Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I know this is a question thats been posed (and answered) by many different websites, usually written by well-known authors in our community, but I wanted to try and get a different perspective on this topic.

You may think it odd of me to ask such a question ??? (considering my first-ever visit to a gender therapist will be next Friday) but this does indeed affect how I'll view transition and life after SRS.

So, without further adue, here's my question: Why do we have to tell anyone (our lovers, employer, etc.) of our SRS? After SRS, we'll be a woman [or man!] in every sense of the word and no one will be the wiser - as such, why would we want to or possess the need to, inform anyone? What risks are there in not disclosing our past? What risks are there in doing so?

written from an MtF point of view, somebody else will have to present the FtM take on this problem, sorry.

well, apart from the problem of being inadequately socialised as women, which means we shed clues like dandruff, we lack childhoods as women, and most of us transitioned after puberty, which means that we are not convincing when GGs get together and make light chit-chat about their first date, their first menses, learning about men, and so on.

with men we have no formal history to refer to, and our responses are not typical, which can be dangerous, especially if we run into people we knew before transition who recognise us.

then we have to recognise that we no longer are considered first class citizens, and women are often treated like ->-bleeped-<-, which few of us can buy into, and impels many of us to examine feminist thought, perhaps less sceptically than before, when we recognise that the binary Gender Roles (that this society insists upon) are rubbish, and this makes us insist on fair treatment and equal opportunity, as is appropriate in a democracy.

finally, darling, our sad lives, transition, and new joys are something we need to share, and while it is good to talk in places like this, to our peers, eventually we need to hold our heads up with dignity and pride, and our maternal instincts impel us to help our younger colleagues, whether younger in age or maturity, as others have helped us, and to try to make the world a safer, kinder place for everyone.

XXX OOO

I really can't comment on why not to tell as I've long ago decided to tell.

I am me.
This includes my past, my present and my future.

I want to know up front if someone can deal with me, being ... ME.

I'm not a fan of deception, and I am not fond of hiding secrets.

I prefer to be honest and open... and if that gets me killed, well that works too.



Kitten mentioned responses not being typical.. Mine never have been. I have always been the odd one out and am stinking proud of that. I am NOT normal nor have I ever had a desire to be. In this vein were I a gg I'd been that odd hen no one can quite understand. Frankly I don't think it will be any different, save they will peg me in the TG category and attribute my strangeness to that. They are wrong but such as it goes.

I often hear how life is so much easier for a man. I don't see this. I never have. I've always had to prove I was capable, it was never assumed. *snicker* when it was assumed they've been wrong anyway. Although it is possible I've been blind; I really don't think so.  In this vein I don't think life will be any different for me, stealth or not.

First I'll say, i hope we are all so fortunate that are appearance will not tell our story before we have a chance to.

If we have a need from inside to tell, then we should share and not keep it secret. Most of us know how damaging that can be.

Everyone does not need to know. If we tell every person we chat with for 5 min on the bus, then all of our conversations and experiences will be about TS/SRS topics and we will not truly experience living in our gender. People we see on a daily basis should eventually know if they matter to us at all.

When we become close friends i do think it is necessary to tell. It is because people consider hiding this information a betrayal. So not disclosing risks losing friends.

I believe anyone we date should know. It should not be this way, but our existance disturbs some to the point of violence. I do not think it is wise to be in a dating situation, even pre intimate with someone who does not know. I wouldnt want to date anyone who could not accept what i have been thru, so it would not be limiting in any way.

One point i would make is, i dont think this has anything to do with SRS, it has to do with the ability to look and act in ways people accept as being female (male). Whether or not you have had SRS is no ones business except those that will be actually interacting with the parts affected IMO.


beth

Quote from: Rose Dawson on June 04, 2005, 06:14:43 AM


  Why do we have to tell anyone (our lovers, employer, etc.) of our SRS? After SRS, we'll be a woman [or man!] in every sense of the word and no one will be the wiser - as such, why would we want to or possess the need to, inform anyone? What risks are there in not disclosing our past? What risks are there in doing so?

You don't have to divulge any surgery although at times it may be beneficial.  An example is the infamous bathroom issue.  If there is a problem with using the appropiate facilities. and your employer knows, having the correct genetalia may alleviate some of the issues that peeps have.

On many employment applications there is a line for previous names used.  This has to be completed truthfully.  If not then it can be a cause later for dismissal, justified by lying on the form.

One thing that can be done to help with this is to send by registered mail a copy of your court ordered name change to your previous employers.  This alone is usually enough to have your records changed to reflect the correct name.  My name is now on records that go back to 1985.  Few employers will go back that far.

If a person is pre and dating, there will always be the chance of abuse and violence even if the details are known.  It appears to me that violence is confined to men reacting to a pre woman even if her physical status is known.  Moreso if it comes as a suprise in a more intimate moment.  I have not heard of that happening with another woman. They would most likely cut you to pieces with their tongue.

If I plan to date someone I have no choice but to be honest.  The womens community here is so interconnected that everyone knows someone else who knows you or has dated someone that you have dated.  I would not have my past disclosed and put her in a potentially embarassing spot.  I replied to a personals ad in a local W4W list.  We wrote back and forth, met for coffee and went to a movie.  The funny thing is that we have known each other for about 2 years, drank beer together, played pool and never connected on a personal level.  After we went out I wrote her that night explaining what has happend so that she could make a choice wether to continue or not.  this is a censored version of her reply

QuoteI honestly did not know that you were M2F, but it makes no impact on me. You're a sweet gal

What was has no relationship to what is.

