Susan's Place Transgender Resources

So I am gonna start on micronized progesterone really soon to help my breast development. I wanted to ask everyone of your experiences. If it's creally useful at femininzing the body or if it is ineffective.

I honestly hope it gives a boot in my breast development because estrogen has definitely been not enough. Besides that, what other effects did you notice on P?

Thank you

You might look at this thread. (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,215476.0.html)

Yes not only breast development but also with gaining weight if you're on the skinny side this is a plus I guess, it was for me. So I had ideal body fat redistribution. I got my curves but still remain thin.

Quote from: Lady_Oracle on October 27, 2016, 07:27:39 AM
Yes not only breast development but also with gaining weight if you're on the skinny side this is a plus I guess, it was for me. So I had ideal body fat redistribution. I got my curves but still remain thin.

Thanks :)  do you feel like you areola changed? Becoming bigger and darker? Or just breast volume? And when did you start noticing the changes?

My areolas and nips changed a lot. Tripled in size, are puffy and are a dark brown/black from being a very light shade of brown/tan. Around 6 months or so is when I noticed the changes but it wasn't until like year 3 that I saw another growth spurt in my areola/nipples and more montgomery glands form.   

I was wondering this as well.  My doctor prescribed micronized progesterone but mentioned that the effects are very YMMV.  I've read that progesterone can possibly have a androgenic effect but some women swear by it while others claim that it did nothing for them other than give them headaches, mood swings, and other negative effects.  Also, some women say that you should cycle it to mimic the effects of a cis female's menstrual while others say that it's best to take it regularly.

One thing I really worry about is the androgenic effect that it could possibly have.  Although I would love to develop a bit more in the hips and chest area, In the end, I threw away the prescription even though I'm flat as a board and built like a wooden plank  :laugh:

Quote from: winterkat on October 28, 2016, 03:54:21 PM
I've read that progesterone can possibly have a androgenic effect

Not true.

Hum Reprod. 1999 Mar;14(3):606-10.

"Natural progesterone is devoid of any androgenic activity that might compromise lipoprotein metabolism or induce teratogenicity. "

It is prescribed to pregnant women. Androgenic substances are contraindicated in pregnant women as they can harm a female fetus.

Contraception. 1987 Oct;36(4):373-402.

"An oral micronized preparation of progesterone is now available which produces adequate plasma and tissue levels of progesterone. The preparation reproduces the anti-estrogenic effect of the natural hormone on the endometrium (...). It also reproduces the anti-mineralocorticoid effect and has no androgenic action. No side effects have been reported as far as lipids profile, coagulation factors and blood pressure are concerned."

Also,

Fertil Steril. 2002 Jun;77(6):1125-7.
Effect of oral micronized progesterone on androgen levels in women with polycystic ovary syndrome.

"The mean values of TT, FT, SHBG, DHEAS, A4, and 17-OHP did not change with OMP administration."

"We conclude that the administration of OMP (...) to induce withdrawal bleeding in women with PCOS does not significantly alter circulating androgen or 17-OHP levels, and can be used to time blood sampling in these patients."

The dose of oral progesterone prescribed in this study is higher than what is typically prescribed to transsexual women.

Contraception 62 (2000) 29–38

« The effects of drospirenone and progesterone on androgen-, glucocorticoid-, and mineralocorticoid-receptor–mediated induction of transcription were also evaluated using in vitro transactivation assays [10]. These assays were performed in CV-1 cells transfected with either androgen or glucocorticoid receptors and a reporter plasmid containing mouse mammary tumor promotor virus or COS 1 cells transfected with mineralocorticoid receptor and the identical viral promotor [10]. The results showed that(1) drospirenone and progesterone inhibit aldosterone-induced mineralocorticoid activity and weakly induce reporter gene transcription on their own; (2) both progestogens have no androgenic activity but display antiandrogenic activity in terms of inhibition of androgen-receptor–mediated transcription in a dose-dependent manner [10]. »

BUT, in Table 2, progesterone is shown to have negligible anti-androgenic effect at therapeutic doses.

Quotesome women swear by it while others claim that it did nothing for them other than give them headaches, mood swings, and other negative effects.

