Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Yeah I can't come out because my parents are transphobic. I want to transition right now or at least get on blockers until I am 20 or something. Could I hide my transition well?

My sisters are 34b and I am 185 cm tall I think that's 6 feet. I am also very skinny.
I don't see my face to masculine and I don't grow much facial hair at much only the chin and moustache. I shave like each 4 days the moustache and the chin like once a week. My shoulders aren't that big they are in between 16 and 17 inches.

Please give tips and be honest.

Thanks!

Depends, if the country thinks you're a minor then they might not allow it without parental permission.
They would probably notice the breasts.

I am not sure where you live but mostly you will have reach the age where you are considered an adult and have your own access to medical care if your parents don't agree. Blockers and hormones can be dangerous if taken without medical supervision so they require a prescription. Possible your school system might have a therapist available that could help but other than that, your options are limited.

Quote from: Xirafel on September 17, 2016, 10:37:06 PM
Depends, if the country thinks you're a minor then they might not allow it without parental permission.
They would probably notice the breasts.

I am a minor in my country but I don't know the rules for transitioning here. But would I develop enough breasts to the point where they find out? I could bind but I couldn't swim or do dtuff thst requires taking of your shirt.

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do not try and bind with developing breasts if you do not want to risk damage to them. Blockers can be dangerous over a long period of time, and 4 years might be cutting it a bit fine, but is certainly workable.

Quote from: Just Me Here on September 17, 2016, 10:48:15 PM
do not try and bind with developing breasts if you do not want to risk damage to them. Blockers can be dangerous over a long period of time, and 4 years might be cutting it a bit fine, but is certainly workable.

Suppose I reach 20 just fine with blockers will the results be the same if I transition now compare to transitioning at 20 with 4 years of blockers?

If you were to receive estrogen, you would might have less height than the blockers alone. The blockers will delay puberty and would buy you more time to get your life in order.

Quote from: Dena on September 17, 2016, 11:12:37 PM
If you were to receive estrogen, you would might have less height than the blockers alone. The blockers will delay puberty and would buy you more time to get your life in order.

As a blocker I would get spiro but the results would be the same compared to now snd if I start at 20. I really really wish I could start now but my parents would hate me they would say that I ashame the family.

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You should find someone to talk to even if not a gender therapist, being able to talk to someone really helps wheather its a councelor at school or a professional therapist talking and working thru your feelings is the best place to start

Quote from: jpsteev on September 17, 2016, 10:58:19 PM
Suppose I reach 20 just fine with blockers will the results be the same if I transition now compare to transitioning at 20 with 4 years of blockers?

I'm not certain about this, but I don't see why 4 years with blockers vs immediate would make much of a difference. Things would not be exactly the same but there wouldn't be much change. You've probably already finished your growth spurt which means that all that you're waiting for now is beard growth and a small amount of further darkening body hair, blockers will almost certainly stop this and might give you a small amount of gynecomastia. They might also stop any further masculinizing features developing on your face, if you are predisposed to developing them at all.

Quote from: Just Me Here on September 18, 2016, 02:54:11 PM
I'm not certain about this, but I don't see why 4 years with blockers vs immediate would make much of a difference. Things would not be exactly the same but there wouldn't be much change. You've probably already finished your growth spurt which means that all that you're waiting for now is beard growth and a small amount of further darkening body hair, blockers will almost certainly stop this and might give you a small amount of gynecomastia. They might also stop any further masculinizing features developing on your face, if you are predisposed to developing them at all.

Is spiro a blocker?

NO DOSAGES

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Spiro is indeed a blocker. It is used most commonly in America, more out of tradition than being the most effective product on the market. It will block T, but it is also a diuretic, so you will have to drink a lot and pee a lot.
Dutasteride and Finasteride will block DHT, which is a more potent form of T, but will do nothing to stop standard T from affecting you (DHT is important in terminal hair differentiation - darkening, growing, etc. - so blocking it would have effects).
Whereas, flutamide, cyproterone acetate and bicalutamide will block both DHT and T (of these bicalutamide has the least side effects - I think by now everyone thinks I'm some sort of bicalutamide shill) however, I don't live in the US so I don't know which of these are approved by the FDA. Also, most of these blockers are not widely known as they are use more for Testosterone dependent prostate cancer.
It might be worth checking whether state laws mean you are able to seek out a gender therapist without them contacting your family for permission. Just because you see one doesn't mean you have to go on E, you can simply ask for blockers in the meanwhile.

