Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hello,

I've been on hrt for about 1.5 years and still haven't socially transitioned, I was wondering if anyone else was in the same boat.  Curious as to your reason why and if you have plans to socially transition in the future.

Being in my 30's, I feel that I started hrt much later than most.  But so far, hrt has had decent effects; physical, mental, and emotional.  As to why I haven't socially transitioned?  I have no idea.  I'm sure it has something to do with fear of something (passing, being out to friends and peers, being judged, feeling like a fake, etc).... 

I just don't know how to get over that cusp of finally being out.  I have ffs scheduled tentatively for July and maybe that will help but I feel that even after that, I will still live and present male, even if I happen to pass. 

8 years so far for me. Trying to avoid various problems for the moment, but  I may socially transition in the future, hopefully. I don't think what I'm doing is generally a good idea.

There's a good post here on a related topic.

My low dose HRT experience (was 9 month low dose HRT)
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=130268.0

I think what you are looking for is the following links. In my case I was on HRT for a couple of years before the start of RLE. At first, I didn't know how to present and it took a while to connect with a therapy group that could help me and then it was a case of running the numbers. I need to get my facial hair under control and grow out enough hair for a proper hair style.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,207785.0.html
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,209589.0.html

Quote from: AnonyMs on December 27, 2016, 08:55:41 PM
8 years so far for me.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=130268.0

Omg, how were you able to hide it for so long? I mean, how do you keep yourself from socially transitioning if you don't mind me asking. Also, I read through some of the comments on the link you provided so thank you for that, I remember reading a while back when I first started hrt.

Quote from: Dena on December 27, 2016, 08:59:20 PM

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,207785.0.html
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,209589.0.html

Thank you for the links, I guess I'm actually looking women that decided to not transition and why, even if they would pass if they wanted to.  As I continue to go through the process, I'm really starting to reevaluate some things.

Hi WinterKat,
Me too! I have been on and off HRT for 15 years but only started formally under an endocrinologist and psychiatrist's care for the last 3 years! I am in my fifties and have too much at stake careerwis, and I am never going to be comfortable as a man in a dress! My strongest  disphorias are body and genital, with the obvious gender disphoria that goes with it! I don't need to present as female as much as I need to be female! If surgery could solve all the problems T has caused with my body ever looking female I would consider social transition. My wife is fully supportive but she likes me with a penis that works so I sometimes have a break from HRT for her, but the disphoria really kills me. I can't keep doing this forever.
I have been researching this and feel maybe I fit into the non binary transfeminine category because of this. I don't care what it is but it helps when explaining it!
Thanks for posting this as it's good to know others have the same problem!

Quote from: winterkat on December 27, 2016, 09:09:44 PM
Omg, how were you able to hide it for so long? I mean, how do you keep yourself from socially transitioning if you don't mind me asking.

I have an unusual lifestyle that probably makes some things a lot easier for me than most people. I hide changes in my face by growing facial hair. Clothes for the rest.

I'm not sure how I manage. I suspect I don't have such bad dysphoria as many do, or perhaps I'm non-binary to some degree. I don't really know. A full transitioning dose of HRT certainly helps my mental state. I think you can only see how it goes for you.

If you can do avoid it I would suggest you don't indefinitely delay transition. It has a fairly high cost.

I was on HRT for over 3 years, during that time I was an male investment banker and a financial conference speaker, with a cool pony tail. No RLE for me, srs and into a full female life

I've been on HRT for 2 years without a formal transition.  I don't really try to hide anything though.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

Quote from: warlockmaker on December 27, 2016, 10:19:56 PM
I was on HRT for over 3 years, during that time I was an male investment banker and a financial conference speaker, with a cool pony tail. No RLE for me, srs and into a full female life

I watched one of your video's. Couldn't help but notice the pony tale!

Wow, I'm amazed that so many women decided to not socially transition for so long. 

Quote from: Rikigirl on December 27, 2016, 09:24:36 PM
Hi WinterKat,
Me too! I have been on and off HRT for 15 years but only started formally under an endocrinologist and psychiatrist's care for the last 3 years!

omg, Riki, I don't know how you could have done that, 15 years on and off must have been super difficult!


I do have another question for everyone, if you were able to pass pretty easily, would you still stay hidden and just take hrt, even if you get male fail here and there?

I don't think it's actually many people, it just looks like it. Its probably a mostly older dmographic as well.

Hi Winterkat, I could have passed anytime but I'm from a prominant family and had obligations to fufill. Lucky my  family has a long life gene.

It sounds like both your question and some of the point of the answers is about dressing and visibly passing as female.

That to me isn't about social transition, I know transitioned women who pass and yet fundamentally remain male in socialization.

I'm the reverse of your question, I've been transitioning socially for 18 years and only started HRT and to move my appearance into the non-binary a year ago -- specifically to initiate RLE.

Quote from: SadieBlake on December 28, 2016, 12:11:05 AM
I'm the reverse of your question, I've been transitioning socially for 18 years and only started HRT and to move my appearance into the non-binary a year ago -- specifically to initiate RLE.

I don't understand what you mean there? Sounds like you Socially transitioned, but not somehow?

I didn't think you can get srs before RLE how did you do that?

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Quote from: warlockmaker on December 27, 2016, 11:51:22 PM
Hi Winterkat, I could have passed anytime but I'm from a prominant family and had obligations to fufill. Lucky my  family has a long life gene.

Hi Warlockmaker, I see this often (family obligations) that keeps some women from going past that threshold into presenting socially.  It's somewhat keeping me from coming out as well.   

Quote from: SadieBlake on December 28, 2016, 12:11:05 AM
It sounds like both your question and some of the point of the answers is about dressing and visibly passing as female.

That to me isn't about social transition, I know transitioned women who pass and yet fundamentally remain male in socialization.

I'm the reverse of your question, I've been transitioning socially for 18 years and only started HRT and to move my appearance into the non-binary a year ago -- specifically to initiate RLE.

