Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hello everyone,
I am a post-op transgirl and now dating boys. For the last couple of months I have been dating someone and he seems to be a really nice and caring guy. I can definitely see us getting seriously together, however he doesn't know that I was born in the body of a boy. (I pass well and do not tell my female friends about it either, especially the ones from college). At the moment I am really struggling as to when and how to tell him. I care for him and would like him to know because I feel it is important to know (as I am unable to give birth) but also because I would like him to fully know me instead of having to hide something (transition) that is part of who I am today.

Currently we are planning our next dates and everything is going really well. I think I am even falling in love. At our last date we made out on the sofa and things did get sexual (no intercourse though). I'd rather have told him before getting sexual, but this is now too late - after kissing it was a little hard to stop and making out just happened...

I am thinking of telling him sooner rather than later, but my question is how do I tell this and when is a good time for it? Should I wait before we are going steady and first get to know each other better and refraining from anything sexual in the  meantime? Or should I just tell him the next time we see each other? I'd also rather tell him in public, in case he gets angry. I have no idea how we would react but I am sure he is not going to expect this, so I might really dissappoint him. And that scares me a lot because maybe he no longer wants to see me afterwards... but.... I really like him!

Maybe some of you have been in the same situation? What would be a good way to disclose this?

Quote from: chocolate97 on October 01, 2016, 05:15:58 PM
Hello everyone,
I am a post-op transgirl and now dating boys. For the last couple of months I have been dating someone and he seems to be a really nice and caring guy. I can definitely see us getting seriously together, however he doesn't know that I was born in the body of a boy. (I pass well and do not tell my female friends about it either, especially the ones from college). At the moment I am really struggling as to when and how to tell him. I care for him and would like him to know because I feel it is important to know (as I am unable to give birth) but also because I would like him to fully know me instead of having to hide something (transition) that is part of who I am today.

Currently we are planning our next dates and everything is going really well. I think I am even falling in love. At our last date we made out on the sofa and things did get sexual (no intercourse though). I'd rather have told him before getting sexual, but this is now too late - after kissing it was a little hard to stop and making out just happened...

I am thinking of telling him sooner rather than later, but my question is how do I tell this and when is a good time for it? Should I wait before we are going steady and first get to know each other better and refraining from anything sexual in the  meantime? Or should I just tell him the next time we see each other? I'd also rather tell him in public, in case he gets angry. I have no idea how we would react but I am sure he is not going to expect this, so I might really dissappoint him. And that scares me a lot because maybe he no longer wants to see me afterwards... but.... I really like him!

Maybe some of you have been in the same situation? What would be a good way to disclose this?

I'm preop and plan on having srs next month. In the past 5 years, I pretty much dated stealth and didn't disclose I was trans 98% of the time. I just liked dating, but I also hated rejection so I just dated really attractive guys that I got along with for about a month and then broke up with them. And kept repeating that cycle. A few guys I told were trans, were surprisingly okay with it and continued to date me. The only problem was my own personal rejection that I had for myself and my body, where I didn't want to be intimate with them even though they were okay with being intimate with me.

And another thing, I know what you feel like, being a passable girl, but most times, guys know. They know were trans. It definitely probably popped into his head, just never said anything because he likes you. I feel that since you are post op and comfortable in your body and you love yourself and it's annoying you that he doesn't know your past, then just be honest and tell him. The worst he can do is not talk to you, and then you'll meet another guy with your beautiful self. But if he is okay with it, you can be intimate and connect with him in a way that's comfortable for the both of you and in a way that HE is familiar with, which ultimately is less of a turn off so to speak.

I hope I helped. Keep me posted? ❤️

Quote from: Aria94 on October 03, 2016, 07:51:28 PM
I'm preop and plan on having srs next month. In the past 5 years, I pretty much dated stealth and didn't disclose I was trans 98% of the time. I just liked dating, but I also hated rejection so I just dated really attractive guys that I got along with for about a month and then broke up with them. And kept repeating that cycle. A few guys I told were trans, were surprisingly okay with it and continued to date me. The only problem was my own personal rejection that I had for myself and my body, where I didn't want to be intimate with them even though they were okay with being intimate with me.

And another thing, I know what you feel like, being a passable girl, but most times, guys know. They know were trans. It definitely probably popped into his head, just never said anything because he likes you. I feel that since you are post op and comfortable in your body and you love yourself and it's annoying you that he doesn't know your past, then just be honest and tell him. The worst he can do is not talk to you, and then you'll meet another guy with your beautiful self. But if he is okay with it, you can be intimate and connect with him in a way that's comfortable for the both of you and in a way that HE is familiar with, which ultimately is less of a turn off so to speak.

I hope I helped. Keep me posted? ❤️

Hi Aria (pretty little liars Aria? ;) )
This is so helpful, thanks a lot for posting and taking the time to read.
But wow you have SRS coming up really soon, you must be really excited?

From what you are saying most guys were okay with you being trans. I wonder, how did you tell them? Was it in a casual way or was there any announcement? Did you tell in public or just at home? Well, it gives me hope that there are accepting guys.

My biggest fear is that he will indeed stop talking to me and will not be interested in me anymore... and as i am falling in love this is sooo hard, and that is why it is such a dilemma for me right now. At least for the next couple of times we will see each other I will try to refrain from getting too physical and when the moment is right tell him.

I am thinking of explaining the dilemma a little too, that I want to be honest because I care but that it is also difficult for me to tell..or would you advice against this way of telling?