TL;DR yes spiro is a blocker

Quote from: Just Me Here on September 18, 2016, 03:16:32 PM
Spiro is indeed a blocker. It is used most commonly in America, more out of tradition than being the most effective product on the market. It will block T, but it is also a diuretic, so you will have to drink a lot and pee a lot.
Dutasteride and Finasteride will block DHT, which is a more potent form of T, but will do nothing to stop standard T from affecting you (DHT is important in terminal hair differentiation - darkening, growing, etc. - so blocking it would have effects).
Whereas, flutamide, cyproterone acetate and bicalutamide will block both DHT and T (of these bicalutamide has the least side effects - I think by now everyone thinks I'm some sort of bicalutamide shill) however, I don't live in the US so I don't know which of these are approved by the FDA. Also, most of these blockers are not widely known as they are use more for Testosterone dependent prostate cancer.
It might be worth checking whether state laws mean you are able to seek out a gender therapist without them contacting your family for permission. Just because you see one doesn't mean you have to go on E, you can simply ask for blockers in the meanwhile.

TL;DR yes spiro is a blocker

Is Spiro by its own enough?

Any blockers during puberty have profound health risks that can result in permanent health issues and require medical supervision. Do not use blockers without medical supervision.

Spiro is not used as a blocker during puberty the blockers used are GnHr analogues as they are less dangerous.

The risk of health issues is very high.

I am unhappy with unqualified medical advice being given in this thread, if it continues I shall be taking action against those posters.

Cindy
Forum Admin

Quote from: Cindy on September 18, 2016, 06:03:02 PM
I am unhappy with unqualified medical advice being given in this thread, if it continues I shall be taking action against those posters.

Cindy
Forum Admin

message deleted by Forum Admin

Quote from: jpsteev on September 18, 2016, 06:06:12 PM

Quote from: Cindy on September 18, 2016, 06:03:02 PM
I am unhappy with unqualified medical advice being given in this thread, if it continues I shall be taking action against those posters.

Cindy
Forum Admin

message deleted

First and final warning. Don't argue in public with Moderators. Read the ToS.

Quote from: Cindy on September 18, 2016, 06:09:07 PM
message deleted


First and final warning. Don't argue in public with Moderators. Read the ToS.

Sorry if I was rude what's ToS?

I agree that talking to a school counselor, maybe a friendly teacher or friend you can trust will help you feel not so alone.

Also as you can see you can get support here too.

If things ever get really bad there is this site too. It has an 800 number.

http://www.translifeline.org/

Quote from: jpsteev on September 18, 2016, 06:12:10 PM

Quote from: Cindy on September 18, 2016, 06:09:07 PM
message deleted


First and final warning. Don't argue in public with Moderators. Read the ToS.

Sorry if I was rude what's ToS?

You should have been given a link when you joined but please take time to read the Terms of Service for using the site.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html

My concerns for your health are real. Unsupervised use of blockers can result in permanent bone damage, kidney failure and liver damage.

Quote from: Cindy on September 18, 2016, 06:17:49 PM
Sorry if I was rude what's ToS?



You should have been given a link when you joined but please take time to read the Terms of Service for using the site.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html

My concerns for your health are real. Unsupervised use of blockers can result in permanent bone damage, kidney failure and liver damage.