Well, visibly presenting as female.  Not so much passing but I wanted to know if that was a factor in someone's decision.  I think I might pass if I presented female (a picture I just took about an hour ago, some light make up, etc. http://imgur.com/5Ex4dXr) 

But I can't seem to get over the hump of actually presenting female outside of the house.  I was trying to figure out why some women choose to remain in male mode so that it may somewhat help me understand my own reason or motivation, and what my fear is, exactly.

And I'm guessing you presented as female long before you started hrt?

I went two years HRT without transitioning to full time RLE... then abandoned the lot. Stopped HRT, threw away my clothes, cut my hair, went into denial for another twenty years. At the time I had a lot of fear about whether I would be accepted if I came out to family and work and then tried to live full time as a woman, I also thought I would struggle financially.

Beyond "I'll do HRT for two years and then go full-time" I had no game plan for RLE/social transition and when it came to the crunch I pressed 'abort' instead. I had believed I would just drift into RLE/FT social transition; problem was, I felt more fear the more that moment seemed likely to materialise. I kept thinking I'd know when I was ready, but I wasn't confident enough in myself for that to ever really happen and I just kept creating more and more conditions I felt I needed to pass/achieve before I'd be ready. On reflection I think I needed to acknowledge I could do it and say "this is where I jump in"...

Aborting my transition was the right thing to do at the time, I just needed to really get clear about what I wanted. Of course, that ended up taking me twenty years. This time I was much more emotionally prepared and in a better financial situation, plus I knew what I wanted... pass or not, I wanted to live as a woman, be seen as a woman and accepted as a woman and there was only one way that was ever going to happen... full time transition. I expected I'd do HRT for a year, but then I realised I was ready for full time at nine months and jumped in... that included dealing with my previous 'stumbling blocks' - telling my family and my colleagues/work. It was mega scary at the time, and outing myself to my family hasn't been without its drawbacks...but the payoff was that I am now doing what I really wanted to do, living how I wanted to as the person I wanted to be...and I was loving it from DAY 1.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is... be on HRT as long as you need to be, go full time when you feel the moment is right but try to avoid not having a plan for that moment. If you think you're not ready "because this" or "because that" then you may never feel you are ready and you potentially risk depriving yourself of the opportunity to break through and jump in and be who you want to be. :)

Quote from: Aeirs on December 28, 2016, 12:32:56 AM
I didn't think you can get srs before RLE how did you do that?

Wonderful transition without any RLE
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=209027.0

Its not common to do things like this, to the point where people think its not possible at all. You could even get SRS and not socially transition at all if you really wanted to.

Thank you Miss Grace, that was a beautiful write up and I am still reading and processing your wonderful message.  Thank you for writing this.

Quote from: winterkat on December 28, 2016, 12:48:06 AM
But I can't seem to get over the hump of actually presenting female outside of the house.  I was trying to figure out why some women choose to remain in male mode so that it may somewhat help me understand my own reason or motivation, and what my fear is, exactly.

I'm not doing it because of family and money. I have considerable fear as well, but I think (hope) its the first two that are blocking me at the moment. I don't think what I'm doing is sustainable much longer.

I'm always reminded of this post. This not the way I wish to live the rest of my life.

A strange but lovely meeting - I ended up crying so triggers
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=189165.5

Quote from: AnonyMs on December 28, 2016, 01:04:10 AM

Quote from: winterkat on December 28, 2016, 12:48:06 AM
But I can't seem to get over the hump of actually presenting female outside of the house.  I was trying to figure out why some women choose to remain in male mode so that it may somewhat help me understand my own reason or motivation, and what my fear is, exactly.

I'm not doing it because of family and money. I have considerable fear as well, but I think (hope) its the first two that are blocking me at the moment. I don't think what I'm doing is sustainable much longer.

I'm always reminded of this post. This not the way I wish to live the rest of my life.

A strange but lovely meeting - I ended up crying so triggers
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=189165.5

Now you have me in tears as well.

She has passed. I went to her funeral. Unbeknown to anyone I said goodbye to a sister and not a patient.

That really was a beautiful, thank you for sharing.  I've read it awhile back and when I was starting and really cemented my decision to start HRT.  My heart goes out to her.

Hi Winterkat;
Yes and its difficult.  I have transitioned twice (de-transitioning in between because of family and work). These days I have the relative luxury of living in both Great Britain and Australia (sort of commuting between the two countries). In Australia I try to live as much of my time as a Woman as possible, but when I am home in the United Kingdom as soon as I step off the plane, I am living 100% of my time as a woman. I also travel to the USA and Europe a bit and spend most of my time there too as a woman. It would be nice to be just myself 100% of the time, especially so I don't have to think about silly things like sending an email to a customer and signing myself as Judith. I have had emails back saying who is Judith?.or people on the phone saying that doesn't sound like you. The thing is these days my male voice sort of doesn't exist any more and I really have to think about using it.
I pretty much pass 100%, although I would love to really lose about 15-18kg. Not soo easy at my age. And friends always say I am much calmer and more relaxed as Judith. Whereas being my alter -ego is quite stressful. As my therapist says basically I am cross dressing as male. These days it feels sort of strange as Mens clothes basically don't fit properly any longer.
Judith

I've been on full dose HRT for 1.5 years but have not socially transitioned. Most of my family and friends know I'm trans but I choose not to present as female outside of the home; the reason for this is fear. No amount of hormones or surgery will reverse the damage that testosterone has done, and my fear is that I will never pass. That said, as societal acceptance of us trans folk continues to improve, I hope that one day I'll be able to overcome that fear and live fully and authentically as the woman I know I am.

Quote from: winterkat on December 28, 2016, 12:48:06 AM
I was trying to figure out why some women choose to remain in male mode so that it may somewhat help me understand my own reason or motivation, and what my fear is, exactly.

I have several reasons at the moment. 

