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I feel lost and don't know what to do... My wife gave me the very hard ultimatum "transition or a life with her" some month ago, during this time, I was on HRT some weeks and most day's I felt happier than ever in my life before. I was happy about the changes, I was happy about the first mistakes and uncertainties from people I didn't know. I continued HRT for some weeks and tried to think about what I'll do...

I love her, she's the circle of my life. So I stopped my transition. Stopped HRT. Stopped wearing clothes I liked. And focused on giving her the "man" back, she married - the military-muscle-karate-guy she loved... I forced my brain to feel comfortable in my body and my life, and it worked. We were happy together, like we used to be before. 3-4 weeks later, I started to feel uncomfortable, jealous and sad again. The depression came back. Day by day stronger. The need to restart my transition again came back...

I didn't talk to anyone yet about the last weeks. I don't know what to do... I feel so lost, and can't find any solution for me. The only thing I know and I will hold on is, that I'm not going to lie to my wife again, and I'll not do anything behind her back...

Dear Eleonore,

unfortunately, I know exactly what you're going through... the only difference is that my wife would have left me even if I wouldn't transition. The thought alone that I've always felt like a woman is enough evidence to her to say that she is not a lesbian and therefore cannot be with me.

Stopping HRT for love is the biggest sacrifice you possibly could have done but in most cases, it goes wrong. You cannot fool your mind. I've learned that lesson too. I've always thought love would cure me and it helped for a few years - but it always comes back, stronger than ever.

Have you tried couple therapy with a therapist that specializes in gender issues? I tried that, too and it didn't help - at all. My wife got really mad at me for convincing her because the therapist kept using female pronouns for me...

I know this might not be helpful at all but I think the truth is that when our partners are unable to accept us, there is nothing we can do about it because we cannot change who we truly are.

Sorry for the bad news :(

Big Hugs
Jessica

Elenore,

I fear I can't add anything positive to Jessicas answer.
I had the same experience with my wife. Although I told her in our first year together, when I couldn't bear it any longer she couldn't see any future together. That our relationship wasn't in the best shape (horseman of the apocalypse) didn't help to convince her to try and see where we might end up.

Hugs, Thessa

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Jessica & Thessa

Yes we tried...and I had the exactly same experience as you describe it with the therapist. Unfortunately she's giving my therapist a blame, because she thinks my therapist was the main reason for starting my transition ("Before you started to visit your therapist, life was perfect...")... that's why I do not go there anymore since I started HRT...

I already thought that's what I'm going to read as an answer... I thank you for that, even if it's not the mystic-wonder-solution which I secretly wished for but honestly knew, that it's not existing... 

Eleonore  :'(

You might explain to your wife that it may have appeared perfect to her but she has at least in part been attracted to the feminine side of you. In your case while you love her you have been uncomfortable before and after the marriage suppressing this part of you. I suspect she will be blind to the discomfort you were suffering as people who can fully empathize with others are rare but at least you will have tried.

Love is never permanent.

You have to be true to yourself, who you are in your core, or any relationship is going to be a sham. If she doesn't love the real you, then she doesn't love you.  And that isn't a relationship at all.

Your happiness is just as important as hers.  And in this case, it might be that you both have to move on from this relationship for both of you to find true happiness.

Quote from: Eleonore on October 19, 2016, 08:19:25 AM
Jessica & Thessa

Yes we tried...and I had the exactly same experience as you describe it with the therapist. Unfortunately she's giving my therapist a blame, because she thinks my therapist was the main reason for starting my transition ("Before you started to visit your therapist, life was perfect...")... that's why I do not go there anymore since I started HRT...

I already thought that's what I'm going to read as an answer... I thank you for that, even if it's not the mystic-wonder-solution which I secretly wished for but honestly knew, that it's not existing... 

