Susan's Place Transgender Resources

What is the difference between electrolysis and laser hair removal?

Also, I'm nervous about starting with my facial hair. Could I start with arm pit, chest, and belly hair?

In general, laser hair removal uses a pulsed laser applicator and is performed over a specific area.  It is limited in it effectiveness by a number of factors, including skin color (the lighter your skin the more effective) and hair color (the darker your hair the better).  Laser removal will generally not affect gray hair, and will tend to reduce, but not eliminate body hair in the region of interest. 

Electrolysis is the application of electric current (and/or heat) to the follicle of individual hairs, weakening or killing them one by one.  It is the only really permanent method, although some people have good results with laser as well. 

I did in fact start my electrolysis on my back and underarms, and had wonderful results in both areas, and find this is a good way to "break the ice" on hair removal in a low risk way.  Now, it takes a LONG time to get all of the hairs, and becomes quite expensive over time.  While laser can be cheaper, you may or may not have to go back over some of the areas with electrolysis, depending upon your results. 

There are tons of threads here on this subject, so please take a look through for more insights and experiences.  There are plenty of people here with more experience and knowledge than me, so please make good use of these resources and good luck! 

L

I have had about 35 sessions of laser and around 40 hours of electrolysis over the course of 18 months. I'm damned close to finished with hair removal.

Laser uses a specific frequency of light at which energy is absorbed into dark hairs. The energy is transferred as heat down into the hair follicle, which distorts and usually kills it. It seems debatable whether or not laser is permanent. Some people may need an annual follow up treatment. Some don't. However, laser does not work on fair or light hairs, and isn't great with dark skin. Once you have lasered most of your facial hair, you will often find some grey, blonde, or light hairs left that won't respond to laser.

Electrolysis has several different techniques. They all involve the insertion of a probe (needle) directly into the hair follicle and the application of electrical current and/or heat. This will kill the hair follicle and the hair is removed immediately.

There are a lot of pros and cons of each.


GROWTH REQUIRED:
You need to grow hair out for electrolysis, so it is long enough to grab with tweezers. With laser, you can treat areas that have been shaved (but not waxed).

Laser is very fast, but will need multiple sessions. The hair is not removed right away, but will fall out naturally over the course of two weeks following treatment. With elelectrolysis, the hair is removed on the spot.


SPEED:
Laser can treat a large area very fast. A full face takes around 15 minutes. Electrolysis treats one hair at a time and is very slow. Some operators can work quite fast, but it also depends on your tolerance for pain.

Hair grows in three distinct cycles, which means that only 1/3 of the hair follicles are actually treatable at any one time. For hormonal areas of the body, a cycle will take approximately 2 weeks. That means every two weeks, new hairs are emerging.

Most people report somewhere between 20-40 treatments are needed to clear a face with laser, spread out over 12 months. The electrolysis manual states that around 250 hours of electrolysis is needed to clear a male full face.

PAIN:
I would say the pain with laser is moderate, and gets worse with more time on HRT. I would describe the pain level with electro as high, and very high around the top and bottom lip. A lot of electro places can do various forms of pain relief - full dental blocks, nitrous oxide gas, or lignocaine cream.  It can still be very painful in some spots.

With both, expect some swelling and breakouts in the days following treatment.

You can treat with both electrolysis and laser concurrently. Just instruct your electrolygist to concentrate on light hairs that won't get any effect from laser.

NON-FACIAL AREAS
Laser is excellent for larger areas - arm pits, chest, tummy. These areas are not particularly sensitive so they are not too painful. They will need a lot less treatments than the face. Electrolysis on such large areas is not really realistic.

COST:
I pay $40 for each full face laser session. I pay $120 per hour for electrolysis plus pain relief. Another thing to bear in mind is that hormones will affect the hair on your body but not your face. Not sure if you are considering HRT, but feminising hormones will make your body hair much softer and thinner, like baby hair. However, hormones won't do this for your face. If you are strapped for cash, I'd always treat the face first. Facial hair is a strong gender marker, and hard to hide, even with makeup.

Depending on what your plans are, and whether (and to what extent) you want to transition, it is good to start early with facial hair removal, because it can take a long time for some people to get rid of it.

Does any of that help?

Look luck on your journey! <3


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Where do you go for $40 for full face?  I've been looking around nearby areas, and it is around $150 per session for just the face, discounts apply for paying for 3 or 6 sessions at one time.

Quote from: Alora on December 01, 2016, 12:05:53 AM. . . starting with my facial hair. Could I start with arm pit, chest, and belly hair?

Try Casodex as a sole anti-antigen instead!! After years of use (stopped two years ago) I no longer have "arm pit, chest, and belly hair" at all! Not to mention hair on legs which is now completely BARE as well! My 'ex' thinks I still shave my legs but not the case . . .

Go Figure!!

Quote from: Alora on December 01, 2016, 12:05:53 AM
Also, I'm nervous about starting with my facial hair. Could I start with arm pit, chest, and belly hair?

You are better off to start with the most visible areas, i.e. the face.  For electrolysis, you have to not shave for several days.  That is much easier to get away with before you are full-time.  Less visible areas can be done later.

