Susan's Place Transgender Resources

My thirty-ish older two adult children were in town for a family event, and I took the opportunity to have The Talk with them today.

Just to make things interesting, I had previously been explicitly forbidden by my spouse from revealing anything about my true nature.  I was under strict instructions to repress myself, present only as male, and never discuss my being a transsexual person with them.

Oops.   ::)

I originally planned to go over this with both in the evening after my spouse had gone to bed (8:00 PM as usual).  My daughter was going to be out overnight at an old friend's though, so I decided to tell her when the opportunity presented itself and then tell my son later.

When my spouse headed upstairs with my son to chat, I took the opportunity to talk to my daughter at once.  We closed the guest room door, and I told her I had something important to tell her that my spouse had forbidden me to talk about, but I felt she had to know. 

First, I am not dying.  I don't have a fatal disease, nor am I running away with someone.  I do have a medical, psychological, and ethical problem I wanted to tell her about.  I told her about my depression and anxiety, culminating in planning a suicide last March.  I told her that I had called a help line, gotten treatment first from a general psych, then was referred to a specialist.  The specialist worked with me and after a few months sent me to see an endocrinologist, who ordered tests and an MRI, confirming a problem that was treatable.

Then I described my prenatal DES exposure, and how it had likely 'flipped' certain genes off and on in my development somewhere around the 12th week of pregnancy.  My mom had told me about my exposure about 10 years ago, and I connected the dots this summer.  I showed her my finger digit lengths, and compared them with hers and later my son's.  (The 2nd and fourth digit lengths are identical on my hands, a female marker, rather than obviously different lengths on my son's hand.)  I described my childhood in general terms, that I didn't start puberty until I had testosterone injections, the effects on me, and how the local priest convinced me I was 'cured' as long as I avoided impure thoughts.

I talked about how, being 'cured', I went off to college, met my spouse, got married, and eventually after infertility treatment managed to conceive my son and daughters.  I went over what I called the 'noise' in my head, how it got worse over the years, eventually driving me to suicidal depression. I described how radically this was improved with HRT, and went over what it was doing to me.  I told her about the physical changes from HRT that were happening, and how I found that I liked it, but I needed to tell them what was going on before the changes became too obvious.  I told her that the medical results showed that I was technically an intersex person resulting from chemical exposure, which meant I am a sort of transgender person.  Because I have sought medical intervention to alter myself in some way, via HRT in my case, I am technically a transsexual person.  I am still attracted to women.  "Daddy isn't gay.  Daddy is a lesbian."

My daughter immediately wanted to know what my pronouns were!  OK, she's had some experience with us folks before in her job. She was incredibly open and accepting, which had me crying. (It still had me crying.  I'm getting the keyboard wet.)

And that's when my spouse walked in on us.  She was furious, and took me aside.  "You know I didn't want you saying anything about THIS!"  "I'm sorry that you are so upset, but I had to tell them.  I can't keep repressing and hiding this, and they deserve to know before they start wondering what is happening to Daddy."  Oh, this repeated over and over, different variations on the same theme.  Apparently she wanted me to keep this secret until I got better, or was over this phase, because it makes her uncomfortable.  I said that would make a fine epitaph. "At least he didn't make me uncomfortable."

She than forbade me from telling her relatives, her sister, brother, or mother.  (A little too late.  Her sister knows I'm getting medical treatment for some sort of neuro-endocrine issue. As in "Why do you have Estrodiol patches in your medicine cabinet?"  The prescription packages are made out in my name, not my spouses...  ;D )

My son wanted to know what the fuss was about and why my spouse was so upset.  She told him to ask me, so I went through this all with him.  Since he is Christian, although NOT an evangelical or fundamentalist, I finished up with the ethical delimma as to whether I should hide or go forward, couched in terms of the Parable of the Talents.  I've gone through that in the Christianity area before and won't repeat it here.

