Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi, everyone. I just have a quick question. There's not really anything that leads me to asking this, aside from stupid paranoia, but is it possible for hormones to stop working to some extent after a while? Like can we build a tolerance to them or something?

No.  But you can reach the point of your maximum genetic expression of female secondary characteristics.

Ask any B cup ciswoman that wants D cups.

I wondered the same thing years ago but then I noticed that my growth spurts would generally come in three month intervals then slow down awhile and pick up again awhile later

Breast growth is the most noticeable and may plateau after awhile but there are also other less noticeable feminizing aspects going on as well

So don't give up

Hugs

At lower doses, hormones can maintain you. If your dose does not change, your body will likely keep changing. After 25 years of HRT, I just went from small C to full C (D if I wear a sports bra). Just be patient. Cycles happen. 😃

Quote from: rwOnnaDesuKa on September 09, 2016, 07:10:55 PM
No.  But you can reach the point of your maximum genetic expression of female secondary characteristics.

Ask any B cup ciswoman that wants D cups.

I'm assuming/hoping that can't happen in only 9 months?

Quote from: V M on September 09, 2016, 07:25:59 PM
I wondered the same thing years ago but then I noticed that my growth spurts would generally come in three month intervals then slow down awhile and pick up again awhile later

Breast growth is the most noticeable and may plateau after awhile but there are also other less noticeable feminizing aspects going on as well

So don't give up

Hugs

That can happen?  :o I mean, like, it can work like that where it is in intervals? Also, 9 months is way too early to stop developing, right? Haha

Quote from: Lady Sarah on September 09, 2016, 07:55:59 PM
At lower doses, hormones can maintain you. If your dose does not change, your body will likely keep changing. After 25 years of HRT, I just went from small C to full C (D if I wear a sports bra). Just be patient. Cycles happen. 😃

I had no idea it can work in cycles like that! :O

Quote from: RedheadWhovian on September 09, 2016, 09:18:25 PM
I'm assuming/hoping that can't happen in only 9 months?

That can happen?  :o I mean, like, it can work like that where it is in intervals? Also, 9 months is way too early to stop developing, right? Haha

I had no idea it can work in cycles like that! :O

That's how it worked with me, luckily the growth cycles/intervals generally last longer than the down time which usually lasts only for a week or two and even then there seems to be a degree of shaping going on

I thought I'd be a B-Cup forever but over time I developed into a C, put on a padded push up bra and suddenly I'm a D  :icon_chick:

Everyone develops a bit differently, but mostly it just takes time

Hugs

Full development can take 5-10 years but after 2-3 years you should see a good deal of development. I started HRT in 1977, went off in 2006 and restarted about 7 months ago. Because of the primitive nature of the first treatment, I didn't fully develop and now I sit here with achy breasts that continue to expand. What a difference a quarter of a century makes  ;D

I have heared you mention this before Dena, it is amasing how fast things advance alright.
Whovian, we will always want it all as fast as possible, the body wont become immune to hormones and it as others have said, it takes years for all the changes to fully happen, and it will be cyclical and in waves, flushes or spurts of growth, I would even go a step further and guess that ther will subtle changes that happen all life long.
I think once we as trans women have blocked the T thats all that matters, no more male development, let the work away after that un hindered, we are moving in the right direction now :3

Quote from: RedheadWhovian on September 09, 2016, 09:18:25 PM
I'm assuming/hoping that can't happen in only 9 months?

no no, it works like regular female puberty, more or less, think 2-10 years depending on your genetics.

I'm now of the opinion, after testing this regimen for a year (by next August), that cycling your estrogen and progesterone (if taking it) to mimic the menstrual cycle of a natal woman is what causes the development to occur.  The other thing I did was go sublingual.  I have to take in consideration that my stomach is not like the average person, where I do not eat things like the average person does (I am vegan) nor drink much of anything other than water (I haven't done sodas on a regular basis since 1993 - meaning I was told to drink sprite with crackers to keep me from getting sick while in recovery from my orchie, and stopped drinking alcohol for health reasons over a year ago).  I have a very clean G.I. tract, and that might be causing it to just destroy the estradiol to a great extent.  I'm keeping most of the development even after 8 days of base line levels.

I had reached a point where on the dosage I was on for years, I really didn't maintain my breast growth and in fact regressed.  I went through my first cycle last month, and surprise(!), I had itchy breast again, and that continued through the first 3 days of the base line period (up to one or two days into the menses stage).  I had breasts that I didn't realize I had lost before.  Now I have to handle my arms a bit differently because my breast are now getting in the way!