Also I am wondering how the boys would know that we are transgender? How can they know? Especially being passable and postop? Or do you mean like unconsciously knowing..but then again, how? This puzzles me a little.

Anyway, thanks again for posting and I will defintely keep you posted ❤

Quote from: Aria94 on October 03, 2016, 07:51:28 PM

. . .  And another thing, I know what you feel like, being a passable girl, but most times, guys know. They know were trans . . .

If they know, why tell? If they don't, why tell?

If you really like the guy then the last thing you want is for him to find out from anybody other than you.  The longer you are together, the more possible that becomes.  Also you don't want to have a relationship with such a big thing unsaid.  How long you wait is up to you but I can only imagine that it would be potentially worse the longer you wait.

I can't tell you how to do this but imagine that I would hope for the best and plan for the worst.  To me that means telling him in person but somewhere public that you can talk by yourselves.  Best of luck.  My heart goes out to you Chocolate.

Quote from: chocolate97 on October 04, 2016, 04:27:25 PM
Hi Aria (pretty little liars Aria? ;) )
This is so helpful, thanks a lot for posting and taking the time to read.
But wow you have SRS coming up really soon, you must be really excited?

From what you are saying most guys were okay with you being trans. I wonder, how did you tell them? Was it in a casual way or was there any announcement? Did you tell in public or just at home? Well, it gives me hope that there are accepting guys.

My biggest fear is that he will indeed stop talking to me and will not be interested in me anymore... and as i am falling in love this is sooo hard, and that is why it is such a dilemma for me right now. At least for the next couple of times we will see each other I will try to refrain from getting too physical and when the moment is right tell him.

I am thinking of explaining the dilemma a little too, that I want to be honest because I care but that it is also difficult for me to tell..or would you advice against this way of telling?

Also I am wondering how the boys would know that we are transgender? How can they know? Especially being passable and postop? Or do you mean like unconsciously knowing..but then again, how? This puzzles me a little.

Anyway, thanks again for posting and I will defintely keep you posted ❤

Hey love. You're welcome. Most guys I told were okay with it. However, one time, I was dating this guy and he was falling for me FAST. We had Ana amazing Valentine's Day and we took pics together and he showed me off. Someone I went to high school with outed me to him and he was upset. He also said that he probably would have been fine with me being trans if I had told him and not someone else.

All the other times, I was always pretty much "The perfect girl" I was sweet, would get little gifts for guys, make them dinner, and be a tease, mostly just make out with them and make them take me out on dates and talk to them on the phone as much as possible. I always come out to them via text and I just did it casually, usually at night. And just say "hey, I've been trans since I was a little kid, and this is me," basically. I didn't get hurt if I got rejected because well... F*** them, basically lol. On to the next loser. I wasn't really having ambitions in dating back then.

I think they were cool with it because I was a) just like any other girl they've been with, b) I was unapologetic in the way I came out and also kind of said it in a way that would make him empathetic towards me

I sometimes got a little too physical. At the end of the day, they can not get mad at you. It's not like you're"tricking" them. In all of my dating cases, the guys approached me, and asked ME out. So obviously they like what they see and they went after it.

My advice for you is if you're going to tell him, tell him in a way that paints you more so as the "victim " or in a way that would make him more empathetic towards you. It also doesn't hurt to remind him that he talked to you. Like "ever since the day you came up to me and  asked me out and we've gotten closer, I want you to know more about me,"

And guys and girls just know. There's always small little signs, every girl isn't 100% passable, that's just the truth and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Even an extremely beautiful trans girl that could have the possibility of getting clocked is still probably a tad bit beautiful than a dis female. Some masculine traits are beautiful and there's nothing wrong with that.

@CrysC

Thanks for the advice and empathy. I am also thinking of telling him in public. We haven't been introduced to each others friends and family so chances for him to find out are not likely but nonetheless, like you said, I want to tell him in public and rather sooner than later. And also before going steady. I think i am kind of waiting for the right moment and also want to make sure he is really liking me so hopefully he won't just walk away because he likes me already :)

@Aria94

I really like your attitude. The unapologethic way while being a little bit of a victim too sounds like a comfortable way of telling. Probably will try that approach too :)

You mention about 'tricking', this was exactly how I felt when having sex while he didn't know. What you are saying is very reassuring and makes me feel a whole less guilty, especially because he was always the one initiating kissing and making out and I liked it for that.

Kinda wished I wasn't trans, because I care about him and he deserves a really nice girl. Hopefully that girl can be me...time will tell.

And you also say that girls and guys just know. Maybe I just don't have enough experience to say the same... i get a feeling that my female friends don't know because they ask about my periods and stuff in a very casuap way, just as they do 'period talk' with the other girls. As for guys I don't know, I obviously don't have a lot of dating experience, but sort of assumed that he doesn't know, because if he does, well then why would he initiate kissing and stuff?

Thanks again for your ideas❤😘

Quote from: Aria94 on October 04, 2016, 07:56:13 PM

. . . every girl isn't 100% passable . . .

Do you include natal women as well? Maybe you are right about your statements. However, in my experience most absolute statements have a way of being found to not be absolutely right. "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Hamlet Act 1 .Sc. 5. 167-8.

The unclockables do exist. Trouble is, you never know when you're looking at one.

Quote from: chocolate97 on October 05, 2016, 04:52:29 PM


Kinda wished I wasn't trans, because I care about him and he deserves a really nice girl. Hopefully that girl can be me...time will tell.