Eleonore  :'(

OMG that sounds all too familiar. My wife says the exact same thing. She is convinced that my therapist pushed me to transition even though it was me who pushed her to give me that letter so I can get my hormones. I still go and see my therapist because it wouldn't make a difference anyway. I'm actually on my way to see her right now..

Be strong!

Hugs
Jessica

Quote from: Eleonore on October 19, 2016, 08:19:25 AM
Jessica & Thessa

Yes we tried...and I had the exactly same experience as you describe it with the therapist. Unfortunately she's giving my therapist a blame, because she thinks my therapist was the main reason for starting my transition ("Before you started to visit your therapist, life was perfect...")... that's why I do not go there anymore since I started HRT...

I already thought that's what I'm going to read as an answer... I thank you for that, even if it's not the mystic-wonder-solution which I secretly wished for but honestly knew, that it's not existing... 

Eleonore  :'(

Hi Eleonore,

I'm sorry for this, and as with the others who've already told you their experiences, mine haven't been much better. Ok we weren't married, but we've been together for 5 years or so. Considering that I'm 30 years old now, that's half of my adult life.

Perhaps what I can add, is that you can try to respect her decision. She has fallen in love with an idea, a person you tried to be. The you who never really existed, a theatre play that finally became visible for what it was: a person playing a role.

And as the truth comes out, things settle. Things become obvious, the illusions fade and reality slowly creeps up on you both. In your case, it might be the slow and awful realization you have to love yourself first. That she can't do it for you. This doesn't make her a bad person, but it does make her somebody who's believed in an illusion. Her response is to try to fight to keep her illusion, because she likes it.

However, this will only end up hurting both her and yourself. She can never have you as a man, because it's not who you are, I think. So what's left? Please listen to your heart, because it will tell you what to do. Some situations  aren't meant to be resolved, and some problems are just that. I wish you all the strength you'll need to get though this!

Eline

I'm sorry if this is not at all helpful, but it really seems to me that your predicament has more to do with your wife than you. You present a very solid dilemma - you are transgender. You could have told her that you are a long-term gambling addict, into beastiality, get off on popping balloons or any number of other things, and you would still be a man. I guess by her logic any of those might be more bearable.

This issue becomes one of your wife's willingness to identify and confront her own fears. What is her true issue? Fear of being labeled homosexual? Fear of being embarrassed in front of (obviously very shallow) friends and family? Fear of you becoming prettier than her?

Are her fears more important to her than your ultimate happiness even if you are completely devoted to her? Has she (or you, for that matter) contemplated a future with you moping around the house angry and depressed because you can't be YOU?

I bring this to you based on my own experience. I was with a beautiful woman whom I adored, the one who I sprung my big discovery on....fortunately for me, she was big enough to confront her fears. We had an agreement at first - she was NOT lesbian!! As time has passed, and after a handful of visits to a gender-specializing therapist, and after much study on the topic of transgender people and couples, she has come to realize that she is truly happy with me as a woman. Frankly she is admitting that she isn't sure that she could ever love a man the way she once thought she did.

I don't suggest you pull the pin and march off one way or the other. But I do think that therapy that extends beyond your gender status is necessary. Have you both identified what are absolute red lights to your marriage?? Did you know that you and your wife even had red lights??

Good luck - I can personally attest to the fact that it is 100% possible to live in a beautiful, loving relationship with someone after a gender transition. I was eventually married, as a woman, to my beautiful bride in a wedding that was very well attended by close friends and family who love us and support us still.

Mia

Hi, I had the same experience a couple years ago. It's an incredibly difficult situation. I ultimately chose to transition. If faced with the situation again, I'd make the same choice. Stephie and I remained best friends, despite separating.

I don't know that you'll necessarily have the same opportunity to remain friends, but for us I'm sure separating would have happened regardless of whether I transitioned - it would have just been a matter of time. Purging only helps for so long, and eventually the depression would have eaten me up. We tried to make it work for a little while, but she just couldn't find a way to make it work for her. She wasn't even a little bi (:

Stephie passed away a few weeks ago, but over the past couple years she's told me countless time that I'd turned into such a beautiful person since transitioning. The hormones make a difference, but for me the largest and most impacting factors were finally being able to be me, finally feeling comfortable in my skin, and weeding out and finding new people that truly love me for me.

