Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi everyone!

I am MtF transgender, been on prescription hormones (E, P & S) for about 12 months, I was on internet purchased hormones for a few years before that (Prescription works much better BTW) I am at the higher end of the dosage range because I am not a petite girl. My test results come back almost textbook perfect.

I am really wanting to lactate, I have tried all the stuff I read on the internet (herbs, stimulation, breast pump etc) without success. I have once in a great while been able to get a few drops of sweet tasting liquid out of my nipple but that's about it.

So I turn to you guys for advice. Has your transition Doctor helped induce lactation? Has anyone ever asked them to? Do you think they would if I asked?

Thanks once again for your help!

Wendy

Time is key.  At least every three hours  consistently.  I want to too. 


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It is possible and there is something a doctor can prescribe for it that's kind of an offlabel use of a certain medication. I'm not sure I should say more though

I've been successful with this. I'd be happy to answer any questions.

I would love to express my breast milk too!

I have been pumping regularly for over a year now (I am pumping as I post), but I am still more or less dry.

I am using a dual hospital grade pump, and I get sucked really hard, it hurts.

I am really titty, I have got significant breast volume and my nipples feel really heavy.

I can't go without a bra for support, and I wear nipple shields to prevent the bra from pushing my nipples back.

I have had a few discharges, but nothing that I could claim to be feminine breast milk.

When pumping, I feel so subservient & submissive, all I want is to be sucked dry! 

Pumping shouldnt ever hurt, if it does then you need to ease back else you're causing damage/unnecessary bruising which makes achieving actual lactation way more difficult than it needs to be. The same goes for hand expressing (marmet technique) which is technically the next best thing apart from actual suckling. Pumping is like the least effective way to induce lactation but it helps a ton if you do it in conjunction with hand stimulation.

Quote from: Lady_Oracle on December 24, 2016, 09:20:58 PM
Pumping shouldnt ever hurt, if it does then you need to ease back else you're causing damage/unnecessary bruising which makes achieving actual lactation way more difficult than it needs to be. The same goes for hand expressing (marmet technique) which is technically the next best thing apart from actual suckling. Pumping is like the least effective way to induce lactation but it helps a ton if you do it in conjunction with hand stimulation.

What is the best way to achieve lactation?


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If you're going to do this please at least let your doctor know.

There's a bunch of ways to go about it. The key elements are sticking to a routine, proper diet and vitamins (makes a huge difference), lots of water and making sure you do not miss a session. A routine is basically every 3-4 hrs, you spend about 10-15min on each breast stimulating them with marmet technique which includes expressing your breasts. Lactation is all about supply and demand. So you have to trigger the demand function in your brain to let your breasts know to produce milk. Thats essentially the gist of it.

As trans women though we face unique challenges. For example its better to wait until your breasts are at least past the early stages of development so they're more receptive to inducing. But the way I've managed to be successful is not only were my breasts more or less fully developed (were in between stages 4-5) I've been on progesterone for close to 5 years now and so my breasts have developed plenty of milk glands and all the proper tissue.  The other challenge is being on AAs and dealing with the dryness that comes with that. Inducing takes a heavy toll on the body and saps your vitamins fast so you have to be able to keep a diet that can easily supplement that loss. Also expressing your breasts in itself will dry you out once you start getting closer to producing milk.

Quote from: Lady_Oracle on December 24, 2016, 10:40:26 PM

As trans women though we face unique challenges. For example its better to wait until your breasts are at least past the early stages of development so they're more receptive to inducing. But the way I've managed to be successful is not only were my breasts more or less fully developed (were in between stages 4-5) I've been on progesterone for close to 5 years now and so my breasts have developed plenty of milk glands and all the proper tissue.

So for those of us that haven't started HRT yet (but hopefully soon, otherwise I have to wait till June) can I/we still do the massaging to create the habit? How long does it take to get to stage 4/5?

Thanks


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Quote from: Alora on December 24, 2016, 11:08:52 PM
So for those of us that haven't started HRT yet (but hopefully soon, otherwise I have to wait till June) can I/we still do the massaging to create the habit? How long does it take to get to stage 4/5?

