Susan's Place Transgender Resources

A large percentage of my family is dead. Not 'dead to me' dead, but actually dead.
The rest of them (with the exception of my mom) are 1200 miles away from me and wouldn't recognize me if I walked past them on the street.
That being said, I spend all the holidays with my fiancée's dad's side of the family. My mom comes with us when her work schedule allows or we go hang out with her once she gets off.
My mom couldn't get off work today early enough so we dragged ourselves over to her aunt's house. Everyone knows about my transition and is cool with it. It's just not something I chat about or even want brought up anymore as I'm a little over a year into the process.
Her aunt is tone deaf as **** and 'unconsciously' treats everyone like they're beneath her by disguising her actions/words with 'good intentions'.
Anyway, last Christmas, I was feeling really great about myself. Top surgery was still a new thing (I was puffing my chest out like crazy) and I had two months of T under my belt. A couple of her family members that we never, ever see came in and didn't recognize me. I was on cloud nine.
This was when her aunt chose to come in and VERY loudly yell, "This is *full deadname that no one ever used anyway*!!"
After that, there was a lot of confusion and I was randomly misgendered throughout the night. I was insanely pissed at her but kept my cool. Other people said something to her, though, about how it was incredibly rude and inconsiderate. Guess what that translated into? A month later when we came to her place for New Year's Eve, -someone else- brought it up again; she screamed '**** YOU' to me at the top of her lungs, ran full force into her bathroom, locked herself in and refused to come out for half an hour. When she finally did come out and I tried to calmly talk to her about it, she literally sat in the living room with her face covered by a blanket and refused to acknowledge my existence. Happy new year. She's 60, by the way.

Today was equally as uncomfortable. Again, I'm done talking about my transition and holding hands at this point. Everyone knows, it's a non-issue and I'd really like as little attention for it as possible.
So what does she do? She stands up at the table, walks over to me, does the weird little hair tussle thing one does with a child and then proceeds to say, "Well, everyone... I'm proud to introduce *new name* now! That's what he got to pick!".
The room went completely silent (aside from me hearing my fiancée say 'oh jesus ****'') and all I could do was sit and stare at the table in disbelief. I just said a terse "yep, thanks" and grinded my teeth.
She ruffled my hair again and said, "Awww, are you embarrassed?"
Two cheers for being completely mortified and patronized in front of a large group of people.
The worst part is that she's completely irrational and unwilling to accept any ounce of responsibility for her actions. Even if she's confronted calmly and factually, she completely flips out and goes into toddler mode.

I already told my fiancée I'm skipping Christmas because I don't want to be called out with any number of micro aggressions again. What the **** are you supposed to do in situations like this? I feel like all my avenues are exhausted at this point. We've talked and talked and talked and talked... and then we've talked some more. Things have been hashed out. Boundaries have been set. 'I'd rather this just not come up any more in any form because I'm not seeking any sort of special treatment or acknowledgement' discussions have been had.
I should note at this point that these talks have occurred over the space of three years at this point; there's simply nothing left to talk about.
She does not do anything even remotely like this until she has an audience. Has anyone else ever dealt with something similar?

Quote from: Stone Magnum on November 24, 2016, 11:45:44 PMI already told my fiancée I'm skipping Christmas because I don't want to be called out with any number of micro aggressions again. What the **** are you supposed to do in situations like this?

You do exactly what you're doing -- you don't see the crazy aunt in these situations.  If she's at a gathering, you're not attending. 

Boundaries are very important.

Quote from: Sophia Sage on November 25, 2016, 12:21:36 AM
You do exactly what you're doing -- you don't see the crazy aunt in these situations.  If she's at a gathering, you're not attending. 

Boundaries are very important.

Yow.  Yup.  Avoid her.   She's figured out that she can (ab)use you to become the center of attention.  That won't stop.

Your Aunt has what is called a narcissistic personality and it is at an extreme end. That she makes other people squirm at her behaviour suggests they have experienced it before. It is unfortunately a very unpleasant behaviour to be present at. One of my close relatives has a more complex but similar syndrome and it was not until I banned her from being at any family event I attended that she began to understand where she was coming from.

Your Aunt of course would deny any such thing and be irrational in any suggestion of such self centre seeking behaviour. That is very typical of the personality problem.

This link may help. http://www.scienceofpeople.com/2014/05/how-to-deal-narcissists/

The best advice I got was basically doing what you are doing; ignore them and never associate with them.