Transition is hard, but it's well worth it.

Good luck with your situation. If you ever need someone to talk to, feel free to chat me up. (:


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Quote from: Sophia Sage on October 19, 2016, 08:32:57 AM
Love is never permanent.

You have to be true to yourself, who you are in your core, or any relationship is going to be a sham. If she doesn't love the real you, then she doesn't love you.  And that isn't a relationship at all.

Your happiness is just as important as hers.  And in this case, it might be that you both have to move on from this relationship for both of you to find true happiness.

Hi Eleonore

There is much truth in Sophia's words...

This journey can be like climbing a great mountain...sometimes the faces we see around us at the top are not the ones we saw at the bottom in the beginning... Sometimes we lose people along the way... They can't or don't want to make the climb that we must make.... We lose all the layers we have placed on ourself over the years to fulfill the needs and expectations of others. If a spouse signed on thinking those layers would always be there and don't care to know the person underneath...an already difficult journey becomes exceedingly difficult... I am not saying things cannot be salvaged if that is a true desire for both of you...I have seen It done... But the phrase "To thyne own self be true" carries a lot of weight along this road we are on...

This thing we do is a journey into who we are at our core... It is about acceptance of who we are at our core... It is about living who we are at our core

Onward we go!!!

Ashley :)

I read so much energy and experience in your words, from all of you... thank you so much!

I hope I'm going to find my path soon, the current situations is more than frustrating :-(

Quote from: Mia on October 19, 2016, 11:10:19 AM
This issue becomes one of your wife's willingness to identify and confront her own fears. What is her true issue? Fear of being labeled homosexual? Fear of being embarrassed in front of (obviously very shallow) friends and family? Fear of you becoming prettier than her?

Yes. Based on my experiences so far, fears of the unknowns are the major reason of conflicts between a transgender person and the significant others. Once the couples realize and understand the reality of unknown, the fears and all conflicts will disappear.

In my case, my wife worried about my kids. My parents, sisters, friends worried about the future of my kids. My colleagues worried about my students, and etc. All people worry about others except themselves.

If she (or he) can understand you, why can not other people do? People tend to assume that they are superior to others in understanding and accepting you, but that is not the case. Even kids are as wise as adults.

I have sustained my family and kept my jobs without any serious problem since I started wearing women's clothes 13 years ago. Nowadays, all people around me seem to accept this fact.

Yes. Please start talking and understanding the causes of the fears.

barbie~~

Quote from: barbie on October 26, 2016, 04:36:06 AM

In my case, my wife worried about my kids. My parents, sisters, friends worried about the future of my kids. My colleagues worried about my students, and etc. All people worry about others except themselves.

My ex also "worried" about my children, so much so that she filed legal papers lamenting untold trauma to them, and including a request that the judge order them to stop calling me "Maddy" instead of daddy.

Today, my children are my biggest supporters, and they have written school essays about lessons learned regarding loyalty, independence, love and myriad more positive traits that have come from my transition. That despite hearing regular and on-going tirades about my sickness from their mother and grandparents...as my eldest wrote, her mother and grandparents find me "revolting."

Obviously if an adult wanted to, they could find a way to see beyond their own biases and find love for the human within.

Mia

This is hard. This is probably the hardest thing anyone with loved ones has to face. And you all have my deepest, and warmest best wishes that you find the best way through this minefield you can. To a place where everyone involved can find peace.

There is a lot of wisdom in the words spoken so far. If you can't find yourself, how can anyone else hope to find you? Much less love you. That's a truth that can't be escaped, no matter how much we may wish it were so.