My parents will kick me out if I start normal HRT my only hope would be to be in a very low dosage of spiro and e to prevent further changes but at 16 here where I live I am sure that I need my parents consent (I think that's what it's called). And I don't really trust counselors in my school well there isn't really anyone specialized. I attend a catholic school and the only thing they have is spiritual guidance. So me talking about being trans with a priest oh no thanks. They'll start talking to me about god making me a man for a reason which I have to discover. And I'm pretty sure that they will tell everything to my parents which will tell me the same thing as the priest would. No offense to god or anything but it's the truth. There's a government support center like an hour from me but my parents won't let me take the car that far. I would probably have to go on a friday and tell them I'm going to a friend's house to spend the day. But here everything government free institution takes so long until they attend you. And driving 2 hours isn't really the most I would like and what would I keep telling my parents each time (but everything is free and that's great even hormones are free). And either way let's suppose I'm there I don't think that they'll offer me help or a therapist without my parents being involved. My plan wad to be on blockers for 2 years until I can go to a foreign university probably to the United States or in Germany perhaps and then get a job in starbucks or similar and start HRT there. My plan is reliable but if I don't take the blockers I'll be a lot more masculine than I am now. For example my dad has very broad shoulders and rib cage he's 59. And also coming out to my 4 sisters which 2 of them are somewhat rude to me and the other 2 that are a lot older than me would be weirded out but 1 would support me probably. The other 3 would probably disown me or treat me like the biggest freak. I know this because someone they know transitioned from FtM and they critiziced him a lot and my mom said that trans people are crazy and have something wrong going on their brain and that they should seek help. So my family wouldn't help at all. I have it really difficult IMO.

That is why I was considering blockers.

Quote from: Cindy on September 18, 2016, 06:01:03 PM
Any blockers during puberty have profound health risks that can result in permanent health issues and require medical supervision. Do not use blockers without medical supervision.

Spiro is not used as a blocker during puberty the blockers used are GnHr analogues as they are less dangerous.

The risk of health issues is very high.

This isn't puberty anymore except in the loosest terms. 6 ft is pretty much maximum height and 16 is usually the minimum age for starting HRT in some states, or so I believe.

Quote from: Just Me Here on September 18, 2016, 06:46:15 PM
This isn't puberty anymore except in the loosest terms. He's reached his maximum height and he's also 16 which is usually the minimum age for starting HRT in some states, or so I believe.

I'm kind of new to all of this. So that means is Spiro not as dangerous to cause kidney problems.

Sorry if that goes back to the medical unknown support ma'am but I really don't know what else could I reply. Feel free to delete this reply.

But back to the answer I'm not getting taller just growing more beard. I'm starting to get a very tiny more on the area near my ears. Not on my ears obviously.

All foreign compounds have varying effects on the liver and the kidneys, spiro is one of the safer ones.

Quote from: Just Me Here on September 18, 2016, 07:02:22 PM
All foreign compounds have varying effects on the liver and the kidneys, spiro is one of the safer ones.

So I should be able to take spiro then.


Cindy I'll see what they tell me at the trans center if I manage to go. Just need to wait until thursday for some parts for my car to arrive and fix it. And just another thing to add to something that I said earlier if I come out to my parents they would think that I'm joking or it will be more weirder. Because I haven't acted even a bit femenine in front of them I look kind of depressed sometimes but they confuse it with me being lazy because they have never asked me what's wrong. I do spend most of my time away from them though.
My English is getting worse and worse sorry if I wrote it all wrong.

Cindy has an extensive medical background. Because of personal reasons, she is also aware of the proper use of medications used for transgender treatment. Spiro requires a higher salt intake and controlled potassium intake as well as consuming large quantities of water. Constant blood monitoring is required to determine the effect on testosterone levels so the least amount of drug is used accomplish the desired goals. If you are unable to arrange proper treatment, the safest action is to delay treatment until you can receive proper treatment.

When a drug is considered safer, that doesn't mean it can be taken without medical supervision. Spiro is one that requires careful monitoring to be safe.

Quote from: Dena on September 18, 2016, 09:07:25 PM
Cindy has an extensive medical background. Because of personal reasons, she is also aware of the proper use of medications used for transgender treatment. Spiro requires a higher salt intake and controlled potassium intake as well as consuming large quantities of water. Constant blood monitoring is required to determine the effect on testosterone levels so the least amount of drug is used accomplish the desired goals. If you are unable to arrange proper treatment, the safest action is to delay treatment until you can receive proper treatment.

