Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi,
Where to beginn... At the moment my life is kind of a mess. I'm 22 years old, living openly with my true identity for about 2 years. I was diagnosed with depression for a long time ago, but with some medical help it was always manageable. But the last half a year was awful. It also has to do with a lot of changes (changing my university and my courses) and I'm dealing with a big crisis in my relationship right know. Of course I am not feeling well, but it was never that bad. I'm crying and crying and constantly thinking about the bad things that happened without being able to accept them. When I think about when everything started to get this bad, the hormones come to my mind. I never was the always happy and optimistic kind of human, but in the last time sometimes I can't recognize myself. I cry because of little things and I can barely follow my usual life. It wasn't like that before.
After talking to my psychologist (who  really helps me) I really consider to try to stop my hormone therapy.
Actually the hormones didn't do that much for me. I was always the feminine type (my natural testosteron levels have always been low for a boy) and I was often referred to as Miss even before I transitioned. Because of the hormones my breasts grew just a little bit. Is there a size AAA?^^ But still I'm happy that they changed a little bit. But that was it. My body hair unfortunately didn't change that much and maybe my face changed a little little bit, but that was it. My doctor checks my levels every six months and they are well. I don't know if those little changes on my body but this extremely sad mood, my unstable condition and anxiety are worth it...
I cant say for sure that the hormones caused that on their own, since as you can read my situation isn't that well. But I know that it wasn't that bad before at all.

So what I want to know: Are there people who dealt with the same and stopped taking hormones? Did it get better?
The only thing I'm afraid of is getting more masculine by getting older... But with that price... Like I said I have always been feminine and my health care pays the electrolysis for my face. Also getting bald is uncommon in my family... So maybe I can get away without hormones?

I forget which it is, but one of the common antiandrogens can cause depression, and progesterone as well I believe.

Quote from: AnonyMs on January 27, 2017, 02:00:23 PM
I forget which it is, but one of the common antiandrogens can cause depression, and progesterone as well I believe.

I also read that but my doc insured me that they cant make my mood worse, since we increased them a little bit.

Cyproterone acetate Is the problem one I believe. Try google.

You need to edit out the dosages, not allowed on the site.

Medroxprogesterone is a sythetic progesterone that is commonly prescribed, but it can also cause bad depression. It did for me, but I was able to get upgraded to bio-identical micronized progesterone, and while it calms me and helps me sleep, it does not depress me at all...

I started crying a LOT when I started HRT, and I still cry more than I ever did, but that was just a normal adjustment to a female mind, and a growing awareness of the trauma issues I had supressed all my life..

I get cranky and angry when my HRT is interrupted for any reason now.

I dom't know what your details are. but I am glad you have a good relationship with your psych doc.

Missy

We aren't suposed to post our dosages here, but having seen them, my thoughts are that they are very low dose, so I am not surprised that you have seen little physical change..

I am on 4-5x your current E dosage, even over 5 years into HRT, plus bio-identical progesterone, and I have no intention of ever reducing them, they are just right for my mind and body. I am off anti-androgens because I am post-op, but I was on waaaaay more than you are, and I am genetically female, so, I dunno, it seems your doc is very conservative. It helped me a LOT to always know what my blood test results were, and what they meant, and how they compared to cis female levels, and what other endocrinologists were doing with other girsl in transition.

Knowledge is power. Get second opinions whenever possible, maybe even a third, or more..

I hope you feel better soon!

Missy

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,147364.msg1212032.html#msg1212032

Quote from: Cindy on August 24, 2013, 02:24:36 AM
If you are on the anti-androgen Cyproterone acetate it is well known to cause severe depression in some people. Particularly if you have depression to begin with. If you are on it get off it quickly!

Yep, cypro can cause depression, even at seemingly small doses.. Did it to me twice. My solution was to simply stop taking the cypro for a few weeks until I was feeling better - at no point did I stop E.

Thank you for your answers, I really appreciate them :)
I'm going to make an appointment with my doc soon to discuss the issue with him. A second opinion wouldn't be that bad, but here it's kinda hard to find an endocrinologist who knows about HRT. I will see after the next appointment!

I'd try stopping it anyway. Going without antiandrogens for a while isn't a huge problem.

Once your T is suppressed you can keep it that way with E alone. Blood tests are useful to make sure it's working.

Quote from: cej on January 27, 2017, 09:13:23 PM
Once your T is suppressed you can keep it that way with E alone. Blood tests are useful to make sure it's working.

True, but anti-androgens work to block what T one does have from engaging our testosterone receptors, thus short-circuiting the continuing influence of T on our secondary sexual characteristics and state of mind..