We continued conversing about this a little while, than I fixed dinner and my som and I chatted about other things.  We finished the evening streaming old "Office' episodes with my spouse and I on opposite ends of the couch, son in the middle, and the two of us laughing together while my spouse sulked and poked at her phone on her end.

Tomorrow we have a big event with the extended family.  I'm sure my spouse thinks it's ruined already, and is cursing my existance. 

So, I may be living on my own and going full time fairly soon...

So it goes.  So it goes.

I think you did the right thing.  Good for you!  When it comes to immediate family members, it's not good to hide such big secrets, at least not for long.

I honestly believe in the old adage that "the truth will set you free". It took me too long to share the truth with my Ex, which I regret deeply. What we choose to do about that truth is in our power, and how others react to it is in theirs, but it is the truth.

Way to go, Michelle.  It is much better to have the talk you did, on your own inititative, than to have the "Dad, why do you have boobs?" talk.

Thanks.  I absolutely wanted to tell them before they noticed anything and started asking questions, in particular asking my spouse.  She would be unlikely to provide accurate information, and I really don't want willful ignorance to be taken as the 'truth'.  That would cause irreparable damage, unfortunately what I am seeing with my youngest daughter.

In other news, my spouse still isn't talking to me.  When my son leaves tomorrow night I have a feeling that I'll be moving into the office where he is sleeping.

Congratulations Michelle, I bet you feel better.

Quote from: Michelle_P on October 01, 2016, 09:46:12 AM
In other news, my spouse still isn't talking to me.  When my son leaves tomorrow night I have a feeling that I'll be moving into the office where he is sleeping.

I have a thought. After you spent the effort rebuilding the bed and may have paid for the new workings that go in it, why are you moving into the den? There is a spot along side you and your wife is free to come and go as she pleases.

J would just like to say for one thing that I've never been married much less have had any kind of relationship in 40 years so what I say needs to be taken with a shovel full of salt. I would jist like to make the plea for not demonizing the SO for something that wasn't in the bargain when the life commitment was made. Yea in the end we live by our undeniable truths , but those truths are equally valid for each partners individual truths.

Michelle,

Your courage is inspiring.  It sounds like a win for all parties except your wife.  I feel for you and wish you the best of luck with the remainder of your extended family.

Congratuations on making a big step forward.

Steph

Michelle,
   I do believe in respecting the feelings of SO's. It is tough for them to deal with such a drastic change that they did not ask for. That said, I think you have every right to tell your adult children about your "truth." It is about your relationship with them and not her embarrassment (or whatever her motivation.) Three cheers for you being honest with them. It was an artificial status quo that you felt like you couldn't take any more. Of course, progress sometimes comes with a price as I'm sure you are aware.
Moni

Quote from: stephaniec on October 01, 2016, 05:23:37 PM
J would just like to say for one thing that I've never been married much less have had any kind of relationship in 40 years so what I say needs to be taken with a shovel full of salt. I would jist like to make the plea for not demonizing the SO for something that wasn't in the bargain when the life commitment was made. Yea in the end we live by our undeniable truths , but those truths are equally valid for each partners individual truths.

Hi, Stephanie!

I probably wasn't clear enough there.  The issue with my wife was that she was forbidding me to be honest and open with my own children so that she could avoid some discomfort, and could be the sole source of any information passed along to my children when they eventually noticed that something was changing with Dad.

Asking me to further repress myself and avoid such basic communications with my own children interfered with my own healing.  My repression is what produced much of my problems with excessive emotional detachment in relating to people, that is, it made me one cold S.O.B.

Any information provided by her comes from a person who is willfully ignorant of transgender issues.  She has repeatedly refused to look at printed information provided by my medical providers and gender therapist.  She has repeatedly refused joint counseling sessions or solo sessions with the therapist.  She has decided that the therapists, having dealt with transgender persons, will be prejudiced against her, and therefor meeting with one would be meeting with someone that has an agenda against her.

Having this person be the sole conduit for information on me to my children would be bad.

I understand that she is both shocked to discover that her spouse is not what she thought he was, and feels betrayed by my keeping such a secret from her for almost 40 years.  Yes, I made mistakes. 