And you in return deserves love and happiness as well. Just because you're trans doesn't make you any less desirable or less worth of love and being loved. You're sweet and please don't place his own feelings and happiness before yours because you're worthy just as much; if not more than, as him

Its a difficult one, I remember when I told my fiance that I was born a boy, it was super nervous.  For me, I had a added presure, because we had actually slept together already. He never even questioned my vagina, the only comment he made.. he loved how tight I was.

But I created that problem, because he was a one night stand that went wrong. We met at a wedding and clicked immediately.. some how it came up that we had both never had a one night stand (technically we still have not).. so we decided why not lets have sex.. because we lived far from each other.

Months later he moved to my town, and we were fixed up by the bride of the wedding we attended. We soon started dating, and I told him when we officially were a couple. I just sat him down and told him, we ended up having a long chat.. almost all night.. he told me at the end of the night... he saw me as a woman and I had all the right lady parts and he was falling in love with me..

So sometimes the band aid approach works.. just rip it off..

Noleen, of course you've had a one night stand if that was the intent at the time, it seems to have been a one night stand gone horribly wrong:-).

OP, If you don't know him well enough to know if he'll be ok then yes, someplace relatively public sounds smartest. If you feel this relationship has legs then letting him know sooner would make sense to me, however as nonbinary or at least non-passing I don't expect to experience this quandary.

Not to derail the thread but, this does beg the question that if it's a one night stand, should I tell the guy?  I'm pretty inclined to say no but I'd have to really know it's the one time thing like I'm single and on travel or something like that. 

I suppose I always figured I should tell a guy before the wild thing but....  maybe not.  I suppose the circumstances drive everything.

Quote from: chocolate97 on October 01, 2016, 05:15:58 PM
Hello everyone,
I am a post-op transgirl and now dating boys. For the last couple of months I have been dating someone and he seems to be a really nice and caring guy. I can definitely see us getting seriously together, however he doesn't know that I was born in the body of a boy. (I pass well and do not tell my female friends about it either, especially the ones from college). At the moment I am really struggling as to when and how to tell him. I care for him and would like him to know because I feel it is important to know (as I am unable to give birth) but also because I would like him to fully know me instead of having to hide something (transition) that is part of who I am today.

Currently we are planning our next dates and everything is going really well. I think I am even falling in love. At our last date we made out on the sofa and things did get sexual (no intercourse though). I'd rather have told him before getting sexual, but this is now too late - after kissing it was a little hard to stop and making out just happened...

I am thinking of telling him sooner rather than later, but my question is how do I tell this and when is a good time for it? Should I wait before we are going steady and first get to know each other better and refraining from anything sexual in the  meantime? Or should I just tell him the next time we see each other? I'd also rather tell him in public, in case he gets angry. I have no idea how we would react but I am sure he is not going to expect this, so I might really dissappoint him. And that scares me a lot because maybe he no longer wants to see me afterwards... but.... I really like him!

Maybe some of you have been in the same situation? What would be a good way to disclose this?

I want to welcome you to the site. I also want to thank you for sharing such a thought provoking question. I would tend to be on the full honesty side. Perhaps that's just my age showing.

I also want to share some links with you. They are mostly welcome information and the rules that govern the site. If you have not had a chance to look through them, please take a moment to read the first several stickies:

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[/quote]

Once again, welcome to Susan's. Look around, ask questions and join in.

With warmth,

Joanna

Quote from: CrysC on October 06, 2016, 10:13:06 PM
Not to derail the thread but, this does beg the question that if it's a one night stand, should I tell the guy?  I'm pretty inclined to say no but I'd have to really know it's the one time thing like I'm single and on travel or something like that. 

I suppose I always figured I should tell a guy before the wild thing but....  maybe not.  I suppose the circumstances drive everything.

If its a one night stand.. I would not tell, he does not need to know.

If the relationship becomes serious,  you will want to tell him. There is a bit of a danger in putting it off too long. It is possible that someone could out you. Also, the longer you put it off, the more he might feel like you were dishonest with him for not telling him sooner.

Look at it like this. Suppose he had an important secret. For example, suppose he had a child or was actually divorced and didn't tell you about it. When would you expect him to tell you about it?

No, a person doesn't need to reveal everything on the first or second date. However, at some point things get serious and people expect honesty. I probably waited too long to tell my husband, when we were dating, but thankfully, he was pretty understanding about it.

If he is right for you, he will accept it. If he doesn't accept it, he isn't right for you.

Good luck,
Rhonda

Quote from: Rhonda Lynn on October 08, 2016, 12:20:24 AM
No, a person doesn't need to reveal everything on the first or second date. However, at some point things get serious and people expect honesty. I probably waited too long to tell my husband, when we were dating, but thankfully, he was pretty understanding about it.

If he is right for you, he will accept it. If he doesn't accept it, he isn't right for you.