Leigh

As an FTM and knowing the current state of surgery, I would have to tell anyone I dated, so that's not an issue.

In the larger picture, though, I just don't like anyone having anything they can hold over me. I feel like if I have a secret, I give people power over me, power to discover it and put me in an awkward spot, or power to disclose it when it's not under my control.

I don't see announcing that I'm FTM when I go and buy milk at the corner store, but being casual and open about it in general seems much easier to me. I have enough trouble editing myself for social propriety, I can't imagine adding to that burden by having to edit everything I said to disguise the fact that I grew up as a girl and spent much of my adult life in a female body.

Dennis

I am an informed consent type person. I believe if you date more than once you should tell the person. Especially before you become intimate. Not just about having had srs surgery before that. If you know you are a TS then you should tell them about you. They have the right to know and you have the responsiblity to tell them. Yes they might leave but then again it might make no difference. If it does then they are probally not the kind of person you would want in your life anyway.

Donna Rose has some thoughts on "Stealth (http://www.donnarose.com/Stealth.htm)." And more (http://www.donnarose.com/thoughts.html).

I don't care if another TS is stealth or not, but when friends I have, feel that they are helping by letting everyone know that I'm TS, it really pisses rubs me the wrong way.


Sandi (http://vista.powerblog.com)

Quote from: Sandi on June 04, 2005, 03:06:19 PMBut when friends I have, feel that they are helping by letting everyone know that I'm TS

No that is wrong you should be the one to tell anyone if you are TS or not. But at the same time you shouldn't hide it either. I am not saying you do mind you.

I don't hide it, but I'm perfectly happy that most assume I'm female. If I get read that's life, but I will never go out of my way to let anyone know (good reasons excepted) that I'm TS.


Sandi (http://vista.powerblog.com)

Quote from: Sandi on June 04, 2005, 04:40:08 PM
If I get read that's life, but I will never go out of my way to let anyone know (good reasons excepted) that I'm TS.

Everyone has a lot of good thoughts and view points, all of which are equally valid. However, I tend to feel the same way Sandi does: I'm not going to go out of my way to expose my past - IMO, it's none of anyone's business who I am or who I was, until I make it such.

Quote from: kitten on June 04, 2005, 06:53:48 AMwe lack childhoods as women, and most of us transitioned after puberty, which means that we are not convincing when GGs get together and make light chit-chat about their first date, their first menses, learning about men, and so on.

This is very true, Kitten. By not disclosing who we are, we may find it very difficult to socialize as women and in the long run, may cause even more problems for ourselves by engaging in conversation we have no first-hand experience of.

Quote from: Susan on June 04, 2005, 02:27:08 PM
I believe if you date more than once you should tell the person. Especially before you become intimate. Not just about having had srs surgery before that. If you know you are a TS then you should tell them about you. They have the right to know and you have the responsiblity to tell them.

Susan, I understand your view point entirely but if we have all the right "parts" as a woman, act like a woman, essentially erased our history as a man (and as Beth said: i hope we are all so fortunate that are appearance will not tell our story before we have a chance to  :) then, wherein lies the necessity to disclose ourselves?

Finally, when it comes to others disclosing the fact that your TS, without your consent, I find this just tactless and vicious. As some of you may have read from my other postings, I recently just told my family that I'm TS. At the time, my mom had very kind and accepting words. Since then, I've found out that she's told the rest of my family, before I even had the chance. How thoughtful of her  :icon_rolleyes2:

Quote

QuoteQuote from: kitten on Today at 06:53:48 AM
we lack childhoods as women, and most of us transitioned after puberty, which means that we are not convincing when GGs get together and make light chit-chat about their first date, their first menses, learning about men, and so on.

QuoteThis is very true, Kitten. By not disclosing who we are, we may find it very difficult to socialize as women and in the long run, may cause even more problems for ourselves by engaging in conversation we have no first-hand experience of.

Reminds me of one time going through the grocery checkout. There was no men in the line, and the checker and bagger (both quite young) were discussing how old they were when they developed. The lady behind me chimmed in with her age of bloom, then all eyes turned to me.

The unasked question was plain to see on there faces and I really felt the pressure to come up with an honest answer, but was hard pressed to say "In my fifties."   ::)  But I quickly recovered and my answer was "Oh I was a late bloomer," which was of course true, but was happy that they didn't push for just how late.


Sandi (http://vista.powerblog.com)

Quote from: Rose Dawson on June 04, 2005, 07:06:24 PM
Susan, I understand your view point entirely but if we have all the right "parts" as a woman, act like a woman, essentially erased our history as a man (and as Beth said: i hope we are all so fortunate that are appearance will not tell our story before we have a chance to  :) then, wherein lies the necessity to disclose ourselves?

No such thing as erasing your past. Are you going to sit there day in and day out with the fear of discovery, of someone who knew you before transition recognizing you. Of the hurt, betrayal, and rejection that someone you love could suffer because you didn't tell them. Are you going to risk physical violence from that same loved one if they have a strong enough reaction from discovering your history.  What would you tell them "I am sorry, but you had no right to know"? Come on get some sense girl.

Not telling causes another problem. If you are with someone for a period of time, omitting your past would not be the only thing, it would require many lies to replace the missing history. It is a slippery slope, suddenly the whole relationship is based on lies.