When we were married, I had completed testosterone injections to treat me, and had been counseled that I would be fine as long as I avoided impure thoughts.  (Nothing like advice on sexuality from a professional eunuch.)  I thought I was fixed. 

I was wrong.  I hid what I was for the sake of my wife and children, repressing everything until I decided that suicide was a perfectly reasonable way to ease my discomfort.  I can't do anything about that now, and have to look forward at what can be done now. 

Unfortunately, I'm aware of the results from that big 2011 study that collected statistics on transgender folks.  In my age bracket, 75% of marriages fail when one partner comes out of the closet as transgender.   We older folks tend to be set in our ways, and don't respond well to changes.

We just had our 39th anniversary.  I'm not sure I can continue to repress myself to meet her rules and survive to our 40th anniversary.  Something has to give, and I would prefer not to commit suicide even if it would ease her discomfort.

Quote from: Dena on October 01, 2016, 10:12:29 AM
I have a thought. After you spent the effort rebuilding the bed and may have paid for the new workings that go in it, why are you moving into the den? There is a spot along side you and your wife is free to come and go as she pleases.

My therapist and I had talked about this.  If I'm living out of my office/bedroom, I can at least close the door and be myself in private, without threatening my wife and daughter with the scary transwoman.  One of the house rules is that I am not permitted to present as myself, but must cross-dress male, no makeup or hair, at all times.  I Must Not Be Seen.  :P

This ties in with the "I'm home" text messages I've gone over before, and the need to schedule my departures so that they can sequester themselves in a Trans-proof shelter without disturbing interactions ("Ready or not, here I come!") while I move from the master bath to the garage on my way out.

  Currently when I am out, I stay out as long as possible.   Home is no longer a welcoming or safe environment for me.

I meant no harm and my life has been completely devoid of relationships and children so I lack in informative knowledge in these type of situations. I've never had to deal with working through a relationship with this issue. I constantly think about what I would do, but I always come to the conclusion that I'm glad I never had to.

Quote from: Dena on October 01, 2016, 10:12:29 AM
I have a thought. After you spent the effort rebuilding the bed and may have paid for the new workings that go in it, why are you moving into the den? There is a spot along side you and your wife is free to come and go as she pleases.

so true, whole heartedly agree


sad to say, she needs to become accepting or the marriage ends. that situation is totally toxic for you. i had to make the decision regarding my marriage of 16years. we i married my wife, she knew i had been on hrt but stopped for various reasons. i told her everything, we got married and she slowly 'forgot' many things and it become more about her.. and i lost myself along the way. kind of scary when you go to a therapist session and the ask you "who are you?" and i simply couldnt answer that question. the only thing i knew is i am a women trapped in the wrong body (like many others).. but am i giving person, etc.. anyway thats beside the point here.. needless to say, as more trans documentaries, 60min shows etc about trans appeared on TV the more negative she became and vile words. it felt like i was being battered, when i was working away from home i bought myself clothes etc and hid them between trips.. eventually things got so bad, i came within 2 feet of jumping infront of 100km/h train that was going past my trainstation i(here in vic, thats normal for vlines). the only thing that stopped me was a person yelling to get someones attention and i stopped to look who he was yelling at, if not for that i would not be here today.. and thats when i made the decision to talk to someone. i also spent 3 days on my own thinking and looking back and everything and made the decision to end my marriage. i knew that if she new why i was ending it or that i plan to transition again she would destroy me anyway she can.she has since moved back overseas ot new zealand with my 5 kids.. i miss my children soo much, but i am alot  calmer now and centred and moving forward. its been good, sad and tough all rolled into one.. but everyone of my family members have noted i seem calmer and slightly happier..

but that kind of control she has on you is not a good thing.. she needs to be accepting.. you gave 39+years of your life being what everyone else wanted you to be. now its time for the real you to shine and grow.

I am a very strong advocate of a 50/50 split. Far too many TG partners fall over and give their property and entitlements away to their detriment. You will need to re establish your life if the relationship goes down the drain, as does your (ex) partner.