The only thing I have to add is this: Don't blame. It's hard for people to accept change. It's hard for someone to throw out a lot of the things they thought about a person, the things they thought they knew, and accept something else. I do it myself. I'm as guilty as anyone, and I'm the person who should understand most, lol. But I don't. Because people generally don't. We hold on to the familiar. As drowning people hold on to driftwood. They're anchors in our lives. When everything else is up in the air.

Whatever your path in life, and however your story ends up being written, sweetie. Don't blame. As hard as it is for you to take those steps to be yourself, it's as hard for the other to let the image of you they knew go.

When people get scared, they blame. They look for reasons. Often irrational ones, when the rational ones don't work. They don't want to let go of that driftwood. That security.

Things are what they are. Don't blame. Listen to each other. Talk. See if you can move forward. Be open.

But don't forget who you are. That's the worst thing you can do. For both of you.

Quote from: Mia on October 26, 2016, 09:38:30 AM
Today, my children are my biggest supporters, and they have written school essays about lessons learned regarding loyalty, independence, love and myriad more positive traits that have come from my transition. That despite hearing regular and on-going tirades about my sickness from their mother and grandparents...as my eldest wrote, her mother and grandparents find me "revolting."

I have 3 kids. The eldest son seldom said about it. He seemed to think that I can overcome anything. My second son did not like my appearance. Sometimes he complained about it. He feared whether his friends may see me and he will be possibly bullied or ostracized. Now he seems to have overcome that fear, as he grows up.

My little daughter is always my comfort. She just like to play with me. She jokes about my gender identity, and jokingly calls me mommy or sister. Sometimes she asks why she has 2 moms, and etc. She brings the scissors, threatening me to cut my hair. And she plays with all of my makeup tools. She draws with my eyeliner or lipstick in her face. Also she is very interested in my clothes and shoes, trying to wear them at home, but never outdoors. Yesterday night, she brought a brush with cream, insisting that she has to erase all remaining makeup around my eyes. I just followed her directions. She is still very proud of me.

barbie~~

This sounds a little like where I am just now. I have paused...and I feel terrible and lost. Experience tells me giving my wife back "a man" just gives her a shell and she doesn't like that either. Feeling deeply for you!

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Quote from: laure_natasha on October 27, 2016, 11:54:14 PM
This sounds a little like where I am just now. I have paused...and I feel terrible and lost. Experience tells me giving my wife back "a man" just gives her a shell and she doesn't like that either. Feeling deeply for you!

How long have your been pausing now? One stupid thing in our relationship is, I think she doesn't see my suffering and is really happy with what she got back...
The more I think, the more I know, it's not going to stay paused for me anymore for a long time... during talks with good friends, and all the experience I read here I tried to focus on what I need, and there is simply only one way for me... to definitely continue my transition as soon as possible...

Quote from: Eleonore on October 19, 2016, 06:16:36 AM
I feel lost and don't know what to do... My wife gave me the very hard ultimatum "transition or a life with her" some month ago, during this time, I was on HRT some weeks and most day's I felt happier than ever in my life before. I was happy about the changes, I was happy about the first mistakes and uncertainties from people I didn't know. I continued HRT for some weeks and tried to think about what I'll do...

I love her, she's the circle of my life. So I stopped my transition. Stopped HRT. Stopped wearing clothes I liked. And focused on giving her the "man" back, she married - the military-muscle-karate-guy she loved... I forced my brain to feel comfortable in my body and my life, and it worked. We were happy together, like we used to be before. 3-4 weeks later, I started to feel uncomfortable, jealous and sad again. The depression came back. Day by day stronger. The need to restart my transition again came back...

I didn't talk to anyone yet about the last weeks. I don't know what to do... I feel so lost, and can't find any solution for me. The only thing I know and I will hold on is, that I'm not going to lie to my wife again, and I'll not do anything behind her back...