Quote from: Artesia on December 01, 2016, 06:19:05 AM
...it is around $150 per session for just the face, discounts apply for paying for 3 or 6 sessions at one time.

Where are you located?

I use Laser Clinics Australia.  They have hundreds of stores all over the country.  Their base price for full face is $59, falling to $48 if you book 6 treatments at a time.  They have specials periodically, when you can book 1 face treatment for $39, with a further discount for six.  You can accumulate the credits on your account, so I often book three sessions for $120.

They use Candela GentleLASE for hair removal purposes.  They also have GentleYAG for darker skin types.

If you're nervous about starting on your facial hair, well...

As others have said, this is the really critical area to work on.  Hormones might take care of the rest of your body hair, so why spend money on treating them?  I say, if you're nervous, have laser/electrolysis start on your neck.  Still has to be done, still crucial, but much less visible and a good way, actually, to determine if you've found a good operator.

Electrolysis has been proven to permanently destroy hairs whereas laser, only permanently reduce hairs.

Quote from: Claire_Sydney on December 01, 2016, 08:18:36 AM
Where are you located?

I use Laser Clinics Australia.  They have hundreds of stores all over the country.  Their base price for full face is $59, falling to $48 if you book 6 treatments at a time.  They have specials periodically, when you can book 1 face treatment for $39, with a further discount for six.  You can accumulate the credits on your account, so I often book three sessions for $120.

They use Candela GentleLASE for hair removal purposes.  They also have GentleYAG for darker skin types.

It's super expensive here in Seattle. Single session can cost upwards of $100. But I'm going to start looking around.


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Quote from: Alora on December 01, 2016, 12:05:53 AM
What is the difference between electrolysis and laser hair removal?

Also, I'm nervous about starting with my facial hair. Could I start with arm pit, chest, and belly hair?

My strong advice is to start electrolysis on facial hair NOW and forget about body treatments. Everybody sees your face, and it's very hard to have a successful transition with a five o'clock shadow. With hormones and anti-androgens, body hair can drastically reduce over time, and you will end up spending far less on hair removal than you might have done. When I started transitioning for good in my early 20s I had already had most of my face cleared via electrolysis, and that along with hormones was the best thing I ever did for my passability. I was pretty hairy before, body-wise, but after hormones and an orchiectomy the vast majority of that hair either reduced to peach fuzz or vanished entirely. I am using electrolysis now to touch up any excess hair on my tummy and am having my underarm and bikini line done as well. I have to disagree with the other poster that electrolysis isn't practical for these areas; you just have to find a good operator and commit the time.

In short, save your money for facial hair removal via electrolysis (as much/quickly as you can afford) and worry about body hair after hormones and antiandrogens have been given a few years. You will probably find you need much less hair removal than you did.

QuoteElectrolysis has been proven to permanently destroy hairs whereas laser, only permanently reduce hairs.

I had laser to remove all my hair below my neck.  When I go in for touch ups, they often can't find much to remove.  However, a lot depends on your hair colour.  Dark hair absorbs the laser more than lighter hair and provides better results.

Quote from: JamesK on February 26, 2017, 08:50:46 PM
I had laser to remove all my hair below my neck.  When I go in for touch ups, they often can't find much to remove.  However, a lot depends on your hair colour.  Dark hair absorbs the laser more than lighter hair and provides better results.

So long as you are getting Medical Grade Laser and not IPL then you will, providing you have the right colour hair and skin colour get a large reduction...When a hair follicle is destroyed properly whether it be via Laser or Electrolysis then it is Dead. Laser can only Kill hairs that are in the growth phase, if the hair has gone into its naturally dying off phase ready for replacement then it will continue to grow as before not affected by Laser, where as, Electrolysis gets it either way. Laser is way better for your skin.

If you have dark hair and lighter toned skin then you may get really good results. I have a slight olive tone to my skin which works well with the dark hairs so I have had great results with Laser...IPL, not so much

Liz

I have had 10 treatments of laser and all I have left are my upper lip which is patchy and below my lower lip. There is maybe 40 hairs on my chin which are very soft and dark. I am not seeing a huge reduction the last two treatments compared to before so I asked the girl to crank it. I nearly pee'ed my pants lol it hurt so much. But I will do maybe 3 more and if it not going away I will get the mouth area done with electrolysis.

I started of with a VERY dark set of facial hair and light skin so it helped. Although I spotted around 10-11 white soft hairs near my jawbone ear area that I had never seen before that were about 5mm long :(

Quote from: Sarah leah on February 27, 2017, 07:03:45 AM
I have had 10 treatments of laser and all I have left are my upper lip which is patchy and below my lower lip. There is maybe 40 hairs on my chin which are very soft and dark...

Although I spotted around 10-11 white soft hairs near my jawbone ear area that I had never seen before that were about 5mm long :(

If you can count the hairs, I would go for electrolysis.  Laser may or may not take them away (certainly not the white ones).  Sounds like these can easily be cleared in one session. 

Erin

Quote from: ElizabethK on February 26, 2017, 11:49:43 PM
if the hair has gone into its naturally dying off phase ready for replacement then it will continue to grow as before not affected by Laser, where as, Electrolysis gets it either way.