Agree 100%, everybody has different experience, I definitely wouldn't disclose on the first few dates, see how the relationship develops, you'll know when the time is right, as Rhonda says ''If he is right for you, he will accept it. If he doesn't accept it, he isn't right for you''
I also waited too long to tell my husband, easy said than done, we instantly clicked, madly in love, I just kept putting it off telling him, things were going so well, why bother, no need, then when he proposed marriage and we get engaged, I finally told him, he was a bit shocked and surprised, he was more angry with himself that he hadn't clocked me, but was grateful for my honesty, we worked it out and eventually got married, he was very understanding and supportive, a wonderful man with a sense of hunour and can be funny about life, I remember on 1 occasion after we got married, he found my credit bank statement, when he saw what I was spending on shoes, clothes, cosmetics, nails and coiffed hairdos, he rolled his eyes and miischievous said  ''well your definitely a woman'' just glad he knows my history, it was a release of a lot of pressure, his family doesn't know, they don't have to, that's another issue, he just doesn't want to go there, that's ok.

It depends on how comfortable and trusting you are in him in the end. I agree it is good to share it with him, but the timing is always the tricky part. For myself this time around the guy new from the start, but the first time I didn't wait very long because for me I wanted to be able to be fully who I am from early on and be open and honest about everything including my past. It was a huge priority to me. I don't regret having told the first guy even though it clearly was a big reason why we broke up. Hugs and good luck
Mariah

Quote from: pretty pauline on October 08, 2016, 02:23:16 PM
[...]
I also waited too long to tell my husband, easy said than done, we instantly clicked, madly in love, I just kept putting it off telling him, things were going so well, why bother, no need,

[...]

it was a release of a lot of pressure, his family doesn't know, they don't have to, that's another issue, he just doesn't want to go there, that's ok.

I did the same thing on putting it off. It never seemed like the right time. Such as difficult thing to do and I liked being just a woman and didn't want to become a "trans" in his eyes. However, once I told him it was a relief. He was perfectly accepting and said that by that point, he liked me so much it just didn't matter.

And that's what I mean about him being right for you or not. If he is able to see past any label or grouping and simply sees you for the person you are, then you have nothing to fear.

I did have a very serious boyfriend who was not able to get past the fact that I was trans. It bothered him very much and after months of dating he broke up with me and it hurt very much. However, I got over it and realize now that it was his problem, his hangup, not mine. I was better off and on Christmas day of the same year I met someone much better - the man who would become my husband.

My husband's family doesn't know either after 23 years. There is no need for them to know.

Quote from: Rhonda Lynn on October 08, 2016, 03:29:50 PM
I did the same thing on putting it off. It never seemed like the right time. Such as difficult thing to do and I liked being just a woman and didn't want to become a "trans" in his eyes.

It's extremely difficult, most men I dated I never told, my first boyfriend was with me pre op and with when I had my srs, but we broke over other issues, he is now married to another woman and has a family, Another boyfriend I told early in the relationship, but he couldn't handle it, that ended badly, my self confidence badly damaged.
Then I met my present husband in 2008, we instantly fell in love, I was finally enjoying just being a girl and just being woman with my boyfriend, then he dropped the marriage proposal, how do you tell a guy something like that after sleeping with him for months, when is the right time, I couldn't marry him without telling him, his reaction was more shock and surprise, but he only ever knew as a woman, thankfully it worked out.

Quote from: Rhonda Lynn on October 08, 2016, 03:29:50 PM

My husband's family doesn't know either after 23 years. There is no need for them to know.

After 8 years and married 6 years, my husband's family doesn't know either, my husband doesn't want them to know, he knows his family better than me, at this stage he doesn't need that stress in his life, I don't think he could handle the negative reaction, ridicule and mockery married to a woman like me, comments like ''omg his wife used to be a man'' the world is full of ignorant people.
Life is good now, I'm a happily married woman with a husband, another boring housewife, the normality of it all.

I only offer the account below since people seem to feel it is inevitable that past chapters of a life need to be revealed. I offer a brief account of two long-term relationship I had--one where I told of my past without incident and one where I did not without incident.

I had a 12-year relationships where after about four years I "had to" reveal my past after being asked, almost point blank, why I did not come out and admit I was a cancer survivor. (I didn't menstruate, so what else could it be?) I felt cornered and revealed. There was a sigh of relief that I was "clear." But the curiosity was there. What was my past? I wanted to forget it, but now how could I forbid the topic with my main squeeze? Was I going to refuse to unlock the waterproof trunk in the basement where I had my vital documents and some family photos? I relented and revealed its existence, and wasn't I an adorable child and wasn't it was "obvious" from my childhood photos (just look at the eyes!) that I was always a girl. I was not sure I wanted to hear so much assurance, but it seemed to be genuine. Said lovingly, but still . . .

Some years later I was in another long-term relationship. This time I vowed not to tell. I was old enough by then that I was in menopausal years (50-ish), so the issue of cancer survivor did not come up. I vowed not to reveal given the fact I did not want to revisit a childhood 40 years gone. The locked trunk with vital documents and the few family photos remained locked in our attic. People in their 50s are not as anxious to see baby pictures and reminisce about high school and college days. Since I had transitioned in college, that marked a nice break to move forward from. My parents had passed away. I had no extended family. There was no one from my old life to out me. As a practical matter, there had to be some big benefit for me, or for him, for me to reveal this past that I was having trouble remembering. I read on a board about 15 years ago that for every two years you live post-full time, a pre-full time year is remember as full time. What a bunch of hooey! But you know what, it's true. You don't make up memories or have photos doctored in PS, but there is a vibe I got, and it was not linear. It felt kind of like seeing the character Samantha Stewart in the series Foyle's War, where it's "she," but not obviously. Does that make sense? That old life fades. Why in tarnation was I going to exhume that corpse and perform an autopsy? Would that delight me or him? I concluded, no.