I'm not saying I favor one over the other (disclosing or never telling). I'm merely trying to gain a input from others, as they see the ramifications of both.

Quote from: Rose Dawson on June 05, 2005, 12:29:22 AM
I'm not saying I favor one over the other (disclosing or never telling). I'm merely trying to gain a input from others, as they see the ramifications of both.

Ok I read your message as advocation of the "Stealth" TS. My mistake. But I stand by my points.

Having lived a difficult and unhappy life trying to be male and hiding such an enormous secret most of my life, I have no intention of trading one prison for another.  I won't wear a badge that says I'm "T" but I won't hide it either. 

Cailyn  (fka Dawn)

Quote from: Sandi on June 04, 2005, 04:40:08 PM
I don't hide it, but I'm perfectly happy that most assume I'm female. If I get read that's life, but I will never go out of my way to let anyone know (good reasons excepted) that I'm TS.

Quote from: Cailyn on June 07, 2005, 05:34:30 AMI won't wear a badge that says I'm "T" but I won't hide it either.

In essence what I was trying to say but both put much more eloquent than I.

before srs, any time i get romantically involved with somebody in any way (ie. even passing snogs are included), i will take them aside before any of that kind of thing occurs, right from the start, and gently find out, away from earshot of others, if they have a problem with the way i am.  even if it's maybe obvious, i think it's still worth making a point of, because otherwise, in one important way, you are lying to them if you're inticing them romantically and there's a chance they're assuming that you've got the genital arrangement you don't have.

after srs, i am a woman.  i don't care if my childhood memories or automatically-dropped "hints" are atypical or not.  so are lots of other womens'.  if they got called a man, they'd slap you in the face, and so would i (well, verbally, anyway).  if the subjects of life experience do come up in casual conversation, then i'm not going to start making up lies, or awkwardly avoiding the truth either.  i'll just casually say what used to be what.  if my friends can't deal with that then that's their problem and they can get over it or get lost.

on the names form, yeah, i'd have to put my old name down.  i'd treat it as no big deal, just like it should be treated.  luckily for me, though, with my previous name being "james", i can put "jamie" and get away with it without anyone having any reason to call me a liar.  after all, that's what my mum called me. ;D  this is awkward for sure, and i could fully understand somebody with a less fortunate starter name considering different.  not that my starter name is particularly fortunate; it's just fortunate enough.

after srs, i won't consider myself transgendered in any way, and i will no longer be part of that community.  not unless i become a cross-dresser or something; but either way, i will no longer be part of the transsexual community.  but i'll still be bisexual, whatever, so i'll probably continue to frequent whatever LGBT group i might frequent leading up to the surge.

of course i would help other people out going through the things i would've gone through back then, but only if such advice-giving cropped up.  i would not be embarrassed by it but i would not volunteer the information, not even as an interesting thing to talk about with friends.  after i'm all well and good, i want to leave all this behind, just like some overlong bad dream.

people will probably "clock" me because of the size of my feet, whatever "stage" i'm at.  but then they'll just learn that some women have unusually big feet.  and that's not a lie, not even by the wide (and proper) definition of the word that i use = "a deliberate attempt at deception".  it's no deception, it's no excuse - it's true.

to say i was a woman who used to be a man is the thing that would be a lie, whether you talk about gender in terms of genital construction, brain sex, or whatever.  because with any of those definitions, i'm not "really a man", which is what stating "i used to be a man" would mean to vastly most people.  and that's not twisting meanings either, because whatever anyone says in any situation, it's not what you say that counts, but what it means to those listening.  where the twisting meanings occur is with the common misconception where a person would get the information in terms of genital construction, and then interpret it in terms of social gender, or brain sex, or whatever.  that's the misconstruition that occurs, and that's why stating that thing which is "paper-true", is lying.

in simpler terms, a person would take my initial genital construction to mean a male gender.  then that same person would take my later genital construction and instead of letting it mean, in exactly the same way, a female gender, they would ignore it, applying some kind of "time-stamp rule" that doesn't actually effectively exist.  but the illogy lies with the fact that the "masculine information" that they are basing this on is exactly the same as the "feminine information" that they are ignoring.

it's what i've found to be a basic false human instinct that often occurs, applicable in many situations outside of gender issues also, and that's to deny change, either in insisting it won't occur when it well could, or ignoring that it already has.

I said:  I won't wear a badge that says I'm "T" but I won't hide it either.

Actually, I am wearing a badge that says I'm "T".   Of course, I'm at the Chicago Be-all which has been a fun and interesting experience.  Here, the large number of t-girls, cd's, t-men, etc has left the str8s in the minority in the hotel.  Not many going stealth here.  I did meet one girl who insisted she wasn't trans but sure looked it.

Cailyn

For myself, I tell. I don't want to be put back into the closet again. This is what will happen, you will be afraid that someone will find out, so you are looking over your shoulder again. This is not what I want to do with my life. I have gone back to work as a female and have not hidden that I was once genical male. I get a lot of questions and I answer them honestly. There are people who just don't get it and they have a cross to burn. It is like that in anything us humans do. Not my problem, their problem.
Sheila

Actually another benefit to not being stealth (benefit more to the community than self) is it raises awareness.. The down side is we then must be good representatives, of course.

