Susan's Place Transgender Resources

   For a little background, I will say that due to fears about how my medical transition might progress, I have been down in the dumps lately. Things are out of my control and I have recently lost some confidence. I write this not as a pity party but rather as a chance for enlightenment from some sisters who have been through most or all of their life change.
   I picture that it is common to go through stages of change. I will try to describe them as I see them.
       Stage 1: You are brought up male. For however long that is, there is a question one asks, "Why am I a guy who wishes to be and needs to be a girl?" You may think you are the only one like this. Everyone says you are a male. (Especially true before the internet) You have strong feelings that you are not really a guy.
        Stage 2: If you transition you enter a time of very mixed feelings. Chances are you have a lot of adjustments to make. You might even ask, "What am I?"  You may no longer feel integrated into the world as a male, but you may  not feel that you have attained "woman hood."
        Stage3: You have enough RLE experience, loss of dysphoria, GCS, or whatever it takes to be able to completely say "I am a woman."  (Not cis, of course.)

   I will admit to being in stage 2. I am quite sure I am not a man. I feel very distant from that stage. My insecurities about my hair, my voice, my social integration and genital dysphoria are so important to how I view myself right now. When I am down, I sometimes feel like I am a "genderless blob." I am not able at 7 months full time to claim that I feel like  a woman.
   Sorry this is such a long winded way to ask, but can anyone share their experience of making that leap. Is there a way of thinking that helps? Does it just take time and experiences. Does having GCS or other surgery help get you there. If someone could give some insight, maybe  it would help myself or others see the path. I could use  a boost right now. Thanks!
Monica

Speaking for myself, time was the key. At first I wanted things to happen fast. I expected changes immediately. As time trudged on, I became happier. Then I got to a point where I no longer cared about others input of how I look, how my voice sounded. Take me as I am, or get out of the way.

The clincher was GCS. I believe it brought my transition to an end, I am at the happy spot where I'm happy with myself, I can look in the mirror and believe what I'm seeing.

So I think when you stop judging yourself, finding faults, and believe in yourself...then you're on the right path.

I think I rambled.

Hi Monica,

Prior to GCS at work I would use the single stall bathrooms (unless there were none available). In my mind I set a condition that after GCS I would use the woman's room. I felt not male and not female. Now when I use the woman's room I still have some apprehension but I feel that I fit.  The apprehension is around my height 6'2" or 6'1", voice and hair loss. I do not look like a female or one is not like the rest.

When I get my hair corrected I will still be tall and my voice will still not be female. I will have my voice corrected but I will still be tall.

I definitely do not look like a guy and I will never look cis female. I like the person I am and I try to be the best person I can be. I would love to find a male partner but realize that will be difficult. I feel different and no matter what I do I will have the  same feelings. So what am I? The reality is I will always be different.

I really needed GCS. It ended my genital dysphoria. Everything else I have and will do is to better fit in. I am different but have the same insecurities as any other woman. It will take time to feel like a woman and it is happening in small ways every day. 

Looking back is always a little difficult as you tend to recall the good and repress the bad but I remember having the feelings of 'playing a part' rather than being female. Somewhere in the journey that feeling went away and at least in my recollection it had nothing to do with any surgery it was more of a fitting in to my comfort zone.

Everyone in my circle and in my society: shops, work friends etc were all treating me as expected as a woman and over time I realised that I also was. To be honest nothing changed, my life is similar to 'his' but the difference being that I am happy, confident and never think about gender unless I'm working on the Forum.

In summary, in my case I think it was a time thing and I have to admit I'm 5-6 years full time.

One thing I never completely understood.. if you felt like you were always a girl, but with born with a defect how can anyone settle for less than as much as is possible to be one?

I mean I get it that some are tall, some have deep voices, some look like linebackers.. but why not go as far as you can to be true to your inner image?