When a drug is considered safer, that doesn't mean it can be taken without medical supervision. Spiro is one that requires careful monitoring to be safe.

And which could be the worst damages of spyro. I know it can kill you with extremly big doses.

Spiro is often given to us at the highest dosages as blocking Testosterone is a side effect of the drug. Spiro was originally developed to treat heart issues so there may be additional side effects other than the ones that are listed below.

Common Side Effects of Spironolactone
Vomiting, diarrhea, and stomach pain or cramps
Dry mouth and thirst
Dizziness, unsteadiness, and headache
Gynecomastia (enlarged breast tissue) in men, and breast pain in women
Irregular menstrual periods and post-menopausal vaginal bleeding
Erectile dysfunction
Deepening of the voice and increased hair growth
Drowsiness, tiredness, and restlessness
Severe Side Effects of Spironolactone
Muscle pain or weakness
Numbness or tingling
Paralysis in the arms or legs
Arrhythmia
Confusion, extreme tiredness, and fainting
Unusual bleeding or bruising
Life-threatening skin reactions
Flu-like symptoms, pain in the upper right abdomen, loss of appetite, vomiting blood, or bloody stools
Difficulty breathing or swallowing
Decreased urination

Quote from: Dena on September 18, 2016, 09:45:06 PM
Spiro is often given to us at the highest dosages as blocking Testosterone is a side effect of the drug. Spiro was originally developed to treat heart issues so there may be additional side effects other than the ones that are listed below.

Common Side Effects of Spironolactone
Vomiting, diarrhea, and stomach pain or cramps
Dry mouth and thirst
Dizziness, unsteadiness, and headache
Gynecomastia (enlarged breast tissue) in men, and breast pain in women
Irregular menstrual periods and post-menopausal vaginal bleeding
Erectile dysfunction
Deepening of the voice and increased hair growth
Drowsiness, tiredness, and restlessness
Severe Side Effects of Spironolactone
Muscle pain or weakness
Numbness or tingling
Paralysis in the arms or legs
Arrhythmia
Confusion, extreme tiredness, and fainting
Unusual bleeding or bruising
Life-threatening skin reactions
Flu-like symptoms, pain in the upper right abdomen, loss of appetite, vomiting blood, or bloody stools
Difficulty breathing or swallowing
Decreased urination

The severe ones are pretty scary. But your endo does blood tests to measure your t. If your t is very low you get the severe side effects? Or does it depend on the individual.

Some of the items I see are the result of dehydration as you really need to make sure you are drinking sufficient water when you are on Sprio. Others are a reaction to the drug that some people may see. Still others can be caught by regular blood monitoring. It's common in HRT treatment to start at a lower dosage and run it for a few months, blood test and adjust the dosage. It could take 3 or 4 blood test before the doctor hits the correct dosage for you.

On HRT, T and E levels are measured. Sometimes estrogen is sufficient to block T but most of the time a blocker is required. I am post surgical and my T levels are in the feminine range. The main danger of low T and low E is that you lose calcium from your bones. It's the reason why older people are at a greater risk of breaking bones in a fall. This can be countered with more calcium and vitamin D in your diet as well as proper exercise. On the other hand estrogen will help to avoid the problems of low T. 

When I transition long ago, we didn't have blockers and only received estrogen. Blood test were run but they didn't check hormone levels. I am pretty sure that my testosterone levels never dropped much and my estrogen levels were pretty low as well. Modern treatment is much improved but it requires close monitoring by a doctor to make it safe and effective.

Quote from: Dena on September 18, 2016, 10:11:53 PM
Some of the items I see are the result of dehydration as you really need to make sure you are drinking sufficient water when you are on Sprio. Others are a reaction to the drug that some people may see. Still others can be caught by regular blood monitoring. It's common in HRT treatment to start at a lower dosage and run it for a few months, blood test and adjust the dosage. It could take 3 or 4 blood test before the doctor hits the correct dosage for you.