First, HRT by itself has mostly eliminated my dysphoria and for the first time in my life I am living without that constant voice in my head.  So I have achieved much of what I originally wanted, which was to feel normal.

Second, as I said earlier, I really don't try to hide anything and when I'm out anonymously in public I'm often gendered female anyway.  Even when I'm not certain exactly what people are thinking they almost never say Sir anymore whereas before it was constant.  People's interactions with me are normally now different than before.  Here I am fortunate that I have all my hair, it is long, and my face is at least now pretty androgynous.

My third reason may or may not be a good one but here it is.  I don't really have an option, nor a real desire, to stop my life in place and start over somewhere that people don't know me.  While I work in a place with LBGT protections and could socially transition there, I am pretty well known and liked there and could not be invisible.  This is exacerbated since my work history is male exclusive and my work environment remains about 95% male.  I don't feel that going to work in considerably different clothes and having people that know me use a new name really addresses my needs when in their minds they have known me a long time and know who I am.   That feels more like a state of acting rather than a state of being.



It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

I was lucky in this regard.. I had all the same fears as the ladies here, my parents had already disowned me. I was very gender neutral in public, the only real hint of femininely was the studs I wore in my ears, my long hair and my shaved legs and all of these traits are acceptable for males as well.

Something happened in my life which kinda solved this for me.

Just after I started HRT, i moved to another town due to a business opportunity. So I on moving day, I got into the car as a male and got out on the other side as a female. We did travel over two days, so day 1, I wore a very gender neutral outfit, only underneath my female side was present, a panty and a sports bra, the sports bra helped protect my very sensitive nipples. The bra was not noticeable due to the hoodie I had on.

The second day, I wore a long winter dress, some hooped earrings and  I even put nail polish on my finger nails. When we arrived I was girl, and all the people I have met in my new life, have no idea I was ever born a male.

Quote from: winterkat on December 28, 2016, 12:48:06 AM

Well, visibly presenting as female.  Not so much passing but I wanted to know if that was a factor in someone's decision.  I think I might pass if I presented female (a picture I just took about an hour ago, some light make up, etc. http://imgur.com/5Ex4dXr) 

But I can't seem to get over the hump of actually presenting female outside of the house.  I was trying to figure out why some women choose to remain in male mode so that it may somewhat help me understand my own reason or motivation, and what my fear is, exactly.

And I'm guessing you presented as female long before you started hrt?

I didn't present as female in public at all before HRT. On the other hand all of the people i was close to have know forever that I consider myself trans and as I said I've been practicing a more feminine way of relating to people for a long time. I feel like Warlockmaker and I are very much reciprocal approaches, I care far more for passing as emotionally and relationally feminine than I do for passing visibly.

Because I had a plan to start modifying appearance at the same time as beginning hormones, I stopped caring whether a bra was visible under my clothes a few months before HRT and chose to stop getting haircuts well before and by the time last January arrived and it was time to start I could (just) tie it back in a ponytail.

I'm aiming for more feminine presentation and there are changes I'm not going to make, including wearing a wig and investing the huge amount of time and money that goes in to facial electrolysis (my beard is heavily grey so laser is only an option for small areas). So I still wear my beard for now and keep it close shorn as opposed to the long beard I've sported for decades. I may eventually remove the beard but being largely bald trumps passing.

Today my skin has changed remarkably (acquaintances who I've not seen since starting hrt can see that changed but may not pickup on other cues). My breasts are sufficiently grown and visible that i can see strangers noticing them. I wear somewhat more feminine attire, however I'm saving every penny for travel to SF for my GCS in April so my wardrobe remains extremely limited. I wear limited makeup and I learned long ago that an understated but complete makeup application can remarkably impact how people read and respond to me.

If I had a prayer of passing as well as seems readily possible for you I would have long since chosen to pass in daily life. I still would have opted for gradual change as I think it's easier on relationships to manage it that way, however I think the other way is equally viable, it's a YMMV thing

Welp, I've been on HRT 4 1/2 years now.   2 years on "androgynous" blood levels (low end E for F, low end T for M), rest of the time essentially on low transition dosage (T fully suppressed, whatever levels of E).

I'm in a "neutral" place - content with life and the dysphoria is well controlled.

Reasons I havent socially transitioned relate to the usual family and work constraints.  I lead a happy fulfilled life outside of the dysphoria and it's well managed enough with HRT that the benefits of social transition aren't big enough against all the upheaval that would bring.

On top of that, although I'm pretty confident I would pass if I put in sufficient effort, T has done enough to me that I'd never be quite happy with myself and would likely end up being a serial surgery junky.  :)

Just told my better half about gender disphoria, she welcomed it open arms. It's nice to know that I've got her support. Now comes the hard part with the counselors.

Quote from: winterkat on December 27, 2016, 11:10:34 PM
Wow, I'm amazed that so many women decided to not socially transition for so long. 

omg, Riki, I don't know how you could have done that, 15 years on and off must have been super difficult!

Hi Winterkat,

It was, but I didn't know why I kept wanting to have the body of a female and why I could not relate to my male body or penis. From childhood I was brought up by a strict military style father who literally smashed any female traits out of me. I was then sent to an all boys private school where they continued my fathers work in removing any signs of femininity as well. I was then expected to have a successful career and as my sexual orientation was towards women I just accepted it. The 60's and 70's were not trans friendly or even aware. There was no one to ask. Our Doctor/Physician was a family friend. I knew I wasn't gay, I did love sport, particularly male sports and I was in high powered business roles that were traditionally male. I could not work it out out. This was why I kept taking imported HRT, (why I wanted it and felt so good on it wasn't obvious to me, now it looks stupid I know) and then stopping when my female partners would wonder if I still loved them and why I we were not having sex as much as before. I read something on the web one day and suddenly the stars aligned and I knew. Unfortunately that was only about 10 years ago and it took another 5, another website, a book, followed by another relationship to work it out completely. My current partner is amazing and very supportive, but she is still attracted to the male form so we have some work to do. It's never easy!