All I am saying that for some people, it right, proper, and good to tell a husband or wife or life partner about one's early days and past as a different gender. However, for some of us it is not and the closed-narrative option should not be dismissed without discussion as to its benefits; at least that's what I think.

Quote from: Virginia Hall on October 08, 2016, 07:37:23 PM
All I am saying that for some people, it right, proper, and good to tell a husband or wife or life partner about one's early days and past as a different gender. However, for some of us it is not and the closed-narrative option should not be dismissed without discussion as to its benefits; at least that's what I think.

I have heard cases where, when it came out even years later, it destroyed the relationship (as well as cases where it did not end or significantly change the relationship).

Unfortunately, in this electronic age where records are forever and more and more searchable, for those transitioning now in adulthood after having worked or gone to college, there will always be the possibility that it may come out accidentally, even many years later.

Although I am 18 years post-op , this is not something I have to deal with as I stayed married from before...

But I know if my marriage fell apart now so that I found myself alone in my 60's or beyond it would be devastating, much more so than when I was younger (thought it would always have been very hard).

Quote from: Karen_A on October 08, 2016, 10:38:28 PM
I have heard cases where, when it came out even years later, it destroyed the relationship (as well as cases where it did not end or significantly change the relationship).

Unfortunately, in this electronic age where records are forever and more and more searchable, for those transitioning now in adulthood after having worked or gone to college, there will always be the possibility that it may come out accidentally, even many years later.

Although I am 18 years post-op , this is not something I have to deal with as I stayed married from before...

But I know if my marriage fell apart now so that I found myself alone in my 60's or beyond it would be devastating, much more so than when I was younger (thought it would always have been very hard).

Thank you for acknowledging my point Karen_A,

I do not disagree with your reasoning. You make very good points. I was lucky to transition when I did and when electronic records were in their infancy. Plus, in the 1970s people who transitioned usually lost everyone. I sure did. And you are right, it would be tough to lose someone late in life, so why push it in his face?

I came out of the closet by transitioning. Telling him would be going back into the closet by giving life to a false narrative. I would be telling a "lie." Does that suddenly sound backwards? "Isn't it the truth you were a guy!?" No. That was the lie. The lie was what I lived. The lie is the closet. Dumping the false images is the truth. He only knows me as Virginia. Heck. I only know me as Virginia for these 40 years. Why poison that?

I am not saying that someone is wrong in telling their husband, wife, or life partner about their past. That is a personal decision. All I am trying to say is that there may be circumstances and reasons someone might not chose to and we are not sinners for keeping it to ourselves.

Quote from: Virginia Hall on October 08, 2016, 11:38:23 PM
. And you are right, it would be tough to lose someone late in life, so why push it in his face?

My point was that in the modern world the chance of it coming out unexpectedly is much higher than it was in the past. and that will likely be the case for people making the change now and likely forever more.

A spouse being told after many years  would be difficult of course because of feelings of betrayal, but a spouse finding out from a 3rd party or electronic search by accident IMO is a lot less likely to accept if they find out from any outside source...

Particularly if it comes out later in life, it can destroy  or at least severely damage 2 lives... That is why these days, as hard as it may be, I think it would be advisable to disclose BEFORE marriage...

For those in your situation, at this point what is best is unknowable.

Obviously  it is on weighing your mind  or you would not be posting about it. If you can forget about it, and *IF* it never comes out then all will be well.

But if knowing it can happen affects you emotionally or if you feel guilty about it, that will wear on you and affect both you and the relationship negatively... but I think you know that.

So a lot depends on you, as well as chance. Sometimes there is no good solution and you just have to decide why is the path of least damage for you both and live with it.

It is totally unfair that we as a group have to deal with this type of reality, but unless/until society truly accepts us as women, it is what it is.

Quote from: Karen_A on October 09, 2016, 10:39:31 AM

Particularly if it comes out later in life, it can destroy  or at least severely damage 2 lives... That is why these days, as hard as it may be, I think it would be advisable to disclose BEFORE marriage...

Obviously  it is on weighing your mind  or you would not be posting about it. If you can forget about it, and *IF* it never comes out then all will be well.

But if knowing it can happen affects you emotionally or if you feel guilty about it, that will wear on you and affect both you and the relationship negatively... but I think you know that.

Hello Karen_A,

Thank you again for engaging in this conversation Yes, I have felt guilty. I have been guilt-tripped and been told in no uncertain terms that I am no good for having a closed narrative. This position is argued to the point just short of dogma.

Earlier I tried to share that I had tried each path, so its not completely theoretical. I did go the disclosure route and I shared why sharing that lie of a false self was corrosive and how I had come out of the closet only to be pushed back into one. The relationship ended, but not over gender issues.

Speaking only for myself I came to prefer being in a relationship that was a closed narrative. If he suspected anything, he never brought it up or hinted at it. I said I felt much better about this relationship than the one with the open narrative. It is a realistic option and one I chose. The relationship ended, but it was not over gender issues.

If there is no voice here saying that closed narratives can work (and I agree with you that they don't always work) then there is no balancing view. Way back when, others convinced me that it was mandatory--even righteous--to have an open narrative.

You suggested a closed narrative might wear on a person. Actually what "wore" on me was the open narrative, not the closed one. What wore on me was that the false pre-transition image of me had any ultimate validity.

You have valid points about telling a husband, wife, or life partner about the past if they are going to find out one way or the other. Sure. Better he hear it from you.