On HRT, T and E levels are measured. Sometimes estrogen is sufficient to block T but most of the time a blocker is required. I am post surgical and my T levels are in the feminine range. The main danger of low T and low E is that you lose calcium from your bones. It's the reason why older people are at a greater risk of breaking bones in a fall. This can be countered with more calcium and vitamin D in your diet as well as proper exercise. On the other hand estrogen will help to avoid the problems of low T. 

When I transition long ago, we didn't have blockers and only received estrogen. Blood test were run but they didn't check hormone levels. I am pretty sure that my testosterone levels never dropped much and my estrogen levels were pretty low as well. Modern treatment is much improved but it requires close monitoring by a doctor to make it safe and effective.

So right now under my circumstances would you rather risk being caught transitioning by the breasts I would develop and probably be questioned why or bullied st school.
Or getting spiro as a blocker.

I'm pretty sure that if I start right now I would get better results. Probably if I use blockers I would be on them 3 years.

Under proper medical care, you could be on Spiro for a while without estrogen. At some point, estrogen could be added at a low dosage to limit the amount of development. My estrogen was cut off for about 10 years but I was aware of the danger so I was careful with my diet and the lack of sex hormones didn't cause any damage. This is something that need to be discussed with a knowledgeable doctor and your physical condition will determine the proper treatment for your body.

Now the warning. I have been back on estrogen for about 7 months and my levels are in the menopause range. Because my dosage was so low in the past, I never developed but this time on a different medication, I am seeing more development that I ever did in the past. It is possible to receive lower dosages than the one I am and it would slow breast development but on the other hand, Spiro can cause breast development though far slower.

Quote from: jpsteev on September 18, 2016, 06:35:02 PM
My parents will kick me out if I start normal HRT my only hope would be to be in a very low dosage of spiro and e to prevent further changes but at 16 here where I live I am sure that I need my parents consent (I think that's what it's called). And I don't really trust counselors in my school well there isn't really anyone specialized. I attend a catholic school and the only thing they have is spiritual guidance. So me talking about being trans with a priest oh no thanks. They'll start talking to me about god making me a man for a reason which I have to discover. And I'm pretty sure that they will tell everything to my parents which will tell me the same thing as the priest would. No offense to god or anything but it's the truth. There's a government support center like an hour from me but my parents won't let me take the car that far. I would probably have to go on a friday and tell them I'm going to a friend's house to spend the day. But here everything government free institution takes so long until they attend you. And driving 2 hours isn't really the most I would like and what would I keep telling my parents each time (but everything is free and that's great even hormones are free). And either way let's suppose I'm there I don't think that they'll offer me help or a therapist without my parents being involved. My plan wad to be on blockers for 2 years until I can go to a foreign university probably to the United States or in Germany perhaps and then get a job in starbucks or similar and start HRT there. My plan is reliable but if I don't take the blockers I'll be a lot more masculine than I am now. For example my dad has very broad shoulders and rib cage he's 59. And also coming out to my 4 sisters which 2 of them are somewhat rude to me and the other 2 that are a lot older than me would be weirded out but 1 would support me probably. The other 3 would probably disown me or treat me like the biggest freak. I know this because someone they know transitioned from FtM and they critiziced him a lot and my mom said that trans people are crazy and have something wrong going on their brain and that they should seek help. So my family wouldn't help at all. I have it really difficult IMO.

That is why I was considering blockers.

It's hard. I know. I went through the same things you are going through when I was your age. 

Quote from: jpsteev on September 17, 2016, 08:46:02 PM
Yeah I can't come out because my parents are transphobic. I want to transition right now or at least get on blockers until I am 20 or something. Could I hide my transition well?

My sisters are 34b and I am 185 cm tall I think that's 6 feet. I am also very skinny.
I don't see my face to masculine and I don't grow much facial hair at much only the chin and moustache. I shave like each 4 days the moustache and the chin like once a week. My shoulders aren't that big they are in between 16 and 17 inches.

Please give tips and be honest.

Thanks!

You need to speak with a doctor about this but let me put it like this even if the doctors agreed and monitored this
and you got your hands on them yes people would eventually notice if it was HRT if it was blockers i'm unsure.