My past is my business, period.  Right now I am out and answering questions but it is getting old quickly.  In a few years I see myself moving and then quietly moving on in life.

Not telling causes another problem. If you are with someone for a period of time, omitting your past would not be the only thing, it would require many lies to replace the missing history. It is a slippery slope, suddenly the whole relationship is based on lies.


Beth makes an excellent point.  I can't imagine the energy and concentration that would be required to keep up a deception of this sort.  A true partnership cannot be based on a mountain of lies.

I find this query to be silly and non-sensical?

How many other women do you know that feel obliged to disclose any anatomical anomalies upon greeting another person?  Do you think that all women are born anatomically the same? You as a human, first and formost are not obiged to tell anyone a blessed thing. You are also obliged to respect the privacy rights of other people in a self-ascribed social gathering and to follow their rules if you are accepted into their midst.  PBR!  Please Be Respectful.

If, however you become intimate with someone, it is something that should come up with all of your other personal her-story. After all, why would you want to hide stuff from your friend/lover/partner, unless you were untrustworthy?

And......having GCS/SRS/FFS....whatever does not make you a woman, or a womyn.  Sex and gender are two different things, right?  Females are born, women are made, the saying goes. Only you know if you were born female or male.  Eventually, the truth will out anyways.

Behaviour, masculine or feminine is not etched in stone based on one's physical sex. People behave as they are.  But every woman I know can pick out someone trying to ACT feminine or masculine. If you have to ACT this way or that, you are not that thing. You are pretending to be that thing.  And onbody loves a liar. Well, except for codependent folx, but that is for another forum.

That is my two cents worth.

Thundra,

Can I rain on your parade today?

Being 'out' does not mean "Hi my name is Kim and I'm a Transsexual", rather "When was your last period?" "I haven't had to worry about that." "Oh, why is that?" "I'm transsexual" , etc.

I know lots of women that would answer that question, "when was your last period?" like this:  I don't have them, I've never had them, I don't have them anymore.  Oh, and many would include, and Boy am I glad!!!

Many, many women have no period, or inconsistent periods, and many more are post-menopausal, peri-menopasusal, or have had surgery to remove their uterus.

By choosing to call yourself transsexual, you have labelled yourself as different. I respect that choice, but it is your choice.  I too am different.  I am queer as hell, and kinky too.  That is my label. We all decide what label can or cannot be affixed to us. Silence is deference. To be silent in the face of opression is acceptance of oppression.  Choose your own label.  Choose wisely.

:icon_doh: I knew that was a poor example. :P

Regardless though, the premise is the same, being 'out' and open rather than being closed and evasive.

'transsexual' is a term that *they* can understand and simplifies telling them I'm a girl but was born with the wrong body and then having to explain that. Granted they probably won't put 'transsexual' under the proper heading and I'd have to explain anyway, but as I said above, being 'out' raises awareness.

Quote from: Thundra on June 24, 2005, 05:53:04 PM
I find this query to be silly and non-sensical?

How many other women do you know that feel obliged to disclose any anatomical anomalies upon greeting another person?  Do you think that all women are born anatomically the same? You as a human, first and formost are not obiged to tell anyone a blessed thing. You are also obliged to respect the privacy rights of other people in a self-ascribed social gathering and to follow their rules if you are accepted into their midst.  PBR!  Please Be Respectful.

No one ever suggested running around telling casual acquaintances. I only said you should tell someone you want to be romantically involved with before getting involved.

Well I agree that many girls like us have not been "raised" as women and therefore don't always understand the subilties of being female.  I don't feel it is necessary, or right, to tell everyone we meet that we are not genetic women.

We (those who are full time or post op) live as women and for us to fit in is of great importance.  We must "live" as women and not think of ourselves as anything less.

I will admit that in some areas I have problems, one, I never learned how to take care of long hair as a child, I didn't learn how to swish my hips as I walk, but I did learn how to cook, sew, knit and do other things that young girls learn as they grew.

I do understand that it would be important to tell any romantic interestes of my situation though.  It would not be fair to marry and not tell your future husband about yourself and anyway someone you feel that close to should be able to handle it.

Just my feelings. 

Sarah Louise Reiter

I used to have an account here w/ the name Theresa - but for some reason I can no longer login with that name - so I created a new account w/ the name "Webe."  Anyway, I know I don't check in very often, but here I am...

To tell or not to tell is such a personal question.  Before surgery I was very open about what was going on with me - I told anyone who cared to know.  In fact, I was involved in a group at school, where I would talk in front of various groups about what it was like to be "me."  It surprised me that anyone cared, or showed interest.

After surgery, I got tired of living that way.  I had just finished school, took the opportunity to move, and for the most part have refrained from talking about my gender issues.  I just wanted to live in my "new" life.  The frustrating thing for me has been when my "current" life inevitably collides with my past life...  It does happen - and I suspect it happens to everyone who leaves their hometown and starts a new life - not necessarily related to gender issues.  You can never go home, right?  Ironically, the biggest frustration doesn't come when people remember me as a different gender, but when people remember me for other reasons that I'm embarrased of.  Isn't that true of everyone, though?

The fact is, life is so much bigger than our gender issues.  I am very active at my church, I run a successful business, I absolutely love spending time with my Godchildren and friends.  I purposfully try to spend my life doing things without regard to any labels that people may give me.  I can honestly say that only a few people in my day-to-day life know about my gender issues.  Not because I think I pass particularly well, but because of my attitude - I like to believe that people see me as so much more than that - hopefully they think of me as a caring, loving, giving person before they ever think of me as a transsexual.