But what if that is not likely? What if God came to you and said, "your partner will never learn of the ancient past unless you tell him?" What then?

Thank you so much for your advice and helpful insights everyone! And Joanna thanks for the welcome! I do feel so welcome here after all the replies and caring persons here❤

The success stories from those who came out and told their boyfriends/husbands tell me that there are boys that will accept. And indeed, if he cannot accept he is simply not the right one.

At the moment i am still waiting for the right moment. This is still the difficult part, but now I do know how to tell and I have never doubted that I should tell him, but the timing seems to be a struggle. This weekend we dated again and things went physical again, but I was a little more reserved about it and did not take it too far. I know he wants penetrative sex because he asked about it couple of times but he also knows I am virgin so seems to understand why i am holding back(although the real reason is that I want to tell him about being a transgirl before going all the way..). I will probably tell him during our next dinner date, since dinner feels like a good time to tell.

I will keep you all posted😘

Quote from: Virginia Hall on October 09, 2016, 03:59:08 PM
But what if that is not likely? What if God came to you and said, "your partner will never learn of the ancient past unless you tell him?" What then?

Realistically there are no guarantees in life...

So it depends on his much guilt you feel and can live with and how much that guilt, as well as any worrying about if it might come out some day, and how much your having to be be guarded and and not being able to share yourself fully with your life partner, affects the relationship.

For some that will be a lot. For some it will be only a little.  For some it will be none (though I personally don't understand how it can be none at all)

Again although the odds may be small in your situation they are not zero

Once in that situation you have to decide what you think is best for BOTH of you and the relationship... and keeping that secret means you take that burden completely on yourself.  If what you decide is right or wrong, is up to you. In an ideal world it would not matter, but obviously you know in this world it does.

As i said it's not fair that we should have to deal with such things ... but things are as they are and given that, I don't think anyone has the right to condemn anyone for the decision they make.  Life is too complicated for absolutes.

I fully understand the desire to just be seen as a woman without an asterisk by all, including the person closed to you... I think that is what most of have always wanted dearly,  and so it's lot easier not to tell if no one can tell...

But I will say is for the reasons I mention above, I think it's a situation that is best avoided. Even without disclosure it MAY have a long tern caustic effect on the relationship, and if it comes out years later, it MAY blow blow up 2 lives.  As hard as it might be, it seems it would be best to find someone who can see you as you, even if they know.

BTW your writing style seems very familiar. Have we discussed these types of issues in other fora years ago?

Quote from: Karen_A on October 09, 2016, 07:22:46 PM

. . . it depends on his much guilt you feel and can live with and how much that guilt, as well as any worrying about if it might come out some day, and how much your having to be be guarded and and not being able to share yourself fully with your life partner, affects the relationship.

Again although the odds may be small in your situation they are not zero . . .

If God says "no chance," I'll take it. The point was to take out the fear factor. The two remaining thins are guilt and intimacy. Guilt comes from doing something wrong--possibly because a certain kind of intimacy is not achieved. But there is a tradeoff because a different intimacy is lost.

Chocolate,

Congratulations on finding such a special person. I wish you luck as you proceed forward.

It seems like this topic has shifted to a debate of whether to tell or not. Your original post was when and how. It seems that debating whether to is a topic all it's own. Is there interest in me splitting that off as a topic to be further discussed while we can continue with Chocolate's progress and question here?

Sincerely,

Joanna

Quote from: chocolate97 on October 09, 2016, 04:57:30 PM
Thank you so much for your advice and helpful insights everyone! And Joanna thanks for the welcome! I do feel so welcome here after all the replies and caring persons here❤

The success stories from those who came out and told their boyfriends/husbands tell me that there are boys that will accept. And indeed, if he cannot accept he is simply not the right one.

At the moment i am still waiting for the right moment. This is still the difficult part, but now I do know how to tell and I have never doubted that I should tell him, but the timing seems to be a struggle. This weekend we dated again and things went physical again, but I was a little more reserved about it and did not take it too far. I know he wants penetrative sex because he asked about it couple of times but he also knows I am virgin so seems to understand why i am holding back(although the real reason is that I want to tell him about being a transgirl before going all the way..). I will probably tell him during our next dinner date, since dinner feels like a good time to tell.

I will keep you all posted😘

Chocolate, you seem to have a pretty handle on the situation and on knowing when the time is right. At the very least, it is likely that he will appreciate your honesty. I have found that most people do.

Good luck to you, hun! Please let us know how it goes.

Don't judge me but I never tell the guys I date/dated and some never knew for years until now or  perhaps they just don't want to deal with it.... I did tell a few guys that I dated before - the ones Im really not in to....the  2 usual reaction that I experienced are the ff:  they are so in love then in a snap of a finger goodbye as if you never existed and or they don't disappear but things change, romance and affection gone just turns into a sexual thing.... I screen/choose the guys I date carefully and I don't date guys who I can assess could be violent. i agree that no matter how passable or gorgeous you are some people can sense a little bit or it would cross their mind but generally I pass 99% of the time... It's just harder to pass with Asian guys- i dont care for them anyway lol.. Asian people have an excellent trans radar lol. i've dated a few doctors/ surgeon and they never even questioned my anatomy... I was just asked once or twice if I had kids due to my cs like scar on my lower abdomen/pubic area....... I honestly think some guys knew but just din't care but din't want to deal/talk about it and doesn't care about your past, some has clues or discovers later on but don't want to deal with it so they just disappear or finds an excuse for a break up other than that.......some guys I knew pre-op that I never had to explain they just started wooing or developing feelings naturally.... I dunno but I am firm on never admitting/ revealing my past and I have a plethora of excuses if the need for explaining arise..... You don't owe anyone an explanation!