Thanks


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Yeah you totally can, inducing is a long and strenuous process, it takes a lot of work. Also you can still lactate at the early stages, its just not as great since the structure in the breast isn't fully there. The most I got prehrt was just clear fluid. I reached those stages within the typical timeline which was about 3-4 years or so but I started hrt young so thats probably a factor. If you're older it might take a bit longer than average and your genetics obviously play a role too. And some of us take even longer to reach stage 5, like years and years. Full breast development can take as long as a decade.

Why would you want to lactate?

You do need to develop your breasts, but more importantly you also need to increase your Prolactin higher and higher as with pregnancy. There are some other hormone changes that help! Are you aware of the use of Domperidone also called Motilium. These tablets assist adoptive mothers to breast feed their adopted baby. Message me if you need/want more information.

Quote from: Angélique LaCava on December 25, 2016, 12:27:48 AM
Why would you want to lactate?

I ask myself the same question.
Or perhaps those who want to lactate have the opportunity to breastfeed a baby ?

Edit: I must add that I would personally love to breastfeed a baby !

Since a few week  tip of my nipples are white . Has it anything to do with lactations ? Never tried

Here's an interesting link, I hope its ok to post it (I don' think the others I have are).

Trans Women and Breastfeeding: A Personal Interview
http://www.milkjunkies.net/2013/05/trans-women-and-breastfeeding-personal.html

Quote from: Lucie on December 25, 2016, 01:13:42 PM
I ask myself the same question.
Or perhaps those who want to lactate have the opportunity to breastfeed a baby ?

Edit: I must add that I would personally love to breastfeed a baby !

Eventually, I am going to adopt. I'd love to adopt a new born and breastfeeding is definitely something that I want to be able to do.


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The reasons why I started this process was because..

1. This is the closest I can to being pregnant so it brings some peace to that part of my life and how I feel about my body.
2. I plan on being a mom one day so I would like to be able to breast feed
3. I figured if I started now then by the time I do start a family, I'll be able to induce no problem. Inducing takes a lot of time and effort. Its a very long process that takes years and not easy to do by any means.

Progesterone was key for me. Some cis women use herbs, some use birth control pills, then there's specific drugs, even a combination of all of those or nothing at all and do it solely through breast stimulation but the premise is that you trick your body into thinking its pregnant by simulating the same conditions. If you use P then you have to basically be on it for at least 9months to a year then abruptly stop to mimic the postpartum phase (E & P levels drop sharply). Thats more or less how I started the process and I've done it with progesterone only, no herbs or any other drugs.

Thank you everyone for the tips, most of them I have tried with no luck, I would really like to know if any of you have asked your doctor for prescription help and what their response was.

I did send my doctor an email asking for a prescription so we'll see what happens tomorrow....

Wendy

Thanks AnonyMs  ;)

Wendy

Quote from: AnonyMs on December 25, 2016, 01:38:26 PM
Here's an interesting link, I hope its ok to post it (I don' think the others I have are).

Trans Women and Breastfeeding: A Personal Interview

Thank you very much AnonyMs, this is a really interesting testimony.

Hi Wendy,
This is the link that covers Induced lactation by breast pumping and the combination of pumping and Domperidone!

I hope you have some success as I have!  :)
Riki



Edit for TOS 1 violation

To induce lactation, you need to be on high enough levels of estradiol and progesterone for several months, at least, perhaps even longer so that your breasts develop enough (ducts and milk glands inside the breast) to be able to produce and distribute enough milk. Estradiol and progesterone will both naturally increase prolactin levels so you don't need to take anything else that increases prolactin. My levels are around 80-130 ng/ml (typical of  pregnant and breastfeeding women), on just estrogen and progesterone. Bio-identical hormones are safest so it's best to stay away from birth control pills. Herbs aren't necessary and can cause side-effects as well if you don't know what you're doing.

Once your breasts are properly developed, then hormones should be stopped as these inhibit milk production so as long as estrogen and/or progesterone are present, milk production will be little to absent (i.e. colostrum, yellow), despite high prolactin levels, as is the case during pregnancy, usually.

Upon hormone discontinuation, nipple stimulation, every few hours, will stimulate prolactin and oxytocin production, which promote milk production and ejection, respectively.

Lactating may result in calcium/phosphorus loss so that it is important to keep an eye on these things and consume enough dairy or other products to keep up with the demand and not have decalcification/bone loss.  Vitamin D is important. A multivitamin should help.