I hope that the decision about whether to live in "stealth" mode or not is minor, when compared to the other, more important decisions in your life.

I believe that if you focus on that one thing about you, others will too.  If you whow the world what you *really* care about - if you let those around you know the depth of your character, I believe that it won't matter whether you live in "stealth" or not.

That's just my $0.02 worth...  :-)

I'll step down from my soapbox now.

Peace, Hope, and Love,
Theresa

QuoteYou can never go home, right?  Ironically, the biggest frustration doesn't come when people remember me as a different gender, but when people remember me for other reasons that I'm embarrased of.  Isn't that true of everyone, though?

It's funny you should say that. I live in the same small town I grew up in. When I was 19 years old, I totalled my mother's car. A couple of years ago, I borrowed mum's car because mine was in the shop. I went to fill up with gas and the guy at the gas pumps said "hah! Your mother is letting you use her car after what you did to the last one?". Twenty one years later, he remembers that. Geez.

So for me, living stealth is so not an option :) But I do plan on just being a regular guy when I'm out of town.

Dennis

Theresa!

  It has been a long time.  Probably 3 years since you have posted here and since May of 2000 when we met.

  Leigh

Hi Leigh!

I'ts been a while; thanks Susan, for resetting my account - it's nice to be back.

I'll write a little about what's been happening in my life in another thread, under post-op life...

Cheers,
Theresa

Hi Rose

My personal feelings after one has SRS is to move on with their new life and forgot about their past life. Like you said, why do we have to tell anyone of our SRS? After SRS, we'll be a woman  in every sense of the word and no one will be the wiser - as such, why would we want to or possess the need to, inform anyone? What risks are there in not disclosing our past?

Right now I'm living in stealth due to work problems, but in due time I'll be coming out and I'll be so much happier!!!  :)

Gina

To tell or not to tell, well you do have to change your name, don't forget, so your employer will need up to date records of you, and your gender change will be reflected in the name change, so they will have to know..

Your driving licence tax records etc... will all have to reflect your new identity, so the Government have to know.

Next you will have to use the ladies, rather than the gents, which will make things rather obvious because you will have to do so at work as well, and if somebody who knows you sees you going into a public ladies toilet, at the very least they could think it rather odd, or they could 'out' you to everybody you know, either in your personal, or your working life.

'Oh look there's Terry, in a dress,' (laughs loudly), do you want to be a laughing stock, not that you won't be for some anyway.

So isn't it really better for people to know the truth about you, from your lips, because the truth is something that has it's own way of worming it's way out one way, or another.

That's a very good point there CJ. I didn't think of it from that point of view that when you do change genders that there is a lot of other little changes that must be made as well. Thanks for bringing them to my attention. :o

Gina

(My goodness! It has been so long since my last visit that I could find no trace of my last user name. Oh well, not the first time I have "started over"  ;D ::) )

I have found this thread very interesting as I have been considering the matter again.

I had SRS in 1974 - I'm a "Biber Girl" - in my early 20's. Prior to SRS, the psychological testing had placed me at 50/50 - could be either. Some people around my home town knew I was "strange" but I did a good job of passing as a male (most of the time) and lived a pretty "straight" life - small towns were not tollerent of "differences" in those days!

I made the transition and SRS in one great jump - from male in my home town to female in a new location - and made a complete break from the past. I looked the part (of my new identity) and was never suspected. I will admit that I was pretty wild in my early days (thank god it was before AIDS!) and having any guy I fancied did a lot for my crumpled sense of self (BAD home life, even without dealing with TSism!). In the early days, I took the attitude that it was nobody else's business, PERIOD! I was married (briefly) and chose not to share my background with my husband.  (The marriage ended after a year but it had nothing to do with my past.)

The only "problem" came up when a traveling salesman visited my employer's office, a salesman who had seen me in my home town years earlier, and asked someone in the office if I had a sister in my home town. They put two and two together and the story spread thru the office. (My employer was extraordinary and told people that if they had any problem with me, they could look for another job.)

About 10 years post-op, I had moved a number of times (career moves) and was living in a different part of the country when I became involved with a person I cared about. When the relationship turned serious, I chose to share my past with him. My choice to share was simply so that if anything happened and the past came back to haunt us, he would have heard it from me rather than someone else. He was very understanding and sympathetic (he was a really nice guy!).

About 8 years into that relationship, something DID happen! "A friend of a friend" (and I use the word "friend" with considerable venom!) was working in a medical facility in a nearby city and saw my medical file. When my so-called friend and I had a parting of the ways, she spread the story of my medical background far and wide.

Over the years post-op, I had slowly drifted into "being just me" with little consideration to what others thought and I became involved again in some of the not-typically-feminine things that I had enjoyed pre-op, so when the stories spread, I guss they were more believable.

I neither dispelled nor confirmed the stories that went around, although no one asked me directly. I lost a few "friends"  who were put off by the rumours.. There were a few co-workers who treated me differently, and there were a few very close friends that became even closer friends. Among those who continued to be my friends (without having the rumour confirmed or denied), I did detect a change in the way they interacted with me. Many were a little more aloof.

