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I was under the assumption that it would. I just went into the doctor and that was one of the first questions I asked. He said after 30 years of doing this he has never seen that happen.

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I disagree. I had great changes - better fat distribution in the cheeks and smoother, softer skin come to mind right off the bat.

I don't look anything like I did before starting HRT.

I can see changes in my face after 5 months...subtle...but they are there...it will not change any bone structure but will redistribute fat across your face which can change the appearance. In some cases dramatically. Don't give up on it

Liz

Except for my jowls, I am starting to see finer skin,  No your face cannot shrink after a certain age. Unless you use your cannibalistic talents to shrink it.

I don't understand then, first off. He said that I will have permanent hair loss in face and that there is no need for laser or electrolysis. And then when I asked if it would change my face he said that it won't. I thought he might have misunderstood and I clarified by saying that I know it won't change the facial structure and asked again if it would redistribute the fat on my face. Again he said no. I then showed him the ->-bleeped-<- page r/transtimelines and he said that most of that was ffs. When I know for certain it wasn't.

I am on estradiol, finestiride and spirolactone.

Is there something that he is prescribing that would not feminize the face?

My face is literally what I am most dysphoric about. And if it doesn't do what I though it did, then there is really no point in taking it. 

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It changed my face.


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Quote from: supergirl23 on October 18, 2016, 05:16:47 PM
I don't understand then, first off. He said that I will have permanent hair loss in face and that there is no need for laser or electrolysis. And then when I asked if it would change my face he said that it won't. I thought he might have misunderstood and I clarified by saying that I know it won't change the facial structure and asked again if it would redistribute the fat on my face. Again he said no. I then showed him the ->-bleeped-<- page r/transtimelines and he said that most of that was ffs. When I know for certain it wasn't.

I am on estradiol, finestiride and spirolactone.

Is there something that he is prescribing that would not feminize the face?

My face is literally what I am most dysphoric about. And if it doesn't do what I though it did, then there is really no point in taking it. 

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If possible you should look into getting your meds from someone else, he seems awfully misinformed. You need to have laser and/or electrolysis to lose facial hair.

It's not going to permanently remove facial hair. It may make it a bit less coarse, but you will need electrolysis and/or laser to permanently remove hair. As far as facial structure, you will not see a miracle - it won't change bone structure, which is why many trans women seek FFS to reduce brow bone, strong chin, etc.

I hope you will pay attention to how variable women's faces are and not just desperately shoot for some Barbie cookie cutter look. There are a great many women who have very strong features and they are beautiful and feminine regardless. 

Finally, I agree with kanad3 - find a different physician, one who really knows what s/he is talking about. The process is stressful enough without doubting your own doctor.

Mia

Well the thing of it is, he is literally the only doctor that does this for transgender people. Im pretty sure I wasn't shooting for barbie. I was pretty realistic.

But if he has been doing this for awhile why would he say something like that? I have seen what HRT does to other women and it's like night and day, would my prescription somehow be different?

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Hi Supergirl,

There is definitely a purpose and result from doing HRT, and it goes way beyond your face. That said, you will see some changes in your appearance.  As others have mentioned, it doesn't change bone structure, or do much for decreasing facial hair, but it will give you softer skin, and increase subcutaneous fat. Body hair will be decreased, as will skin oil.  Your actual body odor will change.  And that's just what it does for you physically.  Emotionally and psychically, the changes can be profound.

But yes, your doctor is clueless.

With kindness,

Terri

So just to clarify, I will see facial changes? I have very weak bony structures so basically I have nothing to worry about?

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Quote from: supergirl23 on October 18, 2016, 06:27:13 PM
So just to clarify, I will see facial changes? I have very weak bony structures so basically I have nothing to worry about?

If you have very weak bony structures, you have much less to worry about.  HRT will soften some features by changing your skin and how your fat is distributed.  (It'll also help you to grow breasts, and can open you up to a greater range of emotional response.) 

The finasteride should halt the recession of your hairline. 

The overall package will slow beard growth, and should help to reduce new hairs from forming, but any hairs that are there are basically there until you get them zapped. 

HRT will not change the shape of your brow, your mandible, or your nose.

I still don't understand why he would say something like that. If the there is fat redistribution on the face why would he say that there isn't? And then go as far as saying that it was literally all ffs or Botox or some other procedure?

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Because he does not have a lot of experience with transgender females on HRT, apparently. Or he is not very observant. But his credibility is not the point. HRT does cause some fat redistribution in the face.  My face got rounder and softer.  Even I could see it. Your result should be similar. Never mind about what your doctor believes.  Estradiol, spironolactone and finasteride are a very common HRT regimen. You should see results in a few months.

With kindness,

Terri

We can only guess. Older HRT treatment wasn't as effective as it is today and changes to the face if they occurred were far slower. I pull my old male pictures and compare them to my avatar and there wasn't much in the way of changes. On this site I started looking at the before and after pictures and with girls that I know had only received HRT, I was seeing changes in only a few months that I never seen before. Unfortunately, not everybody gets stunning results as they have suffered more testosterone poisoning and may require bone work to erase enough male feature to appear feminine. Still a little fat in the right places often makes us appear feminine if not attractive.

