Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Would some trans-women who want to transition or take hormones admit that it's not as much about personality (even though that may still play a part in it) as about being looked at as pretty or feminine?

I can't see myself actually seeing a gender specialist or taking hormones in the nearer future, because I want to focus on other things right now, and find other little ways I can be pretty or more feminine. And if I do happen to decide I want hormones one day, in that case I wish I didn't leave such a big social media or internet footprint. If that is me, then I wish I could've had an idea like that since I was very little.

Anyway, I first got the idea that I wanted to be more physically feminine and pretty, but later on, personality became a secondary consideration as well. I might be androgynous, leaning towards female.

I just want somebody I can more relate to.

I certainly like the idea of being feminine, I in no way want to have SRS but HRT is certainly an option for me to better deal with my dysphoria. i have been shaving my body, taking better care of my skin and dressing at home to feel more feminine, it will only get you so far IMO. i still dont feel that i am to that point where I am done transitioning. it is certainly worthwhile to go to therapy though. I have had only 3 visits so far and i am having a very positive experience with it. She is helping me find ways to deal with my anger issues ive had since puberty.

ADMIT? Like it's a dirty little secret?

It's true that I sat with being trans for 20 years of not undertaking hrt or GCS. In that time I've transitioned socially and deciding to start hrt - which I knew would be a prelude to vaginoplasty was an acknowledgement that I was ready to let go of any expectations of being objectively pretty.

Physical beauty is only skin deep and accepting that has been the key to moving forward.

Recognize that very few women natal or trans feel secure in their appearance. That insecurity is very much an effect of the sexist double standards that are so much a part of our society.

So no, for me it's not about being seen as pretty because that's not very likely in the cards and in fact I'm trading being an attractive male for becoming a female who won't pass or if you prefer, an apparently male person with breasts and a vagina doing what I can to appear as femme as possible.

So feeling comfortable in my own skin is the driver and the only thing that surgery is going to change outwardly will be removing a bulge that doesn't go very well with most feminine fashions. All the rest is the hormones and 20 years of working to be the most complete human I can. That human happens to be relatively feminine in brain and social interaction or as you would put it "personality"; I would rather call it "identity".

There are trans women who pass visually and yet are fairly easy to clock because they remain socialised as males. I have already found that most of the women I know have accepted me as one of their number. It feels like coming home.

Hah!  My youngest daughter (age 25) asked me about this.

Pretty?  Dear, I'm almost 63, crepey skin, constant bee stung face from endless electrolysis, thick-waisted, big-shouldered, etc.  My dream of beauty is to not be called "Sir", or "Hey, bud" at the grocery store.  Maybe if I go shopping in the dark...

Pretty? I know better.  Not Happening.

I have found that explaing my motivation regarding transitioning is impossible when speaking to the cis gendered. They think its either to be beautiful, wear womens clothes or sleep with men. When I tell them its none of that, they stare blankly at me. Although being pretty would be nice, I'd be delusional if that was why I was transitioning. Even if it were possible or probable.

I think everybody wants to be attractive but for me a 6-12 hour surgical procedure, a month or more of recovery and about $50,000 in cost may be a bit more than it's worth. In my case with a surgical procedure that long there may be a very real risk of death so for now, I live with what I am.

Heck, yes, I want to be pretty.  But, like Michelle, I've left it a bit late, so that is not as realistic an option as it might have been a few decades ago.  I'll have to settle for dressing well.  But, yes, that is front and centre in my motivation for transitioning. 

Still, as I explore who I really am, I am aware of body dysphoria and social dysphoria.  They were buried more deeply than being pretty and feminine, but they are there.  So I am going to the whole package.

I wouldn't say the idea of pretty necessarily became a part of my thinking until I started the transition. I really just despised being treated like a guy.

Quote from: Emileeeee on November 18, 2016, 07:28:37 AM
I really just despised being treated like a guy.

I agree (except for the tense -- despised vs. despise -- I'm not full time.)

Doesn't everyone want to be seen as attractive?

I was always considered an attractive guy, but those facial features don't translate into an attractive woman. What I don't want it to look like a guy in a dress.

So unfortunately for me, I'm not going full time until I get some FFS. I don't need a lot, but I feel I need some to look the way I want.

I'd like to look however I would have ended up if I'd not had testosterone running through my veins for decades.  Whether that's butt ugly, absolutely stunning or somewhere in between, I don't really care too much, I just want to look like me.

Every woman wants to be looked at as "pretty". I'd like to end up just being seen as feminine. Just to be seen as I am inside is enough.

Yes, I want to be pretty, feel pretty and wear pretty clothes. Maybe a big part is trying to catch up on missing out for 44 years...