I little about me... I've been transitioned some 20+ years ago.. gcs, voice work, soon (YAY!) to be ffs.. If I see something I don't like in me, I fix it, if I can.   Some things I can't fix, like my height so I find ways to use that to my advantage.  My spouse on the other hand (she's also post op) doesn't care about her voice, doesn't shave every day, its even hell to get her to utilize important hygiene sometimes too.  She's comfortable 'enough' with people mistaking her gender.  She's a foot shorter than me and gets misgendered a lot more than me.. me, almost never.  I'm 6'2.

I personally find it hard to understand, but ultimately its an individual choice I think.. how you see yourself and how comfortable you are with who you are.  Personally I'm not comfortable at all being viewed other than female.. I don't feel I was born trans.. I feel I was born female with wrong stuff.

Just me and my 2 cents :) 

Quote from: HappyMoni on January 28, 2017, 08:39:57 PMMy insecurities about my hair, my voice, my social integration and genital dysphoria are so important to how I view myself right now. When I am down, I sometimes feel like I am a "genderless blob." I am not able at 7 months full time to claim that I feel like a woman.

Sorry this is such a long winded way to ask, but can anyone share their experience of making that leap. Is there a way of thinking that helps? Does it just take time and experiences. Does having GCS or other surgery help get you there. If someone could give some insight, maybe  it would help myself or others see the path. I could use a boost right now.

You're in a liminal period of your life right now -- that's what transition is.  Yes, it takes time and patience.  But it also takes work -- tearing down old aspects of your life and building something new. 

For me, it wasn't a great leap so much as a series of very long strides.  Finding my voice -- that was huge.  Getting cleared thanks to electrolysis.  Facial surgery.  And SRS.

Now yes, these are all things having to do with embodiment.  It's the bedrock, the foundation of transition, but I can't say it's just this.  I think transsexing depends on embodiment, but just because something is necessary doesn't mean it's sufficient.  All that time in between wasn't just sitting on my thumb -- I did a lot of reading (a sort of crash course, everything from Judy Blume to academic stuff like Deborah Tannen) and reflection on what I actually learned in my disastrous girlhood.  It also took getting out into the world and simply letting it gender me correctly, then adapting to the subsequently new social expectations, from the trivial to the profound.  Over and over again, just letting it sink in, absorbing it, and responding to it. 

Frankly, it took a good couple of years after all the surgeries were done, and building a life without narrative baggage, before that final "leap" of complete self-acceptance took place. 

So don't fret.  You're in transition now.  I know the metaphor is terribly cliché, but we are like moths, and transition is simply the period of "cocooning" where everything changes... and once we emerge from our shells, we still have to dry off our wings and learn to fly. 

I did a full transition overnight, so to say, in that I came out to everyone within a few days of having ffs and changing my name and gender. The first months following transition were rough, mainly because it's virtually impossible in my mind to convince anybody (including myself at times) that a person can physically change gender overnight. During those first months I truly realized and mourned the loss of all those important, formative years I missed as I grew up the wrong gender. But - I never felt more at peace with who I was identifying as, and actually felt pure elation at having transitioned.

As time has passed, hormones have worked their magic and my facial features have "settled" into their post op plan. I have undergone breast enhancement surgery (which shockingly I find to be a huge aid in passing!) and also vocal surgery. Voice training, even with surgery, is one of the most difficult things I've ever undertaken... And it's also one of the most imperative changes I need to undergo, in my opinion. I have a huge issue with genital dysphoria, so that is another imperative, although an orchiectomy really helped with that.

After almost 18 months I believe most of the looks I get are from jealous women who can't believe my 6'2" height. Men look, some figure it out but aren't sure enough to really say anything. Older men stare at my boobs. Having longer hair is another real aid in passing, whether real or a high quality wig.

I think the takeaway from all this is that if you are mostly binary, once you go full time you are forced to start living life the way all women do. You want nice clothes, you have to learn about makeup, you start to suppress the fake macho crap you spouted all your male life. In essence, being a woman reinforces your transition and makes passing easier and easier as time goes on.