Different from most that i know or read about. I spent so many years in the presentation/role of feminine male, that my transition to my true gender was almost a non-event socially. People have noticed changes for sure (hair, breasts, etc.) but i think many just took it in stride, given their understanding of me.

Other than perhaps in sports, i was never acting as a stereotypical male, never alpha, never concerned all that much about personal power, never took pride in masculinity or saw personal value in it.  If a bully tried to pick a fight, i'd find the nearest authority figure. Women are not weak and i'm not a weak, i just want to point out my behavior in relation to stereotypes. The list could go on and on.

Despite all of this, i realize i had some male privilege socially and have seen that disappear. That was sort of expected.

I have lived for about 7 years on HRT and haven't transitioned socially. I would love to continue to slowly make adjustments to my look (hair transplant, trache, longer hair), then transition at that point. I guess it all really comes down to my fear keeping me from transitioning. I just need to take steps to get past that. Unfortunately there aren't any transgender support groups near the city in which I live, I think that would do wonders for me.

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Thank you everyone for sharing your experiences.  It is a lot to consider and seeing as how this isn't as uncommon as I thought, I hate to admit that I'm somewhat glad that I'm not alone in being hesitant about being out and socially transitioning.

I guess I just find the ease of living as a male so much easier than living as a non-passing trans woman and although it bothers me, I learned to live with it.

I kind of look at it that I'm transitioning over a very long period of time. Slow-motion-male-fail (SM2F??). So from one month to the next my family and friends don't notice anything. My wife who is privy to all of this laughs when we look at pictures of me five or ten years ago. She points out the change. I've evolved from a outwardly typical man (athletic with beard and buzz cut too) into a feminine male - long hair, no facial hair, androgynous clothing, colors, jewelry, more female mannerisms and importantly, I've allowed the empathic and emotional part of me to be come out. It feels good just to get out of the male rat race which I was never made for! People just write me off as gay. Whatever. Physically, I've always had little breasts since before puberty so everyone is used to me hiding my bumps. And now, I've been on HRT for 3 weeks. I already feel an enormous sense of relief from the dysphoria. It's not as pervasive and constant. And the final nail in the libido coffin is such a gift.

Will I ever socially totally transition? I don't know, but like RobynD, I think when/if it happens it should be a non-event to those around me because personality wise I'm already living 24-7 as the woman I am sans name, pronouns and restrooms. Would I like to be validated by society? Would I like to wear a dress in public once in a while? Oh goddess yeah. I'm practical though and thankful too that I am where I am. I think after a while on HRT and some laser treatments I'll be able to go outside my social group as Lauren and get my social validation then. And I'll come out to more people as needed.

One last thought... is that politically, who knows whats going to happen over the next few years. It may not be the best of times to be overt. Even in my bluest of states, there's still a lot of hate and the red supporters are feeling very empowered...

I start hrt in 2008 in my teen but I never transition socially
The reason why is
I'm from Saudi Arabia and being trans or transitioning will send me to death penalty
I plan to escape for my life and complete my transition in safe place I'm in real danger right now
Meanwhile I have to hide myself for my life

YES EVERYONE SOME OF US IN REAL DANGER for being who they are !!

I pass as woman and this is BIG problem in country like Saudi Arabia
Because women here dress Islamic black niqab which I can't dress it and if I do it will be a fast ticket to death

I hide my hair and my femininity all the time but people still harass me and throw things at me
I NEVER go out alone
Even my own family harassing me on daily basis

I can pass as woman because a lot of time people call me miss lady etc but even so it's dangerous to go out without the Islamic black niqab

Most of the time I say I'm not Arab etc so they don't call the police after me




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Hi Rose,

Be careful and be safe! I hope you can leave there soon as no one should have a death sentence hanging over their head cause of who they are!

Hugs Riki

It's coming up on 8 years for me on feminizing doses of HRT. In the prior decades I was on/low dose for the emotional relief, or Brain-Reset. I also spent part of those 8 years living part-time as female. Today I live and present primarily as male.

Hiding the girls is not a problem. Being a former fatty I always wear baggy clothes (guy mode only  ;D ) A few times my wife might make a comment along the lines of "You should change your top, your tits are showing" So on goes the even baggier tee-shirt

Life's current circumstances dictate me not socially transitioning. Between the big financial risk and my wife's declining health, I cannot take the chance of a full transition. I count myself among the fortunate few that do not NEED to transition. Least not most days I feel I don't need to. So I do my best to balance all the important aspects of my life

It is possible, and often done.  Many people start and progress through years of HRT without changing too much about how they present.

As I do not look at transitioning as an all or nothing proposition, I am would say that in more than a few areas I have not socially transitioned in a lot of peoples estimations.  I wear jeans and tshirts 90% of the time when not in my work uniform.  I do not wear dresses or skirts except around the house and rarely wear any mentionable makeup.  I guess really, it depends on how you define social transition.  Even with my legal name and gender change, my presentation is all to often androgynous.

I have a friend who has been on HRT for about 5 years and she has not made any attempt to socially present herself in a feminine manner.

I am starting anti-androgens and HRT in the next few weeks and I will not be transitioning in work until FFS and breast augmentation likely late in this year, beginning of next. I have a number of work responsibilities that make it necessary to come out at a time when I can pass without interference with clients.

So I intend to be on HRT for several months and quite possibly a year plus before fully socially transitioning, but it will be very much: I'm off for surgery now and when I return I will be female.

 I'm at the other end of the spectrum on this. I transitioned six months socially before starting HRT or electrolysis, it was not because of some RLE requirement it is what I had to do to save myself from myself.   I was in my mid 50's 385 lbs and just waiting to die, when one of my older brothers died of an aneurysm it really got me thinking about my life or lack of one. Now 4 years later I am 185 lbs and living on the outside how I have always felt on the inside. I gave up a lot to do this but I have gained much more in return.