It has been almost 15 years since the rumours and I have been single again for the past 10 years. I would like to get out and "date" again but it's kind of tough, living in a rural area. I know that just about everybody heard the rumours and I know that the rumours could be a source of "hesitation" for many guys. I often wonder if "coming out" about my past would at least remove any uncertainty and maybe . . . maybe what? Now being in my mid-50s, I know that there are fewer available men and the ratio will continue to thin out the field, but it would be nice to have companionship.

The other thing I have considered about coming out is the "PR effect" for other TS people. I have been very high profile for many years and a lot of people sort of "look up" to me for my career and other achievements in the communitiy. To be able to say "Hey, I was born with the wrong body and I turned out ok, didn't I?"

I have never lied to anybody about my past (although I am very good at deflecting any inappropriate questions) but I have shared it only with a VERY few people. I have always felt that it is (usually) nobody else's business. On the other hand, it should not be something that needs to be hidden.

Maybe one day the world will be perfect and it will no longer be an issue  . . .

Hi Jane,

Let me start by saying welcome back to Susan's. A few months back there were some, shall we say, external software problems, which is probably responsible for your user name having been lost.

Your response to the question is very enlightning. I am pre-op and myself living in a small rural mountain tourist town. I came out here after having lived as my "other self" for some 7 months prior to going full time as my real self. I have had a great deal of acceptance and some not so good reactions. None violent or even vocal, thank the goddess. A lot of talk behind my back, or so I've heard but nothing malicious.

In a way I'm kind of glad because everyone knows yet they accept me as a woman and those who don't just keep their mouths shut. People see me on the street and greet me by my name and stop and engage me in conversation. I really love my town and the people in it. Of course this is not always the case with everyone. Many people live in small towns that are not as accepting as this one and for them living stealth may be a necessity.

My self I have never lived in the same place more than maybe 5 years or so before moving. Sometimes within the community sometimes in near poximity, sometimes clear to another state or across the country. As such I have more of an attitude of, if I don't like it someplace I just move. I'm used to it. It is how I was raised and it is as natural to me as walking. I say this because I cannot say to you emphatically yes come out and make a clean break of it in your community. I have no perspective to make that kind of call. I can only say that from my experience it has worked out better in the long run.

Cassie

This has been a very interesting thread...

My take, as a man who likes women... GG or TG.. is that you can't build any lasting relationship on less than honesty.

It really scares me that you have to worry about Violence being done to you over who you are... that is sooo wrong.

I also find it disturbing that many of you have to relocate to some place where you are unknown to start over because of lack of acceptance in your communities.

When things are rough and you're down.. you NEED the support of people you know and love.. I don't know about being TG, I'm not and won't patronize you by saying I fully understand... but I do understand needing a support system.

Anyway, back to the subject.. if they don't need to know, why complicate things... but if is someone who will mean something to you and your life.. yeah, they probably do

DennisInGA.. to make the distinction from the other Dennis LOL

QuoteWhen things are rough and you're down.. you NEED the support of people you know and love..

So so true Dennis as opposedto the other one ;D.

Shelley

Hi Dennis,

Wow! How unusual. You really get it. I don't see the point of stealth it's like denying who you are for so many uears to accept yourself transition and then deny who you are again. I have more to say but a guest just arrived so I will have to come back to this. Talk later.

Cassie

Cassie,

What are you saying, that it's I unusal I would get a post? LOL

Just teasing, but thanks for saying so.

Dennis In GA

Quote from: DennisInGA on November 21, 2005, 06:27:28 PMI also find it disturbing that many of you have to relocate to some place where you are unknown to start over because of lack of acceptance in your communities.

Every single person in my life (family, friends, neighbors, co-workers, bosses) accepts my choice to change genders 100%.  Having said that, I can still understand the desire to relocate and start over.  Every single person that knew me "before" still screws up my name & pronouns occassionally.  And when it happens in front of someone that didn't know me before, it really upsets me.  Also, people who knew me before just treat me differently.  They don't mean to, and it's not in a bad way.  Like I said, they all accept me 100%.  But I can't imagine that changing any time soon, and certainly never changing 100%.

I would most certainly NEVER cut off communications with my family.  Since I live in NYC, there's no need to relocate to another part of the country, but I know I will move neighborhoods at some point in the next year or two, purely so nobody will know me.  And I think about changing jobs all the time.  Or I imagine a time down the road when I suddenly realize that, besides my family, there's nobody that knew me "before".  That's a really nice thought.

Amy

Amy,

I can understand the starting over fresh somewhere new, really I can. Heck, I'm doing so myself for different reasons.

I just find it unacceptable that anyone would "have to" because of intolerance. That's all. It is just so unfair.

One of the great things I have found here is diversity... personally I'm loving it! I enjoy all the different opinions and viewpoints.

My heart goes out to anyone who has to transplant themselves because they are no longer accepted.

Dennis

Before SRS, I wrote that I had no intention of living stealth and yet I am in a way.  The people who knew before know of course but I've met a lot of people since who do not know and I'd rather they didn't (the befores and afters are unlikely to mix with each other).  There is no reason to volunteer the information and since the afters accept and treat me as a woman, why would I want to mess that up?  Yet I see a certain inevitability that these people will find out and I worry about the consequences of discovery and so here I am, sitting in the box I said I intended to avoid.  I never thought I would pass completely, but evidently I do and so this is an unexpected result really.  So unless I tell people or wear a badge, they have no reason to suspect.  Hmm...so stealth it is then...until they find out...if they find out...