Finally, I still grieve over not being "complete" or even "real" sometimes. My wife suggested that I read about women who are infertile and feel that they are not fully women like their friends and counterparts. That was a great call - there is a strong parallel between women who feel different, cheated in life, and transgender women.

Part of the challenge is our use of language in our narratives of understanding process.  A key for me is distinguishing between gender identity and gender roles.

How does one know what a woman feels like if they have never been seen or treated as one?  No one is born a woman or man, we are born as babies.  Babies grow into children and children go through puberty, socialization and the process of becoming a mature adult may take decades.  Those years of learning cultural norms and rules are the old tapes we may need to overcome to find and be ourselves. 

I suggest that even those of us who have "always known" or have been able to understand gender and articulate their own unique identity from the first moments of speech and expression are rare.  I also believe that as culture and mass media expand our knowledge that many more young people will be in that camp with parents who will also understand and support them.  That is what I am seeing in real time today.

I felt I needed to have much more experience living as a woman before I could comfortably own that title.  I still do so with an asterisk, explanation or modifier such as trans woman.  I know I will continually have opportunities to learn, adjust and adapt.  I like to think I will welcome new knowledge and transition will be a hallmark of life.  I find my transgender obsession is lessening with time and experience.  Significant issues beyond gender demand our attention every day.

We can certainly realize personal goals like HRT, FFS and other surgeries that fit our needs, pocket book and timeline.  Really integrating all of theses changes and feeling our own hearts, minds and bodily congruity to be right and at peace is  part of the journey I am working toward.  All good things come to an end but even a sausage has two ends ;)

Hi Monica

I think that your level of sheer brute determination and the will to succeed are the key things here.  There is no doubt that it takes time to adjust to seeing yourself - and being seen - in your new gender, but this will come with time.  And the harder you apply yourself to being that girl, the quicker it will come.  Work on your voice, mannerisms and how you hold your body, and change will occur.  My voice took 6-8 months of hard work.

There is really no need to see yourself as a genderless blob, truly!  You are moving from one gender to the other, and this is an incredible thing to experience, so my advice to you is to enjoy it, and revel in a journey that so few people ever undertake.

It might sound a bit weird to enjoy your transition, but it is possible. I was fortunate that my work, family and friends were very supportive and actively involved, and a cute, decent male friend of mine was very willing to be intimate with me from the start to the end of my journey. This was incredibly validating, and at no time did I feel like a genderless blob.  I did get to the point when I had run out of patience with the "bits below" and knew that I was ready for GRS.

Everyone has their ups and downs, so don't get down - just go buy some pretty shoes or a new lipstick!

With many hugs
Julia

Hi Moni,

I am not sure if this helps, but everyone's transition is a unique experience, and I can tell you as someone who had GCS & BA back in 2004, that helped tremendously for my self-image to be confirmed as a woman.  These were the parts of my life I had the most dysphoria.  Once I had them addressed, the dysphoria went away.  I started to really see my self as female, and that internal self-identity grew and began to be manifested outwardly more and more.  This helped others see me as a woman, and then life just was.  I was living in it as a woman, doing all of the things my girl friends were doing.  It took time, years in fact, to get to that point, but it does happen.

And then, and I talked about this in another post, I started to lose a lot of my memories of being a man.  I mean I know I was one for over 30 years, but I no longer know what it feels like to traverse "a man's world".  I no longer carry myself as a man does.  I find I no longer relate to situations as my male collegues and friends relate to them.  It is strange, because I know I use to act as they did, whether it was to fit in, or just because of societal expectation.  Now I coduct myself as my female peers do. I use to do it quite consciously, but know it is just how I react.  Basically no different than any of my women friends and collegues.

Time was the factor and just living.  The changes were subtle, but they happened.  I still have aspects that sometimes get me clocked, and for the longest time, I just didn't care.  These were my height and voice.  Well I cannot change my height, as Rachel Lynn mentioned, so I am going to do what I can to make my voice better.  And I love being tall, unless I am shopping, but that is a story for another time.

