Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hey ladies,

So I've had a big day today. And based on some other posts I've made today and the responses I've gotten this question came to mind as I was leaving the dog park. If my outward persona presents as male, but I've gone through the legal steps to reassign myself as female do I still use the men's room? Do I have to wait until I'm passable before I use the ladies room?

What have your experiences been?

Love you ladies 💋❤️💋

Alora

You use it the moment you feel you should use it with safety.  Dont put yourself at risk of agression if you are not close to be passable

If your not passable , why cause friction. I'm pretty "passabl"e when I'm all good to go , but in the Starbucks I go to in a college town with coeds all over the place I usually head for the single stall male restroom just not to cause problems.

Hi Alora,

If you present as male, there is no way you should be using the ladies room. Not only is some redneck not going to check your ID before beating the crap out of you, it really adds fuel to the fire when all the conservatives rant about "men in the women's restroom attacking our young daughters!". It's just not a good idea. Wait until you pass.

Just my opinion,

Terri

I would go with restroom based on how your presenting provided you feel comfortable doing so. Hugs
Mariah

How big and protective is your dog?  Only kidding a bit as I agree that your safety is paramount.  And then there are people like me who may pass some of the time with some of the people.  I will never willingly use a mens room again and accept that other non binary or gender non conforming people are likely to get hassled too.  I have a friend who is cis and she gets hassled likely because she is tall with short hair.

Time for our culture to grow up and get used to diversity and inclusion.  If that means some discomfort for an out trans person like myself, I will deal with it. 

It's your call after all....

I never waited. I always used the one of my identified gender unless mine was too gross, or the line was too long (hey i'm practical). To do anything else is giving into the the society norms that do not want you to be part of reality. You are real and you need to pee in the place you choose.

(Except perhaps in NC currently, where u do have some sort of legal issue - but its stupid and how is it enforced?)

I am not terribly passable yet, but when I present as female, I am fairly femme, so there is no doubt as to which look I am going for, passable or not.  So I go to the washroom that matches my presentation.  If I am in male drag, I use the men's.  If I am dressed as myself, I use the ladies'.  I am not going into a men's washroom in a skirt, and I am not going into a ladies' washroom dressed as a man.

well, if I'm in a dress and there is no single occupancy around I'm sure not going to the men's

Quote from: stephaniec on November 21, 2016, 05:47:26 PM
If your not passable , why cause friction. I'm pretty "passabl"e when I'm all good to go , but in the Starbucks I go to in a college town with coeds all over the place I usually head for the single stall male restroom just not to cause problems.

All the Starbucks near me have changed their restrooms to gender non-specific.  Since all the ones I've ever seen in a Starbucks were single user I wondered why they hadn't made that change.  Just one more reason I  spend too much money there.

yea , such a simple solution. The Cosi restaurant next door changed to neutral gender last year.

Quote from: Tessa James on November 21, 2016, 06:49:33 PM
How big and protective is your dog?  Only kidding a bit as I agree that your safety is paramount.  And then there are people like me who may pass some of the time with some of the people.  I will never willingly use a mens room again and accept that other non binary or gender non conforming people are likely to get hassled too.  I have a friend who is cis and she gets hassled likely because she is tall with short hair.

Time for our culture to grow up and get used to diversity and inclusion.  If that means some discomfort for an out trans person like myself, I will deal with it. 

It's your call after all....

She's medium sized and the biggest lover on the planet. She has been known to get jealous when I give hugs and get super vocal.

I male personality that I have developed is a shaker of the norm. I kinda of want to shake things up once I make all the necessary legal changes, but a lot of you ladis made a very valid point. Be safe. In the current political unrest,I may just fly under the radar until I get to know the female me a little better and what she is capable of handling.

Love you ladies thanks 💋❤️💋

I have to back the restroom that you are presenting as for a couple of reasons. Why stir up the pot for little gain. There is already a fear of us terrifying gender deviants seeking to abuse the wives and daughters......you know the drill. But the safety one is just to big to ignore. I cried heavily at last night's transgender day of remembrance and I really don't want to mourn for the brutal death of one of us that can be so easily avoided. Please save me having to shed tears for you next year. - Anne

Quote from: Anne Blake on November 21, 2016, 10:37:21 PM
I have to back the restroom that you are presenting as for a couple of reasons. Why stir up the pot for little gain. There is already a fear of us terrifying gender deviants seeking to abuse the wives and daughters......you know the drill. But the safety one is just to big to ignore. I cried heavily at last night's transgender day of remembrance and I really don't want to mourn for the brutal death of one of us that can be so easily avoided. Please save me having to shed tears for you next year. - Anne

Don't make me cry 😭😭

I'm not going to do anything that is going to put me risk I promise.

Loves 💋❤️💋

Quote from: Alora on November 21, 2016, 05:28:53 PM
Hey ladies,

So I've had a big day today. And based on some other posts I've made today and the responses I've gotten this question came to mind as I was leaving the dog park. If my outward persona presents as male, but I've gone through the legal steps to reassign myself as female do I still use the men's room? Do I have to wait until I'm passable before I use the ladies room?

What have your experiences been?