As always, please discuss and share all this information with a competent doctor and have them be on board with you, supervise you, take the appropriate blood/physical tests. You need to also be patient. Best of luck. :)

The first idea that pops into my head is: get Pregnant.

But realisticly, it is all about hormones.

I have natural breasts that came in with puberty. When our children were young, I could produce a few ounces daily from each side. It is very fulfilling to be able to feed your baby with your own body.
To this day, whenever I see a woman breastfeeding, my nipples tingle and my whole breast will ache for several days

I wish you joy in this journey.

Thanks everyone, your advice is all right on! I did hear back from my Dr. today and he is totally behind helping me lactate! WOO HOO! I Love that guy! He is sending me a prescription (which I need to fill at my Canadian Pharmacy) I intend to take this in conjunction with the other items mentioned in here.I'll update on my progress!

I am soooooo excited! ;D

Wendy

Lactating without being pregnant is known as galactorrea. It's not a "normal" situation, but caused by high levels of the hormone prolactin.

Prolactin is what causes the breasts to produce milk. Prolactin is produced by the pituitary gland. 


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Interesting..  I've read those links before but one thing I hadn't read was if you have to stop taking hormones for the entire time you want to lactate or if they start them again once production has started?

Time off estrogen would be so stressful to me  :o

I believe that retaking hormones would eventually stop lactation as these inhibit milk production while prolactin alone, promotes milk production.

Quote from: LShipley on December 27, 2016, 01:36:49 PM
Interesting..  I've read those links before but one thing I hadn't read was if you have to stop taking hormones for the entire time you want to lactate or if they start them again once production has started?

Time off estrogen would be so stressful to me  :o

Hi, my experience is that you lower the amount of HRT not stop to achieve lactation. I wouldn't recommend stopping, as for me the pain of the disphoria would not be worth it.

I achieved lactation a few years back, I did it with the guidance of my doctor..(Don't mess with hormones without a medical professional)

Ít takes patience and is quite commitment. At my peak I managed to extract about half the amount of milk a mother would need to feed a child. I use to extract twice a day using an electric breast pump when working and more on my days off. When you breasts are full of milk it can be very uncomfortable and can hurt. It actually feels quite amazing when the pump extracts the milk, hard to describe. I remember feeling so female.

My breasts become more fuller and rounded out nicely and these affects for me were permanent. 

Someday my man and I want to adopt children and if possible I would like achieve lactation again to breast feed the baby. I am not sure, if the milk we produce from our hormone treatments will be as nutrient rich as from a cis-females.

Quote from: KayXo on December 27, 2016, 01:53:24 PM
I believe that retaking hormones would eventually stop lactation as these inhibit milk production while prolactin alone, promotes milk production.

The page at https://www.drugs.com/breastfeeding/estradiol.html provides an interesting insight about estrogen intake while breastfeeding.

I think progesterone inhibits lactation more so than does estrogen. I could be wrong. Estrogen also stimulates prolactin release.

Well, it took forever for the Domperidone to arrive, but it got here two days ago So, here we are, just two days later I am getting clear; sweet flavored drops from each nipple WOO HOO! In 4 days I am gonna decrease the other hormones which should light the match to the fuel....

I am soooooo excited!

Today the clear liquid turned a yellowish cream color and there is more of it, but it is not sweet like the clear fluid was. I suspect it is Colostrum.

This is most excellent!

Quote from: KayXo on February 01, 2017, 04:20:38 PM
I think progesterone inhibits lactation more so than does estrogen. I could be wrong. Estrogen also stimulates prolactin release.

It does, you're absolutely right. All I have to do is start taking P continuously again and my milk pretty much dries up. Its ideal for when you're building your breast tissue as you know of course, I just wanna mention that I've steadily done so the times I'm on it. The trick is you really just have to up your diet to compensate to see a true increase in volume and so you should develop more breast tissue following the marmet technique. The problem is you have to be consistent every single day with hand expression/pumping and not miss a session, combine that with the increase in diet, its not easy at all. Your breasts will swell a lot more basically and fat builds better. Of course this is whatever is within your genetics. However my e intake stays the same for the most part and I dont really see any decrease in my supply. The sharp drop in E I'm guessing is only needed to trigger the milk to come in after that its not as important. I'm only saying this based on my own experience so far. There's not a lot of data on this subject regarding trans women, let alone pre-op, so I could be wrong.

