Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Here at Southern Comfort I just met someone who was one of the first women to have surgery in the United States.  Her surgery was at Johns Hopkins in 1960!!!!!

quite interesting

That is really cool. Imagine the stories she could tell about the experience and the time in general.

She must be a very strong woman.

Correction on the date.  Her surgery was in 1966, not 1960 but she was still one of the first to have surgery in the U.S.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Jorgensen

Yes. 1966 sounds about right. Are you at liberty to say any more about her. Did she have insights that she said were ok to share. Most everyone in 1966 was going to Casablanca to get SRS. It wasn't until 3 years later that Biber started doing them in the USA. Very rare person.

Quote from: Christine_Hart on October 03, 2016, 05:53:51 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Jorgensen

Yes. When her story broke in all the major newspapers in 1953, a whole generation of us knew there was hope! It could be done! It was like Yeager breaking the sound barrier, except for trans people, she broke a barrier "through which they said no one could pass."

Quote from: Christine_Hart on October 03, 2016, 05:53:51 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Jorgensen

Christine Jorgensen's surgery was in Denmark in the early 50's, this person's surgery was in 1966 at Johns Hopkins, one of the earliest surgeries in the United States.

Quote from: Virginia Hall on October 03, 2016, 05:57:46 PM
Yes. 1966 sounds about right. Are you at liberty to say any more about her. Did she have insights that she said were ok to share. Most everyone in 1966 was going to Casablanca to get SRS. It wasn't until 3 years later that Biber started doing them in the USA. Very rare person.

Virginia, I didn't get to talk to her near as much as I wanted but did learn some interesting things about that time.  I didn't ask the name of her surgeon but it was most likely Belt.  She was a model at one time and those who have seen her portfolio said she was gorgeous.  Of course she is elderly now but still quite spry.  She was married for many years and lost her husband a few months ago.   One of the first things required to transition back then was to go to school to become a hairdresser so they would have a trade with which to earn a living.  Another, they were sent to charm school to learn how to be a "proper" lady.  Things like sit up straight perched on the edge of your chair with your ankles crossed, hands folded in your lap.  Imagine what the gatekeeping was like back then compared to now.  How many of us would have, could have qualified for transition and surgery back then? 

I started transitioning in the early 1970s, so what you are saying is right on. In those days getting clocked (or spooked?) could lead to some unfortunate outcomes. Violence against trans people was quite acceptable. remember, she transitioned before Stonewall.

Personally, I went through some of the charm school stuff on my own nickel. In the Stanford program, patients were supposed to make a break, at least temporarily, with all people who knew them from before because there was a "lobster effect" which means folks tried to pull them back into the "tank." And, yes, everyone transitioning talked about "the beauty contest" where the all-important letters could be withheld or even reportedly that surgeons were reluctant to do surgery on someone who was not hot. The dark joke was, "you have to give the doc a hard-on before he'll sign off." Sometimes that was literally true, alas.

Quote from: BeverlyAnn on October 03, 2016, 05:25:50 PM
Correction on the date.  Her surgery was in 1966, not 1960 but she was still one of the first to have surgery in the U.S.

That date was giving me trouble because I saw something in the news paper about 1963 or 1964 where John Hopkins had just opened their gender program. It was then that I knew treatment was possible and I had a name for myself. Early in the program I suspect their weren't many surgeries because people were still checking off the requirements of the program. It's very possible she was one of the very first to complete all of the program requirements and get surgery.

Quote from: Dena on October 03, 2016, 06:47:35 PM
That date was giving me trouble because I saw something in the news paper about 1963 or 1964 where John Hopkins had just opened their gender program. It was then that I knew treatment was possible and I had a name for myself. Early in the program I suspect their weren't many surgeries because people were still checking off the requirements of the program. It's very possible she was one of the very first to complete all of the program requirements and get surgery.

That was my hearing the day I was introduced to her.  In the noise of the lobby, I heard 1960 instead of '66.

Quote from: BeverlyAnn on October 03, 2016, 06:24:58 PMOne of the first things required to transition back then was to go to school to become a hairdresser so they would have a trade with which to earn a living.  Another, they were sent to charm school to learn how to be a "proper" lady.  Things like sit up straight perched on the edge of your chair with your ankles crossed, hands folded in your lap.

You know, I might not mind that, though as you said, more gatekeeping: being a crazy person, I might not have gotten through many gates...

Quote from: Virginia Hall on October 03, 2016, 06:39:28 PM
I started transitioning in the early 1970s, so what you are saying is right on. In those days getting clocked (or spooked?) could lead to some unfortunate outcomes. Violence against trans people was quite acceptable. remember, she transitioned before Stonewall.

Personally, I went through some of the charm school stuff on my own nickel. In the Stanford program, patients were supposed to make a break, at least temporarily, with all people who knew them from before because there was a "lobster effect" which means folks tried to pull them back into the "tank." And, yes, everyone transitioning talked about "the beauty contest" where the all-important letters could be withheld or even reportedly that surgeons were reluctant to do surgery on someone who was not hot. The dark joke was, "you have to give the doc a hard-on before he'll sign off." Sometimes that was literally true, alas.

Virginia, please share with us anything you care to.  Our younger people need to know our history and what gone before that got us to where we are now.

Quote from: BeverlyAnn on October 03, 2016, 08:38:39 PM
Virginia, please share with us anything you care to.  Our younger people need to know our history and what gone before that got us to where we are now.

I will add one story to underscore the progress. An MTF friend in the early 1970s tried to qualify for a gender program. The therapist (F) asked her about her sexual experiences with men. She was in her very early 20s and said she had none. The therapist more or less told her she had to do it. She did. She hated it. She reported that back. She was thrown out of the program on the spot.

This was in the era before AIDS.

It would take her 20 years, a marriage, and kids, before she went back to give it a try. She lost the marriage and kids, but got SRS and FFS. And this was not an isolated case. In my own experience I was asked why I had not had sex with a guy, pre-op. I said it was impossible for me to do that with someone I did not love and literally use them regardless.

The huge bias was that SRS was only for heteronormative, young, unmarried, straight-acting M2Fs--people who the doctors "liked."

My first therapist admitted he really didn't know how to treat me and he suggested I find a hooker and give sex a try as I might like it. As I am asexual and still a virgin, you know where that suggestion went. My second one thought I appeared to masculine to transition and he was from the UCLA gender program. I guess I proved him wrong. At least the third time I found somebody who threw all the stereotypes out the window and as long as you had HRT, RLE, facial hair removal and were of a sound mind, you would receive surgery.