How far would I go for it? Not sure. So far any "cosmetic" surgery has not been in the plans - but who knows.

I want to look conventionally beautiful. The stereotypical American media driven idea of beauty. But I am not but it is not the end of the world. If I did not get to transition when that would be the end of the world. Pre transition I was widely considered a handsome "man" and now I am mostly considered an ugly woman. For the most part my looks fit the gender stereotype of femininity.  That is good enough for me. I do not think I will ever have plastic surgery again. I get a few hairs on above my upper lip chin and jaw line which I shave. That causes itchy pimples. My boobs are small compare with the rest of me. That makes me feel unpretty but for me the surgeries and paying for those surgeries is not worth it. I am not going to get liposuction either. I feel like I needed to pass I was not trying to look like a supermodel.

I can't say that I'm that interested in looking pretty or looking young. I try to be
realistic about things. A woman at work (who doesn't know I'm trans) said to me
that I looked "just lovely" which did make me happy. There seems to be confusion
about this. When I talk about making plans for some facial surgery, people think
that I am trying to make myself beautiful and what I'm really want is just to look
more like a woman. I don't want to be seen as a guy .. to be called sir!

 When I was kid in school I used to ask myself why was I born a boy. I wanted to be like the other girls and I didn't care if I would be the ugliest girl in school.
  I was full time six months before I started hormones being seen as pretty never factored in, being treated as woman is what matters. That I passed most of the time back then I owe  to my demeanor.

Quote from: redhot1 on November 17, 2016, 10:12:21 PM
Would some trans-women who want to transition or take hormones admit that it's not as much about personality (even though that may still play a part in it) as about being looked at as pretty or feminine?
I just want somebody I can more relate to.

Since the age of seven I have wanted to be as pretty as my sister. Think Ellie May from Beverly Hillbillies. It almost has been an obsession. I found out after 64 years that I am transgender about 8 months ago. I alway knew I was different. Deciding on HRT is the best thing I have ever done for myself thus far. I am much more comfortable in my own skin like something was being withheld all these years and now it has returned. I used to wake up grouchy and ill tempered. Now I am much more cognizant of my mood swings and make adjustments. So personality wise HRT has improved that immensely. The pretty part I guess is in the eye of the beholder because when I look in the mirror I see a supermodel. well sort of. 

For me there is definitely a difference between attractive, pretty, and handsome.

In my case being "pretty" is part of the "passing" variable equation. Being pretty can certainly assist in successful social interactions as a woman. Society has mental models of the generic gender category. If you can tap into that so people don't think twice or question what they see it can contribute to them ignoring information that doesn't fit that mental model.

So if I present as "pretty" and thus fit the female mental model it's much easier to interact even if I have shortcomings such as voice, a bit of stubble (for electrolysis) non typical body language etc.

The invisible gorilla test works along the same lines
http://theinvisiblegorilla.com/gorilla_experiment.html (http://theinvisiblegorilla.com/gorilla_experiment.html)

Desirable. Attractive. Not having rocks thrown at me. Those things sure. To me "Pretty" is winning the gene-pool lottery. I'm not allowed to even buy a ticket

Come on be honest. Don't you just want to be pretty enough that some guy is intrigued enough to pull over and help you fix your flat tire?

Quote from: DawnOday on November 19, 2016, 12:37:56 PM
Come on be honest. Don't you just want to be pretty enough that some guy is intrigued enough to pull over and help you fix your flat tire?

Isn't that what AAA is for? :-p

Seriously though, besides social interaction benefits, I would like to be pretty more for me than anyone else. Same reason I have a beauty routine- it's a form of creative expression and self care

For me also, Prettiness is pretty subjective and my main goal in life has always been to be treated as feminine. Even when i identified as a feminine guy. When i came out as trans that really did not change very much. I have my prettiness and parts of my looks i am thankful for, other parts i am critical of, but i understand it is all temporary as we are.

I'm thrilled to be a woman every single day. Whatever bad things in life, i often look to that for comfort.

I came into learning about me, Anne, at the age of 67. So what is pretty? For me there are three different perspectives. The prettiness or beauty of a 20 something starlet will never happen and happily it is not my desire. My two other description of pretty are: first, I have a need to not alienate those around me for I seek acceptance, passing would be fun but acceptance and being comfortable in the world is my goal. My last pretty is to be able to accept and like the face that looks back at me in the mirror each day. I happen to be lucky enough to meet these last two definitions of pretty.

Anne

Quote from: Anne Blake on November 19, 2016, 02:13:09 PM
My last pretty is to be able to accept and like the face that looks back at me in the mirror each day.

