Susan's Place Transgender Resources

One of the custodians where I teach borrowed a copy of my book from the school library.  She said that it was obvious that it was written by a man. ???

So, I would like to ask the following question.

What makes a book appear to be written by a particular gender?  Are there key words?  Does the language change?

What do you think?

Chaunte

Writing style like speech patterns tend to differ.

Hrm, it's been to long ago but there was a url that had an edit box where you could paste some text and it would analyze the writing style and tell you which gender it thought wrote it and why.

Hum, it might have been The Gender Genie (http://www.bookblog.net/gender/genie.html), but "The Gender Genie is down for repairs.", so I am not sure. Regardless, it would have given more specifics to the idea.

[That was a] prime example there incidentally; the male short form was "So not sure".

Anyway, google (http://www.google.com/search?hs=8fI&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=gender+analyze+writing+style&btnG=Search) seems to have a few hits regarding, but I don't see the exact page I was thinking of though it might have been the Gender Genie thing.

Regardless, I tend to use the shorter male style more than I should to get the base idea down (before my mind wanders on to something else) then I go back and add in the parts that it seems to be missing.

^*shrug* I never did well in the English classes and consequently I'm not the best person to chatter on regarding this ^*grin* (=

I don't think I could put my finger on it but there is a difference I think. I read a lot of Science Fantasy and I think you can tell whether the story was written by a male or female writer.

I'll try to capture the differencein an example. Firstly the characters in stories written by men tend to enter into fight scenes either willingly or through situations brought about by themselves. In those stories written by females fight scenes tend to be as a result of no real way to avoid them as they are the result more of the actions of others. This seems to capture the male line of thinking that an action necessarily requires a reaction.

I think I've said that right.

Shelley

As a former English major, I've always been interested in words.  One of my hobbies is trying to guess the gender of news stories I read in the L.A. Times.  It's odd -- you'd think a news story would be devoid of gender markers but occassionaly I'll be reading and come across something and my mind says, "Aha!"  I'll pronounce it female or male and then flip to the byline at the end or beginning of the story.  I can't offhand give you a list of things that clue me into gender but I seem to be pretty good at guessing.  Some obvious words are "cute" and "pretty"...words that most guys don't use.  Particularly annoying to me is the word "cute."  It has always seemed to me that women overuse it.  I'll be in a store and hear women say, "this is a cute dress, cute shoes, cute blouse, cute car, cute guy."  Can't women come up with other words?!  I don't mind "cute" being used to describe little babies or kids because, well, most of them are "cute."

By the way, girls "giggle" and guys "chuckle."

Teri Anne

^*chortle* that they do.

An that is actually one of the things that prompted someone to ask what the hell sex I was in RL while I was playing a MUD... My Char was male and entirely because my char (a Wemic--half man half lion -- centaur like -- creature) giggled. ^*shrug*

I very rarely have chuckled personally as I normally giggle. (Patterned after a mega cute giggle bear my mother had multiple years ago.) In fact, I very rarely laugh... I giggle. (=

^*giggles*

[edit]Engrish hard![/edit]

I used to work in publishing, it was interesting, but I also learned to hate the falsehoods that went on.

I had several women authors who would use "male" names when they wrote books designed for boys.  They felt that boys would not read books written by women.  Just for the record, I didn't know of any men using women's names for the same reason (that doesn't mean there weren't any).

And so many books that have "big" names people as the authors weren't written by them, they usually have someone else write it and just put their name on the book.

Sarah

Sarah,

Actually, there are a number of men who write romance novels under female pen names.  I learned this from a girlfriend of mine who has been to a number of romance-writer conferences.

Teri Anne, I have some female students who don't giggle, they belly-laugh; usually over the simplest & dumbest joke.  (Neutrons have no charge - they're cash only.)  Ed McMahon would be proud!

Chaunte

I think I may be a little out of my depth here :) as the English language is not my strong point, I can barely spell :)  However one thing that I've noticed is that there are certain words used in emails that are believed to be female, usually in the signature.  Some of these are:

Hugs,
Giggles,
Kisses

What do I know, I said I was out of my depth :)

Chuckle = Chuckle \Chuc"kle\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Chuckled; p. pr. & vb.
     n. Chuckling.] [From 1st Chuck.]
     1. To call, as a hen her chickens; to cluck. [Obs.] --Dryden.
        [1913 Webster]

Giggle = Giggle \Gig"gle\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Giggled; p. pr. & vb. n.
     Giggling.] [Akin to gaggle: cf. OD. ghichelen, G. kichern.]
     To laugh with short catches of the breath or voice; to laugh
     in a light, affected, or silly manner; to titter with
     childish levity.     [1913 Webster]

Some would believe that these words are commonly used by GG's however I've not had one email yet from a GG that contains these words or spoken with one who does.

May be I'm off the mark but I tend to agree a little with Teri Anne.  Women generally do tend to use the softer (for want of a better word) and more descriptive terms.

Maybe this link will help:

http://www.republicoft.com/index.php/archives/2005/10/04/just-like-a-woman/

Steph

I think some wonderful mens books have been written by females and likewise with the other. Men tend to use words like hows it going and check you later and in Australia they use mate a lot (some women do too) I think men think in a way as to portray what they want instead of what they can do for others. The written word is so hard to figure out, although I agree the softer the word the more chance it comes from a female.

Sara.

Quote from: Sara on February 03, 2006, 09:54:32 PM
I think men think in a way as to portray what they want instead of what they can do for others. The written word is so hard to figure out, although I agree the softer the word the more chance it comes from a female.

Sara.

Sara,

I think you may have come upon a truism.  Thank you.