Dawn

Interesting thread, this!  And, Dawn, You've kind of answered a 'what if' question I had...

I agree that personal relationships have to have total honesty about our trans status.  If anybody doubts the violent reactions that can occur, please review the scene in "The Crying Game" where Fergus discovers Dil's transgender status...

To those people I'm out to who have asked if I'm doing this for sex, I point out that the most likely result of being honest with potential (male) intimate parters is instantaneous rejection -- not only will they no longer view me as a potential 'playmate', but they will likely have nothing at all to do with me after that.  If I'm looking for 'sex', I'm certainly going about it the wrong way!

If you are living stealth, the idea is not to tell...duh! :P


tinkerbell :icon_chick:

First I'd like to say you need to be open and honest about what you are embarking on. Transitioning from mtf is a life altering event. You would need to be living as a female in every aspect before even considering srs. I am not for keeping secrects for long. I know I will have to tell my family about it sooner or later, sooner than later. They may not agree with me and may shune or scorn me but I know inside I will be accepted once it is done. There will be some adjusting to little things once transitioned. It may be hard at first and there will be some hurt but I think it's better to come out with it at least with family.

Secound I have to disagree  somewhat on women are treated like s..t. Yes women sometimes get badly treated but men get treated badly and worse just as much if not more. Because as male we are expected to perform to be macho and are talked and treated with rigidity. I never liked the tough rigid regeim that was forced on me most of my life. It's for this reason I am transitioning. Also because I like the easyer lifestyle that women enjoy.

owen

love being female

Quote from: Owen on September 15, 2006, 08:51:36 PM
Secound I have to disagree  somewhat on women are treated like s**t. Yes women sometimes get badly treated but men get treated badly and worse just as much if not more.

This is something that's very difficult to really understand until you live life as a woman for a while.  It's very subtle for the most part, but it is there.  It's men who are treating women that way.  Are you saying women are treating men worse?  It seems like they just do it to themselves.

Quote from: Owen on September 15, 2006, 08:51:36 PM
Also because I like the easyer lifestyle that women enjoy.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but living as a woman is hard work.  Look at getting ready for instance.  A man rolls out of be, showers quickly, combs through is hair and thows on some pants and a shirt.  A woman gets out of be and showers.  She shaves her armpits and legs if wearing something that shows leg.  Then she gets out and has to pick out an outfit from her large assortment of clothes, then put it on and put her make up on.  Then she has to do her hair so it looks good too.  I will tell you as a woman, it easily takes me a half hour longer each day to get ready.
Then we have the amount of housework, shopping, etc while wearing uncomfortable shoes.  A woman is constantly being judged by everyone and must act her best at all times.  A man goes to work, does his job, comes home and eats, then does whatever he wants.  The woman is always expected to be the responsible one ans show utmost courtesy most of the time and yet she is usually paid less to do the same job as a man.  A woman has to eat less and still work harder to maintain a healthy looking weight or else you have no good clothes that fit and people treat you worse when you're fat.  Then there's the added challenges of being TS.  Honey, if you're looking for an "easier lifestyle", then staying as a man would be preferrable.

Now that all being said, I find many small moments in life are the ones that make it worth being female.  Simple things like just having girl talk or wearing the right clothes or having somebody compliment you on an outfit.  The courtesies that people offer to make it just a little easier.  The smiles that women exchange with you just passing by.  Just smebody calling you ma'am or referring to you as "she".  The ability to play with other children without people thinking you're a pedophile.  The ability to touch somebody without them assuming you're making sexual advances toward them.  Having things paid for or somebody giving you a little "extra" all help contribute to making being a woman nice.  I think women tend to have more freedoms (which you alluded to for your first reason), but I would hardly say an easier lifestyle.

Personally I transitioned for several reasons.  I needed a female identity, I needed a female body, I needed the world to see me as female, I could not have any relationships as a man because I did not possess the instincts, I wanted female friends, etc.  It was just right for me.  My expectations of transition were fairly accurate.  Life is at least as good as I imagined it, if not better.  I will say none of my problems went away except 1 was reduced, and additional ones were created.  The 1 that was reduced was how I felt about my gender.  And you know what, so far it's been al worth it.

Whoops, little bit of a rant there.

Melissa

Melissa I think I spoke a little to quick here especially about the secound part. I really don't have much of an idea of what it's really like to be a woman and treated like one. I have only gone out enfemme a few times and those few times I have been treated wonderfully so I think I got a more fantasy look as to being a woman. I understand men have been treating women badly for years. AS for being treated badly as a male I meant that I have been  looked upon as something of a machine that is I was always expeccted to perform and if I didn't perform exactly as told i was treated like a soda machine that doesnt give out product or eats the dollar it gets puched and kicked. I don't think I bring anything on myself. I am  very kind and caring and sensitive just as much as a woman.   As for the easy lifestyle I did not mean it to be any easyer than being male. I understand fully that it is not  easy being a woman and there are a lot of things a woman must do before going out. As well as house work and everthing else.

Also being that I live with my mom who needs me now that she is getting on in age I clean up the dishes and put everything away as well as housework like vacumming, dusting/. I also do the wash and I cook ocationally. So I have a taste of what it's like.