Moni, we all have gone or are going through the feelings you have. Talking with your friends or posting here will hopefully help, I know that I am endlessly more happy now than I was back in 2002.  And I never regret the decision to be me and to transition.  I just try to be the best person I can be and hopefully offer some help to others.  I cannot tell you if surgery is the right answer for you, onely you will know that.  But for me, adressing my dysphoria, improved my life one-thousand fold.  :)

Hugs,
Sarah

I did not transition, but I mostly wear skirts everyday. In 14 years since I started women's clothes, gender identity is no longer a major issue in my daily life. It once was, but now I think I am just between a man and a woman. It is OK for me. I have a role as a man at my home, and sometimes at my work place. Some people treat me as a woman, and others as a man. But gender identity is no longer so much important, compared with my personality and career. Yes. Once people used to ask me whether I am a man or a woman, but nowadays few people ask it, as they already know who I am or are not interested in my gender identity. I interact with people for education and work, not for any sexual thing. Yes. Sometimes a few people praise my beauty, and I have more female friends than ever before. Now the most important issue to me is education of my kids, as it requires huge money... Alas...

barbie~~

Hi Ladies,
   I am so grateful to each an every one who has replied. You ladies have such a wonderful story to tell. I actually hope that me posting this now doesn't end the thread. I would love to hear more stories and maybe it would help others as well. You see, there is so much on this site about many of the details we all worry about with transition, nails, hair, voice, and on and on. To hear that I can fully feel like the woman that I should always have been means so much to me. I will go through anything to feel that. I think when we first go out into the world during transition, it feels like we are walking on a tight rope. All the insecurities act like a wind that wants to knock us off our path. The thing that steadies me is the knowledge that there is no other path. The "he" of me is gone. Knowing that I will truly be "she," confident and comfortable with myself...well, it's the best thing ever. I am in your debt for helping me with this. :)
Moni

I have heard others say we never truly end our transition.

I started and ended my physical transition from 1975-77, SRS age 26.  Never had much male baggage so that wasn't a problem.  Had/have a very supportive family and work.

I always passed well enough so that is not a problem.  As I have aged no-one even looks anymore.  At 66, people tend to not look at old people.

So I guess my transition ended somewhere in there.

When does full transition end?  When you run out of money, ha ha.  (Okay, bad joke.)

This is a really interesting thread, as I have struggled for some time with the question of whether I will ever "be a woman". I really don't know what that feels like, having suffered through 50 years of testosterone poisoning and social indoctrination as a male. 

I never had a girlhood, or a mother-daughter relationship.  I never hung out with girlfriends, or had a slumber party, talking about boys and makeup. I've never had a womb, or menstruated, not will I ever bear children. It pains me to say that just because I have always wanted to be female since I was age 6 or 7, it doesn't make me one.

So what the heck am I doing, risking my whole male life to transition?  Seeking happiness is the only answer I can give you.  I may never be a woman, but I can be a "reasonable facsimile thereof".  If I can manage to maintain a "female user interface" with society, and be perceived and treated as a woman, I would be happy with that. I can tell you that is already happening, and I am already happier than I can ever remember being.  I guess that will have to do.

~Terri

Quote from: Maybebaby56 on January 30, 2017, 04:41:07 PM
When does full transition end?  When you run out of money, ha ha.  (Okay, bad joke.)

This is a really interesting thread, as I have struggled for some time with the question of whether I will ever "be a woman". I really don't know what that feels like, having suffered through 50 years of testosterone poisoning and social indoctrination as a male. 

I never had a girlhood, or a mother-daughter relationship.  I never hung out with girlfriends, or had a slumber party, talking about boys and makeup. I've never had a womb, or menstruated, not will I ever bear children. It pains me to say that just because I have always wanted to be female since I was age 6 or 7, it doesn't make me one.