Stephie   

I don't know how this works. I  started HRT 46 months ago and haven't been able to pass as a man in years. I'm 30ish and stuff, but this is simply not possible for me. It's great and all but I hope I made the right choice cause I can barely recall how to act "manly" and I also date and make love to men. I will have SRS this year. So I'll finally cut the cOrd on my old life once and for all. I do understand the need or desire to not socially transition, but part of me wonders why take HRT if the goal isn't to present female at some point. I'm young though, so yeah. Not 25, but not 35 either. No judgement just inquiring whether some will transition fully in the future? I understand family obligations though and kids, neither of which I have sI that mmakes it easier for me along with not hsaving a cchoice.

The reason for HRT, regardless of what comes after, is to unscrew and unstress the mind to be relaxed and happy.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

This thread is great. It's a whole different perspective on transitioning. I'm going through a huge moment of confusion, anger, sadness, denial, etc...After starting HRT for 2 months, losing a relationship and going from being super convinced I wanted to transition to absolutely regretting it.

Some people, including my therapist, told me that maybe I needed to get in touch with my feminine side (for example crossdressing or doing more feminine things at home) before starting HRT just so I could see how I felt. I didn't do that, and it didn't really make much sense to me, if anything crossdressing would make me look like a man in a dress and make me feel worse. It's nice to know that there are people like you who started HRT and for whatever reason chose to remain as males and slowly made changes. I feel this is a good approach and might work for me as well.

My choice is to remain "male" outside of home.  Every person has their own path and destination.  I believe that no path or destination is better than another. 

My reasons for HRT and SRS are for my fulfillment and therefore I don't feel that telling my children is necessary.  But that's my choice and no more right or wrong than anyone else.  My Wife supports and embraces transition.  I have no desire to change my sexual orientation but, again, my choice.

I hope I helped your decision.
Desire

I plan on a slow transition. My career is very male oriented, but I love it. I make a decent living and plan on funding the transition with it. Once I make it to FFS I will possibly change jobs in the same field. Depending on how things go.

I have yet to start HRT. My wife just found out about who I really am. We are still working through what that means. As I type this I am sitting, waiting for her to come home as see me dressed as me for the first time.

I use to think why people would want to do that , but after being on HRT going on 4 years I still do both modes.

Quote from: Deborah on January 08, 2017, 04:27:25 PM
The reason for HRT, regardless of what comes after, is to unscrew and unstress the mind to be relaxed and happy.

So True, and I think this is exactly Why I started.

Quote from: Desire on September 08, 2017, 08:46:58 PM
My choice is to remain "male" outside of home.  Every person has their own path and destination.  I believe that no path or destination is better than another. 

My reasons for HRT and SRS are for my fulfillment and therefore I don't feel that telling my children is necessary.  But that's my choice and no more right or wrong than anyone else.  My Wife supports and embraces transition.  I have no desire to change my sexual orientation but, again, my choice.

I hope I helped your decision.
Desire

So you still present male, but had SRS?  I'd be lying, if I never thought of that possibility...

I was on hrt for a year before I transitioned.  I did it because I had my last year of highschool to finish and I didn't want to come out to the whole school.

I did the exact opposite, I transitioned socially for a couple years, then sought out the medical side.

Hugs, Devlyn

Hi Winterkat, don't sweat this!  There's no way I can suggest what someone else should do in detail, but here's how it has worked for me.  It's been about two years now and I'm working on getting all the ducks in a row for surgery in Feb. of 18.  My biggest concern is how I feel about myself, not how someone else sees me.  For me that means most of my maleness, physically, has served it's purpose and needs to be set free.  When I look at my body I want to see a female form and I'll be pretty content.  Over time I have recognized that I'm not binary.  I never fully played by the male playbook and I have no intention of playing by the female one either.  My understanding is that by definition, gender dysphoria is an issue with how we see our own body relative to how we feel mentally.  I have never heard of how society sees you as being part of that problem. 
Many people want to belong to one playbook or the other, and that's fine, but more and more we're hearing about the many who don't feel the need to occupy an "either/or" scenario and I'm one of those.  I will physically transition because I want to see that body, but I sometimes go out dressed Femme and sometimes go out Butch.  My friends see my boobs growing and my clear painted fingernails and long hair and I'm sure they may be thinking all kinds of things, but most are afraid to ask.  I help a lot of people around here and it has actually given me a kind of insulation, people don't look at me superficially anymore because they have been forced to think of me more broadly and that's a really good thing.  I want to keep my male history because it's very valuable and my "transition", in so far as it goes, simply adds a whole additional level to who I am.  Nothing (much) is lost, and a great deal is gained.  There are several very good books to read and I suspect they'll help a bunch as you learn more about who you are and what is important to YOU on this journey.  Read, Gender Outlaw by Kate Bornstein, Born Both by Hida Valoria and The Fate of Gender, I don't remember the author.  Getting in touch with your inner self is most important, as it's really what this is all about.  All of us here are the same in many ways and very different in others.  Enlightment is about universal acceptance and love.  That should be the goal of us all and it starts with loving yourself, who you really are, regardless of what someone else looking at you sees.  Getting outted is mostly funny as far as I'm concerned, passing can be fun and feels good, but it's not required for you to be a person deserving of respect and consideration.  Choose you own paths as you evolve and be true to yourself and you will make no wrong turns.  Hugs, Toni   

I have been on a low dose for over four years now still male socially but enough changes have occur some clothes do not fit well womens jeans fit me a lot better than male pants and I have to wear baggy shirts I have loss a lot of my muscle mass especially in the shoulders and chest overall I have gotten a lot smaller over the last 4 years I started at 5'9" 205 lbs to now still 5' 9" but 145 lbs.  But I cannot transition because I have excellent paying job that I will lose if I do transition socially this job will enable to pay for everything.  I am good with doing this way since everything was so gradual nobody has put it together sometimes strangers or salesperson will misgender me and those are the really great days

Wow, glad this post got brought up again.

