Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hello,

I'm 22 years old, and I'd like to ask people with experience on here on if HRT would have a good effect on my face, and if my bone structure is any good. I know my nose is too big, that bothers me, but could anyone give me some tips on what makeup to use or anything.

Thanks,

Cire

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv396%2FCireOnivlas%2FDSC07029.jpg&hash=f9e2fc3605d135d7fd285894bc2ef130322e1384)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv396%2FCireOnivlas%2FDSC07032.jpg&hash=9242b033bf0ce7ef8f3763352ea79b06dea32fa1)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv396%2FCireOnivlas%2FDSC07028.jpg&hash=c382f70076c9e995c39e78f971bfc1986a9ef9b0)

Noone here is an authority on what you'll look like during and after HRT.
You look fine right now though.
Plenty of chicks have big noses.

I'm hardly an expert, but it seems to me that the MtFs who have trouble with inadequate facial changes are girls cursed with heavy, square jaws. You've got a very feminine jawline already. I bet you'll look great. And your nose is fine. I can think of three women, all beautiful, who have noses similar in shape and size to yours.

HRT will soften the face,give a degree of fat redistrubtion.

To make an assessment of facial features,you need the hair of your forehead and a close up of your face frontal and from both side angles as well as the oblique shots.

Rebecca

You look like you ARE on HRT... your features are already rounded and smooth...

(jealous)

I think you're gonna do just fine ;)

~Kate~

Cire,
I've read back over your previous posts, and you're WAY too hard on yourself.  I think with longer hair, feminine glasses, HRT, and electrolysis (you look like you're a good candidate for laser, instead - good for you!), you'll be very close to totally passable.  In essence, I don't even think you'll need FFS unless you want it for your nose. 

I admire you for what you're doing - losing weight, investigating wearing a corset to get your waist down to a more feminine size, and so on.  Just keep up the good work - and that includes going to a therapist to work out the issues as they arise.

Carol

HRT doesn't change facial feature's, the most it can do it create a bit more fat around the face.....If you want to change your face you will need FFS..

Quote from: Berliegh on November 05, 2007, 09:07:30 AM
HRT doesn't change facial feature's, the most it can do it create a bit more fat around the face...

Wait... isn't that same thing? Moving fat around IS changing facial features, isn't it? HRT moves it from traditionally male locations to traditionally female locations... creating a more female appearance.

~Kate~

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi111.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn125%2FBelladonna_06%2Fwtfbuiscuits.jpg&hash=457fc6e821c4defa1ec14af5b907ddcca1e95670)
what hrt did to me ^_^
changes you a lot, or not much, your young, and soft featured, youll do well i wager.
R :police:

Quote from: Kate on November 05, 2007, 09:24:16 AM

Quote from: Berliegh on November 05, 2007, 09:07:30 AM
HRT doesn't change facial feature's, the most it can do it create a bit more fat around the face...

Wait... isn't that same thing? Moving fat around IS changing facial features, isn't it? HRT moves it from traditionally male locations to traditionally female locations... creating a more female appearance.

~Kate~

No it only changes or increases fat, it doesn't change bone structure. I think too much can be expected from hormones. Otherwise why do all these FFS surgeons get a lot of work?

Quote from: Berliegh on November 05, 2007, 10:08:14 AM

Quote from: Kate on November 05, 2007, 09:24:16 AM

Quote from: Berliegh on November 05, 2007, 09:07:30 AM
HRT doesn't change facial feature's, the most it can do it create a bit more fat around the face...

Wait... isn't that same thing? Moving fat around IS changing facial features, isn't it? HRT moves it from traditionally male locations to traditionally female locations... creating a more female appearance.

~Kate~

No it only changes or increases fat, it doesn't change bone structure. I think too much can be expected from hormones. Otherwise why do all these FFS surgeons get a lot of work?

Changing fat around changes your features, having a smaller stomach and wider hips and thighs is a gender difference, so that'd be helping to make you pass. It increases fat in the female areas, and lets you lose fat in the male areas. Same with your face, you lose fat in male areas, and gain in female parts.

FFS is such a nice option because hormones can't do alot. They soften your male face, not change it into a female face. Like the difference between making a little fake cleavage (squeeze together) and getting implants, the implants are much more effective at looking like the female thing!

seriously, look up.... ive had no ffs. thats all hormones... and 10 months at that...

R :police:

Quote from: Cire on November 05, 2007, 10:30:43 AM
FFS is such a nice option because hormones can't do alot. They soften your male face, not change it into a female face.

FFS is more effective for sure, but HRT alone CAN give you a female face... if by that we mean the ability to walk outside, without makeup or any other "props," and consistently be seen by everyone as a female.

~Kate~

I've never seen HRT make any average-looking guy into a supermodel, though it makes the face you have a bit softer and more feminine.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

The pics are not the best. To really take a look the pic should be closer up and include profile shots.

It does not matter much anyway. If having an inadequate facial features is enough to make someone not transition, then transition probably was not for you anyway. Plus there are so many other factors that will appear to change your face:  a flattering hair style, the softening mentioned, mayhaps losing or a redistro of fat....

I'll be taking better pictures when I do lose some weight, and I'll see where I'm at.

I'm busy growing out my hair at the moment, but I do need new glasses (these pair are over 3 years old). Anyone have a recommendation about what kind of shape frame I should go for in order to have a more feminine look to me?

I apologize about the female face comment, I was talking about the underlying structure and not if the face is passible.

If HRT worked we would probably have more people showing their faces......but as it it's mostly just Rachael, Keira and me who post our real photographs (and I don't think HRT made much difference to me)..

You have soft features and no hard angles or edges. You'll make an adorable girl. And I LOVE the nose. It's distinctive and beautiful. To change it would be a tragedy. Beauty is only as good as its uniqueness.
But if it does make you self-conscious, some makeup tips:

Take some concealer or foundation darker than your skin tone and blend down the sides of your nose.

Some lighter concealer or foundation placed horizontally across your nose.

Blend, blend, blend!

Quote from: Nero on November 05, 2007, 01:44:48 PM
You have soft features and no hard angles or edges. You'll make an adorable girl. And I LOVE the nose. It's distinctive and beautiful. To change it would be a tragedy. Beauty is only as good as its uniqueness.

Thanks darling! I've been fairly lucky with the raw material....

Quote from: Berliegh on November 05, 2007, 01:31:05 PM
If HRT worked...

We each need to define "worked" for ourselves. What you see as a failure might be a miracle for others. It's up to Cire to decide for herself how much change she needs in order to live the life she needs. HRT *will* change her appearance... whether or not it's enough, only she can answer.

~Kate~

Quote from: Berliegh on November 05, 2007, 01:51:28 PM

Quote from: Nero on November 05, 2007, 01:44:48 PM
You have soft features and no hard angles or edges. You'll make an adorable girl. And I LOVE the nose. It's distinctive and beautiful. To change it would be a tragedy. Beauty is only as good as its uniqueness.

Thanks darling! I've been fairly lucky with the raw material....

Oh, I was talking about Cire. But you already make such a lovely girl. You could be my cousin Mindy's twin. you have the same look - perky, girlish, adorable. You could never need any additional help.

Quote from: Berliegh on November 05, 2007, 01:31:05 PM
If HRT worked we would probably have more people showing their faces......but as it it's mostly just Rachael, Keira and me who post our real photographs (and I don't think HRT made much difference to me)..

me too  :P

Quote from: Kat on November 06, 2007, 09:09:29 AM

Quote from: Berliegh on November 05, 2007, 01:31:05 PM
If HRT worked we would probably have more people showing their faces......but as it it's mostly just Rachael, Keira and me who post our real photographs (and I don't think HRT made much difference to me)..

me too  :P

and you too.... ;)

ok, established theres a few, so its clear it can, nomatter what people say, and winge about, AGE has a masive factor on its effectiveness, and speed. simply due to faster growth and less change when your younger.
but hey, it worked on me for sure, say all you like about angles lost in time, theres a massive difference to the tune of friends from a year ago dont recognise me....
R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on November 06, 2007, 10:46:44 AM
AGE has a masive factor on its effectiveness, and speed.