If people realise they are profoundly narcissistic and seek psychiatric help they are often difficult to treat. However, they very seldom realise that they have any problem at all.

Cindy

She sounds like my grandmother...  she was borderline/narcissistic. She put me down in public as a child multiple times. extremely embarrassing. The cure? ignore!

Last time I was home, one of aunts did the same thing. At my dad's funeral no less.

I'm not seeing her again. Ever.

Ah, holidays. What a wonderful time.


Im not going to say that isnt bad, but, well your aunt seemed to be coping with that fact and its nice in the end she acknowledged your male name the second time around, as poorly as it were done. You'd be right to skip out on the next holidays though, and hopefully next time she heeds your request not to make your gender thr spotlight of conversation

Quote from: Cindy on November 25, 2016, 01:16:17 AM
This link may help. http://www.scienceofpeople.com/2014/05/how-to-deal-narcissists/

The best advice I got was basically doing what you are doing; ignore them and never associate with them.

It's interesting how some people seem to be attracted to this sort of personality as the election of the Donald has demonstrated.

Paige :)

I have a relative like that, though yours sounds a bit more childish. She is most definitely a narcissist, and realizes that having a trans person in her midst could get her some attention. So she's acting out at every opportunity with the goal of drawing attention to herself. She doesn't care how it impacts you as long as it means all eyes are on her. You're doing everything you should be doing. As long as you don't feed her, she can't hurt you.

I ended up giving mine an ultimatum in an email. It basically said I won't pretend I understand your motivations for treating me the way that you do, but I also know that I have options and I don't have to continue subjecting myself to your treatment. I said I'd be happy to discuss it in person, one-on-one prior to the next holiday, but that I would not feel comfortable attending another holiday gathering at their home until I had a commitment from them that this kind of behavior would stop.

They of course took the victim route ("Max doesn't understand how hard we try to accommodate him, no matter how hard we try it'll never be good enough, he's so mean blah blah blah"). So I don't see them anymore. While I do have other relatives I can spend the holidays with, even if I didn't I know it would be an improvement over going there and dealing with their nonsense.

There is absolutely no reason to continue putting up with the way she treats you and I don't think you have to justify to anyone why you don't want to go deal with her anymore. I wrote that email to mine knowing that it would not change anything, but I figured it would give me the ability to show other relatives that I had tried to be reasonable. If you're worried about damaging other relationships in the process of cutting her off, it may be something to consider.

I appreciate all of you responding and I'm also glad that everyone seems to generally concur that I'm not overreacting.

Under normal circumstances I wouldn't have had any contact with her after the first snafu--I've never been one to shy away from trimming toxicity out of my life--however, my situation as far as that goes is a little muddled.
My fiancée already doesn't speak to a good percentage of her family for various reasons. Most of her siblings are estranged from her in some form or another and she has almost zero contact with anyone from her mother's side of the family (including her own mother). She is the only one of five children that goes to see her dad and his family. The two of them are very, very close. It's a heavy (but accepted) obligation.
Unfortunately, her aunt lives directly across the street from her dad and grandmother rendering it impossible to see
one and not the other without causing a ton of dissention. That being said, we've been going over to her dad's now anywhere from 3-5 times a month for the last nine years so we're all far from being strangers.

The first tip off that made me realize I may be in for rough seas came right around the time I first came out to them. I did it two years prior to undergoing any HRT or surgery so that the people I was physically around the most would have enough time to adjust to the thought of it and get used to the pronouns.
Her aunt told me a story about how someone at her work had transitioned; it was like listening to a 30lb wrench falling down a steel hallway for me. This is how it went:

"Oh yeah! We had a guy transition at my work."
"Really?"
"Yup. He left as Larry and then one day he showed up wearing women's clothes and calling himself--herself?--Lorna. All of us were shocked!"
"You mean 'she', then?"
"I guess? We'd all gotten so used to seeing him--ugh, she... it?--as a guy so it was weird. I mean, good for him. ... ****, her. I was happy."

A thousand red flags flew up out of my *** and smacked me right in the back of my head. I still held out hope that her problem was ignorance, however, and I subsequently invested a good deal of energy talking to her about the realities and difficulties of transitioning. She seemed to understand it a lot more over time and, when it was just the four of us, she was absolutely fine.
It was the group setting that must have made it too irresistible for her to not have made it about herself.