So what the heck am I doing, risking my whole male life to transition?  Seeking happiness is the only answer I can give you.  I may never be a woman, but I can be a "reasonable facsimile thereof".  If I can manage to maintain a "female user interface" with society, and be perceived and treated as a woman, I would be happy with that. I can tell you that is already happening, and I am already happier than I can ever remember being.  I guess that will have to do.

~Terri

I really appreciate your candor about these aspects of our transition Terri.  What we missed out on growing up can certainly impact our sense of who we are and the struggle for a clear and simple statement of our identity.  I suppose even those who transition at the earliest of ages experience some sense of missing something.  Still, those who now transition as teens or younger will likely have fewer misses or regrets??  I sure hope so.

Not every cisgender woman can have or wants to have children and all the joys of a menstrual cycle.  Not every man  fathers children.   Seems like plenty of room for us and who knows how "complete" our options for transition can become in the future??

Another thing I noticed is when I am having conversations with cis-women on intimate topics, like sex and men (or women), I am just part of the conversation contributing like everyone else.  My perspective is assumed to be as a woman, my trans background or perspective from being a former cis-male is never brought up.  This to me is further confirmation that I made it. 

The more of these situations that occur, the more I personally feel that I am a woman.  I never bring up the fact that I can never have children or that I never have a period.  I guess there is one benefit of being an older person, assumed menapause.  But being included and accepted into these circles shows so much validation to me.  I could not ask for anything more than to just be accepted as a woman by my peers.

Quote from: Tessa James on January 30, 2017, 04:59:48 PM
Not every cisgender woman can have or wants to have children and all the joys of a menstrual cycle.  Not every man  fathers children.   Seems like plenty of room for us and who knows how "complete" our options for transition can become in the future??

Those are good points, Tessa.  Does one's life experiences define reality?  If you believe in your heart you are female, are you?

Where I get confused is considering that there are natal women who look like truck drivers and don't seem to have a lick of femininity about them.  Am I just as much of a woman as they are?   I'm not sure. To keep my argument congruent, I would have to say, no, but I am much more feminine than they are.   Does femininity = femaleness?  There are effeminate males, that identify as men, so maybe not. I just go around in circles with this.

Quote from: Inarasarah on January 30, 2017, 05:02:27 PM
Another thing I noticed is when I am having conversations with cis-women on intimate topics, like sex and men (or women), I am just part of the conversation contributing like everyone else.  My perspective is assumed to be as a woman, my trans background or perspective from being a former cis-male is never brought up.  This to me is further confirmation that I made it. 

The more of these situations that occur, the more I personally feel that I am a woman.  I never bring up the fact that I can never have children or that I never have a period.  I guess there is one benefit of being an older person, assumed menapause.  But being included and accepted into these circles shows so much validation to me.  I could not ask for anything more than to just be accepted as a woman by my peers.

Well said, Sarah. You expressed my feelings better than I did.

With kindness,

Terri

Quote from: Inarasarah on January 30, 2017, 05:02:27 PM
Another thing I noticed is when I am having conversations with cis-women on intimate topics, like sex and men (or women), I am just part of the conversation contributing like everyone else.  My perspective is assumed to be as a woman, my trans background or perspective from being a former cis-male is never brought up.  This to me is further confirmation that I made it. 

To me, it is not. Nowadays I'm not more than a guy with a wig, however my girlfriends openly talk about strictly feminine issues when I'm there with them, things like boyfriends, menstruation and even their boobs, to the point of showing them for comparison (too bad I can't contribute to that). And I see it not like "I made it" because I'm not even on HRT, but more like "these girls really accept this guy-with-a-wig into their universe", "they are really respectful and inclusive".

My thoughts are that it is a journey not a destination. Like all journeys, you try and focus on the wonderful scenery and experiences, and try to ignore the junked out cars and garbage at the side of the road. Sometimes the latter is not easy at all.

So i'm not sure i even recognize what the "full transition" is. You did not say this at all, but often i hear the term used by the outside world as meaning the "big surgery" of GCS. i always bristle when i hear that a bit for pretty obvious reasons. I think a lot of people see their identities as being in a funk at times, i think we all do regardless of gender expression or identity.