Proof? Studies? Polls?

I don't believe it. It just doesn't seem to be verified according to what "older" TSs post... including myself.

~Kate~

Quote from: Kate on November 06, 2007, 10:55:24 AM

Quote from: Rachael on November 06, 2007, 10:46:44 AM
AGE has a masive factor on its effectiveness, and speed.

Proof? Studies? Polls?

I don't believe it. It just doesn't seem to be verified according to what "older" TSs post... including myself.

~Kate~

Age isn't an issue really, but if HRT worked efficiently why are there so many transsexuals around who look like blokes?

Quote from: Berliegh on November 06, 2007, 11:33:57 AM
Age isn't an issue really, but if HRT worked efficiently why are there so many transsexuals around who look like blokes?

For that matter, I could ask, "if HRT is so inefficient, why are there so many transsexuals who look like ordinary women?"

It's not an IT WORKS FOR EVERYONE or IT DOESNT WORK FOR ANYONE sorta thing. It works well for some people, and barely at all for others. Predicting who'll benefit from it though seems impossible. Some older TSs respond well. Some younger ones don't. You just never know what's going to happen.

I just don't want anyone who's wrestling with the thoughts of a transition to read those rather bleak opinions (doesn't work when old, doesn't work for anyone anyway, etc.) and lose hope. Some people respond, some don't. There's just no way to know until you try.

~Kate~

Quote from: Kate on November 06, 2007, 11:47:24 AM
For that matter, I could ask, "if HRT is so inefficient, why are there so many transsexuals who look like ordinary women?"

It's not an IT WORKS FOR EVERYONE or IT DOESNT WORK FOR ANYONE sorta thing. It works well for some people, and barely at all for others. Predicting who'll benefit from it though seems impossible. Some older TSs respond well. Some younger ones don't. You just never know what's going to happen.

I just don't want anyone who's wrestling with the thoughts of a transition to read those rather bleak opinions (doesn't work when old, doesn't work for anyone anyway, etc.) and lose hope. Some people respond, some don't. There's just no way to know until you try.

~Kate~

I fully understand and take on board about not giving out bleak opinions but at the same time we do need to be realistic about this.

I think we all need to be more realistic about the true limitations of transition and I know it might seem negative but we are all guilty of not putting our cards on the table and saying what does and doesn't work on us as individials. This is a much better forum than many others in a similar capacity and this is due to people being more honest about their own experiences of being both good and bad.

Quote from: Kate on November 06, 2007, 11:47:24 AM

Quote from: Berliegh on November 06, 2007, 11:33:57 AM
Age isn't an issue really, but if HRT worked efficiently why are there so many transsexuals around who look like blokes?

For that matter, I could ask, "if HRT is so inefficient, why are there so many transsexuals who look like ordinary women?"

It's not an IT WORKS FOR EVERYONE or IT DOESNT WORK FOR ANYONE sorta thing. It works well for some people, and barely at all for others. Predicting who'll benefit from it though seems impossible. Some older TSs respond well. Some younger ones don't. You just never know what's going to happen.

I just don't want anyone who's wrestling with the thoughts of a transition to read those rather bleak opinions (doesn't work when old, doesn't work for anyone anyway, etc.) and lose hope. Some people respond, some don't. There's just no way to know until you try.

~Kate~

I promised I wasn't going to post for a while...

I think it's more what you've got to work with beforehand than age. I've seen some really gorgeous, completely passable mature ladies and some really unpassable 20 somethings. A lot of it's bone structure.  Bones, facial shape, body, and age all factor into it.

Kate: hormone therapy has a more significant effect on younger patients... according to the new british SOC. the following are listed:
greater likelihood of tanner V breast growth.
if under 24, increased likelihood of minor bone structure change.
Facial hair and vocal change reversal (ive had this)

earlier cessation of androgens is likely to reduce the 'damage' to the body
higher levels of human growth hormone present in the under 24s also is a factor.

I am not saying hrt is non functional in older transitioners, it isnt...
nor am i saying that all 20 somethings are 100% passable babes, while the 40+ lot are men in dresses, this isnt the case.
But as someone who was pre hrt, completely unpassable, to someone who is fairly happy with her appearance now. i have yet to see the level of change in an older transitioner, compared with a young transitioner.
R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on November 06, 2007, 08:47:56 PM
Kate: hormone therapy has a more significant effect on younger patients... according to the new british SOC. the following are listed:
greater likelihood of tanner V breast growth.
if under 24, increased likelihood of minor bone structure change.
Facial hair and vocal change reversal (ive had this)

earlier cessation of androgens is likely to reduce the 'damage' to the body
higher levels of human growth hormone present in the under 24s also is a factor.

I am not saying hrt is non functional in older transitioners, it isnt...
nor am i saying that all 20 somethings are 100% passable babes, while the 40+ lot are men in dresses, this isnt the case.
But as someone who was pre hrt, completely unpassable, to someone who is fairly happy with her appearance now. i have yet to see the level of change in an older transitioner, compared with a young transitioner.
R :police:

There's an awful lot of truth in that.....

A lot of people don't post pictures because this is the internet.
This is a transexual message board on the internet.
And a lot of people with post-HRT successes are trying to not to be unmasked.

I don't think I'll ever post a facial shot here. Or anywhere connecting the two lives.

and some people dont have two halves... or pretend to have experience of things.
i think the only people you can TRUST are the ones who are BRAVE enough to show thier face...
R :police:

And we know everyone who has a photograph posted is showing themselves?  *looks at Nero's avatar* hm, think not.

Basically everything in this thread is hearsay, unless you show some scientific evidence beyond "It's happened to me".

I've seen gorgeous passing older TS's and some younger ones, (teenagers) that can't 'pull it off' as it were.

Passing isn't even completely visual, so you can be the prettiest person on the block and still act like a bull in a china shop.  It isn't fair to take someones hesitance to post a facial shot as 'they don't pass well', there are dozens of reasons to NOT show post RL pictures over the internet.  Especially if you plan on going stealth later.  Just because some people have more responsibility regarding their identity doesn't mean they don't pass.

Alison: note their picture, not A picture....
To be honest, passing CAN be all visual. if you look nothing but female, nobody is going to take you for male if you act yobish, or in a masculine way. they will see a female acting masculine.... Plus being mistaken for a man, and not passing, are two different things ENTIRELY. Behaviour has a minimal influence on peoples opinions of gender.
If you would care to look at the UK SOC (link removed - dosage information) you will see the evidence i referenced above with regards to HRT effects. (zomg someone actually backed up a statement in this topic!)
Obviously if you know better than the Leading specialists in GID treatment in the UK, feel free to let me know....
as far as scientific evidence goes, theres some, and as i braved showing my face. there is an example. I honestly ask you to tell me that those two faces look like the same person. Because you would be doing something that people ive known IRL cant manage...
R :police:

QuoteAlison: note their picture, not A picture....

You realize I could post -any- picture I find, and tell you it's me right?  You would have no idea if I was being truthful.

QuoteTo be honest, passing CAN be all visual. if you look nothing but female, nobody is going to take you for male if you act yobish, or in a masculine way. they will see a female acting masculine.... Plus being mistaken for a man, and not passing, are two different things ENTIRELY. Behaviour has a minimal influence on peoples opinions of gender.

Since when?  You might be purely concerned about looks, but I take personality into account.

QuoteIf you would care to look at the UK SOC (LINK)
you will see the evidence i referenced above with regards to HRT effects. (zomg someone actually backed up a statement in this topic!)

I edited out your link, there was dosage information within, you know better then that Rachael.

Nonetheless, I read through the section on HRT and didn't find the statements you were referring to, if you could specify a page number or section number?