Love you ladies 💋❤️💋

Alora

If you are presenting as male use the men's room, use the women's when presenting female.

I consider myself extremely feminine but I'm only 6 months on HRT so I don't expect to be able to pass for awhile now but I plan to use the mens room until I feel confident enough in looks/mental fortitude to use the ladies room. Amusing thing is my birth certificate, state id, SSA card and every other legal agency all list my new name and gender as Female so I feel like a law breaker still using the mens room Haha

No one ever said you have to pass 100% but you have to be presenting as the gender of the restroom you wish to use. I am sure I didn't pass 100% when I started using the ladies room.  But when I dressed male, I used the male restroom. When I started dressing feminine I used the ladies room exclusively. I have never had a problem, even from dads who were standing guard right at the door.

Another important thing to consider - Let's not make laws or barriers where none exist. In almost no place is the restroom placard a legal boundary.

I can put a placard on my business that says people have to recite the pledge of allegiance while jogging in place if i want, and nothing requires anyone to obey it. The one in the bathroom that requires employees to wash their hands before returning to work is often a legal requirement. Big difference.

I agree use the facilities how you feel led, or how you are most comfortable, but do not let anyone restrict your rights. They will always try, but don't let them.

Another possibility is to just avoid gendered public restrooms, like I do. There are some gender-neutral toilets (for instance, in trains which I use very often, and at friends homes, at some trans*-friendly places, etc.). Society just doesn't want me (who doesn't seem to be part of "them") to use "their" public toilets, so I either have to shut up and manage my toilet usage, or to degrade myself and/or risk mental and physical violence. At the moment, I go with the first solution most times. (And thanks to all people who push ahead two-gender-separated toilets.)

I still maintain that the best solution is for all public restrooms to be multi-user unisex with private stalls and a common sink area. Equal for everybody.

Quote from: mac1 on November 22, 2016, 09:49:34 PM
I still maintain that the best solution is for all public restrooms to be multi-user unisex with private stalls and a common sink area. Equal for everybody.

We disagree mac1, while I support having private stalls in restrooms, I would be uncomfortable with having unisex restrooms.  Sorry but women do have to worry about sexual assault, rape, and sexual harrassment.

I know full well it would not be a transgender person doing so, but it's way too easy for a man to overpower a woman and push her back into a stall as she's trying to exit. Combine that with a weapon and threat, or their simply knocking her unconscious, and unless someone saw the assault happen, the rapist would likely get away with it at least initially...

Even if not raped or assaulted, sexual harassment of women happens way too often, and it's often either not reported or often even against the law (http://www.stopstreetharassment.org/strategies/sshlaw/) unless it happens in a work place like in Tennessee.

Unisex restrooms makes accessibility to the victim way too easy.

At least with gender segregated restrooms someone seeing a obviously male individual entering or leaving a ladies room would likely raise an alarm. Yes that may result in transgender person being embarrassed or having to explain that they are transgender becoming an opportunity for education; but it could also potentially prevent a rape, or help someone who is actively being sexually assaulted.

The best solution is to use the restroom that matches your gender presentation. If you are dressed and presenting as a man use the men's room, dressed and presenting as a woman use the ladies room; gender neutral use your best judgement.

Hi, Susan

It may be that Mac1 has visited or lived in Scandinavia. I myself was a bit surprised when I used the restrooms in one of Stockholm's largest department stores four or five years ago. It was completely non-segregated—the interior consisted of private stalls, with a spacious communal wash-counter. A nominal entrance fee (not a tip) was required to enter. This was also the case with the public non-segregated bathrooms at a park I visited in Helsinki. Someone told me the fees are used to cover cleaning and maintenance. Both locations were certainly very clean and well maintained.

For what it's worth, both men and women using the facilities I saw appeared untroubled by the arrangement. Perhaps life is more dangerous in the U.S.A than Europe—but of course this was some years ago. I've heard that recently some immigrants to Sweden have attacked local women on the streets, so things may have changed.

Quote from: Susan on November 22, 2016, 11:40:57 PM
We disagree mac1, while I support having private stalls in restrooms, I would be uncomfortable with having unisex restrooms.

I'm very uncomfortable with dually gendered restrooms. I'm unsure where to go, and "best judgement" is not very useful for me. It means that I can't feel secure (and get looks etc.) at either location. -Portion of post removed under TOS 10. IE: Posting any messages that engages in personal attacks and/or is actively or passively aggressive no matter the provocation. -

Quote
Sorry but women do have to worry about sexual assault, rape, and sexual harrassment.

Most assault and rape cases do not happen in public restrooms. Of course, some do, like recently when a woman was raped in a big city nearby recently (I could provide sources). And guess where it happened? Yes, a "women's" restroom on a highly frequented train station with video surveillance and police presence. I wonder why some people think that violent aggressors who are willing to rape someone will stop when they see a sign with a dress.

Quote from: Susan on November 22, 2016, 11:40:57 PM


We disagree mac1, while I support having private stalls in restrooms, I would be uncomfortable with having unisex restrooms.  Sorry but women do have to worry about sexual assault, rape, and sexual harrassment.