No matter how you feel try and take guilt out of the equation and be cool calm and collected in the face of non-understanding, pain and anger. This is not an easy time for anyone.

Hello Michelle,

What a mixed emotion story! Wow, coming out to both kids, neat. It must have been so affirming to see your daughter getting it! You didn't mention how well your son bought into it. Then the conflagration with your wife.

I think that I can relate to your story and situation. While being far luckier with my wife fully buying into Anne, I have lost those I felt that I needed and I have a son that we do not dare coming out to for fear of making a broken relationship even more difficult.

I guess that I just feel a lot of pain and am filled with compassion for you. Just a few days ago you posted such an up story about a shopping trip and the total validation that you got from that affirming sales gal. I can not imaging the pain you must feel taking that kind of elation back home to be hidden from those so important to you. You suggest that you may be single soon, but that also must weigh so heavy on you after spending so many years working and giving so much to nurture both your family and the relationship. This is such a tough story. I do not believe that anyone can give valid console but I do wish you well and will pray for you and your family. Whatever the outcome, you have shown so much strength in developing Michelle and balancing keeping your family for so long while at the same time maintaining sanity and still being able to rejoice in the magical moments you have told us about Michelle. You have the strength and heart to survive and grow from this, which ever way it goes! Please keep us updated.

Anne

Hi Michelle,

You are very strong and every bit have a right to discuss your gender with your children. I am sorry you are going through this in an unsupportive home.

Quote from: Cindy on October 02, 2016, 03:39:37 AM
I am a very strong advocate of a 50/50 split. Far too many TG partners fall over and give their property and entitlements away to their detriment. You will need to re establish your life if the relationship goes down the drain, as does your (ex) partner.

No matter how you feel try and take guilt out of the equation and be cool calm and collected in the face of non-understanding, pain and anger. This is not an easy time for anyone.

Oh, absolutely, Cindy!  If we break up, it will be governed by California law, so the division of assets is strictly governed by state law as a 50/50 split of community property.  The only recovery in the event she goes for the 'cruelty' option would be to claw back my electrolysis expenses, and perhaps part of my wardrobe, the total of which would be a pittance compared to the legal costs.  Our best recourse would be to work through a mediator.  I think I can convince her to do that if I show her how much the 'legal revenge' path would actually cost.

The financial setback would roll my assets back to about where they were when I decided to retire, and at that point the assets were sufficient to cover my wife and I, along with two students in college, one a private school back East, as well as her law school. (Successful, I might add.  She's passed the bar and is licensed in both New York and California.)  As things stand the assets I would have following separation and divorce would be more than adequate for my to live my life and cover medical treatment.   I'm very fortunate in this.

Quote from: VeronicaMJ on October 02, 2016, 03:03:43 AM
but that kind of control she has on you is not a good thing.. she needs to be accepting.. you gave 39+years of your life being what everyone else wanted you to be. now its time for the real you to shine and grow.

Yes, this is pretty much my thinking.  I've been putting everyone else ahead of me my whole adult life, but now I feel that I have some obligation to take care of myself.  The alternative is an early grave, with the epitaph "At least he didn't make us uncomfortable."  :P

I don't like making others uncomfortable, but hey, like the old protest march chant:  "We're queer.  We're here.  Get used to it."

Quote from: Anne Blake on October 02, 2016, 09:26:13 AM
Hello Michelle,

What a mixed emotion story! Wow, coming out to both kids, neat. It must have been so affirming to see your daughter getting it! You didn't mention how well your son bought into it. Then the conflagration with your wife.

Oh, my daughter had me crying.  She was so wonderful.   My son seems to be pretty accepting.  He sat right there talking to me about this and other things for quite a while.  He's a male, more reserved and inexpressive than we are, but I think he understands.  He certainly understands that I was born this way, and didn't have a choice.  At one point I compared our hands, showing him the equal lengths of my index and ring fingers, compared against his very male ones.  He even commented on the obvious thinness of my hands and wrist.   (Some things the radiologist and endocrinologist picked up on as well.)