And about 'two faces looking like the same person' ....  Which two faces are you talking about?

i meant the one on the previous page i posted of myself.
About the document: ill find the reference later and add it, and as for the dosage info, woops! i've not slept in 29 hours, and im getting sloppy. i apologize.
passing: personality yes, true, my fixations are entirely physical because i have no issues with my behavior or personality. that is all natural to me. But it still stands, a woman can sit like a guy, behave like a guy, and 'slob' it. heck, wear jeans and a tee, and i guarantee nobody will think she IS a man... (obviously we are suggesting she has female hair, and features here) so physical appearance can lead to said lady passing as female with no issues. again, an individual who looks like a trucker (male)with stubble, and short hair, no matter how femininely they act, or sound, or display female mannerisms, i guarantee they are taken as male. passing is mostly audio visual, you may take personality into account, but youd just go 'hmm shes blokey', about the masculine woman... personality isnt going to do much if the individual looks, dresses male, you aint gonna think thier a woman...

on the photos: how likely are you to have several photos of the same random person to pretend to be? last person who tried to do that slipped up by posting one of the person and their real self (it was their ex gf!) :P
R :police:

Quote from: Autumn on November 08, 2007, 03:34:22 AM
A lot of people don't post pictures because this is the internet.
This is a transexual message board on the internet.
And a lot of people with post-HRT successes are trying to not to be unmasked.

I don't think I'll ever post a facial shot here. Or anywhere connecting the two lives.

.....what is this two lives?

Quote from: Rachael on November 08, 2007, 05:21:30 AM
and some people dont have two halves... or pretend to have experience of things.
i think the only people you can TRUST are the ones who are BRAVE enough to show thier face...
R :police:

That's right Rachael, (and this part of the forum catagory is TS).... If you are TS you are one person and live as a woman all the time, not someone who is living two lives and scared to get found out by whoever....

i wont deny both are me, i was just having a bad hair day on the first! (for bad read aweful)
R :police:

Quote from: Cire on November 05, 2007, 12:21:09 PM
I'll be taking better pictures when I do lose some weight, and I'll see where I'm at.

I'm busy growing out my hair at the moment, but I do need new glasses (these pair are over 3 years old). Anyone have a recommendation about what kind of shape frame I should go for in order to have a more feminine look to me?

Most frames these days are fairly androgenous as it is.  Best thing to do is ask the person to help you find one that fits your face best.

Posted on: November 08, 2007, 04:08:17 PM

---

Jumping way late in to the turn this thread has taken...

There are just to many variables to conclusively draw a line in the sand as to who and who won't get maximal benefit from HRT.  Yes age is a factor, but so is genetics, lifestyle, general health status, etc.  Generalizations can be made and its probably safe to argue that yes the younger someone starts HRT, etc the better off they are, but HRT is not the make or break of a successful transition.

While younger transitioners can stake their claim on improved results from HRT vs the older crowd, never forget that while you waited until after 18 to transition and have nearly 20 years of male upbringing to unlearn, there are more and more MtFs going full time in grade school or earlier.  Who has the better hand now?

I've seen plenty of TS at all ages who because of looks, behavior, vibe whatever ring false.

One thing I find funny. Younger TS are so cocky about how they look, pass, sound, etc. I think to mask their insecurity. At my age, I don't feel like masking them. When I ask them what kind of exposure they've got, I actually find they're much more insecure than me.
I meet with and talk hundreds of people a day for work and whatever. That's because I am gregarious and live in a dense urban setting.

Right now, I'm really putting myself out there. I'm in a public relations graduate level course and I every course is about debate and public speaking in front of a class of 20 women 10 men (in PR, there's a lot more women than men in University). So, I've got to speak on various subjects in front of people who are there to look at me every single week. The last assignment is assisting in the local PR launch for perfume and fashion line. They'll be journalists!!

I know, I'm skewing from the subject header. But, bear with me.


I wish other TS would put themselves in situation where they've got such a high risk of disclosure. I keep pushing myself and you know, the more I do, the more comfortable I am with myself. I love public speaking by the way (that's why I'm getting this graduate degree in PR to add to my engineering degree and graduate management degree).

Quote from: Cire on November 05, 2007, 12:21:09 PM
I'll be taking better pictures when I do lose some weight, and I'll see where I'm at.


While younger transitioners can stake their claim on improved results from HRT vs the older crowd, never forget that while you waited until after 18 to transition and have nearly 20 years of male upbringing to unlearn, there are more and more MtFs going full time in grade school or earlier.  Who has the better hand now?

i had a male upbringing, but i never had to unlearn a thing... my behaviour and personality is naturally female, id have gone ft in grade school, if my parents hadnt put me in an all boys school since 2... i simply couldnt learn to be male, it didnt matter weather i had been corrected the oposite way at birth, or transitioned at 20 it made no difference... SOME can go ft in school, it just depends on parents... and mine disowned me, i couldnt imagine being homless in my early teens...
R :police:


^{fixed quote - Nero}

Quote from: Rachael on November 08, 2007, 08:23:50 PM

Quote from: Cire on November 05, 2007, 12:21:09 PM
I'll be taking better pictures when I do lose some weight, and I'll see where I'm at.


While younger transitioners can stake their claim on improved results from HRT vs the older crowd, never forget that while you waited until after 18 to transition and have nearly 20 years of male upbringing to unlearn, there are more and more MtFs going full time in grade school or earlier.  Who has the better hand now?

i had a male upbringing, but i never had to unlearn a thing... my behaviour and personality is naturally female, id have gone ft in grade school, if my parents hadnt put me in an all boys school since 2... i simply couldnt learn to be male, it didnt matter weather i had been corrected the oposite way at birth, or transitioned at 20 it made no difference... SOME can go ft in school, it just depends on parents... and mine disowned me, i couldnt imagine being homless in my early teens...
R :police:

I concur completely with Rachael. Nature drowns nurture. The difference between someone who transitioned in grade school, and someone who transitioned in adulthood is that the former was spared years of anguish.
This isn't going to be true for everybody, of course.

I don't know if some TS have the condition more severely than others, or if it's personality differences, but some shed the wrong gender upbringing like snakeskin upon coming out, and some are too deeply ingrained in their birth sex to ever recover.

Quote from: Berliegh on November 08, 2007, 08:26:22 AM

Quote from: Autumn on November 08, 2007, 03:34:22 AM
A lot of people don't post pictures because this is the internet.
This is a transexual message board on the internet.
And a lot of people with post-HRT successes are trying to not to be unmasked.

I don't think I'll ever post a facial shot here. Or anywhere connecting the two lives.

.....what is this two lives?

I've been on the internet a long time. I've met many people in RL, will so again in the future, and hang out in a few online communities. There are some places online where I use my real name and photograph (with no trans connection.) There's my adult site profile, which I should pull down since there's really no reason for its existence (it is TS however.) There's also my family. And coworkers.

I have no desire for my 'private life' and the rest to meet, particularly if it isn't me doing it.

Believe it or not, I'm not alone. Some people in the post-op and the pre-treatment camps feel the same way.

Quote from: Nero on November 08, 2007, 09:04:01 PM

I concur completely with Rachael. Nature drowns nurture. The difference between someone who transitioned in grade school, and someone who transitioned in adulthood is that the former was spared years of anguish. This isn't going to be true for everybody, of course.

I don't know if some TS have the condition more severely than others, or if it's personality differences, but some shed the wrong gender upbringing like snakeskin upon coming out, and some are too deeply ingrained in their birth sex to ever recover.

I got my head kicked in most days at my london secondary school when I was 13 to 16. I came home with a split lip. facial cuts and covered in blood sometimes. Eight pairs of doctor martin boots kicking me in the head because they didn't like a feminine looking boy who looked like a girl. I was constantly challanged because of the way I looked and called 'girl'. It wasn't a pleasant experience. I also got bullied when I first started work at the age of 17...

I am still traumatised by my early years and it would have been much better for me to have transitioned in that period of my life. I could have moved schools and I could have had a better life. Insted I left school with no qualifications and a total agoraphobic..

I think things are easier these days and someone who is different is excepted far more easily that they would have been in the late 1970's.....