I can only hope now that I am on modern HRT, I will see additional changes to my face as I know HRT is doing things to me that I never expected.

I'd seriously consider getting a new doctor. If he's been administering HRT for 30 years and it hasn't resulted in any face changes for his patients, then he's been doing something wrong.

  It did change my face. Friends and family did notice that.

Joelene

I think your doctor is wrong. If he's the only way to get HRT, then nod and smile while he spouts this stuff, but ignore it. :)

I couldn't pass as a guy by six months on HRT; even in male clothes with my hair up and Army boots, I was told my male ID was my brother's and to stop pretending to be him. I'm pretty sure it worked to change my face!

So the prescription will work? My doctor is just severely misinformed? Because if it won't work is there a way I can get a doctor's approval through the internet?

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Your doctor is wrong, misinformed, and possibly making assumptions - don't forget that people who are familiar with someone often seen less in terms of changes because they see what they expect to see (like, my mother didn't think I looked any different when I was being read as female 100% by strangers). So if he thinks HRT won't work, he'll probably see "proof" that it doesn't.

There are no guarantees, of course, and not everyone sees the kind of changes they hoped for. But in any case, if properly prescribed and monitored HRT doesn't help, getting it illegally from shady sources *definitely* won't.

Your doctor probably just wants you to have realistic expectations

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Yeah like not everyone experiences dramatic shifts in the face but some of us do and usually most experience some changes at best regardless of age.

Quote from: Maybebaby56 on October 18, 2016, 06:16:54 PM
But yes, your doctor is clueless.

With kindness,

Terri

This made me laugh. And I second that. :P

I've been on HRT for 8 years and because I'm not socially transitioning I have to keep a light beard to hide the changes in my face. No idea if my face is actually feminine without the beard, but it's definitely not normal male anymore.

I will get ffs if I socially transition. I expect it will do some good.

Quote from: supergirl23 on October 18, 2016, 06:27:13 PM
So just to clarify, I will see facial changes? I have very weak bony structures so basically I have nothing to worry about?

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The thing is: Testosterone works in devious ways. On the one hand, it increases muscle mass everywhere in your body, and it reduces fat. On the other hand, it will cause some facial features (mostly your brow ridge) to keep growing as you get older, it's actually one of the few bones that grow most of your life.

This is also one of the reasons those of us who are older usually have more difficult time to pass. Bulky brow ridges are a very masculine feature, and since the brow ridge keeps growing as we age, the face looks ever more masculine. In such cases, FFS might be needed.

So that's the one side. On the other hand, there's the more malleable parts: your muscle mass and fat. HRT will make you loose your masculine muscle mass within 2-3 years after starting. Now concider the following: there are 21 individual muscles in your face! These will also diminish in size, which will have an impact on your facial contours.

Then there's the accumulation of fat. Estrogen causes your body to create a layer of subcutaneous fat (under the skin) everywhere across your body. This also happens in your face, causing more rounded cheeks and (hopefully) a slightly more rounded contour of your skin.

Of course there are genetic factors as well. Some people simply have very square jawlines, there's not much else we can do about this than FFS. As long as you don't have such a jawline, you should be fine.

...You think maybe they meant it won't change your bone structure like FFS will?  Because it can't do that.  Only change the muscle/fat distribution...

Quote from: supergirl23 on October 19, 2016, 11:15:09 AM
So the prescription will work?

No guarantees what it will do, but it will likely do something positive with your face.

QuoteMy doctor is just severely misinformed?

That's what it sounds like.

QuoteBecause if it won't work is there a way I can get a doctor's approval through the internet?

Well, it sounds like you already have your prescription.  So, just continue taking it, and go back to your doc when you need to renew it.  So what if he doesn't believe it will work on your face?  You will be able to show him differently when it does.

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It's the common YMMV - some  people improve where others remain static.

Browse the various 'Before and after' threads here at this site and you will see many diverse examples over a wide spectrum of ages and physical characteristics.  (I'm #1362 on thread 3.0.)

Dena makes a good point about when you were on whatever was your ERT.  My initial internist began me with birth control pills as a test then Diethylstilbestrol (1979).  Those seemed to have minimal effect on my appearance.  My later internist put me on the same dose but changed to Premarin and wow the facial changes hit (1983). 

No doubt today's 'cocktail' is far better than what Dena and I were originally prescribed.  Most transition specialists today should know better what to prescribe.

I moved to Utah (1980) where no doctor would accept me; that put me off meds for more than two years.  Opportunity struck and I resumed ERT in February 1983. By May 1983, my looks apparently changed so drastically during those few months on Premarin that my employer began action to fire me from my job with the federal government.  Of course they long suspected something was up, my change was one more piece of evidence that pushed them over the edge.

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