I still have troubles with that one. Makeup definitely helps, but without it I still think I look masculine.

When I first started to accept being a trans woman, I had this notion in my head that I should avoid being stereotypical, as in "trans women tend to be overly feminine, even more so that most cis women. And as such, I thought that in my case all this was mostly just a matter of bodily change. Now I realise that I was completely wrong with that. I really like dressing super femininely and doing my best to appear beautiful, all because it just feels...good and natural. Like I'm supposed to be doing that. This, along with feeling seriously terrible about my genitals even existing on a daily basis is why I think I'm a trans woman.

Quote from: FreyasRedemption on November 19, 2016, 02:50:01 PM
When I first started to accept being a trans woman, I had this notion in my head that I should avoid being stereotypical, as in "trans women tend to be overly feminine, even more so that most cis women. And as such, I thought that in my case all this was mostly just a matter of bodily change. Now I realise that I was completely wrong with that. I really like dressing super femininely and doing my best to appear beautiful, all because it just feels...good and natural. Like I'm supposed to be doing that. This, along with feeling seriously terrible about my genitals even existing on a daily basis is why I think I'm a trans woman.

I had some of those same notions when i began to transition. I still consider my style to be more tomboy or tomgirl in compared to other women, i have though, been presenting steadily at least a bit more feminine as changes have occurred. My wife confirms that she sees this. I'm still a jeans and booties type of person, but my hair is now long and i am wearing more makeup than in the past. I'm sort of making myself wear a dress or skirt at least once per week to work and i am liking it more. Is this to feel prettier? I'm not sure really good question.

Really interesting discussion and answers.

Quote from: DawnOday on November 19, 2016, 12:37:56 PM
Come on be honest. Don't you just want to be pretty enough that some guy is intrigued enough to pull over and help you fix your flat tire?

I have aluminum wheels with disk brakes. I would be nervous about somebody else getting them to tight or to loose. The result of changing them to many years myself.

Quote from: Dena on November 19, 2016, 07:27:54 PM
I have aluminum wheels with disk brakes. I would be nervous about somebody else getting them to tight or to loose. The result of changing them to many years myself.

See, folks?  Not a prettier sight in the world than a woman with a torque wrench.   ;)

Yea I wanna be looked at as pretty and feminine... is it a crime?


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Quote from: jujubes1986 on November 19, 2016, 07:55:10 PM
Yea I wanna be looked at as pretty and feminine... is it a crime?


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Only if you rob an Ulta, Mac, or Sephora in order to get to the end result ;-)

Quote from: Brooke on November 19, 2016, 08:40:07 PM
Only if you rob an Ulta, Mac, or Sephora in order to get to the end result ;-)

Lol girl!


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Quote from: jujubes1986 on November 19, 2016, 07:55:10 PM
Yea I wanna be looked at as pretty and feminine... is it a crime?

I absolutely am aiming for as pretty as I can manage, the OP posed her question in terms of that being the primary reason for transitioning.

I know trans women running the gamut from decidedly pretty to drop dead gorgeous and none of them transitioned for that reason first.

Not judging, if that's someone's motivation I'm good with it. Sure I'd give both  testicles to be objectively pretty. And my choice to not pass is all about looks and vanity. I think my prettiest look will be as the most femme affect I can pull off without actually passing.

That is, I have no intention of wearing a wig because it's not workable in my chosen profession and I don't wish to affect different looks for working vs not working as I spend my time among the same people and dont care to radically change my appearance day-to-day.

If course I'll feel prettier when I no longer have a [sheenis] affecting the line of feminine attire but I expect I'll be the only one taking note there.

going from ugly, to sort of pretty to society pretty has been an interesting rollercoaster

when I started transition it was survival mode, i just wanted to live ya know so "being pretty" for me was more of a goal that came from needing to pass vs like just wanting to be pretty to increase my attraction.

I will also add that before transitioning I didn't feel that I had the freedom to express my feminine side through beauty- at least not in public.

I suppose that being handsome did not feel authentic. So transitioning has given me agency to present as pretty.


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Actually, the question is kind of redundant. What woman doesn't want to be pretty?  What man doesn't want to be handsome? Who doesn't want to be smart? Who doesn't want to be healthy? As humans, we all want everything we can get that's perceived as good. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a woman, trans or otherwise, who doesn't want to be "pretty".