Thank everyone. This set of postings really helps. Oh and the avatar is a real picture of me. The best of about 30 shots.
I'm an over fifty and accord to what has been said here I will most likely always be seen as a man in a dress. I have slim to no chance to ever be on the outside what I am on the inside.
So I guess there is not much for us older TS people to look forward to.
Maybe we should just ............
Jillieann

um, if you actually read whats said here, instead of feeling hard done by... you might have noticed we said thats the steriotype... not the truth. just like all 20somethings arnt all babes...
relating hrt's effectiveness to age isnt suggesting it doesnt work for you. just that there is a sliding scale, which age effects in all things, fittness, fertility, healing rate...
so dont selectively read that were hating on old trans people because you want to feel hurt and hard done by.
R :police:

Quote from: Nero on November 06, 2007, 02:18:58 PM

Quote from: Kate on November 06, 2007, 11:47:24 AM

Quote from: Berliegh on November 06, 2007, 11:33:57 AM
Age isn't an issue really, but if HRT worked efficiently why are there so many transsexuals around who look like blokes?

For that matter, I could ask, "if HRT is so inefficient, why are there so many transsexuals who look like ordinary women?"

It's not an IT WORKS FOR EVERYONE or IT DOESNT WORK FOR ANYONE sorta thing. It works well for some people, and barely at all for others. Predicting who'll benefit from it though seems impossible. Some older TSs respond well. Some younger ones don't. You just never know what's going to happen.

I just don't want anyone who's wrestling with the thoughts of a transition to read those rather bleak opinions (doesn't work when old, doesn't work for anyone anyway, etc.) and lose hope. Some people respond, some don't. There's just no way to know until you try.

~Kate~

I promised I wasn't going to post for a while...

I think it's more what you've got to work with beforehand than age. I've seen some really gorgeous, completely passable mature ladies and some really unpassable 20 somethings. A lot of it's bone structure.  Bones, facial shape, body, and age all factor into it.

Jillieann,

It's all a combination of the bolded above. All people have been saying here is that age IS a factor. Natal males continue to masculinize further their whole lives, so how could it not be? And hormones have a better effect the younger one is.
But there are other factors, too. Some more mature ladies do better than some younger ladies because of bone structure, body type, facial shape - genetics.
Don't be so quick to take offense.

sometimes you feel you cant state the physically obvious, for fear of offending someone... ESPECIALLY on trans forums...
R :police:

Quote from: Jillieann on November 09, 2007, 06:03:49 AM
So I guess there is not much for us older TS people to look forward to.

Jillieann, you look great NOW!

And ya know, no one really knows what HRT will do for them until they give it a year or three. People panic when they don't see immediate results and start dispairing "this will never work for me." But it takes time.

For what it's worth, four of the TSs in my support group *started* transitioning in their 50s and 60s. One in their late 40s. And they ALL are perfectly, totally passable. In fact, I'd say that the OLDEST one of the group looks absolutely perfect.

I believe my eyes more than any "evidence."

~Kate~

Quote from: Jillieann on November 09, 2007, 06:03:49 AM
Thank everyone. This set of postings really helps. Oh and the avatar is a real picture of me. The best of about 30 shots.
I'm an over fifty and accord to what has been said here I will most likely always be seen as a man in a dress. I have slim to no chance to ever be on the outside what I am on the inside.
So I guess there is not much for us older TS people to look forward to.
Maybe we should just ............
Jillieann

Jillieann. you look like a woman with very short hair in the pic.......you have small facial feature's which always helps and you don't look 50..

Age is nothing to do with anything. I've seen cool looking TS's who are 50 and some not so cool TS's at 20........

Since I sort of got this tangent started, consider the pros and cons of transitioning early vs late anways...

For the, well really handful of young ones that are full time in grade school, I think I stated this somewhere earlier that their incongruence is so catastropic, they have no other choice if they don't intend to implode.  Sounds like nirvana, right?  Consider that they often aren't stealth since they didn't start grade school that way.  Its bad enough being known as "a girl with a dick" when you're an adult, imagine hearing that when you're 10.  Consider that most of them were so blatently suicidal and/or self mutilating before going FT that their parents were on a constant state of readiness to keep all the windows locked (becuase they'd explicitly threatened to jump out of the windows otherwise) and all sharp objects accounted for.  Imagine a panic attack so bad you turn blue.  Consider the threats not only they but their families get on a regular basis.  Have siblings?  Do you think they might just resent that you've more or less taken any sense of a "normal" childhood from them, do you think maybe they get threatened too and lose friends because of it?  If you're lucky you're only meeting with your therapist twice a week, you and your family. Don't think this is just about you.

Now on the other hand, they get to at least have childhood memories of growing up in the right gender, and as appealing as it may be, I wonder if its worth the trauma sometimes.

So wait until you're in your teens/early 20s to transistion.  I tried that (I was 23), even with a good job, its easy to burn through a lot of money, quickly.  Its not fun being broke and it not fun aborting your transition either, but money is a finite resource and its easy to ruin yourself financially if you don't have much of a safety cushion to begin with.  I'm getting away from myself, but its hard enough to mature from a teenager to an adult, let alone transition from one gender to the next.  True, many early transitioners succeed, but many also fail and pay the direst of consequences.

Wait until the early beginnings of your adulthood (25 - 35)?  Maybe a better idea, but you've got a whole working life ahead of you and very little of it behind you.  How will you explain yourself to your future employers, your future significant others.  The lack of assets is still a struggle, but at least, hopefully, you're educated and able to keep a roof over your head.  Maybe its better that way.  I don't know, just don't believe everything you hear that you have to transition before your 25 or you'll just be another man in a dress.  Oh and my favorite, here begins the argument between the younger ones and the older ones about who's really a TS, which is just to say "I'm more TS then you".  Who's side are you on?  You're too old for the college crowd and too young for the older crowd?

So you've lived a full life and you're tired of the constant struggle, but confident you have the financial resources to "make it work".  How about the loss of your relationships?  Divorce is expensive, so is losing that job that you were sure would be accepting of your transition.  Oh they didn't fire you for being TS, just so happens that after you started wearing a dress to work, your performance evaluations tanked as well.  Good luck finding a new job with a 20+ year career history as John, not Jane, to explain.

Ok so I'm overdramatizing a little, but there are pros and cons to the transition at each stage of life.  Its universal that we all struggle, but we are our own worst enemies.  And no matter what, even the 10 y/o's that are full time are going to look at the generation after them (that get treated no differently then anyother boy or girl) and think "they don't know how easy they've got it", just remember that the generation that came before you thinks the same thing about you.

I completely agree with you Enigma.  I used to hate myself and my life so much in high school that I graduated early and tries to run away from everything and everyone when I was 17.  Needless to say, it didn't work.  But what I'm trying to get here is that like you said, it's difficult to find a "right time" to transition.  Especially when your already on the verge of perhaps doing something stupid to yourself you know?  As much as I would have loved to transition when I was younger, I had no choice but to wait because it just wouldn't have worked.

And just when you get to that point where you can't live with this anymore and feel that it's appropriate, it's still a bad timing I think.  Despite me being done with college until September, I still have to go to a whole new school, and have no idea what to expect in 11 more months of HRT as well.  So, there are indeed pros and cons to this for sure, but in the end, hopefully it will all work out somehow.  I guess life being perfect for us is far out of the picture eh :P

And as for the teenage transition, I have to say I've been saving money for five years for this, and if it were't for my parents, it probably be gone in a heardbeat.  Not really poor planning, just this takes a lot of money as you all probably know.  So your right, every age group has a disadvantage, but sooner or later the time will come when you just have to do it you know?

Quote from: Enigma on November 09, 2007, 11:57:33 AM
Since I sort of got this tangent started, consider the pros and cons of transitioning early vs late anways...

