minutes. Exercise also includes two sets of 35 push ups and two sets of 50 sit ups so I think I have that as a positive. My E is low dosage starting out. After waiting all of my life for this I want to do this right but I also do not want to do something that will effect how I go about my daily life or far that matter my long term health. I am not going to mention the dosage of spiro as I know that is off limits but looking at various charts it is on the low end of what I have found. Thoughts? Thanks in advance.

Just be sure to eat enough salt, drink enough water and not consume too many diuretics like coffee/tea, etc. Avoid very high potassium stuff. Your doctor should have already given you this advice but just in case...

Quote from: KayXo on September 03, 2016, 09:14:58 AM
Just be sure to eat enough salt, drink enough water and not consume too many diuretics like coffee/tea, etc. Avoid very high potassium stuff. Your doctor should have already given you this advice but just in case...

what KayXo said!


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I have a pretty high dose of spiro and my potassium is normal.  My sodium is a little low.

You should be ok if you watch your diet a little.

It will definitely make you pee a lot as has been noted. So drink a ton of water. If you've had high blood pressure, it will probably drop that to some degree. If you've been worried about sodium in your diet, you can drop that concern to a certain degree. One thing, without E added, you've blocked your T and your body needs some form of hormones...be it T or E. So you may just find yourself being quite irritable and perhaps even having night sweats and finding yourself unable to sleep. If this happens, it's time to speak to your endo. Without a form of hormones, you could end up with osteoporosis or blood lipid issues. Keep an eye on things..and good luck!

Hi all

Still just on the spiro alone and five weeks in I've really started to suffer with sensitive nipples.  The pain feels just like a bruise when they are touched but there is no swelling.

Can anyone advise if this is just a common side effect or if it could be the start of something like gynecomastia? 

TIA x

Hi Tammy,

That's a common side effect. I am of the school who started E and Spiro at the same time, so I can't speak to what effects are due to what, but spiro is know to cause breast growth, tenderness, and with that, aches and pains.

Hang in there  :P

Thanks AoifeJ!
So you think that the sensitivity is likely to be followed by some breast growth?
Appreciate the benefit of your experience x

Again, it's hard to say because I don't have any experience taking spiro by itself, but rather in tandem with E. However, I think if you're having some consistent pain and sensitivity it does mean that some growth is taking place, but I don't think it will be quite the growth you're after without Estradiol. The nipple may get puffy, sensitive, larger, and before any growth takes place a lump will start to form underneath the nipple and grow for a long period of time, it may poke out a little more, but not like a full rounded breast. I also expect it would probably happen very slowly without E in your system. Lastly, it's normal for one side to start developing the bump/nodule first, and grow faster and larger than the other one, so you may notice that happen too, which is pretty standard.

So far I've had the pain for about a week.  It's on both sides and feels just like bruising. I've also perceived some change in the size of my nipples but didn't know if I was imagining it.  So far I've not had any lumps or swelling but will look out for that too.

One of the reasons I've delayed taking E is that I wasn't quite ready for breast growth. I mean I'm totally ready in my head, just have some things to sort out before moving forward in a public way. I didn't realize that this may happen with spiro alone and it hasn't taken long to start. I guess I should be glad it's the end of pool season...

Thanks again for your input x

The levels estradiol levels for a male and a woman in menopause are the same 10-60 pg/ml. I am currently at 50 with the same signs of breast development. It's entirely possible that you estradiol levels are high enough to cause breast development when it isn't flooded with testosterone plugging up the receptors.

I haven't had those levels taken, only testosterone levels, so really don't know.  I am a bit surprised if this pain really is the start of growth as I wasn't expecting to have breast growth while just on spiro. I must admit it's exciting though!

Tammy, I'm not sure any of us can ever be totally ready.. can research and think about it and visualize forever but to actually have it happen and feel it is such a "Holy crap  :o" feeling, for sure. Just remember that at the point you're at if things start to freak you out or feel uncomfortable you can still stop for a while and that's 1000% okay too. Good luck with everything :)

You're completely right. It feels like I've played every scenario out a million times, maybe a little growth from the spiro will help me make the transition to start E too. Thanks for your advice, I really appreciate it! xxx

Hi Tammy it's Shannon.  Good luck and enjoy this journey.  Breast and nipple development and changes are coming....

Hi Shannon
Another day with lots of sensitivity but no lumps or swelling yet! :)
Is it not possible that on just spiro this sensitivity is all that will happen or will breast growth be inevitable?
Tammy x

You might not get much growth. However, it is probably the start of the breast buds. Typically that will make the nipples grow and a spot right behind them may get  hard. It is the first step in getting the milk glands going. That occurs before any real growth.

However, it is different in each person's chemistry( the speed and extent that ones body reacts to hormones).

Hope you are good with these changes.