Thank you Joanna and Rhonda. Your comments are reassuring. I will tell you how things progress as it happens.

@Miss Lux; I can't say that I agree, because I feel it is important to disclose this when things start to get serious. Not disclosing will definitely not work for me as I would not be able to live with that.. but I think everyone is different and needs to decide what feels best.

Quote from: Rhonda Lynn on October 10, 2016, 06:39:38 PM
Chocolate, you seem to have a pretty handle on the situation and on knowing when the time is right. At the very least, it is likely that he will appreciate your honesty. I have found that most people do.

Good luck to you, hun! Please let us know how it goes.

Absolutely agree, just getting the timing right, I remember I was sick with worry, very tense nervous anxious as we had been sleeping together for months, I told him on a dinner date, he was a bit shocked, but recovered and did appreciate my honesty before he put that diamond engagement ring on my finger, I was so relieved, he was so supportive, it's a great relief, no more secrets, we got married 6 months later, over the years he has always reassured me that I always was and always will be a woman, and a special girl.
Best of luck, hope it goes well.

Just to tag onto what Virginia says (hi!), yes, there's a different kind of intimacy in a relationship that isn't predicated on disclosure.  "Coming out" when you're already where you want to be is kind of asking someone to start treating you differently than they already are.  If you're being gendered correctly, well, isn't that what this is all about?

Of course, it's possible that the information will come around from other quarters.  So let me tell the story of my friend "Raquel Welch," for that's pretty much how she came across.  Raquel was dating this fella Jack, and kept a closed narrative.  About six months down the line, they're in love.  Then, he finds some information related to property records (he was in real estate, and naturally curious) and so he asked her what was up.

Now, this is a very different situation than volunteering a narrative.  Raquel didn't ask for this, Jack did.  So she tells the story, and explains that as far as she's concerned, she's past all that, she's female now, and that's the end of the story.  If Jack wants to continue the relationship with her, he'll have to accept that narrative, or it's not gonna fly.  Oh, and after one week, the subject is never to be brought up again.

He married her a couple years later, and they lived happily ever after.

Happily, because she knew exactly what she wanted, and lived her life that way. 

I am responding to your query a little late, but I am hoping your dinner date went well. Your question brought back memories of how I used to feel when having to cross that bridge of telling. I've been in that situation a few times, but not that many, because I am very picky about who gets to 'know' about me. Almost always, I have chosen to do it over dinner -- so I am hoping all went your way with your talk. I remember almost breaking up and walking away from someone who meant the world to me because I did not want feel the pain of a broken heart or worst yet -- feel the pain of his broken heart. He pleaded with me to let him know what was bothering me and finally I just broke and told him. We were married 16 years after a two year engagement. He gave me the world. Marriage broke apart and I fault myself and my insecurities. But all is well now. Had it not been for my ex-   my road would never have led to my husband -- we knew instantly we were meant for each other. I guess I am trying to tell you that if you truly have deep feelings for this individual and he in return, you have reached the point of no return. You should tell him and love each other unabashedly.

Quote from: Karen_A on October 08, 2016, 10:38:28 PMUnfortunately, in this electronic age where records are forever and more and more searchable, for those transitioning now in adulthood after having worked or gone to college, there will always be the possibility that it may come out accidentally, even many years later.

This is actually how my ex-fiance, who is a now post-op trans man, got outted. His father wrote about his "schizophrenic daughter" that "took his name", in his autobiography, that was published online on the website of the university he worked at. My parents had been doing a lot of googling into my ex, because I moved out pretty immediately (due to abuse on the part of my father) in with my fiance. That wasn't the initial plan, but it was that or I was going to end up in the psych ward Mom worked at.

It... did not go over well, with my father. Mom accepted and asked lots of questions, some that were wince-worthy, but she at least wanted to understand. Dad had raised me as male and in his mind, couldn't deal with a gay son (or a queer daughter, for that matter, either).

My ex is mostly stealth these days except for talking about his experience online to help other trans folk, esp other trans men, because he didn't complete transition until his 60s due to money and other reasons. He was in his late 40s when I was involved with him, and his father outing him in his auto-biography still resulted in my fiance being outed. It caused him a lot of stress and worry because if my parents could find that, who else could?

For the trans* folk of my age and younger (I'm on the older end of Millennial), what's written online is going to be even more of a factor, because so much social media now is "real name" and even those that aren't, it can be easy to figure out who someone is IRL. If someone happens to stumble over an old Tumblr profile with lots of transition photos, well, cat's out of the bag. I have my photo here but my username isn't connected with my standard ones, so it'd be harder to find. Not impossible, because someone could google image my avatar, but that's not so common.

Anyway, sorry for the side-rail there, but I wanted to address that because my ex figured that since his parents aren't really tech folk, that nobody would find anything from them. He didn't expect his father to write an autobiography posted online, or that his father would talk about him, at all. :(

In my case, I had a lot of experiences before that the guy Im seriously dating goes away after telling him about my deep dark secret. I am a 24 year old woman and quite passable. So I figured out not telling it completely unless we are like getting married or at least not tell it at the beginning of our dating stage.