For the, well really handful of young ones that are full time in grade school, I think I stated this somewhere earlier that their incongruence is so catastropic, they have no other choice if they don't intend to implode.  Sounds like nirvana, right?  Consider that they often aren't stealth since they didn't start grade school that way.  Its bad enough being known as "a girl with a dick" when you're an adult, imagine hearing that when you're 10.  Consider that most of them were so blatently suicidal and/or self mutilating before going FT that their parents were on a constant state of readiness to keep all the windows locked (becuase they'd explicitly threatened to jump out of the windows otherwise) and all sharp objects accounted for.  Imagine a panic attack so bad you turn blue.  Consider the threats not only they but their families get on a regular basis.  Have siblings?  Do you think they might just resent that you've more or less taken any sense of a "normal" childhood from them, do you think maybe they get threatened too and lose friends because of it?  If you're lucky you're only meeting with your therapist twice a week, you and your family. Don't think this is just about you.

Now on the other hand, they get to at least have childhood memories of growing up in the right gender, and as appealing as it may be, I wonder if its worth the trauma sometimes.

I think you're missing something. Some of us were exactly like the children you described, but we weren't so fortunate to grow up in a time such as this. The professionals certainly didn't suggest transition back then, and if they had, it's doubtful our parents would've went along with it.
Instead, I was diagnosed with all number of things in an attempt to explain my 'behavioural problems'.
Children who transition today are much better off than those of us who had to suffer through childhood as the wrong gender. Believe me, that's far more torturous than being lucky enough to be yourself at such a young age.

Quote from: Nero on November 09, 2007, 01:14:07 PM

I think you're missing something. Some of us were exactly like the children you described, but we weren't so fortunate to grow up in a time such as this. The professionals certainly didn't suggest transition back then, and if they had, it's doubtful our parents would've went along with it.
Instead, I was diagnosed with all number of things in an attempt to explain my 'behavioural problems'.
Children who transition today are much better off than those of us who had to suffer through childhood as the wrong gender. Believe me, that's far more torturous than being lucky enough to be yourself at such a young age.

I would agree with you there, I think more what I was trying to get at is no transition scenario is perfect.  Not only that, but there will always be the broad spectrum of transition expereience from 10 - 100 (ok well maybe not 100), simply becuase of the diversity of human beings.  A 10 year old today in an affirming enviroment can assert their true gender identity, or they can just as equally be terrified of the truth and wait until they're 100, despite the fact that all it takes to get all the love and support to transition successfully is saying "I'm a..."

Quote from: Kate on November 05, 2007, 10:50:07 AM

Quote from: Cire on November 05, 2007, 10:30:43 AM
FFS is such a nice option because hormones can't do alot. They soften your male face, not change it into a female face.

FFS is more effective for sure, but HRT alone CAN give you a female face... if by that we mean the ability to walk outside, without makeup or any other "props," and consistently be seen by everyone as a female.

~Kate~

I guess it just depends where you walk.

NOOOOOO!  Don't change anything!  You are beautiful! 

Chin up!

Cindi

For some Melissa, it doesn't depend on where you walk.
If you 5 foot 6 without significant brow bossing and a thin nose
and a small chin (height and width) and a small body frame (for a man), you don't need FFS to pass. I know plenty of TS who started at that level.

For others, sure, it depends where they walk.

For some, no matter where they walk its a problem (FFS is their only solution).

where you walk? ah, geographical passing :P
if i walk down this street, ill get read, this one, stealth street! :P
daft concept :P
and dont claim San Fransisco again, its only relevant if your borderline passable :P
Kiera is right, not everyone needs ffs, it depends on what you have :P you can only work with whats there... some people are just genetically lucky.
R :police:

Truthfullly, I would put FFS on the same level as any plastic surgery procedure.  Just my opinion, but I think "passing" as it applies to FFS is the really just the same as saying "I don't like the way I look".  Passing or not passing has relatively little to do with it in that regard.

Non-TS people get plastic surgery all the time to improve their looks, why not TS people?  At the end of the day, it takes more then FFS to "pass" anyways.

For the record, there are always exceptions...  :)

ffs sure helps, although i was in a club last night, hair plastered to my head, and passed fine, no ffs.... infact i got wolfwhistled when i left... so ffs isnt some necesery proceedure like grs...
R :police:

firstly, as this thread has derailed, to the O/P, hrt will do wonders for your face, you have a fairly fine jaw which will help heaps, also growing out your hair will do wonders too.

the problem with ffs to me is that the faces that have been touched they all look, not quite right to me, almost if they were too symmetrical, don't know why, also another promblem with ffs is that when i see the term ffs i think "for F***s sake"

but on the age and transition thing, well i transitioned at 31 after an abortive attempt when i was 20 (i may mention that later, but i know Rachael knows) I have been bloody lucky really. kinda went full time after 2 months of hrt, and now i'm pretty much done :)

it's luck half the time, and having decent support helps too

~I.V.

shes right. ivy's a hottie, but its irelevant, ive often found folk with plastic surgery on thier face pass worse.. its obvious, and people wonder why they had the surgery... what is most important, is looking female, not like a model... its gender dysphoria, not attractiveness dysphoria.
R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on November 14, 2007, 05:54:35 AM
ive often found folk with plastic surgery on thier face pass worse.. its obvious, and people wonder why they had the surgery...

I respectfully disagree.  Of course it can be overdone and that's not a pleasant look.  I more often see people who think they pass and I wonder why they don't do something about it.  It's called denial!  I think the best FFS procedures are ones that are very subtle.  (I say this as I recover from one of those subtle fixes.)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

Quote from: Rachael on November 14, 2007, 04:48:29 AM
ffs sure helps, although i was in a club last night, hair plastered to my head, and passed fine, no ffs.... infact i got wolfwhistled when i left... so ffs isnt some necesery proceedure like grs...
R :police:

I think its all relative.  For someone that "needs" FFS, they might feel the same way about GRS.  For others, simply having the right face might be more important then having the right genitals (other threads have already beat this to death).

Quote from: Rachael on November 14, 2007, 05:54:35 AM
shes right. ivy's a hottie, but its irelevant, ive often found folk with plastic surgery on thier face pass worse.. its obvious, and people wonder why they had the surgery... what is most important, is looking female, not like a model... its gender dysphoria, not attractiveness dysphoria.
R :police:

I spent a LOT of time (aka "was obsessed") early on talking with people who've had FFS and poking through endless before/after photos... and while results vary, the vast majority looked rather natural to me. Or at LEAST looked female. If it came down to it, I'd rather look like a female who "had something done" anyway, than be seen as a male, ya know?

On the other hand, for myself, I was thinking EXACTLY what you said: I don't want to risk ruining what I already have, either for beauty or 100% passability. A friend of mine says I'm in denial, and I WILL have FFS someday. But I don't think so. If I was being "sirred" everywhere and wasn't being seen as Kate in society, then sure... it'd be worth it. But residual male markers and all, my life now is still pretty neat ;)

~Kate~

Kate,

From your pics and the stories you have shared, you are certainly not one who would seem to need FFS.  Unless somehow it would improve your quality of life, it sounds like you are doing just great.  Why mess up a good thing?

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)
Kristi

I think there is a herd mentality that says you HAVE to have FFS.  Some people do, not everyone has to; but I think its lead more people to thinking they're not passable when they really are.  It just feeds in to the cash cow mentality that too many people exploit in the transition process.

We're all insecure on some level, tell me I NEED something, especially something that hits every aspect of my insecurites and I can't throw enough cash at you to make myself feel better.

I will never bother with FFS I know that I do not need it and it would just be a massive waste of money.

Even if I do not transition I am considering some FFS at some point.   To soften the lines,  adjust the hairline, and trachae shave.

Will I look like a women -- probably not.   

However I will not do this until my skin is smooth with Laser and ELectrolysis...

Daisy

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi111.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn125%2FBelladonna_06%2Fn61112399_35125648_5793.jpg&hash=dfa230facaa28894a03379aae22b7322f2ea1f35) i dont NEED it, but at some point i would consider getting my jaw smaller, not with a trans ffs specialist, but just as a woman, getting something she doesnt like changed, it doenst stop me passing, and some like it, but i dont, so i might at some point, have it hacked off...
ive no addams apple to cut of, no brow ridge, and nice cheakbones, so if i stop being such a fat heffer, ill be ok :P
R :police:

Quote from: Enigma on November 14, 2007, 08:57:42 AM

I think its all relative.  For someone that "needs" FFS, they might feel the same way about GRS.  For others, simply having the right face might be more important then having the right genitals (other threads have already beat this to death).