I'm going to copy and paste from an earlier post I made:

I find that using a standard X mg of estradiol is not really working for me (I have been on hormones for 18 years and went full-time legally 17 years ago), in that I see evidence of estrogen insensitivity after so many years of using the same dosage.  I am mostly through my first cycle (where the secondary peak comes after the interim bottom before bottoming out at the end of the cycle), and I see major results already.  Not only the enlarged breast development, but just how I feel and think.

Maybe it's not evident yet, but I've already hit the very high peak of the cycle and bottomed out at the interim for a day, and I don't seem to feel a difference towards the negative side, like being moody or crying.  I noticed that on a lower, stable dosage, being post-orchie for 10 years, I felt like the masculine side was coming out, like the tendency to read about a certain group of people, its history of conquest, the dangers evident, and what their strategies are for world domination, talking to people about having to arm themselves against this group of people, etc.  I thought about doing this, doing that.  I also noticed that I was losing breast mass and staying there.  I noticed that when I started the menstrual cycling, these male feelings or tendencies started to abate and I felt the tell-tale signs of breast development, sensitive nipples, which I hadn't felt in years.  Sure enough, the development started a few days later.

I've thought about the cycling of estrogen...  In recent weeks, I've begun to understand what could be happening as one goes through the menstrual cycle.  It seems to be that the effect of such a cycle intended for the "cycling" of the uterus lining and the ovulation is that when estrogen levels are low, the body maintains its shape or female fat levels in the body; when it ramps up for a few days towards the peak, the feminization effect steps up and is reached for that cycle; and then the estrogen level drops back down fairly hard before gradually increasing up to a little more than half the peak level for a few days before returning towards the "base line" level near the end of the cycle.  That hard drop down seems to give the estrogen receptors a quick break before the level goes back up partially for a second time.  I would think that because the receptors are "freshly exposed" from the high peak of a few days before, they are able to respond "anaphylactically" to that second smaller peak before estrogen levels down to the base level for the next 7-10 days for the next cycle, meaning a higher response to a smaller level of estrogen than the peak level.  I assume that in a woman's body, the amount of feminization "lost" during the "base line" period would be less than what was gained in the previous cycle, assuming no pregnancy happens.  So the amount of feminization increases to its maximum potential for the body through periodic resting and restoration of maximum response to estrogen and layering the results one on top of the other.  Your body this cycle is slightly more feminized than it was last cycle (though it takes several cycles for something to become noticeable) until you reach your max potential.

I realized that a reason that drug addicts go for higher dosages is because of insensitivity to the drugs if taken continuously over a period of time, and noticing that if I was on a steady diet of alcohol (2-3 beers per week) and stopping, then noticing sensitivity after picking up again a few months later, and then noticing the effect dropping after a month (I don't drink anymore because I don't want health issues with it).  It seems very interesting that the female body was designed with this mode of functioning so that it does two things at once - periodically shed the uterus lining in response to no egg fertilization and the periodic egg release, and to build up the secondary sexual characteristics over time, rapidly through estrogen cycling to maintain estrogen receptor sensitivity.

Ahh, another anecdote without science.. An anecdote that ignores some scientific realities and accepted medical best practice..

It's been almost 5 years of hrt and I'm still seeing changes

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

Is it just me or am i getting paranoid.   I felts great starting my hrt a few days ago.   Now im starting to worry.   Is it really going to work?  I know in the end we all want to at some point transition and start off at a low dosage.   I just want to believe this transition can happen, and im not just wasting money on priscription.   I felt great for a few days why am i all of the sudden worried? So many thing goung thru my head.   I wont see my endo till nov.  Seems like a long time.  Should I look for another endo?  What if my prescriptions arnt working.  I just hope im not wasting money.

Quote from: Mikka55 on September 12, 2016, 01:22:55 AM
Is it just me or am i getting paranoid.   I felts great starting my hrt a few days ago.   Now im starting to worry.   Is it really going to work?  I know in the end we all want to at some point transition and start off at a low dosage.   I just want to believe this transition can happen, and im not just wasting money on priscription.   I felt great for a few days why am i all of the sudden worried? So many thing goung thru my head.   I wont see my endo till nov.  Seems like a long time.  Should I look for another endo?  What if my prescriptions arnt working.  I just hope im not wasting money.

