Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Disclaimer: I apologize if this belongs in a different forum! D:

As part of my final steps toward coming out publicly on September 18th, I have one last friend who I am going to tell I am a transgender woman to. Perhaps I should rephrase that... This friend sorta already knows. About 10 months ago, I told this person that I was pretty sure I was, and that I'd be changing in appearance around him, but that I'd still be the same old person. That person, who has strong muslim religious beliefs, said that he'd have to be honest with me; that it would probably be crossing the line. He heavily implied I was simply fantasizing about it, and that I should not act on it, and then said he believe it was a result of me talking to another trans friend of mine (a trans woman) who he referred to as "he." He ended by saying "Don't worry, your secret is safe with me, and this won't come up again." I promised him I would not bring it up to him again.

Now, here we are. I am most definitely sure about my transition, and am 9 months HRT. I have been hanging with that friend a couple days a month (Always in a group of one or three other friends mind you) and surely he has noticed me changing. However, when I am out with a group that includes him, I never mention it, never say anything about it. I completely acted as if it didn't exist, and disguised myself as male, until about this month where I am starting to look very androgynous. My other friends know, and accept it, and now he is the last one to officially tell. He hasn't heard me mention it since that day 10 months ago, but he has probably noticed me changing, and now it's time to officially tell him what he may already know. I'm going to text him Monday, with a long message about how this is real now, and that even though he asked I not bring it up again, it has to be. Cause I am going to look like a girl around my friends, and present as one, and they need to know that before it hits them in the face. I'm going to justify my waiting so long with the fact that he was so against it, and that he didn't want it to come up again.

I'm worried. I absolutely don't expect a kind answer (And the ramifications that will help on my other friends is a whole other friggin ball game) but moreso, I am worried about how his response will make him feel. I can be easily influenced, and I very often feel guilty about everything. And I am positive he will be very angry about the way I handled it, saying I shouldn't have lied to him, or that he feels betrayed, or any of that stuff. I guess my question is... Should I? Given all that you know about how he initially reacted ( and that is almost word for word) did I make a mistake here by doing things like never bringing it up, having my other friends talk about it when he is not around with me, making new accounts on social media and stuff, so I could present as the real me, and making sure he couldn't find them... Should I feel guilty? Brutal honestly? I am scared about what's going to happen. :/

He told you not to bring it up (if I read that right) so you didn't bring that up. He's obviously not a close friend, just a casual acquaintance, and he clearly doesn't want to be more than that because he doesn't accept you for who you are. I don't see why you're betraying him by leaving the subject alone. I'm not sure confronting him now makes any sense. If everyone else in the group accepts you and you only see him in the group, social pressure should keep him from acting out too much. Why make it one on one and invite him to tell you what he "really thinks"? You deserve better than to mainline bigotry into your bloodstream just because. If he's going to act out, let him do it in front of others and suffer the consequences. One day a long time from now he may in fact realize he was wrong, but no need for you to suffer needlessly now.

If he is truly your friend he will accept you for who you are. He has strong religious beliefs as I suspect that has influenced his attitude toward trans. You need to be who you are and he needs to be who he is. Both of you deserve to be yourselves. Life is like a book, many chapters, many characters. You get to write who is in the chapters of your book.

Just because someone is Muslim does not mean they will not accept you. It depends on their beliefs and what they have been taught and believe.

Ignoring and not mentioning what you said does not mean it was not said. Part of being a trans woman is developing agency. When you text him explain who you are and be proud, hold you head up and say I am ....

What he does with the information is not in your control. Nor are you responsible for how the other person responds.

You are a beautiful person and deserve to be treated as such.   

If you are uncomfortable about telling him, I see nothing wrong with not telling him.  He was clearly uncomfortable about the subject before, and you did promise him not to talk about it again.  I see nothing wrong with keeping that promise.  It's not like it is going to be a secret for much longer.

On the other hand, if you feel it is necessary for your own integrity to tell him, be ready for an angry reaction.  Plan the location so that you are in a safe place.

If you've mutually acknowledged that he's not comfortable, then I wouldn't make it a coming out conversation per se, rather you may want to find out if he's comfortable continuing to be friends and that knowing he has opinions on it, you feel the need to inform him.

From what you said, this may be someone who indeed can't accept you as a transitioning woman and so letting him know in terms of seeing if you can still be friends would seem to be the most respectful way to go.

I've had a few surprises along the way of coming out and the most recent has been from the most judgemental and prickly person I know and sometimes work with in blowing glass. Since coming out to her she's not only been more friendly, she's completely opened up about stuff in her life, acknowledged she can be a real b**** and related the parental abuse she grew up with.

The real shock was Friday we had coffee, my GF joined and my friend began a conversation about what it's like being hit on as an Asian woman in a way that made it clear she now considers me 'one of the girls', not the sort of things women would often discuss around men.

Anyhow @redheadwhovian, I hope all your coming out conversations go well yet it seems likely this one could reject you and I'd be sure to have the conversation in a safe place as well as evaluate whether this might be someone better kept in a "don't ask, don't tell" category. I'm sorry to stereotype but I've seen many instances of people from other cultures get violent / misogynist in ways that surprised me. It's not that the different culture is bad so much as could make it hard to understand or predict responses.