I've seen one really great ffs result, it was so subtle, though the girl who had it was kinda non conventual.

the issue with ffs that i've seen, and remember this is from what i have seen. is that it leaves a very symmetrical face, which always just doesn't look right.

it's just things that have been pointed out to me by makeup artists, when i was a (male) model*.

~I.V.

*on a side note, even though i i.d. as an androgyne, i have modeled as a female too, that was fun.

Quote from: Rachael on November 14, 2007, 02:16:16 PM
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi111.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn125%2FBelladonna_06%2Fn61112399_35125648_5793.jpg&hash=dfa230facaa28894a03379aae22b7322f2ea1f35) i dont NEED it, but at some point i would consider getting my jaw smaller, not with a trans ffs specialist, but just as a woman, getting something she doesnt like changed, it doenst stop me passing, and some like it, but i dont, so i might at some point, have it hacked off...
ive no addams apple to cut of, no brow ridge, and nice cheakbones, so if i stop being such a fat heffer, ill be ok :P
R :police:

Rachel --- it is hard for me to ever see as anything other than female..

Rachael's eyes are really good. Most Male to Female's struggle in the eye department and they hav eyes that are small and burried within the sockets (like mine). Also she has the right amount of fat in her face which is also a female trait. I struggle to get fat into my face and it remains too thin and boney.

I think the younger you are the more chance HRT will work on you...but there are also exceptions to the rule but it's usually the young who benefit.

Berliegh, you KNOW i dont lie, or beat around the bush, you look nothing but female from all of your pictures ive seen....

and your calling me fat! OMG:P
R :police:

Rachael -- she is not calling you FAT!!

You have just a little more than this guy which rounds out the lines:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cinema.com%2Fimage_lib%2F9191_rg005.jpg&hash=3ff178b56ff8fb2a8ba451022707e8150c279b12)

LOL!!!!

I like the way you did your Eyes....  I tried but just need a little more practice and my contacts in to be able to see what I am doing..

And I have no room to talk -- I got a double chin in a pic on this topic:
Topic: bored girls post pictures.   
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,22010.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,22010.0.html)

Daisy

i was just kidding :P

i did my eyes? :o its just a little liner and mascara, i dont like to go overboard, less is more, and i dont bother with foundation as my skin is awesum ^_^
R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on November 15, 2007, 06:57:41 AM
Berliegh, you KNOW i dont lie, or beat around the bush, you look nothing but female from all of your pictures ive seen....

and your calling me fat! OMG:P
R :police:

No, I'm not calling you fat but I am talking about fat re-distribution. Your fat re-distribution is amazing. You have female fat re - distribution instead of male fat distribution, it's nothing to do with actually being fat.

Quote from: Berliegh on November 09, 2007, 05:17:54 AM


I got my head kicked in most days at my london secondary school when I was 13 to 16. I came home with a split lip. facial cuts and covered in blood sometimes. Eight pairs of doctor martin boots kicking me in the head because they didn't like a feminine looking boy who looked like a girl. I was constantly challanged because of the way I looked and called 'girl'. It wasn't a pleasant experience. I also got bullied when I first started work at the age of 17...

I am still traumatised by my early years and it would have been much better for me to have transitioned in that period of my life. I could have moved schools and I could have had a better life. Insted I left school with no qualifications and a total agoraphobic..

I think things are easier these days and someone who is different is excepted far more easily that they would have been in the late 1970's.....

I too had a terrible time at school, not that I realised why I was being picked on as I was just acting as myself, not conciously trying to be feminine. OK from an early age I used to copy girls' behaviour, girls were my role models - I couldn't help it, that was how I was. Boys wanted to beat me up and the girls despised me - or just ignored me. So when I left school at 17 I made a concious effort to put it all behind me by acting macho - overcompensating if you like, and hey, I found that people like me as a guy and I was accepted, which made me feel good in that respect. But my wish to be a girl resurfaced time and time again through my life and I felt ashamed of being how I am.  Only in recent times have I been able to face up to the fact that I'm trans and it's OK and am belately trying to somehow put matters right.
Kimberleigh is right, although it's never going to be easy for anyone to transition, there is slightly more acceptance now insofar as transsexuality is recognised as a medical condition which is treatable, whereas in the 1950s/60s it was a taboo subject and lumped together with homosexuality (which was itself a criminal offence in Great Britain at that time).
L.

Quote from: louise000 on November 16, 2007, 05:59:09 AM

Quote from: Berliegh on November 09, 2007, 05:17:54 AM


I got my head kicked in most days at my london secondary school when I was 13 to 16. I came home with a split lip. facial cuts and covered in blood sometimes. Eight pairs of doctor martin boots kicking me in the head because they didn't like a feminine looking boy who looked like a girl. I was constantly challanged because of the way I looked and called 'girl'. It wasn't a pleasant experience. I also got bullied when I first started work at the age of 17...

I am still traumatised by my early years and it would have been much better for me to have transitioned in that period of my life. I could have moved schools and I could have had a better life. Insted I left school with no qualifications and a total agoraphobic..

I think things are easier these days and someone who is different is excepted far more easily that they would have been in the late 1970's.....

I too had a terrible time at school, not that I realised why I was being picked on as I was just acting as myself, not conciously trying to be feminine. OK from an early age I used to copy girls' behaviour, girls were my role models - I couldn't help it, that was how I was. Boys wanted to beat me up and the girls despised me - or just ignored me. So when I left school at 17 I made a concious effort to put it all behind me by acting macho - overcompensating if you like, and hey, I found that people like me as a guy and I was accepted, which made me feel good in that respect. But my wish to be a girl resurfaced time and time again through my life and I felt ashamed of being how I am.  Only in recent times have I been able to face up to the fact that I'm trans and it's OK and am belately trying to somehow put matters right.
Kimberleigh is right, although it's never going to be easy for anyone to transition, there is slightly more acceptance now insofar as transsexuality is recognised as a medical condition which is treatable, whereas in the 1950s/60s it was a taboo subject and lumped together with homosexuality (which was itself a criminal offence in Great Britain at that time).
L.

Hang on a minute, I didn't go to school in the 1950's or 1960's........I was talking about the mid to late 1970's and 80's.....

I don't know what it would have been like in the 1960's but it was probably more liberated with the long haired hippie generation than it was for me in the 1980's where if you had long hair you were really going against the grain..

Quote from: Berliegh on November 15, 2007, 05:02:30 AM
I struggle to get fat into my face and it remains too thin and boney.

From all the pics I've seen you have the right fat distribution on your face, your cheeks are well defined.  You have one of the most feminine and, if I may say so, pretty faces of anybody around here.

Quote from: Andra on November 16, 2007, 08:59:29 AM

Quote from: Berliegh on November 15, 2007, 05:02:30 AM
I struggle to get fat into my face and it remains too thin and boney.

From all the pics I've seen you have the right fat distribution on your face, your cheeks are well defined.  You have one of the most feminine and, if I may say so, pretty faces of anybody around here.

I'm surprised you say that. My face hasn't changed much over the years and looked the same before I started on hormones. My flat mate who lives at my house keeps telling me my face looks male?

I always thought I didn't look that bad and I think my nose and mouth is quite good but I've got a long way to go yet.

Quote from: Berliegh on November 16, 2007, 11:51:51 AM
I'm surprised you say that. My face hasn't changed much over the years and looked the same before I started on hormones.

Well, then maybe the reason it didn't change much was because it was *already* female?

QuoteMy flat mate who lives at my house keeps telling me my face looks male?

IMHO, the only valid test is The Public. If strangers consistent call you "miss," then you must look female, ya know?

~Kate~

Quote

IMHO, the only valid test is The Public. If strangers consistent call you "miss," then you must look female, ya know?