Chaunte

re: Style that describes the author's gender:

I've noticed is that, when women write with a pen, the letters tend to be rounder in shape.  Men's handwritting seems to have sharper angles.  As I transitioned, I tried to make my letter shapes rounder, lol.  'Course, women physically are a bit rounder and curvier, too.  And the clothes accentuate that.  I remember that when I dressed en homme, it was always a puzzle to me why men's clothing seemed to want men to look like a box.  Baggy squared off pants -- Ugh!

Teri Anne

Would it be too presumptous to suggest that we all read the same pair of short stories or novelettes, one by a male author and one by a female whose writing styles we can then compare?

I think that might be fun.  Any suggestions?

BTW - I've just started reading Little Women by Louisa May Alcott.  In the first chapter Jo is identified as always wanting to be a boy.  I asked my wife (Little Women is one of her favorites), "Why didn't you tell me that Jo was TG?"

helen

Style in this case doesn't refer to clothing.  When I started this thread, I was trying to learn what speach and word patterns define the gender of the author.

Chaunte

I'm inclined to think that book/newspaper/magazine editors (and copy editors) will edit toward a gender-neutral style (or as they call the "AP style" in reporting) to keep any gender bias out of the text. But on the other hand, fiction might be left alone. But its interesting . . . I've never given author gender a thought when reading stuff . . . I just read. I'm not sure I'd be able to accurately identify an author's sex based on something I just read. Maybe I'm fixed on what is said rather than how its said.

          This is over simplified but women include feelings while men prefer to mainly write about actions. Men are more forceful, they tell how it is. Women write about their views and suggest how it might be.

At least this is my view on how it may be.   ;D


beth

Sorry, Chaunte, for leading others off the thread and into clothing.  I got into the idea of curves and let it go a bit too far.

Getting back to the thread, I notice that men sometimes fear describing men as being "handsome" or "muscular."  There's too much homophobia in our society for them to do that, I suppose.  Women have no stigma or hangups about talking of handsome men or beautiful women.

I'll try to be more observant when I read the newspaper as to what it is that makes me notice gender.  Generally, when I flip to see the author, it's because I think it's a woman author.  As I've said, I'm often correct.  Men tend to write in a more gender-neutral manner, from what I've observed, offering less clues.

Teri Anne

I'm sorry too Chaunte for going off track. I promise to stick to the topic in future. I got excited about clothes which is not hard for a girl to do.

Teri Anne, I Just realized what you meant about "men sometimes fear describing men as being "handsome or muscular"" I thought we were off on another strange forbidden area of this topic but you are so right men do have problems with their feelings and being able to put into words about ones own or anothers sensuality especially if it has to do with the same sex.

Anyone know of any books written by males that are sensual and or emotional???

Sara.

Kimberly's moderator NOTE: For reference the two posts that got side tracked by clothes now reside in Teri Anne's new topic relating to that subject entitled, "Male Versus Female Clothing (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2297.0.html)"

I was told, a number of times, that I had a femme speaking and writing manner.  I could not ever figure out why that assessment was made but my research (very briefly) into the subject led me to what was the number one indicator:  men tend to use contractions quite a bit and women tend not to use them.  I do forget where I ran across that and for all I know it may have since gone the way of the dodo.  However, I (and others) have noticed that I do not use contractions all that often.  Strangley enough I type contractions more than I speak them.

Hmmm, Data didn't use contractions. Does that make him a transdroid.  >:D

Cassie

Quote from: Cassandra Anna Hefton on March 01, 2006, 06:13:40 PM
Hmmm, Data didn't use contractions. Does that make him a transdroid.  >:D

Cassie

If you ever saw the episode "A Fist Full of Datas," you would know that you are correct!   :icon_evil_laugh:

Chaunte

What would " Orlando " tell us about Virginia Woolf ? I finished it last week and I´m no literary critic...I´m sure someone ( everyone  :D ) out there read the book...

I ran into an article relating to this while doing a quick search:
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=745652003

Personal pronouns is one point they they mention, and now that I think of it, I remember have a very tough time of forcing myself not to use 'you' and 'I' in formal writing because it left the text a rather awkward and cold in my opinion... and I was always puzzled why it would get a decent grade. That's what gives all sorts of scientific and technical writing that especially dry and impersonal feel I suppose, and that's all I get to write these days.

bringing up this old topic... ehem *cough*anyways...

just found the gender genie and its weird how it recognizes the gender of someone through words i never even tought of as being female.

I inserted a story ive been writing and... wow, how happy it made me when it said that it was mostly female! :D sure sure, its unreliable, dont base your transition on it, yadda yadda, but its one of those things that make me smile and be happy.

so i went on and started inserting texts written by different people and its amazing how accurate that thing is (of course, the text has to be long)

Great, another thing to stress about, being "outed" by my writings  ;)

Quote from: Anaya on June 15, 2007, 12:01:52 PM
just found the gender genie and its weird how it recognizes the gender of someone through words i never even tought of as being female.

Hey, that's pretty cool!!! I just tried it...

Of course had it said I was male, I'd be posting about what a waste of time it is ;)

I fed it 10,000 words from my journal...

~Kate~

Based on the story I put on this site, it said I was a girl...but an older says I am male. Typical confused results :) I'll think more about it later. I wrote my new story from a female perspective and that probably has something to do with it.

Sara:

QuoteAnyone know of any books written by males that are sensual and or emotional???

Wilbur Smith once wrote this love story that was probably the best book he has ever written, and I'm really really not the kid that likes love stories, so that's saying a lot. I've forgotten what the title is but it's a story about a really handsome fighter pilot who gets terribly disfigured in a crash. He's in love with and marrying this woman who is really beautiful, but lives in a war-torn country and ends up losing her sight. Before she marries him, of course. So now you have the gist of the story (lol sort of) and if you ever see a book by him with a similar read-up, there you go.