Changing to spiro is both cost effective and effective in assisting us in reaching our transitional goals..

Missy

I think the most important thing would be to find out if it's causing depression or not, and that easily done by stopping for a while.

Quote from: AnonyMs on January 27, 2017, 10:30:21 PM
I think the most important thing would be to find out if it's causing depression or not, and that easily done by stopping for a while.

While I agree with your opinion, and I am not calling you out on this, I am reminding myself that in practice it is probably better for us to have actual doctors advising us as to how we should proceed with prescription medications. I also have opinions, many, in fact, and I can do research, thank goodness, and I can tell of my own experiences when asked, but I need to try to not sound like I am advising anything that I am not qualified to give advice on. I think it safer, and more ethical, to share and support, but to not forget the reality that I have not been to medical school, lol, nor do I carry malpractice insurance, ha!

I sometimes do forget these things, and I get pedantic, so yeah, it can be a fine liine...

That said, I believe in rigorously engaging my health care team in the pursuit of the best care possible, based on the most well-informed decisions, but I believe it is the patients' responsibility to self-educated and challenge any medical directives that seem counter to one's own needs. I have found my doctors to be responsive and willing to augment their own educations in response to well thought out feedback and counter-arguments. If they do not receive feedback well, they are not going to be on my health care team very long.

Missy

I agree, just bearing in mind there's plenty of incompetent doctors around. Personally I'd stop even without asking my doctor, but Im aware of what I'm doing. I'd not reccomend others do that.

Quote from: AnonyMs on January 27, 2017, 11:03:21 PM
I agree, just bearing in mind there's plenty of incompetent doctors around. Personally I'd stop even without asking my doctor, but Im aware of what I'm doing. I'd not reccomend others do that.

I agree 100%.

Missy

Stopping the cypro was the advice given to me by both my psychiatrist and gyno..

Again, thank you for your answers :)
I won't do anything before talking to my endocrinologist. Even if I am unsure about his knowledge since he was convinced that the cyproterone acetate can't cause my depression, and here I'm reading the utter opposite, he still is my doctor. But I highly tend to do a break of the hormones. Let's see...
By the way commenting on cej's post. Keep in mind that my male genitals are still in tact and that I don't plan on changing that. So my body still produces testosterone.

You could try to get a 2nd doctors opinion

Quote from: Omnom on January 28, 2017, 03:38:42 AM
Again, thank you for your answers :)
I won't do anything before talking to my endocrinologist. Even if I am unsure about his knowledge since he was convinced that the cyproterone acetate can't cause my depression, and here I'm reading the utter opposite, he still is my doctor. But I highly tend to do a break of the hormones. Let's see...
By the way commenting on cej's post. Keep in mind that my male genitals are still in tact and that I don't plan on changing that. So my body still produces testosterone.

Well, when I presented with unexpected and unexplainable depression to my shrink, he knew it was the cypro and called my gyno during the session and said "We've got another one.". He then informed me that it wasn't uncommon. I'm non-op, but the shrink and gyno both said that a break from cypro for 2 weeks would not be an issue due to my T level being so low - gyno also suggested that my testicles had shut down by that point anyway. Neither recommended stopping E.

Quote from: Omnom on January 28, 2017, 03:38:42 AM
Again, thank you for your answers :)
I won't do anything before talking to my endocrinologist. Even if I am unsure about his knowledge since he was convinced that the cyproterone acetate can't cause my depression, and here I'm reading the utter opposite, he still is my doctor. But I highly tend to do a break of the hormones. Let's see...
By the way commenting on cej's post. Keep in mind that my male genitals are still in tact and that I don't plan on changing that. So my body still produces testosterone.

Studies have confirmed that cyproterone acetate can indeed cause depression in some transwomen. If you need those studies and want to show the doctor, pm me.

Your body after being exposed to estrogen and cyproterone acetate will STOP producing testosterone or at the very least, its production will go down, depending on doses. The body thinks that it is getting enough hormones due to cyproterone or estrogen so it stops producing its own and produces less.

Check with your doctor.

Would be interested in reading those studies!
I have an appointment next week and I'll keep you up to date :)
EDIT:
@KayXo
Thank you really much for the studies :) cant answer you via private message...

Today was my appointment. My doc seemed very understanding (but he also was like that last time, I hope this time he actually understood that I can't go on like this). We will decrease my dosage of my hormones. Today they took my blood and on Monday I will call my doctor and we will see what we will change. But still I tend to take the minimum dosage of both the estrogen and the anti androgens.