I wish my wife could be more accepting, but she didn't sign up for this surprise, and is certainly not willing to find herself in a lesbian marriage.  She's very concerned about the social damage if her friends find out, and the medical stress if her 85 year  old mother (with her ancient social psych degree and decades of social work experience!) were to find out.  (I bet she'd handle it well, but I really don't want to put someone so frail to that test!)

Some of this may be blaming herself somehow for 'failing', as she is very insecure.  I'd like her to see a therapist, any therapist, but am concerned about the damage that could occur from a therapist ignorant of transgender issues and not interested in doing the needed research, that is, just advising my wife off the top of her head.  Unethical behavior, to be sure, but we've seen stories with bad therapists here in the past.

Quote from: Anne Blake on October 02, 2016, 09:26:13 AMI guess that I just feel a lot of pain and am filled with compassion for you. Just a few days ago you posted such an up story about a shopping trip and the total validation that you got from that affirming sales gal. I can not imaging the pain you must feel taking that kind of elation back home to be hidden from those so important to you. You suggest that you may be single soon, but that also must weigh so heavy on you after spending so many years working and giving so much to nurture both your family and the relationship. This is such a tough story. I do not believe that anyone can give valid console but I do wish you well and will pray for you and your family. Whatever the outcome, you have shown so much strength in developing Michelle and balancing keeping your family for so long while at the same time maintaining sanity and still being able to rejoice in the magical moments you have told us about Michelle. You have the strength and heart to survive and grow from this, which ever way it goes! Please keep us updated.

Anne

Thank you, Anne.  Yes, I love being myself, out, and open.  That has a dark side, though.  When I come home it is getting harder and harder to crawl back into that cell and slam the door closed on myself.  Having to present as the sad old man my wife and youngest daughter living with me want to see is painful, and I'm not doing a very good job of it any more.  I love my wife and daughter, my whole family, but this is becoming too much to bear any more.

The boobs and traces of eyeliner, my little black sneakers and GV jeans are all bits of rebellion against this.  My moving more of my life into that office and being myself a little longer in private is really just more of this. I'm largely out in public, and I really don't have friends, just acquaintances with similar interests, so I'm not terribly worried about discovery.  I'm president of one local organization, sort of by default as nobody else would take the position and I wanted to keep it going.  I suppose they'll all be getting a surprise soon. (Yes, I'm working out how to handle it.)

I've gone through much of my public exposure on the web, replacing my old male first name with "M" and removing my old picture.  At some point soon I'll go through and change the first name to Michelle, and put up a new avatar like the one I use here.  I need to go over this with the gender therapist to avoid any potholes in the path that I've overlooked.

Once I'm so far out, hiding from my in-laws and my wife's friends won't really be very effective any more as the rumors will be running in our little town.  I suspect that is where things will end, and the separation and legal fuss will start.

At least my two older children know and hopefully will understand why things are falling apart.   I so hate to hurt other people, but I don't really see a way around it.  Whether I come out, or try to stay hidden until I commit suicide or have an unfortunate driving accident, I will hurt others, just as badly either way.  I think I prefer to live, even if it is socially unacceptable and I make some folks uncomfortable.

I'm here.  I'm queer.  Get used to it.

Quote from: Michelle_P on October 02, 2016, 12:47:52 PM
Yes, this is pretty much my thinking.  I've been putting everyone else ahead of me my whole adult life, but now I feel that I have some obligation to take care of myself.  The alternative is an early grave, with the epitaph "At least he didn't make us uncomfortable."  :P

I don't like making others uncomfortable, but hey, like the old protest march chant:  "We're queer.  We're here.  Get used to it."
.......
At least my two older children know and hopefully will understand why things are falling apart.   I so hate to hurt other people, but I don't really see a way around it.  Whether I come out, or try to stay hidden until I commit suicide or have an unfortunate driving accident, I will hurt others, just as badly either way.  I think I prefer to live, even if it is socially unacceptable and I make some folks uncomfortable.