I had electrolysis done and the principle is the same. If the hair is in its catagen or telogen phose (no longer grows), the hair won't be killed permanently. You need to ALWAYS target the hair while it is in its growth phase, no matter the modality.

Quote from: KayXo on February 27, 2017, 08:39:13 AM
I had electrolysis done and the principle is the same. If the hair is in its catagen or telogen phose (no longer grows), the hair won't be killed permanently. You need to ALWAYS target the hair while it is in its growth phase, no matter the modality.

Thanks you learn something new every day...I had an argument a few weeks ago about this exact thing and I was "persuaded" by my "friends" that Electrolysis will kill all hairs irrelevant of their stage of growth...I was of the opinion( from what I had read somewhere couldn't remember where) that they needed to be in the growing phase to be killed...you can't kill something that is already dead was the logic.

Part of the issue I think surrounding hair removal is that people simply don't understand the growth stages and how they effect hair removal. Peoples experience with Laser is a good example, some didn't do it long enough, have the right colour combination hair and skin, they may have plucked or assisted after Laser treatment to remove hairs, facial hair too long when having treatment, type of Laser used are all factors in its success. I have just recently taken to making sure when I am talking about laser, that I relate that you make sure you are getting what you paid for. IPL is not Laser and if you are concerned ask them outright...those who have lasers don't beat around the bush about it. Those who don't, say things like "Its the same, its all light" medical grade laser is not IPL but IPL can and is marketed as Laser. I got caught so I am sure there are others out there that have as well.

Liz

The only thing I take issue with is that there is no guarantee with laser even if all the right circumstances are in place such that 1 yr later, hairs may regrow. Certainly not unheard of and imagine if you are fulltime, have spent a ton of money and suddenly, you see this happening. Electrolysis, on the other hand, if done by competent individuals, will result in permanent removal of hairs. You know you aren't throwing your money away and you can be sure they won't ever regrow.

If you find the right place though laser can be a godsend. It would take a month to heal from electrolysis but i was tailor made for laser. My package included a lifetime deal so if hair DOES regrow years later then i get zapped for free. Recovery time from laser was less than a day and i was hairless 12 days later.

Quote from: KayXo on February 28, 2017, 09:15:43 AM
The only thing I take issue with is that there is no guarantee with laser even if all the right circumstances are in place such that 1 yr later, hairs may regrow. Certainly not unheard of and imagine if you are fulltime, have spent a ton of money and suddenly, you see this happening. Electrolysis, on the other hand, if done by competent individuals, will result in permanent removal of hairs. You know you aren't throwing your money away and you can be sure they won't ever regrow.

Electrolysis in not going to be permanent unless a number of things are done correctly. Laser is exactly the same and many, many, people out there have had amazing results including me.

There is no method out there that can kill a dormant hair follicle  and until this can be done you will always have stragglers.  I have spoken to a number of Trans women who claim to have been having laser with poor results and upon further investigation find out it was IPL and not laser, hence why the poor results or that they were "assisting dead hair removal by plucking out the dead ones" or had marginal pigmentation that would allow effect treatment or who had unrealistic expectations

IPL is not Laser, however it is marketed as the same...like saying Electrolysis and Plucking are the same.

Electrolysis if not done correctly will lead to scarring, infections and regrowth where the follicle has not been killed in the first treatment making further treatment subsequently more difficult. If the correct amount of energy is not applied to the follicle then it will not die. You can't kill dormant hairs with todays technology. You can't kill an already dead hair, so like laser the only ones you will take out permanently are those in the growth stage. Understanding how each method works is critical to getting a good result. As you will have the correct expectation...It is so important to let the Laser treated hair fall out with no assistance.

With IPL I was not having to wait a year as regrowth was happening within 6 months and some areas had no reduction at all. Although here is an interesting observation

When I first went to have Laser the technician charged me $105 for the treatment as it is based on the amount of time the Laser is actually firing, When I had my last session(6 months ago) this was the cost but after having 7 IPL sessions the cost for the laser was down by nearly half as it took far less time to cover the black hairs than it used to...I don't know but I suspect I am going to get more regrowth from the IPL treatments but time will tell. So even though  IPL is not supposed to be effective, it would seem purely from anecdotal evidence that it does actually provide some hair removal...permanent ? I highly doubt it.



Liz

Quote from: LShipley on February 28, 2017, 02:46:24 PMRecovery time from laser was less than a day

Recovery from electrolysis was also less than a day, very easy, at least for me.

Quote from: ElizabethK on February 28, 2017, 04:50:43 PM
Electrolysis in not going to be permanent unless a number of things are done correctly. Laser is exactly the same and many, many, people out there have had amazing results including me.

Under the right circumstances, electrolysis has proven to permanently lead to hair elimination (several studies) whereas the same cannot be said for laser yet and this is why the FDA only states it permanently REDUCES hairs. Time will tell. I'd rather go with the proven method but to each their own. Some have had success with laser, that's true but others haven't, even with everything else being just right.

Also, electrolysis can target non pigmented or lightly pigmented hairs whereas laser cannot.