I waited and I've regretted it for 37 years. She found out. Started an affair with a doctor at work. I blamed her all these years. It got so bad I about had a breakdown. Unless you talk to my sister. I wanted to know why I would allow the love of my life to feel ignored. So I went to therapy and unveiled the truth. No chickening out this time.
What the councilor suggested made perfect sense. I was more in love with my hidden persona than I was with my wife. I also found out that my mother may have been prescribed DES. Which explains why the symptoms I have, suggest I am a Des son and my behavior was pre destined. I've explained it to my current wife and she is doing the best she can with it. So now I have been on HRT for two and one half months and feel better than any time in a long while. Going for voice lessons presently. Start electrolysis next month. I think my hair is long enough to cut and style. Really, it's been great s OK far.

Does your wife love you, or the idea she has of you? I find that kind of ultimatum poisonous, because as a transwoman, you are manipulated into believing you don't love her enough if you do the unavoidable: transitioning. Personally, I refused to be blackmailed in that way and helped her pack her bags.

Quote from: Eleonore on October 28, 2016, 01:06:49 AM
How long have your been pausing now? One stupid thing in our relationship is, I think she doesn't see my suffering and is really happy with what she got back...
The more I think, the more I know, it's not going to stay paused for me anymore for a long time... during talks with good friends, and all the experience I read here I tried to focus on what I need, and there is simply only one way for me... to definitely continue my transition as soon as possible...

Three weeks and it's proving unbearable. I'm sure my wife notices the discomfort. It's the worst conundrum imaginable for both of us because there is such deep love and shared experience at risk.

Quote from: Naomi71 on October 28, 2016, 01:14:38 AMDoes your wife love you, or the idea she has of you? I find that kind of ultimatum poisonous, because as a transwoman, you are manipulated into believing you don't love her enough if you do the unavoidable

As a woman, how could you even stand it?  She can be herself, but you can't?  What is this, junior high?

Quote from: Naomi71 on October 28, 2016, 01:14:38 AM
Does your wife love you, or the idea she has of you? I find that kind of ultimatum poisonous, because as a transwoman, you are manipulated into believing you don't love her enough if you do the unavoidable: transitioning. Personally, I refused to be blackmailed in that way and helped her pack her bags.

I got the "if you loved me enough you wouldn't do this".  No, if I didn't love you enough I wouldn't care what you think or want to still be with you.  The response should be that if she loved me enough it wouldn't matter to her. 

Of course it's not that simple.  She wants me to be something I'm not (a man) and I want her to be something she is not (a lesbian).

Hopefully once we get past all the initial trauma and the feelings can be controlled long enough to rationally  talk things out we can work something out.

A somewhat  similar situation to the original post.  Hopefully you can get her to look at things from your perspective
(Mine has not yet).  Might not change her mind but maybe can get her to see how much not transitioning is hurting you.



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Quote from: Eleonore on October 19, 2016, 06:16:36 AM
I feel lost and don't know what to do... My wife gave me the very hard ultimatum "transition or a life with her" some month ago, during this time, I was on HRT some weeks and most day's I felt happier than ever in my life before. I was happy about the changes, I was happy about the first mistakes and uncertainties from people I didn't know. I continued HRT for some weeks and tried to think about what I'll do...

I love her, she's the circle of my life. So I stopped my transition. Stopped HRT. Stopped wearing clothes I liked. And focused on giving her the "man" back, she married - the military-muscle-karate-guy she loved... I forced my brain to feel comfortable in my body and my life, and it worked. We were happy together, like we used to be before. 3-4 weeks later, I started to feel uncomfortable, jealous and sad again. The depression came back. Day by day stronger. The need to restart my transition again came back...

I didn't talk to anyone yet about the last weeks. I don't know what to do... I feel so lost, and can't find any solution for me. The only thing I know and I will hold on is, that I'm not going to lie to my wife again, and I'll not do anything behind her back...