Quote from: AnxietyDisord3r on September 04, 2016, 06:30:52 AM
He told you not to bring it up (if I read that right) so you didn't bring that up. He's obviously not a close friend, just a casual acquaintance, and he clearly doesn't want to be more than that because he doesn't accept you for who you are. I don't see why you're betraying him by leaving the subject alone. I'm not sure confronting him now makes any sense. If everyone else in the group accepts you and you only see him in the group, social pressure should keep him from acting out too much. Why make it one on one and invite him to tell you what he "really thinks"? You deserve better than to mainline bigotry into your bloodstream just because. If he's going to act out, let him do it in front of others and suffer the consequences. One day a long time from now he may in fact realize he was wrong, but no need for you to suffer needlessly now.

People have a tendency these days to equate almost everyone they know with "Friend". I don't know for sure but I suspect FB is just a reflection of the trend started a decade or two ago.

A friend is someone you can say and probably do almost anything to, and still be a friend. This concept does not immediately imply an automatic reciprocation. No two people always feel the same about the other

It's also extremely likely that he knows and is completely aware. He said he didn't want to talk about it, but it doesn't mean that he is blind. And you promised not to talk either, so he isn't expecting you to.
Do things like pronouns never get used around you or something? Does the topic never come up around the people you are out to?

Quote from: AnxietyDisord3r on September 04, 2016, 06:30:52 AM
He told you not to bring it up (if I read that right) so you didn't bring that up. He's obviously not a close friend, just a casual acquaintance, and he clearly doesn't want to be more than that because he doesn't accept you for who you are. I don't see why you're betraying him by leaving the subject alone. I'm not sure confronting him now makes any sense. If everyone else in the group accepts you and you only see him in the group, social pressure should keep him from acting out too much. Why make it one on one and invite him to tell you what he "really thinks"? You deserve better than to mainline bigotry into your bloodstream just because. If he's going to act out, let him do it in front of others and suffer the consequences. One day a long time from now he may in fact realize he was wrong, but no need for you to suffer needlessly now.

Oh wow... I never really considered the possibility of not bringing it up... I guess because the alternative would be more explosive, and dramatic, I kind of wanted to get it done behind the scenes? I don't know... Maybe you're right. D:

Quote from: Rachel Lynn on September 04, 2016, 06:54:12 AM
If he is truly your friend he will accept you for who you are. He has strong religious beliefs as I suspect that has influenced his attitude toward trans. You need to be who you are and he needs to be who he is. Both of you deserve to be yourselves. Life is like a book, many chapters, many characters. You get to write who is in the chapters of your book.

Just because someone is Muslim does not mean they will not accept you. It depends on their beliefs and what they have been taught and believe.

Ignoring and not mentioning what you said does not mean it was not said. Part of being a trans woman is developing agency. When you text him explain who you are and be proud, hold you head up and say I am ....

What he does with the information is not in your control. Nor are you responsible for how the other person responds.

You are a beautiful person and deserve to be treated as such.   

Oh yes, I don't want to suggest for a second that being muslim automatically means you will not accept this. Because another one of my muslim friends does with an open heart. It's just that this friend has made it very clear his religious beliefs are a major reason he does not.

Idk... I guess if I was him, I might feel hurt a friend was holding it behind my back for so long? But then again... He made it clear he would not accept it... Idk.

Quote from: KathyLauren on September 04, 2016, 06:59:55 AM
If you are uncomfortable about telling him, I see nothing wrong with not telling him.  He was clearly uncomfortable about the subject before, and you did promise him not to talk about it again.  I see nothing wrong with keeping that promise.  It's not like it is going to be a secret for much longer.

On the other hand, if you feel it is necessary for your own integrity to tell him, be ready for an angry reaction.  Plan the location so that you are in a safe place.

I'm going to text him, so that is as safe as possible. But now I am scared of just how angry he could get... I mean, isn't it worse to just let it finally explode when it is not avoidable? Idk :/

I applaud you for having diverse friends and acquaintances and for caring about how others feel as you "come out".  Still, one principle to consider is that we are ultimately not responsible for how others feel.  You know that two people can respond in completely polar ways to the same stimulation.  If a comic tells a joke maybe half the audience thinks it was way funny and some might consider it bigotry or hate.  I am the creator and the responsible party for my feelings.  If I find myself hurt It is not necessarily true that anyone did something wrong to me.  We create and we own our feelings.

Others gave you great advice about how/where to communicate with him.  Congratulations on coming out so considerately!

There is nothing wrong with what you did. You made a promise that was appropriate at the time. I assume you  were being straight with him when you made it. The fact that circumstances have changed calls for a reevaluation of your agreement. You have every right to live your life as you see fit. You do seem to be a bit afraid of this person. Maybe a letter (the old fashion form of communication) might allow you to explain why things must change. It is not a matter of disrespecting him, it is a matter of something you must do for yourself. Ask for him to respond with his feedback. You can then decide if he is to stay in your life or not.
Monica

I think it's at least worth giving him a chance. Some people can surprise you in how accepting they turn out to be and it just takes some time and some educating. It sounds like what he said to you previously was his gut reaction without actually knowing anything about trans stuff. Although if he turns out to still say hurtful things to you after coming out I would leave him with the necessary information about all things trans and how it's not a choice and not talk to him until after he understands.