~Kate~

Absolutely

aye, people who know you fail at seeing the difference, same way we do...
R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on November 16, 2007, 12:19:00 PM
aye, people who know you fail at seeing the difference, same way we do...
R :police:

That's true..

I didn't imagine the monster that my post would start.

I've finally gotten the time to do a less angled shot of my face, hopefully this works better (though it still looks bad...).

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv396%2FCireOnivlas%2FFace.jpg&hash=a788582cfdc8123e31e6c40b9134f1d0cd7b9a01)

Can't wait until I start HRT. It's like waiting for Christmas...

I think you already have some feminine features --- hopefully HRT will blend these.

Daisy

You don't need much to look feminine, I suggest to take care your hair, maybe fake eyelashes helps you to, make some good make up and voi laaaa!!! I don't think the face is an issue here.

you do realise that for a young person, loads of makeup and false eyelashes etc just make you look more um, fake?
personally cire, you look ok, sort your facial hair, nuke your eyebrows, grow your hair, and youll look quite nice :)

R :police:

Quote from: Cire on November 18, 2007, 01:13:56 PM
I didn't imagine the monster that my post would start.

I've finally gotten the time to do a less angled shot of my face, hopefully this works better (though it still looks bad...).

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv396%2FCireOnivlas%2FFace.jpg&hash=a788582cfdc8123e31e6c40b9134f1d0cd7b9a01)

Can't wait until I start HRT. It's like waiting for Christmas...

HRT is not going to help your jaw much, other than that, your features are workable. But I would need clinical photos to judge, forehead, brow bossing etc..

Posted on: November 19, 2007, 08:13:59 PM

---

Quote from: Enigma on November 14, 2007, 08:57:42 AM

Quote from: Rachael on November 14, 2007, 04:48:29 AM
ffs sure helps, although i was in a club last night, hair plastered to my head, and passed fine, no ffs.... infact i got wolfwhistled when i left... so ffs isnt some necesery proceedure like grs...
R :police:

I think its all relative.  For someone that "needs" FFS, they might feel the same way about GRS.  For others, simply having the right face might be more important then having the right genitals (other threads have already beat this to death).

Quoting overrides the ignore feature. A wolf whistle is almost a sure sign of being clocked.

Quote from: melissa90299 on November 19, 2007, 07:16:12 PM

A wolf whistle is almost a sure sign of being clocked.

Unfortunately that is true Melissa.  :)

i don't mean to steer you one way or another, but i think you could end up being rather cute and attractive.

what? a wolf whistle means your clocked?
in that case, any woman wolfwhistled is evidently clocked... sounds like nonsense to me...
dont put everyone in the same boat... i was walking out of a club, at half 1... guys whistle all the damn time to girls.... what makes you think they read me?
R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on November 20, 2007, 11:30:38 AM
what? a wolf whistle means your clocked?

God I hope not. I got it once.. well, not loudly, but the same tones... when walking into a restaurant. At first I feared it was "look at the man in the dress!" (I interpret sneezing, yawning, and pretty much human gesturing in general as indications of my being read), but later figured it meant, "DAMN she's tall!"

~Kate~

Regardless of intent or meaning, the "wolf-whistle" is one of the most offensive verbal assaults a misogynistic male can direct toward a woman. And it astounds me that any woman could feel anything but extreme insult at the gesture. Once, I thought I heard a man in my support group wolf-whistle at me, I confronted him and he denied that it was directed at me and I believed him. Lucky for him because I was about to chop his balls off.

methinks you have the wrong end of the feminist stick Melissa....
i consider a wolf whistle or horn honk aproval of my attractiveness by men... that they find me pretty or attractive... i think nearly ALL women consider it a COMPLIMENT.... not that they clocked you...
true, passing  validation aside, women like to be validated as attractive females to thier potential mates...
if i asked any of my friends irl what they thought, i garuntee 99% would say it was annoying, but nice... hardly insulting, or that youve been 'clocked' if trans...
cutting his 'balls' off? id do that if he was extremely rude to me, but then, that takes a lot, and intentional nastness... complimenting me in one of the simplest male ways  is aiight by me..
R :police:

Quote from: melissa90299 on November 20, 2007, 01:00:10 PM
... the "wolf-whistle" is one of the most offensive verbal assaults a misogynistic male can direct toward a woman. And it astounds me that any woman could feel anything but extreme insult at the gesture.

So what would you consider a honk and racing the engine with a glance over at you?  (This happened to me tonight.)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

Quote from: Rachael on November 20, 2007, 02:28:54 PM
methinks you have the wrong end of the feminist stick Melissa....
i consider a wolf whistle or horn honk aproval of my attractiveness by men... that they find me pretty or attractive... i think nearly ALL women consider it a COMPLIMENT.... not that they clocked you...
true, passing  validation aside, women like to be validated as attractive females to thier potential mates...
if i asked any of my friends irl what they thought, i garuntee 99% would say it was annoying, but nice... hardly insulting, or that youve been 'clocked' if trans...
cutting his 'balls' off? id do that if he was extremely rude to me, but then, that takes a lot, and intentional nastness... complimenting me in one of the simplest male ways  is aiight by me..
R :police:

I am glad you take it as a compliment Rachael.  You have no problems passing and there is no need to justify to anyone.  Now for me on the other hand, it is a completely different ball game!  When I get whistled at, hoons toot etc. I know I am being read, it's as simple as that!  After I have FFS, I hope to see a different side of human nature. 
I don't have the courage to post my picture here yet for various reasons, I do somewhat live in stealth,  but I hope you take me as an honest person, as you stated earlier that you think people without pictures are somewhat dishonest?  I speak only of my personal experiences, and I do not take guys doing wheelies out front of my house, or yahooing at me, or beeping their horn every time they pass my place as a compliment.  As you can see by the situation I am in, I definitely have to move!!

buttercup   :)

i didnt say its dishonisty... i said those who do post them, i respect, those who dont post a headshot/person, i can understand thier feelings, those who post someone else, and try to SUGGEST or use it as them, i find dishonest. You, i can understand, as i was once in the same place....
R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on November 20, 2007, 10:01:37 PM
i didnt say its dishonisty... i said those who do post them, i respect, those who dont post a headshot/person, i can understand thier feelings, those who post someone else, and try to SUGGEST or use it as them, i find dishonest. You, i can understand, as i was once in the same place....
R :police:

I agree with that, I think it is against the law also. So any person that appears in a picture for such purpose can take legal measures (exceptions are very famous personalities).

I don't post my picture here for extensive amounts of time because this is a public board.  The private board I am on I have multiple photographs up.  Some people do not post pictures because of privacy concerns.  This is not even the name I use. 
The truth is HRT does work, and there is a difference, but its very subtle.  But there needs to be a good facial frame for it to work off of. 

To the original poster: You look Okay, you will look better with HRT and Laser, but FFS might help. 

I have shown people here my recent photographs by the way.  Its not like people do not know what I look like.  My problem is my face is in a stage where it looks slightly different month to month.  HRT does have some effect on the way you look. 

Quote from: Amy T. on November 21, 2007, 10:21:03 AM
I don't post my picture here for extensive amounts of time because this is a public board.  The private board I am on I have multiple photographs up.  Some people do not post pictures because of privacy concerns.

Exactly. Plus my wife has forbidden me to publish photos for general viewing, preferring to keep our lives private now. I'm respecting that.

And hey, I've MET a few people from Susan's. Can't get much more "honest" than that ;)

~Kate~

why does everyone constantly suggest its subtle? when numerous people have shown massive change?
R :police:

Quote from: Rachael on November 21, 2007, 10:44:53 AM
why does everyone constantly suggest its subtle? when numerous people have shown massive change?
R :police:

Maybe different people have different results: some massive, some subtle.

Quote from: Laura Elizabeth Jones on November 21, 2007, 01:41:04 PM

Quote from: Rachael on November 21, 2007, 10:44:53 AM
why does everyone constantly suggest its subtle? when numerous people have shown massive change?
R :police:

Maybe different people have different results: some massive, some subtle.