For me, coming out was a non-event because i had been expressing as a feminine person for most of my life, but even so the transition created really big changes that had nothing or little to do with others. (Except perhaps my immediate family). I feel like I am fully woman and i try to not compare myself to other women, i try not to consider that they arrived at their gender identity and preferred expression in a much different way than i did.

I can identify with the emotional ups and downs and striving for things that seem out of reach. My best strategy is keep busy, surround myself with people that i love and that care about me, and keep trying to make progress into being a better and better woman and person.

Quote from: Inarasarah on January 30, 2017, 05:02:27 PM
Another thing I noticed is when I am having conversations with cis-women on intimate topics, like sex and men (or women), I am just part of the conversation contributing like everyone else.  My perspective is assumed to be as a woman, my trans background or perspective from being a former cis-male is never brought up.  This to me is further confirmation that I made it. 

This is a big one for me too. I never really feel like an outsider among other women, while with men i never have felt fully connected socially.  I will concede that maybe that is a low bar as evidence, but maybe it is not. I too accept that there are many things that they experienced that i never will, but i do have some things that i experienced that were very positive in replacement to those. I also have somewhat of a special perspective living in somewhat of a disguise for so long, like you that is rarely brought up, but i think it is at least somewhat beneficial in various situations.

  I think being transsexual means that 100% total satisfaction with one's gender is not happening. We were born in the wrong bodies and we can spend and spend like Terri says and maybe approach what we want to a satisfactory degree body wise. Mentally, ladies here are saying that after you live it for a while it can happen. You can feel like a woman. I had an experience lately that illustrates to me  a few things I am lacking for my self concept of being a woman. About four younger women at my work (after hours) came and found me to include me in going through a sex toy catalog. I was invited to a party also. Now, it felt great to be included as just one of the girls. That is so important. The talk started about the different toys they had used, which was better, etc,. Instantly, I was an outsider in my head. I am preop at this point and I was dying to share, but I had nothing to share. My experience is incomplete in this very important area. They had other comments about relationships, their backgrounds as women, and I sat there with 7 months RLE. Most of that is filled with adjusting and worrying about my presentation. There has not been a lot of "just relax and living it" time. Now that I look at it, I expect that is normal with such a big life change. The fear, as I sat there looking at them was, "Oh God, will I ever be a seamless partner in this group? Will I ever have the experiences I need to be " a real Girl?"
What has been posted on this thread has given me a lot of hope. I  can think of a good analogy. What do you think ladies? Wanting to feel like a "real" woman is kind of like wanting to speak fluent French when you are only just taking your second or third French class. Time, practice, and living in the country will make you fluent. I was essentially sitting there with my friends, thumbing through the English-French-Woman dictionary. If you consider the motivation factor that dysphoria so generously provides, it seems realistic that we can become fluent in "feeling like a woman." Or am I crazy? :)
Moni

Hi Moni!!

Sorry to be late to your party, but hey, I'll try to make up for lost time..

As you know, I was born female, but I was forced into an FTM transition, complete with genital mutilations, er, re-assignment, and forced T and HGH dosing...

The result of these things, was that I was turned into a pretty good facsimile of a 'boy', and then, a 'man'..

And having lived through all that, the end result was a life lived very much in parallel to a biologically male transgender girl..

What strikes me most of all, are the similarities in emotional anguish and self-concept between myself and trans women. To the naked eye, we are indistinguishable, and our internal struggles, vastly similar.

Though my recent journey has technically been a de-transition, for most purposes, it was a transition, just like your transition, with all the same insecurities, regrets, fears, and confusion. Being a binary woman, I also feel that my past may make it impossible for me to ever release some of my baggage and 'just be a woman'. So, yeah, I get it. Having no Y chromosome does NOT exclude me from the very same concerns, not even after vaginal reconstruction and over 5 years of HRT. I am taller than most women, due to T and HGH dosing, and in utero progestin exposure also impacted my brain structures. If anybody ever wanted to create a pseudo-transwoman, I know a good recipe, lol..