 :police: Locked for Review  :police:

Liz

This thread is now open and I would like to remind members of the following policy regarding the topic of  ->-bleeped-<-

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,205614.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,205614.0.html)

Liz

Quote from: ElizabethK on November 22, 2016, 04:23:06 AM
This thread is now open and I would like to remind members of the following policy regarding the topic of  ->-bleeped-<-

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,205614.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,205614.0.html)

Liz

Your link isn't working for me

Try this one

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,205614.0.html

No go, perhaps you're viewing things only visible to mods?

I'm quoting Robbie Williams here,
   
  "All we've ever wanted
Is to look good naked
Hope that someone can take it
God save me rejection
From my reflection,
I want perfection"
        :-)

Hi Sadie Blake

The link I am posting goes to this post by Mariah.

Quote from: Mariah on March 06, 2016, 09:55:16 AM
This is one thing that I know that when I came on to the site that I didn't know. It's a long standing policy that pre dates my time on the forums too. I never knew what it was either though. To aid future moderators the policy is being posted here.

->-bleeped-<- aka  ->-bleeped-<- is strictly forbidden on site. There is however a wiki article on the subject on the site. It's located in the following location.

https://www.susans.org/wiki/ ->-bleeped-<-

Generic definition from the article I'm posting here so you know what it is in case you see it in the forums.

Liz

I think everyone woman wants to be pretty regardless of being trans or not, but all that matters to me is that I'm pretty to my fiancé whose opinion is the only one that matters to me. Hugs
Mariah

I want to look like a prettyful young princes.
~dances zhe ballet~

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Quote from: sarah1972 on November 19, 2016, 08:30:24 AM
Yes, I want to be pretty, feel pretty and wear pretty clothes. Maybe a big part is trying to catch up on missing out for 44 years...

How far would I go for it? Not sure. So far any "cosmetic" surgery has not been in the plans - but who knows.

I'm with you Sarah  ;)

No. I don't want to be pretty. Pretty sounds like cute, tiny. Child like. I don't like that. I like to be a strong woman, not a girl with a child body. I also don't want to be hot. Sleazy greasy, no thank you.

I want to be beautiful  ;D

...and being beautiful for me, is being myself. Unique. The woman I should have been when I was born with the female genetics.

I have done FFS, but it doesn't make me pretty. It makes me who I am, myself. Beautiful.

I do. As a guy I really couldn't care less about my appearance but when I'm feeling girly and dress the part I buy name brand clothes and make sure my hair and face are presentable, for what it's worth. I honestly think that if I can't become a beautiful woman then I shouldn't bother with transitioning. That said, I think I'd be an OK looking chick lol

I just want to be passable not pretty, as an older woman I hope I have a chance if the HRT works

Having an instinct to be pretty when you're socially considered male is a bitch. Is it about being pretty, wearing dresses, I'd say no, there's more to it, but it wouldn't be the same without that either.
Why do I feel so comfortable with my breasts (fatty gynecomastia), I'd be devastated to lose them, which makes no sense from a standpoint of being pretty, you don't need that to be pretty, is it about clothes? No, I'd be very happy to have men's clothes hang off those same breasts and drape over my waist as well, think of all the ways you can wear men's clothes that a man can't. Is it about sex with men? Well, men do that all the time, you don't have to be female to do that.

In one sense it's about getting your body to match your brain, but in another sense it's about getting society's expectations of you to match up with your inner self as well, the need to transition would exist even if it was entirely acceptable for men to be feminine, but it would probably be half as strong, or less.

Quote from: redhot1 on November 17, 2016, 10:12:21 PM
Would some trans-women who want to transition or take hormones admit that it's not as much about personality (even though that may still play a part in it) as about being looked at as pretty or feminine?

I can't see myself actually seeing a gender specialist or taking hormones in the nearer future, because I want to focus on other things right now, and find other little ways I can be pretty or more feminine. And if I do happen to decide I want hormones one day, in that case I wish I didn't leave such a big social media or internet footprint. If that is me, then I wish I could've had an idea like that since I was very little.

Anyway, I first got the idea that I wanted to be more physically feminine and pretty, but later on, personality became a secondary consideration as well. I might be androgynous, leaning towards female.

I just want somebody I can more relate to.

I can kind of relate with some of this. I'm still unsure about a desire to transition completely to female, but I am willing to see a therapist about my issues. However, it is also the desire to be more feminine than masculine. My personality has already been identified as 'weird' (not male) by the people I'm around and even my mannerisms are strange for a male. I already 'feel' I'm more androgynous than purely male or female. I'd like my appearance to reflect that more and I'm not at all opposed to taking hormones. I think the main thing holding me back is my work environment and the place where I live because of this I wish I have decided to do something about it sooner.

There's nothing wrong with wanted to feel pretty but don't forget it's bout you and, I hope when I go through mine I can pass