Patience and then even more patience!! It will work, but it takes around a month to first start noticing the effects. The exciting changes take much longer to be noticeable.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

Yep, it usually takes about a month for things to get going

First they'll start to ache and form small mounds, It's actually very much like what young girls go through when they hit puberty  :icon_chick:

There's a good chance you may become a bit fussy and moody as well  >:-)

Quote from: Mikka55 on September 12, 2016, 01:22:55 AM
Is it just me or am i getting paranoid.   I felt great starting my hrt a few days ago.   Now im starting to worry.   Is it really going to work?  . . .  I felt great for a few days why am i all of the sudden worried? So many thing goung thru my head.   I wont see my endo till nov.  Seems like a long time.  Should I look for another endo?  What if my prescriptions aren't working.  I just hope im not wasting money.

Oh, yeah!  It's working!  But the biological changes of HRT are gradual.  They unfold over months and years, not over days.

Lots of folks feel a tremendous emotional lift at the point of commencing HRT, and I think that's what you're describing about your first days on HRT.  It's a feeling of finally taking a serious step on the road of transition - of finally moving in the right direction.  Treasure that feeling, but don't confuse it with the work the hormones are doing on a bodily/cellular level.

Since you indicate you just started HRT recently and your endo appointment is in November, it looks like your endo wants to review the levels at a 90-day interval.  Sounds pretty reasonable to me!

In addition to incremental bodily changes, you'll also gradually notice some very welcome psychological and emotional changes as HRT progresses.  Don't ever forget that it takes a 12-year-old girl eight years to develop into a 20-year-old woman.  Lean back and enjoy the ride!

FTM chiming in! I'd imagine it would be the same for us as our first puberty: at some point we're going to get to our maximum point of masculinization or feminization.  Puberty typically lasts, what, 2-5 years? I've bee on T 7 years and still see changes so....{shrug!}

Well with T and lots of food and sleep; you can continue to build muscle mass well into your 50's; so you got some good, long term options for FTM's if you don't mind lifting weights.    Nothing says "guy" quite like a 17"+ muscular neck.

nb... your avatar pick is pretty darn masculine as is though,  tat sleeve's a good touch.

I've been on HRT for almost a year and while I am still seeing some changes to my skin, i haven't seen any changes to my breasts since about month 4 - so I'm still waiting for these cycles to happen! I'd love to get a bit bigger than a AA 😢

My estrogen levels are around 650, so should be high enough.

Quote from: Mohini on September 10, 2016, 10:00:31 PM
I'm now of the opinion, after testing this regimen for a year (by next August), that cycling your estrogen and progesterone (if taking it) to mimic the menstrual cycle of a natal woman is what causes the development to occur.  The other thing I did was go sublingual.  I have to take in consideration that my stomach is not like the average person, where I do not eat things like the average person does (I am vegan) nor drink much of anything other than water (I haven't done sodas on a regular basis since 1993 - meaning I was told to drink sprite with crackers to keep me from getting sick while in recovery from my orchie, and stopped drinking alcohol for health reasons over a year ago).  I have a very clean G.I. tract, and that might be causing it to just destroy the estradiol to a great extent.  I'm keeping most of the development even after 8 days of base line levels.

I had reached a point where on the dosage I was on for years, I really didn't maintain my breast growth and in fact regressed.  I went through my first cycle last month, and surprise(!), I had itchy breast again, and that continued through the first 3 days of the base line period (up to one or two days into the menses stage).  I had breasts that I didn't realize I had lost before.  Now I have to handle my arms a bit differently because my breast are now getting in the way!

I'm going to copy and paste from an earlier post I made:

I find that using a standard X mg of estradiol is not really working for me (I have been on hormones for 18 years and went full-time legally 17 years ago), in that I see evidence of estrogen insensitivity after so many years of using the same dosage.  I am mostly through my first cycle (where the secondary peak comes after the interim bottom before bottoming out at the end of the cycle), and I see major results already.  Not only the enlarged breast development, but just how I feel and think.