I'm here.  I'm queer.  Get used to it.

many can relate to giving too putting others first and yourself last...you do that so often one looses who you are. dont look down the negative road of suicide.. that is not the only way, the only way is to split if things get that bad and be who you have been all your life.

I hate making poeple uncomfortable too, i hate hurting them and just want them to be happy in all things..

Wow, congratulations Michelle!! I'm sure that must've felt great  ;D

I'm sorry about the difficulties with your wife. It's a difficult situation for sure.. but you entitled to be yourself and be honest, and I don't think she should have any authority to tell you what you can or cannot tell your GROWN children. I don't think it's healthy or OK for anyone to have to give up themselves or be who they are not for the sake of preserving a relationship.

Thank you, everyone.  I so appreciate the support the folks here give each other.  I try to chip in wherever I can help, even a little, and sometimes when I need a little... Well, you're all just amazing.

I've got an hour with my gender therapist coming up the day after tomorrow, and a group session that includes folks I've become friends with the day after that, and then a highly therapeutic session with my electrologist, who has given me amazing advice and support.

I'll get through the week, and the weeks ahead. 

I'll be going out more and more as myself, for day trips to museums, shopping (of course!), movies, and just life in general.  I should be fine. 

I expected the weekend's emotional rollercoaster ride and my wife's reaction, and pretty much kept my cool, except for a little estrogen cry.  (Guys have that testosterone stoicism that I could use sometimes.  On the other hand, I now HAVE emotions, which beats being a frozen zombie.)

I'm so very proud of my son and daughter, for being wonderful people, and not flat-out rejecting me.

You could have written my story, word for word. I just had that talk with my kids recently. They took it well. Momma not so much but I think she is starting to come around. Do you have any heart disease or diabetes? That's what took me so long to decide to come out. I take so many meds that interact and estrogen causes clots. But because I have a bad valve I have to take warfarin or "blood thinner" or "rat poison". My kids are so amazing there was not a discouraging word from either one. Good luck on the home front. I can understand why you are willing to leave. Me too, if push comes to shove. Isn't it great to not have all those lies? It appears you too have carried it for a long time and that we are just following the program our brains created in utero. I gave my kids and wife all the info I could find on www.desaction.com and  Now celebrating a month and a half. It has been a lifetime since I've felt this good.

Hi, Dawn!   No, no disease or frailties that kept me from coming out.  I finally hung a label, that I was transgender, on my differences in my early 30s.  I knew I was different starting at age 6-7, I think, when I was disciplined for praying to become a girl.  I repressed myself, faking it to make it, until the anxiety (fear of discovery in all its forms), depression, and dysphoria drove me to plan my suicide early this year.

I'm much better now.

I had hoped to take my secret to the grave to avoid harming anyone, but I wasn't strong enough to do that.  It turns out that I'm actually human!

I've told my wife and children about my DES exposure, that it is unlikely to affect the kids, but it had affected me.  My wife doesn't want to see any information on this or anything related to gender identity.  My son is very curious about the mechanisms involved and the endocrinology.  My older daughter is incredibly sympathetic.

It feels good to finally be honest about this.  There is a little distress involve in the revelation, but it passed quickly on both sides.  The kids are fine. (OK, they're 30 and 32, not really kids.). And yes, I haven't felt this good since I was 14 years old.

Your were always strong, you kept it hidden for decades. That alone takes a strength and a steel spine and a tremendous amount of courage. And you have that in abundance..

From what you have written it seems like the wife can't and won't accept the real whole you. If that's the case it be a good idea to find out if she ever Will and if not then I am sad to say it's time to go your separate ways. It seems like she is counting on the peace keeper (you) to back down and what she says. Too used being in total control and having u bend to her beck and call (evidenced by the forcing u back in the closet). As I said your strong and courage take back control of your life and find out now before things get too bad and u get stuck in a negative loop. And that is destructive in and of itself.

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