What exactly pushes someone to socially transition?  I personally haven't done so yet even though I've been on hrt for over 2 years and had ffs.  I think I pass since I still present male (shortish hair, male clothing, no makeup) but get gendered female until I talk.

I'm not sure what it is but I don't think I will ever socially transition since I only see male traits (will always see them)

I've seen quite a few trans women that have socially transitioned when they don't pass and I feel horrible for thinking that I don't want to be like that but at the same time wishing that I just stopped caring about what total strangers thought of me.

I have 3 more cosmetic procedures planned, nothing as intensive as ffs but even if I pass completely, I think social transition will happen only when I actually stop critiquing every little thing about my body. (lol, so probably never)

I have thought about doing this. I think I can deal with hiding breasts. Then let hrt do it's work and then transition or not. Perhaps low dose hrt would be the only thing I need.

Quote from: Justarandomname on September 11, 2017, 03:16:44 AM

What exactly pushes someone to socially transition?  I personally haven't done so yet even though I've been on hrt for over 2 years and had ffs.  I think I pass since I still present male (shortish hair, male clothing, no makeup) but get gendered female until I talk.

I'm not sure what it is but I don't think I will ever socially transition since I only see male traits (will always see them)

I've seen quite a few trans women that have socially transitioned when they don't pass and I feel horrible for thinking that I don't want to be like that but at the same time wishing that I just stopped caring about what total strangers thought of me.

I have 3 more cosmetic procedures planned, nothing as intensive as ffs but even if I pass completely, I think social transition will happen only when I actually stop critiquing every little thing about my body. (lol, so probably never)

Everyone is different. For some (possibly yourself from what you describe) blending in is very very important, for others it is not. I transitioned socially fairly quickly. Even though i was a feminine leaning person presenting as male or androgynous most of my life, it was still for me a big change. I did it because i had very specific and acute dysphoria from not socializing as a woman.

So regardless of my looks, good or bad it was full speed ahead. With that transition came affirmation from others, new groups of friends etc - just what i was needing.

The women that you describe that " don't pass " may not care or other things may be more important for them. With all respect, we should not project our motivations on others. We are wonderfully all different :) I probably get clocked 20% of the time still, but i would have transitioned if it was flipped and 80% or more.

We often are our worst critics and everyone has to choose their journey in a way that works for them.

Quote from: RobynD on September 11, 2017, 06:11:08 PM
Everyone is different. For some (possibly yourself from what you describe) blending in is very very important, for others it is not. I transitioned socially fairly quickly. Even though i was a feminine leaning person presenting as male or androgynous most of my life, it was still for me a big change. I did it because i had very specific and acute dysphoria from not socializing as a woman.

So regardless of my looks, good or bad it was full speed ahead. With that transition came affirmation from others, new groups of friends etc - just what i was needing.

The women that you describe that " don't pass " may not care or other things may be more important for them. With all respect, we should not project our motivations on others. We are wonderfully all different :) I probably get clocked 20% of the time still, but i would have transitioned if it was flipped and 80% or more.

We often are our worst critics and everyone has to choose their journey in a way that works for them.

Thank you, very well put.  I apologize if I seemed as though I was trying to "project my motivations" unto others, it's more that I feel that I am still trying to figure things out, even after all these years and I feel guilty for how I perceive others which is an extension of how I really feel about myself.

Anyway, passing is important to me because I hate being noticed and would just like to be invisible in public.  I've always been a very shy and introverted person, even when random strangers struck up a conversation with me, I would end it as quickly as possible. I hate being noticed, looked at or checked out.  Recently, I've had women start conversations with me out of the blue while I'm shopping or men looking at me like they've never seen a Asian person before, it irritates me so much.

Quote from: RobynD on September 11, 2017, 06:11:08 PM

Quote from: Justarandomname on September 11, 2017, 03:16:44 AM

What exactly pushes someone to socially transition?  I personally haven't done so yet even though I've been on hrt for over 2 years and had ffs.  I think I pass since I still present male (shortish hair, male clothing, no makeup) but get gendered female until I talk.

I'm not sure what it is but I don't think I will ever socially transition since I only see male traits (will always see them)

I've seen quite a few trans women that have socially transitioned when they don't pass and I feel horrible for thinking that I don't want to be like that but at the same time wishing that I just stopped caring about what total strangers thought of me.

I have 3 more cosmetic procedures planned, nothing as intensive as ffs but even if I pass completely, I think social transition will happen only when I actually stop critiquing every little thing about my body. (lol, so probably never)

Everyone is different. For some (possibly yourself from what you describe) blending in is very very important, for others it is not. I transitioned socially fairly quickly. Even though i was a feminine leaning person presenting as male or androgynous most of my life, it was still for me a big change. I did it because i had very specific and acute dysphoria from not socializing as a woman.

So regardless of my looks, good or bad it was full speed ahead. With that transition came affirmation from others, new groups of friends etc - just what i was needing.

The women that you describe that " don't pass " may not care or other things may be more important for them. With all respect, we should not project our motivations on others. We are wonderfully all different :) I probably get clocked 20% of the time still, but i would have transitioned if it was flipped and 80% or more.

We often are our worst critics and everyone has to choose their journey in a way that works for them.

Makes me wonder if people think I'm trying to pass as a woman and failing, or if they just see me as I truly am, a blend of male and female. Just because someone is in a dress doesn't make them a woman.

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Justarandomname on September 11, 2017, 03:16:44 AM
Wow, glad this post got brought up again.

What exactly pushes someone to socially transition?  I personally haven't done so yet even though I've been on hrt for over 2 years and had ffs.  I think I pass since I still present male (shortish hair, male clothing, no makeup) but get gendered female until I talk.