Quote from: 2Wendy2 on February 09, 2017, 10:37:26 AM
Today the clear liquid turned a yellowish cream color and there is more of it, but it is not sweet like the clear fluid was. I suspect it is Colostrum.

This is most excellent!

It's not colostrum, thats a common misconception. I hate to put this so bluntly but only someone who goes through a full pregnancy can develop colostrum. Those of us who induce cis or trans cannot produce colostrum at all. Nipple discharge pre lactation can be anywhere from clear to yellow, even green which are typical discharge colors. Its pretty common for some form of liquid to be ejected if you squeeze enough. When you start to see cloudy white, you're probably close.

Thanks Lady_Oracle, I didn't know that. Just when you think you've done all the research something else pops up  :)

Given this new revelation my best guess it's milk and it's fixin' to let loose!  :)

Wendy

I am sooooo excited about all of this, I have been trying for years to lactate with little success, today I got my first wet spots on the front of my tee shirt, not only is my shirt wet, but my panties are totally soaked  :embarrassed:

I really want to keep this going, I am going to speak with my doctor about it....Have I mentioned I am really excited?  :angel:

Well, cut way back on E & P today to try and bring my milk in all the way. My research tells me that will take about 3 days, I have my fingers crossed!

i will let you know ASAP how it works....

Wendy

Update: I am producing about a tablespoon of breastmilk a day from each breast. For some reason I cannot get a single drop using a breast pump (I have a Medela Pump in Style Advanced, not a cheap one) I use it for at least 20 minutes every 3-4 hours, on all kinds of different settings to no avail. But the second I take it off and hand express I get a lot. Going to sell it, I bought a Spectra S1 that should be here in a few days.

For the first time yesterday I felt the pressure of fullness, not necessarily pain just uncomfortable, once I got home and hand expressed it was all better. I can pretty much squeeze out a few drops whenever I want to, all good!

All of this just feels so natural, so fulfilling, so good. I have a Dr appt in a couple week and an besides blood work I am going to discuss how I can keep this going it, I absolutely love it!

Since you are feeling fullness, you are probably starting to produce more.  You are probably doing the the right things to get things going for you.  Next thing you will notice is leaking in your bra being wet.

mm...

You nailed it; today I started squirting!  ;)

About 2 weeks after starting Domperidone and I am lactating all the time. I have not yet received my new breast pump and my old one does not work on me for some reason so I cannot give an accurate accounting of the volume, but my best guess at this point would be a couple tablespoons per day from each breast. I will update when my new breast pump arrives and if it works.

I can squirt regularly, mostly from the left nipple, and milk runs down from my breast and all the way down soaking my tummy as I hand express.

From my investigations at about the two-week period milk production begins to dramatically increase. I hope the new breast pump works; the wife is getting tired of me using all of her towels...lol

My new breast pump arrived today and after getting it goin' the milk started flowin'  :) When I was done I hand expressed and got some but the pump got most all of it!

Now we're having fun!

I am glad you are enjoying lactation. I have fond memories of lactation. I attempted it a few years back. It takes patience to build up a supply of milk, but the more you extract the more you produce.

I had an electric double breast pump, so I could extract from both breasts at the same time. I used to extract twice a day, in the morning before, and in the afternoon after work. What I use to love, it was my time. I would close my bedroom door, get comfortable and extract for about 10 to 15 min (cant remember exact amount of time). I kinda loved how it felt when the breast pump cup created the suction and the way it pulled my nipple.

The amount of milk I produced, I would get each bottle about a quarter to half full. When i spoke with my doctor, she told me, if I were a nursing mom, i would have to had supplemented with formula. I was disappointed, maybe I never extracted enough times a day. I would love to adopt a baby some day, I would if possible and if my milk is of good enough quality.. breast feed the child.

I did notice my breasts rounded out nicely from the ordeal and for me these changes were permanent. I know for some women these changes are temporary. 

CONGRATS!!!  :icon_joy:

Noleen,
The pumps are great, but if you can find someone to actually suckle you next time you will have more volume. holding someone close while they are latched onto your nipple really does stimulate production. I wish you joy in your journey.
Jin

That would be nice, it's kinna strange, my wife is willing to consume my milk, but not suckle it. Not sure what the difference is but certainly not worth making an issue of it. She's pretty understanding and I will respect her limits.