Hi Eleonore,

Going through the same thing right now.  I stopped my low dose E about a week ago.  I just couldn't take the distance with my wife anymore.  I also kept looking at all the energy I would need to transition in my mid-50s.  Maybe I've been worn down by all the conflict, but I look at the long list of things I would need to do and it makes me almost ill.  So basically it wasn't all my wife.  Going off E just seemed easier.

For the first few days it felt like I could do it but it seems to slowly be creeping back into my brain again.  When I started feeling that agitation,  the impatience, the lack of calmness I had to reach for an E to calm myself down.  I really don't know if I can do this but I don't know if I can handle transition either.  Geez I hate this.

This is so tough.  I really feel for you Eleonore,
Paige :)

Quote from: TonyaW on October 28, 2016, 10:58:00 AM
Of course it's not that simple.  She wants me to be something I'm not (a man) and I want her to be something she is not (a lesbian).

I don't think the desire to transition is identical to wanting your partner to be lesbian,

Quote from: Naomi71 on October 28, 2016, 05:39:26 PM
I don't think the desire to transition is identical to wanting your partner to be lesbian,

No, not exactly  but its similar in that her asking me not to transition and me asking her to become a lesbian, we are both asking the other to go against how we identify.  I can't make her attracted to women any more than she can make me not be one.

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I have a similar situation. I have tried to get my wife to go to therapy with me but she seems to think it's the therapists fault that I feel this way. My therapist has asked me all the hard questions and asked my do I think this or that will work. She definitely has not pushed me in any way. I to have started HRT and am on a medium to low dose. My wife lets me go out dressed on occasion but does not want me to go full time. She does not want to see me dressed or acting feminine. She has asked me to stop the HRT if I get to the point that any further changes in my body would be irreversible. I don't think I will be able to stop. I feel so much better since starting HRT 3 months ago and my breasts started budding about 3 weeks ago. I have not told my wife about that and can't bring myself to do so. Another month and it will probably be to hard to keep hiding.

I don't think this ever goes away. I am tired of living a lie so it is looking more and more like my marriage will be ending within another year or less. We need to do what is best for our own health.

Quote from: Dena on October 19, 2016, 08:25:57 AM
You might explain to your wife that it may have appeared perfect to her but she has at least in part been attracted to the feminine side of you. In your case while you love her you have been uncomfortable before and after the marriage suppressing this part of you. I suspect she will be blind to the discomfort you were suffering as people who can fully empathize with others are rare but at least you will have tried.

A lot of transwoman were ultra masculine before transition so you cant blame their wife's that they are suprised and a lot of them did not fall in love with a feminine side.

Everyone has it. But thats another discussion. It has nothing to do with gender ID.
And its really too much to ask for understanding from someone who fell in love with a man and not a woman.
Out of respect for your partner...just leave.

She does not owe you anything

Hiya Ladies.

I feel a little lost too.  I've read all of your stories here, and I am filled with a burning desire to shower you all with love.  I feel lost because I don't know how to express my love for you all in a way that might be genuinely felt.

It has been 18 years since the love of my life dumped me to find a "real man".  It has been 18 years since transitioned became my Beloved salvation.  In spite of my present marriage of 9 years to a woman that I love very much, the love I feel for my first wife (who I have not talked to in many years) is as strong and bitter-sweet as ever. 

I don't dwell on the regret of her leaving me, and I haven't for many, many years, but I won't lie and pretend that I don't wish the love of my life had not left me. 

I tell you this with all sincerity and not a shred a doubt; if she and I had stayed together, and if I had chosen not to transition all those years ago, my first wife would have buried me a long time ago and I would not be around to share this feeling of love that I'm experiencing for all of you.

I love you!  I love you!  I love you!  I know it's cliché, but life is hard choices.  Do what you must to cultivate peace of mind within yourself.  And if those who promised to love you always and forever forget their promise and lose their way, well love them anyway.  The act of loving them anyway will keep the welcome mat out for love to find you again.

And in the meantime, I love you!

Miharu