I'm not sure what it is but I don't think I will ever socially transition since I only see male traits (will always see them)

I've seen quite a few trans women that have socially transitioned when they don't pass and I feel horrible for thinking that I don't want to be like that but at the same time wishing that I just stopped caring about what total strangers thought of me.

I have 3 more cosmetic procedures planned, nothing as intensive as ffs but even if I pass completely, I think social transition will happen only when I actually stop critiquing every little thing about my body. (lol, so probably never)

The thing that pushes you to socially transition is what you have so far isn't enough. Hormones weren't cutting it and I was still pretty depressed. If you would like to socially transition, start doing part time. The most difficult time is the first few times you walk through that door and realize that nobody cares about what you are doing. In addition, you start becoming so comfortable in public that you no longer care what people think about you. 

I saw the image you posted and you are ready. If you want help with your voice, wander over the to voice forum and we will help you with that. As for walking out the door, you have to make up your mind that it's time.

Quote from: Justarandomname on September 11, 2017, 06:38:00 PM
Thank you, very well put.  I apologize if I seemed as though I was trying to "project my motivations" unto others, it's more that I feel that I am still trying to figure things out, even after all these years and I feel guilty for how I perceive others which is an extension of how I really feel about myself.

Anyway, passing is important to me because I hate being noticed and would just like to be invisible in public.  I've always been a very shy and introverted person, even when random strangers struck up a conversation with me, I would end it as quickly as possible. I hate being noticed, looked at or checked out.  Recently, I've had women start conversations with me out of the blue while I'm shopping or men looking at me like they've never seen a Asian person before, it irritates me so much.

Totally get it. There is an interesting psychology/sociology thing in all of this. I'm an extrovert and always disliked being invisible as it were, and i think i have pretty much done away with that. Still, there are times when i want to blend in, so i get that too. i find that women are very talkative to me after transition. Strangers everywhere. In the bathroom yesterday for instance. There certainly is a sort of sisterhood there.

I have been on hormones for about 3 years.   I have not socially transitioned at all.  I still present as male.  My reason is that I don't feel that I pass well enough.  If I could pass 90% of the time I would socially transition in a heartbeat,

I was always worried about being nonpassable, but a funny thing has happened in the recent past.  I went through a long period where I drew stares when I went out in female presentation.  However, over the past three months or so, things have changed.  Now, when I go out in female presentation, no one stares or notices. 

On the other hand, I seem to be drawing stares when I go out in male presentation.  And a few weeks ago, I picked up the ultimate male fail.  My wife dragged me to the nail parlor to get my eyebrows waxed, but insisted that I go in male presentation because they knew the male me there, but not well.  (I went kind of mixed, actually -- women's straight leg jeans because the men's jeans don't fit any more, men's T shirt and Coach men's shoulder bag).  I got gendered female the minute I walked in the front door.

Then there was the incident where a neighbor came up my driveway with a misdelivered package when I was on my way to group in full girl mode, and she literally did not recognize me, even though we have known each other for 17 years.

So, after a year and three months on hormones, I kind of don't pass for male any more. 

I wasn't really planning on this.  I figured the hormones would not do all that much since I am 54. 

So now I pretty much have to finish my social transition.  But I cannot say that I am unhappy about it.  I love being a woman.

Quote from: Dena on September 11, 2017, 06:47:04 PM
I saw the image you posted and you are ready. If you want help with your voice, wander over the to voice forum and we will help you with that. As for walking out the door, you have to make up your mind that it's time.

Thank you, I'll definitely check the voice forum out!  lol, walking out the door is the worst part I think.

Quote from: RobynD on September 11, 2017, 06:50:21 PM
Totally get it. There is an interesting psychology/sociology thing in all of this. I'm an extrovert and always disliked being invisible as it were, and i think i have pretty much done away with that. Still, there are times when i want to blend in, so i get that too. i find that women are very talkative to me after transition. Strangers everywhere. In the bathroom yesterday for instance. There certainly is a sort of sisterhood there.

Since you mentioned psychology and sociology, I don't know if you've read anything from Dr. Anne Vitale but I highly recommend reading some of her excerpts from her book.  Here http://www.avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm (http://www.avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm), she talks about the 3 different types of transgender individuals and their experiences from childhood to adulthood including her studies on how each group reacts to different stimuli and stigma from external and internal sources that can hamper transition.

Quote from: Danielle M on September 11, 2017, 07:36:06 PM
I have been on hormones for about 3 years.   I have not socially transitioned at all.  I still present as male.  My reason is that I don't feel that I pass well enough.  If I could pass 90% of the time I would socially transition in a heartbeat,

May I ask what would let you know that you pass or not pass most of the time?  I've been on hrt for a little over 2 years myself and still have no idea if I pass or not.  I look in the mirror and only see my pre-transition self in the mirror so I can't say.  I'm wondering if you are experiencing the same thing.

I've been doing HRT since last December. You might say I am in the middle of my transition. Four years ago I came out to my partner (she's very supportive). A couple years ago, I had this idea, or plan, that I would come out to everyone and transition yadda yadda ~ happily ever after. It wasn't that simple. I had been growing the hair out for some time, gave up on beards and lot's of other guy things - really, gave up on trying to be a guy-guy. I began buying and wearing only women's clothing that are androgynous - jeans, large tops etc. But not overtly femme. No make up. I could probably even pass at 100 yards. I started with my first therapist - who helped tremendously. I've been seeing my current therapist for 2 years - and she's helped me even more. I was getting ready. Then last November happened. Our society took that hard right turn while I took up HRT. So now I've throttled back the plan to a lower speed. I feel both better and worse at the same time. The longing for acceptance and validation in society is stronger than ever. The HRT, however, combined with the therapy makes the days not just bearable, but good most of the time. If I'm down, I feel my small breasts through my sweatshirt and remember who I really am. My therapist says I present "soft-male". I'm going to look into getting laser treatments this fall. To paraphrase my partner, she says it's only a matter of time and timing. It could be a while but I'm still moving forward.