I am seeing a guy for 2 months now and we are in serious relationship. He is very proud of me and even brag me to his friends. After the 1st month of our relationship, I have decided to tell him the truth about my past. This caused us to break up and explained to me that it is because of cultural differences and he's planning to have a family and have kids of his own. He also told me that his parents and friends cannot accept me for who I am. Those words broke me into pieces and even let me think of why I wasn't just born genetically female. I did everything I could to save our relationship and even told him that its only him who should know about it because I want to be honest with him.

To cut the story short, we broke up for 2 weeks and with the help of my prayers and letting him feel how much I really love him, we got back to each other. Slowly he learned to love me as me and not because of my past history and decided to just put it in the past. But if you will ask me if I would do the same thing if I can turn back the time, my answer would be no. I'd rather tell it when its getting to the point that we are getting married. Because outing yourself right away cannot just turn him back away, it can also lead to him outing you to anyone. Now we are together and happy but I am still scared of the future that awaits us. I want him to be happy so I will do everything I could for us to live a normal life.

@Chinee;

Well good to hear that it seemed to go well after all and it was certainly very brave of you to tell him after 2 months of dating. I am happy that he still loves you and that you got back together!

As for me, I have been dating the guy for quite some time, but yesterday we had a very nice dinner date but because I was still unsure about his feelings for me (he gave me very mixed signals which drove me crazy in my mind) I first asked him where we were going before revealing anything. It turned out he was just interested in friends with benefits and looking for serious commitment. And so I decided to not tell him anything about my past because we had not future together after all. I am disappointed and puzzled. Why would a guy wait for 3 months if he is just looking for sex while I was not giving him what he was looking for? Anyway, I think I will go for some wines with friends and get over it. And hopefully I will meet someone nice, one day (and will only tell when things start to get serious, like going steady) :)

@chocolate97;

Sometimes guys can be ass****s and I think most of them just want to get in your pants not unless you'll play hard to get then thats when they will start to get serious with you (They would do everything to get into your pants no matter what if they really like you lol). I'm confused between "he was just looking for friends" and "looking for serious commitment". He might be just shy to admit it that technically you have been exclusively dating for 3 months.

Because in my experience, if a guy is only after sex, he wouldn't go far beyond a week of trying not unless he feel something special for you. Guys will be guys and if they just want a sex partner, there are many easy to get fishes in the ocean. But I still hope you'll find someone serious soon

It is difficult... and also the reason I don't date anymore.  :(

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Either way, they will see ghosts that aren't there. Ignorance leaves me bitter. Honesty will be punished.

I am approaching the age of 40, so there isn't much dating anyway. (woman over 40 are invisible to men) I don't even care about dating anymore. It seems like one huge hamsterwheel, never getting the thing I want.

Could be the post-op depression talking right now, so maybe it's best to ignore my advice for now. :D

Quote from: chinee on December 02, 2016, 03:03:09 PM
@chocolate97;

Sometimes guys can be ass****s and I think most of them just want to get in your pants not unless you'll play hard to get then thats when they will start to get serious with you (They would do everything to get into your pants no matter what if they really like you lol). I'm confused between "he was just looking for friends" and "looking for serious commitment". He might be just shy to admit it that technically you have been exclusively dating for 3 months.

Because in my experience, if a guy is only after sex, he wouldn't go far beyond a week of trying not unless he feel something special for you. Guys will be guys and if they just want a sex partner, there are many easy to get fishes in the ocean. But I still hope you'll find someone serious soon

Typo! I meant to say that he was NOT looking for something serious just fwb...

Quote from: chocolate97 on December 02, 2016, 02:18:33 PM
[...]

As for me, I have been dating the guy for quite some time, but yesterday we had a very nice dinner date but because I was still unsure about his feelings for me (he gave me very mixed signals which drove me crazy in my mind) I first asked him where we were going before revealing anything. It turned out he was just interested in friends with benefits and looking for serious commitment. And so I decided to not tell him anything about my past because we had not future together after all. I am disappointed and puzzled. Why would a guy wait for 3 months if he is just looking for sex while I was not giving him what he was looking for? Anyway, I think I will go for some wines with friends and get over it. And hopefully I will meet someone nice, one day (and will only tell when things start to get serious, like going steady) :)

Chocolate, sorry to hear that things didn't turn out as you hoped. Some guys can be like that, but there are guys out there who are not.

You were smart to wait and find out whether he was serious about you before opening up to him. It can be pretty hurtful to trust a guy enough to open up, only to have him break up with you - which would have been inevitable with him. You would have never known if his apparent "change of heart" was due to you being trans or him just not wanting to be in a serious relationship.

It's possible that he will come around again if you start drawing away. Perhaps he'll say that he's changed his mind and wants to be in a relationship. I would be careful though, I think men reach a point in their lives when they're looking for that and it is not because they have met the perfect girl - it's just that for some reason, they are ready.

You will meet a nice guy one day, just keep being true to yourself.

Quote from: 2cherry on December 02, 2016, 03:19:15 PMI am approaching the age of 40, so there isn't much dating anyway. (woman over 40 are invisible to men) I don't even care about dating anymore. It seems like one huge hamsterwheel, never getting the thing I want.

I'm approaching 50, and I've had a robust year when it comes to sex.  :)

Well as a straight male, who has been with females, I really would like my girl to tell me upfront. I feel a post op lady is as beautiful as anyone else, and for me it will have no baring.

Having said that, anyone interested  ;)
Cheers
Alan