I know full well it would not be a transgender person doing so, but it's way too easy for a man to overpower a woman and push her back into a stall as she's trying to exit. Combine that with a weapon and threat, or their simply knocking her unconscious, and unless someone saw the assault happen, the rapist would likely get away with it at least initially...

Even if not raped or assaulted, sexual harassment of women happens way too often, and it's often either not reported or often even against the law (http://www.stopstreetharassment.org/strategies/sshlaw/) unless it happens in a work place like in Tennessee.

Unisex restrooms makes accessibility to the victim way too easy.

At least with gender segregated restrooms someone seeing a obviously male individual entering or leaving a ladies room would likely raise an alarm. Yes that may result in transgender person being embarrassed or having to explain that they are transgender becoming an opportunity for education; but it could also potentially prevent a rape, or help someone who is actively being sexually assaulted.

The best solution is to use the restroom that matches your gender presentation. If you are dressed and presenting as a man use the men's room, dressed and presenting as a woman use the ladies room; gender neutral use your best judgement.

For me, that means the one with the shortest line!  :laugh:

Hugs, Devlyn

My comment on legal reasons was essentially tongue and cheek and I realize passsing or not passing 100% isn't what matters restroom wise, though for me personally its a matter of mental fortitude and confidence. Having severe social anxiety most of my life it makes it hard for me to interact with anyone in public and at my current state I don't think I could even enter the ladies room without a clear look of nervousness/rouse suspicion to other people in it. That's wear  passing personally for me takes it's place, If i can feel confident enough in my looks as feminine then that will directly help effect my ability to feel/act natural in such a situation where as where I am now not so much haha

Quote from: j-unique on November 23, 2016, 11:06:23 AM

Quote
Sorry but women do have to worry about sexual assault, rape, and sexual harrassment.

Most assault and rape cases do not happen in public restrooms. Of course, some do, like recently when a woman was raped in a big city nearby recently (I could provide sources). And guess where it happened? Yes, a "women's" restroom on a highly frequented train station with video surveillance and police presence. I wonder why some people think that violent aggressors who are willing to rape someone will stop when they see a sign with a dress.

No one suggested that it's an iron clad protection however I specifically addressed this in my post.

QuoteAt least with gender segregated restrooms someone seeing a obviously male individual entering or leaving a ladies room would likely raise an alarm. Yes that may result in transgender person being embarrassed or having to explain that they are transgender becoming an opportunity for education; but it could also potentially prevent a rape, or help someone who is actively being sexually assaulted.

I am sorry you are uncomfortable with restrooms as they are currently situated. Many places have a single occupancy restroom usually for handicapped, mothers with children, or people in a situation like yours where you are just uncomfortable using public restrooms. With that being said, I maintain my stated objections to unisex restrooms.

The example rape you included in your post makes my point perfectly especially when combined with my point about the accessibility to the victim provided by unisex restrooms making it way to easy.

Quote from: zirconia on November 23, 2016, 03:02:27 AM
Hi, Susan

It may be that Mac1 has visited or lived in Scandinavia. I myself was a bit surprised when I used the restrooms in one of Stockholm's largest department stores four or five years ago. It was completely non-segregated—the interior consisted of private stalls, with a spacious communal wash-counter. A nominal entrance fee (not a tip) was required to enter. This was also the case with the public non-segregated bathrooms at a park I visited in Helsinki. Someone told me the fees are used to cover cleaning and maintenance. Both locations were certainly very clean and well maintained.

For what it's worth, both men and women using the facilities I saw appeared untroubled by the arrangement. Perhaps life is more dangerous in the U.S.A than Europe—but of course this was some years ago. I've heard that recently some immigrants to Sweden have attacked local women on the streets, so things may have changed.

That may be however Europe is a different environment, almost a different world totally than the United States.

Sweden was quoted as having 5,960 reported rapes in 2010

The United States was at 84,767 which is a lower number of reported rapes per 100,000 than Sweden based on the population difference, but most rapes are not reported. I know I didn't report mine.

Maybe that is the difference in opinions on the matter; the experience of someone who hasn't been raped or sexually assaulted, vs that of someone who has

Multi-user unisex should provide a greater degree of safety than gender segregated.

(1) There will usually be more people in there at any time. Thus, you will be less likely to be alone with a pervert.  Gendered facilities are not a guarantee of not encountering a pervert.

(2) If the woman has a male friend or spouse he will be able to go in with her.

(3) Young girls can be accompanied by their father. Note: it has always been possible for mothers to take young boys in with them.

These are only a few relative safety issues that I can think of at this time.  In addition you have facility space concerns, possibility of greater stall capacity, equal wait times, etc.

We shall agree to disagree.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/01/18/these-are-the-forgotten-sexual-assault-victims-in-europe/

http://www.metnews.com/articles/2016/jani071516.htm

http://www.dallasvoice.com/update-rape-victim-speaks-10212099.html

http://www.mtv.com/news/1481060/woman-allegedly-raped-in-bathroom-of-jay-zs-4040-club/

It's sad when the original poster feels the need to send me a message apologizing for what the thread became.  Locked