Quote from: laurenb on September 12, 2017, 07:19:50 AM
I was getting ready. Then last November happened. Our society took that hard right turn while I took up HRT. So now I've throttled back the plan to a lower speed.

Hey Lauren, at the risk of sounding ignorant, what exactly happened? What are you talking about?

Edit: Nevermind! I got it :)

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on September 12, 2017, 10:56:01 AM
Hey Lauren, at the risk of sounding ignorant, what exactly happened? What are you talking about?

Edit: Nevermind! I got it :)

I may be wrong, but I think this is interference to the US presidential Election.

On a different note, this is an interesting topic. I have considered at least a low dose HRT because I am not ready to transition due to my personal situation, namely a good salary.  My wife knows and is supportive and is even seeking her own help through counseling so I may move forward but like others I just want to quiet the trans beast in my head so I can concentrate on life. Perhaps Low Dose HRT will let me do that.
Paula

I think, Paula, you'll find out rather quick if HRT is a fit for you. I started a low dose and moved to bit higher dose but not anywhere near a full dose. I found I needed to be patient and give it time to work. But if it doesn't feel right, you can put it down.

My partner and I both see the same therapist. She knows us both now. It really works for us. Your wife should definitely seek some support from someone who can give her tools to help work through things. Ours doesn't sugar coat but she also is positive and practical. Here's an ironic upside to being Trans: I started seeing our therapist because I had dysphoria. We now talk about stuff in my life that has nothing to do with that - in other words, there were other things going on besides being trans. And we're unpacking all that and working on it. I now understand myself far better than I did before.

Quote from: laurenb on September 12, 2017, 09:59:47 PM
Here's an ironic upside to being Trans: I started seeing our therapist because I had dysphoria. We now talk about stuff in my life that has nothing to do with that - in other words, there were other things going on besides being trans. And we're unpacking all that and working on it. I now understand myself far better than I did before.

I understand this completely!  I have been going to mine for a little over a year and I'd say we only discuss being trans about 60% of the time.  It is good to just vent to someone and not be judged or anything. Plus she and I are alike in many ways that I could easily see us being friends were not not for our professional relationship. That makes it a lot easier to open up to her and discuss things in a wholostice manner.
Paula

Quote from: Myranda on September 09, 2017, 08:13:04 AM
So you still present male, but had SRS?  I'd be lying, if I never thought of that possibility...

My reply to the social transitioning was quoted and above is a member's reply.  I've come back and reread so many times and tried to accept a different members views.

I can't accept this members post.  Transitioning is a personal choice and as long as the person is competent, aware and has free will then we all should support each person.  My journey and reasons are mine, as well as every other person has theirs.  I may not have the same wishes but I do support each person.

All my best
Desire

Quote from: Desire on September 17, 2017, 12:05:10 AM

Quote from: Myranda on September 09, 2017, 08:13:04 AM
So you still present male, but had SRS?  I'd be lying, if I never thought of that possibility...

My reply to the social transitioning was quoted and above is a member's reply.  I've come back and reread so many times and tried to accept a different members views.

I can't accept this members post.  Transitioning is a personal choice and as long as the person is competent, aware and has free will then we all should support each person.  My journey and reasons are mine, as well as every other person has theirs.  I may not have the same wishes but I do support each person.

All my best
Desire

We all walk our own path and each path is valid. Or as a therapist said to said to me. There are many paths to Rome and there are many Romes.

I think people may be surprised on how many people are in the same category that I know of on the Forum and also in life.

On this Forum we accept all and that is the end of the matter.

Cindy

I love to read the variety of people's experiences and motivations,  all valid.
Trying get an answer out my therapist is (as with most) nigh on impossible,  they deflect or reflect questions as an art form! But on one occasion,  just before going full-time,  I commented that if it didn't work for me,  I could always go back to part-time,  but even that didn't really feel like a true possibility,  she just smiled and agreed [emoji4]; and this before HRT.
It's been a bumpy road for my kids learning to understand,  but aside the pressure of that,  I have not once even considered detransition,  even part-time for me would be intolerable. But that's just me...

Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk

Yes, I was on HRT for 1 year 11 months before beginning living "full time". I knew it was time by then, my life was telling me I was ready.... never looked back after that....

good topic here, interesting to read other's experiences.

C -

Lots of great advice and personal stories that give me hope.  I plan to hold out on social transition until it becomes just too obvious and I must.  I appreciate all that each of you have shared.

Best regards,

Bea

What a fantastic topic.

I am going on 5 months of HRT, and the first couple of months were low dosage to see if both me and my body could adopt.  For the past few months, I am on what most would consider a "regular" dose of Estrogen and Prog.

About a year ago, I found a salon that I was comfortable at, and as I got to know the owner, started to discuss some of my wants like waxing, hair styles, makeup.  She was and is so great that she actually showed me how to do moisturizing, makeup and nails.  I got more of an androgynous hair style and it's been like a whirlwind since.

I started wearing leggings to the gym, along with women's tops.  I got some looks, but, nothing horrible.  I scheduled an appt with therapy and within 2 sessions, she said she would provide me a letter.  I found my Endo, and off I went. 

Fast forward to today, and after a few months of full strength, I am developing breasts, my skin has gotten noticeable softer, and I just love the difference in my brain functions.  I started with laser 2 months ago, and that is going extremely well.  Yes, the facial part of laser hurts. lol

My wife is not thrilled, but, we are talking through it.  Our children are older, and I have no need to really explain to them what I am doing. I am sure that as I continue my journey, there will be questions.  The more accurate way I can think of my transition is I am "me".  Nothing more, nothing less.  I have had mail fails in the past month, which is nice, and I can pull off both male and female right now, but, I am sure it will get more difficult the longer I am on HRT.  I don't know what the future holds, I don't know if I will ever fully transition, but, I know today, I feel more like myself than I have ever felt.  Oh, and I cannot tolerate my nails not being manicured. :)

bobbie