So, it seems to me, that your question requires several different answers.

How does full transition end?

Well, I dunno. Mine is still a work in progress. Though I am rarely clocked in real life, even at my height, I feel I am vulnerable in pictures and print. When I am in front of a person, they see the woman I am, in my gestures, facial expressions, in my eyes, and they hear it in my speech. When I walk, I walk like a model. When I move, I move as a lady moves. There is nothing 'male' left to see. My dress is appropriate for my body and disposition, and my makeup flatters without drawing attention, while also disguising the T damage done to my facial structure.

But, from certain angles, in certain lighting, my need for a type III forehead reconstruction can become clear. Without the benefit of seeing me and hearing me and knowing me, a picture can lead to being read as something other than female. Sucks, but true. Same with when I am writing something detailed or intellectually involved, I use metaphors and syntax that very feminine, cis women, with normal lives, do not generally use. Thus, raising a red flag, and causing suspicion in a trans-spotter's tiny little mind. The amount of exposure that trans people have been getting in the media has made life much harder for me than it would otherwise be, but that's another story...

So, when does a full transition end?

Well, the physical aspect ends when all options to improve one's appearance and comportment have been utilized.

The mental aspect is a continuing journey until one just never thinks about it, and one has over-written the past-life narrative with a new script. I am not sure if this is possible when living among those that knew us back then. If I had a wife and kids, bless them all, how could such a situation ever allow a complete release of past perspectives and realities? You will read a lot of posts where trans girls complain that their wives, if they stay married, are impediments to their full new self-realization, whether deliberately, or not. There seems to be a higher rate of non-binary transitions in marriages that do survive. I wonder if some of these are compromised transitions rather than actually being the desired outcomes for such MTFs. I know I benefitted very much by walking away from all aspects of my past life to live in stealth in a new area. I was never clocked there, and the progress I made there was astounding in depth and scope. Now that I am living where a few people know my past, I have lost ground, and I am less secure in my self-identity as a woman. I have lost confidence, even though my looks keep improving. I will leave here as soon as I can, I miss being free of past memories, context can be everything..

The emotional aspect, well, that came after vaginal reconstruction, and the loss of dysphoria was immediate. No matter if I feel I am passing, my emotional state is always that of a woman now. No history can rob me of this truth.

The psychological aspects are still being worked out. I know my brain was impacted by T, and in utero progestin exposures, and I am still trying to get a proper neurological evaluation of my brain structures. I don't know where this will lead, but I may have to accept I have an intersex brain, regardless of the purity of my female gender identity. My guess is that my struggle with what was inflicted on me by bad medicine is somewhat parallel to what an MTF feels was inflicted on them genetically. I dunno, this is something I cannot know..

I do know that most of the things that go with a woman'a life are what happens between our ears, and then, in our immediate life.

There are other issues, issues that can be divisive in MTF circles, like retaining male privilege, for example.

As long as my ex was scrubbing the toilets while I was watching TV, was I really living as a woman? As long as we are retaining any advantages afforded by our male lives, are we really embracing and experiencing the fullness of a transition from male to female? I dunno. What I do know, is that, for me, a fully examined approach to attaining full womanhood does not include any space for intellectual dishonesty. Is it possible to be fully transitioned while still taking advantage of any women, ever? Without actually living as a feminist, will merely paying lip-service to feminist causes suffice?

I don't know the answers to these things. I do know that for me, a full transition meant leaving all the trappings of male life behind.

So, maybe that is my answer.

For me, a full transition ends when I am no longer carrying any maleness into my every day life. Not when I am pretty, not when my junk matches my mind, not when I am gendered female by others, but when I am completely free of that which once defined me.

My transition will be full when I am living as if none of that which came before ever happened.