Maybe it's not evident yet, but I've already hit the very high peak of the cycle and bottomed out at the interim for a day, and I don't seem to feel a difference towards the negative side, like being moody or crying.  I noticed that on a lower, stable dosage, being post-orchie for 10 years, I felt like the masculine side was coming out, like the tendency to read about a certain group of people, its history of conquest, the dangers evident, and what their strategies are for world domination, talking to people about having to arm themselves against this group of people, etc.  I thought about doing this, doing that.  I also noticed that I was losing breast mass and staying there.  I noticed that when I started the menstrual cycling, these male feelings or tendencies started to abate and I felt the tell-tale signs of breast development, sensitive nipples, which I hadn't felt in years.  Sure enough, the development started a few days later.

I've thought about the cycling of estrogen...  In recent weeks, I've begun to understand what could be happening as one goes through the menstrual cycle.  It seems to be that the effect of such a cycle intended for the "cycling" of the uterus lining and the ovulation is that when estrogen levels are low, the body maintains its shape or female fat levels in the body; when it ramps up for a few days towards the peak, the feminization effect steps up and is reached for that cycle; and then the estrogen level drops back down fairly hard before gradually increasing up to a little more than half the peak level for a few days before returning towards the "base line" level near the end of the cycle.  That hard drop down seems to give the estrogen receptors a quick break before the level goes back up partially for a second time.  I would think that because the receptors are "freshly exposed" from the high peak of a few days before, they are able to respond "anaphylactically" to that second smaller peak before estrogen levels down to the base level for the next 7-10 days for the next cycle, meaning a higher response to a smaller level of estrogen than the peak level.  I assume that in a woman's body, the amount of feminization "lost" during the "base line" period would be less than what was gained in the previous cycle, assuming no pregnancy happens.  So the amount of feminization increases to its maximum potential for the body through periodic resting and restoration of maximum response to estrogen and layering the results one on top of the other.  Your body this cycle is slightly more feminized than it was last cycle (though it takes several cycles for something to become noticeable) until you reach your max potential.

I realized that a reason that drug addicts go for higher dosages is because of insensitivity to the drugs if taken continuously over a period of time, and noticing that if I was on a steady diet of alcohol (2-3 beers per week) and stopping, then noticing sensitivity after picking up again a few months later, and then noticing the effect dropping after a month (I don't drink anymore because I don't want health issues with it).  It seems very interesting that the female body was designed with this mode of functioning so that it does two things at once - periodically shed the uterus lining in response to no egg fertilization and the periodic egg release, and to build up the secondary sexual characteristics over time, rapidly through estrogen cycling to maintain estrogen receptor sensitivity.

Traditionally, women would have much less cycles during their lifetimes, being pregnant and breastfeeding most their lives. It's even been suggested that the high number of cycles in women these days are one of the reasons there is an increase in breast cancer incidence. In the old days, breast cancer was rare in women, while most frequent in nuns who had many more cycles.

Quote from: becky.rw on September 15, 2016, 08:14:25 AM
Well with T and lots of food and sleep; you can continue to build muscle mass well into your 50's; so you got some good, long term options for FTM's if you don't mind lifting weights.    Nothing says "guy" quite like a 17"+ muscular neck.

nb... your avatar pick is pretty darn masculine as is though,  tat sleeve's a good touch.

Sure, of course. I still see changes to my face and other subtle things though, 7 years on. Body hair and such.

And thanks--been getting tattooed since 1991 :)

Quote from: KayXo on September 18, 2016, 09:09:17 PM
Traditionally, women would have much less cycles during their lifetimes, being pregnant and breastfeeding most their lives. It's even been suggested that the high number of cycles in women these days are one of the reasons there is an increase in breast cancer incidence. In the old days, breast cancer was rare in women, while most frequent in nuns who had many more cycles.

Understood, KayXo.  What I am referring to is the growth phase of life and the first few years of adulthood that determine how your body will turn out as a natal woman.

Something doesn't feel right. For the past week I have seemed to be very calm.  Today I took my Spiro earlier earlier than usual.  But after work 8 hours later.  I didn't feel like the calm me, I couldn't even think properly.  (so many chitter chatter in my mind and always thinking).  I felt like my pre hrt self.  Why did I all of the sudden have this boost of energy? why couldn't I just clearly think.  Is it possible stress??  I do have a lot going on in the next 3 days trying to plan and work out a few things with my 2 jobs with secdueling.  Will stress affect us, and change everything?

Quote from: Mohini on September 19, 2016, 10:40:54 AM
Understood, KayXo.  What I am referring to is the growth phase of life and the first few years of adulthood that determine how your body will turn out as a natal woman.

During that phase of life, growth hormone levels are also higher and the body is much more sensitive to hormones.