I think it's important to be honest with him even if you may lose him as a friend. He's not really your friend if he doesn't see you as your true sekf but rather the facade you've had to hide behind all these years.

Quote from: SadieBlake on September 04, 2016, 08:04:15 AM
If you've mutually acknowledged that he's not comfortable, then I wouldn't make it a coming out conversation per se, rather you may want to find out if he's comfortable continuing to be friends and that knowing he has opinions on it, you feel the need to inform him.

From what you said, this may be someone who indeed can't accept you as a transitioning woman and so letting him know in terms of seeing if you can still be friends would seem to be the most respectful way to go.

I've had a few surprises along the way of coming out and the most recent has been from the most judgemental and prickly person I know and sometimes work with in blowing glass. Since coming out to her she's not only been more friendly, she's completely opened up about stuff in her life, acknowledged she can be a real b**** and related the parental abuse she grew up with.

The real shock was Friday we had coffee, my GF joined and my friend began a conversation about what it's like being hit on as an Asian woman in a way that made it clear she now considers me 'one of the girls', not the sort of things women would often discuss around men.

Anyhow @redheadwhovian, I hope all your coming out conversations go well yet it seems likely this one could reject you and I'd be sure to have the conversation in a safe place as well as evaluate whether this might be someone better kept in a "don't ask, don't tell" category. I'm sorry to stereotype but I've seen many instances of people from other cultures get violent / misogynist in ways that surprised me. It's not that the different culture is bad so much as could make it hard to understand or predict responses.

Oh yes, definitely. I feel like that is the best way of going about it. I won't talk to him as if I am coming out again, but rather just give him this last ultimatum. I'll say something like "I'm afraid that this is very much real, and I will be continuing my transition, and I would love to still have you as a friend as I go forward."

Quote from: Nuuni on September 04, 2016, 12:25:25 PM
It's also extremely likely that he knows and is completely aware. He said he didn't want to talk about it, but it doesn't mean that he is blind. And you promised not to talk either, so he isn't expecting you to.
Do things like pronouns never get used around you or something? Does the topic never come up around the people you are out to?

It is quite possible yeah. And yeah, he always refers to me as he/him, with my male name, and all friends do the same when he is present.

Quote from: Tessa James on September 04, 2016, 01:26:43 PM
I applaud you for having diverse friends and acquaintances and for caring about how others feel as you "come out".  Still, one principle to consider is that we are ultimately not responsible for how others feel.  You know that two people can respond in completely polar ways to the same stimulation.  If a comic tells a joke maybe half the audience thinks it was way funny and some might consider it bigotry or hate.  I am the creator and the responsible party for my feelings.  If I find myself hurt It is not necessarily true that anyone did something wrong to me.  We create and we own our feelings.

Others gave you great advice about how/where to communicate with him.  Congratulations on coming out so considerately!

Thank you, I am flattered. ^_^ To be honest, everyone has their fears of transitioning, and my biggest is without a doubt losing friends. I think I needed to hear exactly what you just told me to not feel guilty about this.

Quote from: HappyMoni on September 04, 2016, 09:24:42 PM
There is nothing wrong with what you did. You made a promise that was appropriate at the time. I assume you  were being straight with him when you made it. The fact that circumstances have changed calls for a reevaluation of your agreement. You have every right to live your life as you see fit. You do seem to be a bit afraid of this person. Maybe a letter (the old fashion form of communication) might allow you to explain why things must change. It is not a matter of disrespecting him, it is a matter of something you must do for yourself. Ask for him to respond with his feedback. You can then decide if he is to stay in your life or not.
Monica

Okay, I just need to keep telling myself that, thank you. : ) And I am planning a text actually, because the guy kind of does intimidated me.

Quote from: Elis on September 04, 2016, 11:13:52 PM
I think it's at least worth giving him a chance. Some people can surprise you in how accepting they turn out to be and it just takes some time and some educating. It sounds like what he said to you previously was his gut reaction without actually knowing anything about trans stuff. Although if he turns out to still say hurtful things to you after coming out I would leave him with the necessary information about all things trans and how it's not a choice and not talk to him until after he understands.

I think it's important to be honest with him even if you may lose him as a friend. He's not really your friend if he doesn't see you as your true sekf but rather the facade you've had to hide behind all these years.

Oh I absolutely agree he deserves a chance, which is why I wonder if I am at fault for keeping it from him til now, and not having faith in his judgement?

Quote from: RedheadWhovian on September 05, 2016, 03:09:52 AM
Oh I absolutely agree he deserves a chance, which is why I wonder if I am at fault for keeping it from him til now, and not having faith in his judgement?

No harm, no foul, we all have to make choices and the coming out ones can be hard. If later on you find there was less to be concerned about that's ok also. His signals read pretty clear to me and I think you're making the best decisions available.