I'm hoping that not attending Christmas will send a strong enough message for all of this to cease, though I'm expecting another private blowout will follow shortly thereafter.
Anyway... yeah. I can only avoid her so much in my tangled, precarious little web.

Should I just let this last thing slide without confrontation and prepare to lock horns with her for any other future events?
As much as I was angered and embarrassed by her latest gab, I do begrudgingly agree with WolfNight that this second go around at least seemed to be coming from a marginally better place.

I think I may be inadvertently turning into one of those people I can't stand--"HELP"  "lol not with any of those 28908093 suggestions, tho"--but I just don't want to jeopardize the relationship my fiancée has with that side of her family.

As long as you know that the aunt's behavior is not likely to change regardless of anything you say or do, and that you're most likely in for more of the same treatment if you go, then there's no issue. It really all comes down to how much you're willing and able to put up with. I'm able to put up with quite a lot, but my willingness to do so based on my current circumstances is exceptionally low - thus no contact with my relatives. Your circumstances are different due to not wanting to further isolate your fiancee - based on this, you have to be more willing to put up with whatever treatment you receive, until it gets to the point that you are unable to do so.

I think what you really need to do is talk to your fiancee (which I'm sure you already have). What does she think about all this? What has she done in these situations that have occurred in the past? What is she willing to put up with? Relationships and marriage involve compromise from both parties. You're obviously willing to let yourself be very uncomfortable for her sake. What concessions is she willing to make to reduce that?

I think going no contact with relatives is tough if everyone in the household isn't on board. Low contact is a good option though, and you may find that with time it solves some of your issues. Perhaps in talking to your fiancee, you could find some more middle ground options that will help improve things for you? Some ideas:

- You limit the number of hours you spend there. Set a firm "we leave at 5pm" deadline before you go. Downside to this would be the understanding that when you go to someone's house you're somewhat at the mercy of their ability to keep on the schedule they've set. Some folks are not great at telling people when food will actually be served vs. when they want people to get there so that they can socialize. Overall though, this could be a good option for both holidays and regular visits as well.

- You could reduce the total number of holiday visits. If you usually go there every major holiday, consider cutting it in half and doing other things. You might go for Thanksgiving and Christmas, but perhaps on Easter you volunteer and the 4th of July you spend with friends at home or you travel just the two of you. Upside would be that you guys are starting your own family traditions.

- You two could take her dad out for a meal instead of attending the family meal. He'd have to be on board for it, and it would probably cost you more money than what you would've otherwise spent but she still gets to see her dad and you get a hassle free holiday. For regular non-holiday visits, instead of just visiting at home you could plan activities that get you out of the neighborhood. Go to lunch, go to a movie, go hiking, go to a museum, etc.

No matter what you decide - hugs! It is definitely not a fun place to be in. I hope you and your fiancee are able to figure out something that works well enough for both of you.

Honestly with friends and relatives the more confident I was that I had helped them understand a bit better, the less they seemed to (it would become evident later when they said something dismissive or generally nasty about trans people even after seeming to be cool about it for some time). I thought I had got through to them, but now I'm just wary of even bothering to try to. Seems a waste of time with some of them. I probably would have got farther by just continuing as normal and not telling them a thing and letting them guess for themselves.

I felt uncomfortable at family events many years before I knew I was partially trans. I suppose it was from dysphoria, from the assumption by others that I was a typical cis female. I relieved my misery by hiking around the area most of the visit while the rest were hanging out, and avoiding eating very much of the food, which invariable gave me two weeks of congestion.

I began skipping family events, except with particular siblings I liked, and going off on bird photography camping trips to celebrate holidays. I didn't even know I was partially trans and wore androgynous clothing, passing as a sort of tomboy female, yet still, I felt uncomfortable around my female relatives, who kept trying to include me in conversations to which I didn't at all relate, expecting me to join in doing things I found boring and repulsive. Hanging with the men to laugh and joke about politics was more comfortable.

I moved to Thailand in 2010 and no longer have to cope with relatives at all. My daughter came last year just before New Year and we spent it at Ao Nung Beach, near Krabi, Thailand, in our bathing suits by the ocean.

I have felt perfectly comfortable in Thailand, where people usually correctly gender me, despite my clothing, and accept me for what I am. I am never expected to behave in any gender specific manner, since many Thai are varying degrees of transgender and a high percentage, if not most, are bi.

I do realize that most people are trapped into seeing relatives on holidays, but I didn't want to, so didn't.