With warmth,

Joanna

Thanks Joanna

That's exciting to hear.  Kind of scary, but I'm coming to terms with who I am and stopping the spiro would be a definite step backwards and is not going to happen! x

Tammy. I agree with Joanna.  Things are starting to happen for you given the sensitivity of your breasts.  Exciting times!  Hugs Shannon

My breasts grew on E.  I loved the sensitivity too.  My breasts were tender and sore for weeks.

Another day and still just sensitivity but it sounds like this is really going to happen! Is there any timeline for what I should expect? I'm 150 pounds and have little there at the moment so presume even the hard lumps would be visible? x

Tammy,
I am in the same position as you. I have been on a starting dose of Spiro only for 2 1/5 months now. I have felt a little run down but have been sleeping great. My breast are also very sore under the areola and there has formed a small mass under, that I think is the breast bud. I'm very skinny 5'8" 135lbs. When I hold my arm above my head I can see a little booby. Very exciting. Just enough to knonw it's there but it doesn't show in clothing. I also think my arm hair is thinning a little, but that could be wishful thinking. Feel free to private message me and we can keep each other informed on our progress.

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Also, I hope your doctor put you on finasteride also. Otherwise, your DHT will shoot through the roof with all the free T available to convert. And you don't want lots of T's stronger brother in your system.

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Hi Rachel
It's great to hear your experience too! No, my doctor only put me on Spiro. I thought this alone would suppress DHT. Is that not the case?

Quote from: Tammy on September 28, 2016, 07:34:13 AM
I'm 150 pounds and have little there at the moment so presume even the hard lumps would be visible? x

I have been sensitive on and off for about 6-7 months. It seems to cycle a little. That is typical to the menstral cycle in AFAB.  I find it interesting because my dosage is not cycled. You won't really see breast buds(unless you do as rachel.i. describes-raising arms over head)

Good luck

With warmth,

Joanna

So it sounds that without E the most likely effect just with spiro will be breast buds which won't be too visible? So trips to the pool etc. should still be possible?

Lots of pain for no gain... 😆 x

From my understanding and I'm not a doctor, sprio blocks androgen receptors  which causes an excess of free T. Your body will turn free T into estrogen & DHT. But it doesn't block 100% of the receptors. But there is also a time scale involved. As you body detects a lot of free T it will decrease production. This is why your balls will srink in size. But on Sprio your body will continue to produce some T. The way I see it is if the T is not turned into DHT then that's more that can turn into estrogen, which isn't blocked.

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Spiro blocks and reduces androgen levels (T and DHT). Also increases the rate of destruction of androgens and slightly increases E. Androgens strongly inhibit breast growth so just inhibiting them might produce breast growth.

Quote from: becky.rw on September 02, 2016, 08:32:19 AM

If you feel faint, dizzy, or grey out when you stand, you just need more water mostly and a tiny bit of food.   My BP dropped to 90/50 standing up, when I was out working earlier this summer in the heat.  Blackout, face plant, chew dirt, very amusing for bystanders.     drink plenty if you are exercising.

Boy oh boy, been there done that as recently as Saturday evening. Got a giant bruise on my back by the knobs on the dresser.

Quote from: KayXo on September 28, 2016, 03:54:18 PM
Spiro blocks and reduces androgen levels (T and DHT). Also increases the rate of destruction of androgens and slightly increases E. Androgens strongly inhibit breast growth so just inhibiting them might produce breast growth.

Thanks, KayXo! Great to know that my levels of T and DHT should be reducing, that's the most important thing for me at this time! 😊 x

So excited! After continual sensitivity I woke up today to find lumps behind both nipples. They feel about the size of blueberries but are not really visible at the moment.

Is this the start of breast growth?!?!?! x

Tammy, yes, assuming you aren't exaggerating :P

Well; they may be more pea sized, kind of hard to be too specific but they're there...

After 2 months mine are about as big as my areola.it's making my nipple puff out above the rest of my chest.

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Tammy. Yeah girl so exciting huh.  Hugs Shannon

So, as an update, my right side hs remained the same, just a small pea sized lump behind the nipple which is sore but not too noticeable. One the left, however, I have a huge lump that is flattish and about the circumference of a quarter and I've got a real rounding of the breast. Is this much normal on just Spiro? Also this level of asymmetry?

Have my next endo appointment the week of thanksgiving. Any advice as to what questions I need to be asking?

Thanks for any advice. Love Tammy x

The growth can be ridiculously asymmetric in the short term.  I went throgh about 6 weeks of the right side being constantly sore and growing, and was worried about being lopsided.  Then the left side kicked into gear, and now THAT side is bigger than the right side.

I wouldn't worry about it too much.  I have a feeling that over time it will more or less average out.  Note that ciswomen are usually not perfectly balanced either, but close enough is good enough for me.  :)