I need to indetify me as female because it is the way I have felt about myself for years. Only I had to comply and and act as male that I have with resonable results. I wouldnt give up on some things that I enjoyed as male as I have noticed that women are starting to get into these things too. I have many interists that I enjoy daily some  male oriented and some female oriented. I enjoy them imensily.

What I mean here is I just have a need to be with females and be friends. I am just learning how it is to be female and so far I like it. Clothes that are female give me a good feeling and look good on me to boot. I now have just as much female attire that I do male. I love putting on eyeliner, mascara, and lipgloss of various shades. I know to be a woman means having to give up a certain amount of pleasures I enjoyed as a male but I think it is worth it to me. 

I'm sorry I spoke out before thinking . It's not in my caracter to act out like this. I am always carful to read everything first before responing.

sorry this is long.  You have been an inspiration for me. You are a wish person I will look up to.  Thank you Melissa for burtsing my bubble. I promise not to shout my mouth. :-X

Best

Owen

Love being female ^-^

I've noticed that the men who look down women tend to be the same types who play macho peer pressure games with each other. Either way, they're not people whom I personally would spend my time socializing with so being myself takes priority.

I quite agree Umop, Fortunatly I am not one of them.


owen

love being female

Quote from: Owen on September 16, 2006, 08:14:39 PMFortunatly I am not one of them.

I certainly didn't think you were. ;)

My appearance did not give me away., my family did.  Oh! I didnt think you would mind if I told.  Its my business what I have between my legs and how it got their.  I have been married 33 years and my husband has never questioned my sexuality, nor should he  He married ME not genitalia.

Quote from: Lorelei on September 23, 2007, 05:12:34 PM
... I have been married 33 years and my husband has never questioned my sexuality, nor should he  He married ME not genitalia...

So during the 33 years, you never need to do any dilation?

I know that this is an ancient thread but since someone brought it back to life, we might as well answer it, no?

Quote from: Rose Dawson on June 04, 2005, 06:14:43 AM
Why do we have to tell anyone (our lovers, employer, etc.) of our SRS?

Have?   Living stealth is a choice and so is to be out and proud.  No one HAS to do anything really.

Quote from: Rose Dawson on June 04, 2005, 06:14:43 AM

After SRS, we'll be a woman [or man!] in every sense of the word and no one will be the wiser - as such, why would we want to or possess the need to, inform anyone?

Again, disclosing your past to people is a very personal choice.  I personally chose not to tell anyone about my past, but that's me.  There are other transsexual people who, for a number of reasons, choose to be active in the TG community and hence their past lives are exposed.

Quote from: Rose Dawson on June 04, 2005, 06:14:43 AM

What risks are there in not disclosing our past? What risks are there in doing so?

It depends on a number of factors.  Society in general is not prepared to accept someone as a transsexual; the risks of coming out as TS for some of us are too great to be feasible.  Careers can be ruined, we can lose the respect of our peers, and of course there's always the safety issue. 


tink :icon_chick:

I thought the idea of a gender change was to asume the required gender and live as that gender as well as humanly possible. Stealth is surely part of that? and who wants to go around saying 'by the way I'm a transsexual'....I certainly don't.........this forum is as far as I go as far as exposure. I'm not going to have a  'this is my transition website'  like so many others seem to want to do and broadcast thier whole life story....no thanks..

Quote from: Berliegh on September 30, 2007, 05:43:33 PM
I thought the idea of a gender change was to asume the required gender and live as that gender as well as humanly possible. Stealth is surely part of that? and who wants to go around saying 'by the way I'm a transsexual'....I certainly don't.........this forum is as far as I go as far as exposure. I'm not going to have a  'this is my transition website'  like so many others seem to want to do and broadcast thier whole life story....no thanks..

Well said, but again (and according to what I have read here from many people)  It would seem that this philosophy puts us (you, I and a few others) in the minority group, no?  ;)

tink :icon_chick:

Quote from: Tink on September 30, 2007, 05:52:23 PM

Quote from: Berliegh on September 30, 2007, 05:43:33 PM
I thought the idea of a gender change was to asume the required gender and live as that gender as well as humanly possible. Stealth is surely part of that? and who wants to go around saying 'by the way I'm a transsexual'....I certainly don't.........this forum is as far as I go as far as exposure. I'm not going to have a  'this is my transition website'  like so many others seem to want to do and broadcast thier whole life story....no thanks..

Well said, but again (and according to what I have read here from many people)  It would seem that this philosophy puts us (you, I and a few others) in the minority group, no?  ;)

tink :icon_chick:

I guess I'm another from the minority. Most of the people I know don't have any clue about my past. I don't see where it's any of their business how I started out in life.

Karen Lyn

wow we are a minority in the GLBT community and they are a minority themselves and you are all a minority in our community that is just way too much of a minority. I would say we need to raise awareness for you but that is what you are trying to avoid.. so I will just think of you all often and I guess that is some awareness.. ;D

Posted on: September 30, 2007, 06:10:37 PM

---

on a more serious note if we decied to get a nose job are we supposed to advertise that for the rest of our lives too?

Also, I find it utterly offensive when people think that *I have* a debt (whatever this may be) to them and that *I have* to be out and proud.  Let's remember that that choice between out and stealth is just that, a choice...an entirely personal decision without any expectations or obligations.

Like a dear friend said here once:

QuoteI'm a woman with a transsexual history, not a transsexual, and my history is my business alone.

tink :icon_chick:

Exactly! The only debt we have is to be true to ourselves.

Karen Lyn