Its a matter of time frame, month to month you probably don't look that different.  Not to mention you see yourself every day, so the changes are less noticable to you.  However, given a sufficient amount of time, its fair to say the changes CAN be massive.  Otherwise it would be like saying we all look like our grade school photos.

Quote from: Laura Elizabeth Jones on November 21, 2007, 01:41:04 PM

Quote from: Rachael on November 21, 2007, 10:44:53 AM
why does everyone constantly suggest its subtle? when numerous people have shown massive change?
R :police:

Maybe different people have different results: some massive, some subtle.

I was on hormones for six months.... nothing.    However when I was trying to get my wife pregnant prior to that, we had a doctor prescribe CLOMID for me.

For women here is what it is supposed to do:	--	Clomid is often a first line treatment to induce regular ovulation. Clomid works at the level of the hypothalamus where it competes for estrogen binding sites. When these "sites are occupied" by Clomid, the hypothalamus responds by producing more GnRH which then stimulates the pituitary to produce FSH. Remember, in a normal cycle healthy follicles produce estrogclomiden, which signals the hypothalamus to reduce production of FSH. Clomiphene is marketed in the United States by Aventis Laboratories as Clomid and by Serono Laboratories as Serophene.
For Men :	--	Just as women need the right balance of hormones to ovulate regularly, men need certain hormones to produce healthy sperm. Surprisingly, the same substances control these reproductive functions in both men and women — so the same fertility drugs that stimulate ovulation stimulate sperm production.

I got definite pre-pubescent budding under my nipple ( not sure I would ever get much more - my mom is flat to put it mildly ), and my skin got softer and my butt seemed to curve out. 

Unfortunately the was a major side effect.  You see this drug tricks your body into think it is not producing either Testosterone or Estrogen.  The result is it puts your system into overdrive for both. So with the feminine effects I mentioned before , I think you will understand the was enhancement on the Masculine side too.  My beard seemed to thicken in a month ( i.e. twice the amount of hair ), hair grew in on my back (UGGG)  and well lets just I could not keep my hands of my wife.  She did get pregnant by the way.   She says sometimes she wanted to roll up a newspaper to keep me off her. LOL

For women this drug is only used short term and the added testosterone adds to libido thereby aiding potential pregnancy.

Daisy

Daisy

QuoteI am glad you take it as a compliment_________.  You have no problems passing and there is no need to justify to anyone. 

Actually no one can tell another how some other person will gender you. In reality, most of us get silently misgendered at least occasionally.

QuoteNow for me on the other hand, it is a completely different ball game!  When I get whistled at, hoons toot etc. I know I am being read, it's as simple as that!  After I have FFS, I hope to see a different side of human nature. 

Pre-FFS I got that occasionally too and most of these repugnant acts are TS harassment, nothing else. I get men hitting on me, usually with some modicum of respect, and making compliments every time I walk down the street but it is the same type of stuff that sexy cisgendered women get. I know this because I have a "before and after" history that people who haven't had FFS and a boob job don't have.

even cisgender men and women get silently misgendered sometimes....
R :police:

Updated picture!

One month of Spironolactone, weight loss. New haircut and glasses.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv396%2FCireOnivlas%2FDSC07245.jpg&hash=a56fa36ee5680ee64a9c2d81b9b287e2ae35a07c)

thats not abuse, thats just thier genes going wrong... or being fat... the hormones do one thing, thats the change, higher dosage = faster, not more.
or natal women could take estrogen instead of boob implants...
R :police:

Quote from: Cire on December 29, 2007, 02:57:52 PM
Updated picture!

One month of Spironolactone, weight loss. New haircut and glasses.

You look GREAT!

Lovin' the glasses ;)

~Kate~

Quote from: Renate on December 29, 2007, 05:09:13 PM


Lighten up everybody, we all look great!

Renate

we dont... thats whats wrong with this forum.....
ell: i know you said she was, and i said hrt medically cant do more just because you up the dosage... it will only do so much in any person, nomatter the dosage, theres speed variable, but the curve for change ends at one point... its not infinate. trust the biologyist sweetie ;)
R :police:

Quote from: Kate on December 29, 2007, 05:12:41 PM

Quote from: Cire on December 29, 2007, 02:57:52 PM
Updated picture!

One month of Spironolactone, weight loss. New haircut and glasses.

You look GREAT!

Lovin' the glasses ;)

~Kate~

ditto, I can see some improvement- you'll get there!

Subtle? Not? Figuring it out as i go....

Hope it ends up as "not subtle!"

Update:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv396%2FCireOnivlas%2FDSC07416.jpg&hash=2ca21c87458caff067022220a3d382ff72007ef9)

Subtle changes? Big ones? Here's a timeline...

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv396%2FCireOnivlas%2FFace-NovembertoMarch.jpg&hash=cb392cbfcab1205ba477196b604e4bd1d3cd8a1a)

Quote from: Rachael on November 06, 2007, 08:47:56 PM
Kate: hormone therapy has a more significant effect on younger patients... according to the new british SOC. the following are listed:
greater likelihood of tanner V breast growth.
if under 24, increased likelihood of minor bone structure change.
Facial hair and vocal change reversal (ive had this)

earlier cessation of androgens is likely to reduce the 'damage' to the body
higher levels of human growth hormone present in the under 24s also is a factor.

I am not saying hrt is non functional in older transitioners, it isnt...
nor am i saying that all 20 somethings are 100% passable babes, while the 40+ lot are men in dresses, this isnt the case.
But as someone who was pre hrt, completely unpassable, to someone who is fairly happy with her appearance now. i have yet to see the level of change in an older transitioner, compared with a young transitioner.
R :police:

if this is really possible and true than you really made my day...  ;D
i am 20 and will be starting hormones in near future... finally  :angel:
i have noticed that all "official" researches indicate that only fat redistribution, some berast tissue growth, and somewhat body hair reduction is induced by hormones
Yet on the other hand there are (usually those "less than a decade past puberty") girls claimind wonderful changes not credited elswhere:
softening of the voice, shrinking in height by few inches, shrinking of feet by size or two, very noticable facial hair reduction....
an i think it was about time that these cahnges are officialy recognised because it can't be that so many people is making these stuff up
not that i am saying anything radical can happen with bones; but i believe that it is likely to lose inch or two in height or wear a bit smaller shoes....

what do u think about this? has it happened to any of you?

its more cartilage change... bone really doesnt get smaller...
i have noticed a broadening of the hip bones, then again, hrt effects are more akin to the time taken for normal puberty the closer to it you are. so i cant tell you yet lol... its only been a year and 3 months for me, but ive got a second breast growth spurt going on... full B, small C...


Cire: lookin good bird! wow, what a change. :D
R >:D

Quote from: Mari on April 05, 2008, 05:15:33 PM
if this is really possible and true than you really made my day...  ;D
i am 20 and will be starting hormones in near future... finally  :angel:
i have noticed that all "official" researches indicate that only fat redistribution, some berast tissue growth, and somewhat body hair reduction is induced by hormones
Yet on the other hand there are (usually those "less than a decade past puberty") girls claimind wonderful changes not credited elswhere:
softening of the voice, shrinking in height by few inches, shrinking of feet by size or two, very noticable facial hair reduction....
an i think it was about time that these cahnges are officialy recognised because it can't be that so many people is making these stuff up
not that i am saying anything radical can happen with bones; but i believe that it is likely to lose inch or two in height or wear a bit smaller shoes....

what do u think about this? has it happened to any of you?

Well, for instance my shoes have been feeling big. I went to the shop today and I can now put my foot in a shoe a full 1.5 sizes smaller.  I think I've lost about 1 CM in height (just under 1/2 inch). It's been getting easer and easier to use my new voice. I have no beard line after only 3 sessions of laser.

However! I need to let you know that I'm not quite geneticly male, as my first hormone panel put me at a testosterone level of 16 ng/dl. Normal range is 800-1300. Donno why I don't make testosterone, but I'm happy I don't!