Some women don't take a high enough dose to see significant results as bio-availability is quite poor, taken orally, around 5%. Food increases absorption. Be sure to differentiate between progesterone and other progestogens which have very different effects. To be fair though, even progesterone can sometimes has some not so pleasant effects like headaches or mood swings. Personally, it improves my mood, helps me sleep better, makes my skin (and hair) smoother, softer, younger looking, increases the size of my breasts, areolas and nipples. I'm quite happy with it. I take a high dose.

QuoteAlso, some women say that you should cycle it to mimic the effects of a cis female's menstrual while others say that it's best to take it regularly.

There is nothing natural about cycles. They can lead to mood swings. Even progesterone taken regularly will result in ups and downs in levels as half-life is quite short.

QuoteOne thing I really worry about is the androgenic effect that it could possibly have.

See above. I take a high dose of progesterone and since beginning that treatment, my body hair has actually become sparser, thinner and much less overall. My face has also feminized more. Absolutely no signs of androgenization, my T is lower than ever before.

Some other progestogens are androgenic, not progesterone.

QuoteIn the end, I threw away the prescription even though I'm flat as a board and built like a wooden plank  :laugh:

Based on hearsay, probably. Progesterone may help with increased fat deposition and breast growth.

I'm not a doctor. Please always check with your doctor. :)

Thank you for all that info!  You have really piqued my interest.  Speaking of which, do you have any experience with bio-identical progesterone creams?  I was looking at pro-gest which I've read good things about.

It absorbs really poorly.

Menopause. 2013 Nov;20(11):1169-75
Percutaneous progesterone delivery via cream or gel application in postmenopausal women: a randomized cross-over study of progesterone levels in serum, whole blood, saliva, and capillary blood

The serum levels of progesterone were, on average, with cream and gel (doses comparable to oral), 
0.5 ng/ml (Cmax of 0.6 ng/ml) and 0.35 ng/ml (Cmax of 0.4 ng/ml), respectively, during a 24 hour period.

On comparable dose with oral progesterone, in another study, Cmax was found to be 17.3 ng/ml and average levels to be 4.33 ng/ml for the first 10 hours.

As you can see, topically applied progesterone is poorly transferred to the blood.

So I read the study that you cited:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23652031

Quote
CONCLUSIONS:
After application of topical progesterone, saliva and capillary blood levels are approximately 10-fold and 100-fold greater, respectively, than those seen in serum or whole blood. High capillary blood and saliva levels indicate high absorption and transport of progesterone to tissues. Reliance on serum levels of progesterone for monitoring topical dose could lead to underestimation of tissue levels and consequent overdose.

So it seems like creams and gels actually absorb well based on the study.  What do you think about pills?  Since a large portion of it gets digested.

Also, what is your take on when someone should start on progesterone? 

Blood transports hormones to tissues throughout the body so I disagree with their conclusions. The fact that concentrations in the blood (or serum) are so low indicates to me that very little will go to the rest of tissues in the body. It may however affect the local tissue to which it is applied. That is another story. If your goal is to have an overall effect, then I'm not sure topical is the way to go but that is my opinion, I'm not a doctor. I personally wouldn't spend my hard earned dollars on a cream/gel and instead take something where levels actually increase in the blood. :) I'm me, you are you. To each their own.

I take a high dose of progesterone with FOOD (and grapefruit, as allowed by my doctors since I don't take other medications). Both of these increase the rate of absorption of progesterone and my levels are very good. I enjoy its effects.

In one study, at the same dose, maximum progesterone levels (Cmax) when taken with food were 4 to 8 fold higher. Over 24 hours, the concentration was double what it was relative to the fasting state. You need to talk about all this with a doctor before doing anything.

Some women start progesterone quite early during their transition, some later. Whether one is better than the other is debatable but some argue taking it too soon may somewhat oppose estrogen, better to give estrogen some time to do its thing, it's how nature works as well during puberty...so it's something you need to discuss with your doctor.

Good luck. :)

I'm taking my progesterone rectally, which bypasses the digestive tract. I noticed my breasts became more tender after the switch. Progesterone is supplied as suppositories by the drug companies for vaginal or rectal use. The gel caps work fine, too.