I don't know if anything I just wrote will be of any help, to you, or anybody else, but it helped me a lot to think this through as I replied. Thank you for the opportunity to explore my own self and my own journey.

For whatever it is worth, I think you are a fine woman, already.

Missy

Quote from: HappyMoni on January 31, 2017, 03:45:10 PMI think being transsexual means that 100% total satisfaction with one's gender is not happening.

Could I... tweak that sentiment a bit?

I think it's possible to say, "Having been transsexual means realizing that one's historical gendering was not completely satisfactory... but it is still possible to be 100% satisfied with one's current gendering."

So, there's a couple of implications to unpack here.  First is the idea that "being trans" isn't necessarily a permanent state.  I know a lot of people understand that to be so, but I disagree -- to me, being trans is about experiencing a disconnect between one's internal identity and one's gendering.  In this respect, being trans can be transitory, so long as one succeeds in changing one's gendering to align with the internal reality.  A dear friend of mine calls this process "transsexing" -- which I think is what you're really interested in, where you actually step into womanhood 100%. 

Second, there's a distinction to be made between "gender" and "gendering."  Namely that "gendering" affirms that how we go about assigning and accepting "gender" is actually an interactional process.  What does it mean to be female, to feel female?  For the most part, it means getting gendered as female pretty much constantly, and having to adapt (in some way, shape, or form) to the social expectations that subsequently accrue.  (The same goes in the other direction, of course). 

This allows us to be here now, to focus on the present, rather than the past.  The past no longer exists, and the future is yet to be.  Only the present is actually true.  And in this respect, it is certainly possible to arrive. 

QuoteI had an experience lately that illustrates to me  a few things I am lacking for my self concept of being a woman. About four younger women at my work (after hours) came and found me to include me in going through a sex toy catalog. I was invited to a party also. Now, it felt great to be included as just one of the girls. That is so important. The talk started about the different toys they had used, which was better, etc,. Instantly, I was an outsider in my head. I am preop at this point and I was dying to share, but I had nothing to share. My experience is incomplete in this very important area.

Remember that you're still a woman, albeit a woman with limited experience.  How do women with limited experiences respond to such situations?  We listen, we ask questions, and maybe (if it's the right context) express our own emotional reasons for not having an experience and why we might want to change that.  Like, if I were in that situation, I might be like, "Wait, so this Rabbit doesn't make you so overstimulated that you just have to give up?"  Or, you know, whatever.  Whatever is authentic.  "I've never done any -- any toys.  What's best to start with?" 

Don't focus on what you lack.  Instead, focus on everyone else's experiences, and how to integrate those experiences with your own.  Be the woman who just hasn't explored her sexuality to its fullest yet -- but who is going to, eventually, because she is breaking out of her shell.

And of course, being in an environment without narrative baggage makes a huge difference, too.  As does eventually having SRS.  In this situation, then, you could say you've never done vibrators -- are they really that much better?  And eventually you'll build up your own experiences, and then there won't be any more issues with it. 

QuoteWanting to feel like a "real" woman is kind of like wanting to speak fluent French when you are only just taking your second or third French class. Time, practice, and living in the country will make you fluent. I was essentially sitting there with my friends, thumbing through the English-French-Woman dictionary. If you consider the motivation factor that dysphoria so generously provides, it seems realistic that we can become fluent in "feeling like a woman." Or am I crazy?

Yes, this is an apt metaphor, one of my favorites.

It's one thing to gain citizenship.  It's another to master the language.  And it's still another to lose the accent altogether.  It is realistically possible.  But it takes a lot of work... and really, it takes completely letting go of that previous life.  Immerse yourself into the undiscovered country, from whose boundary you will never go back. 

Hi Missy,
   Thank you for the nice compliment and for your wonderful introspection. Our paths are so parallel sometimes I forget our differences. It is a very similar journey in many ways, I think.
   It probably makes a big difference with seeing the end of the transition depending on whether or not one wants to move on to a whole new existence or if they are okay with keeping their old lives. You have so much to forget compared to me. I think I would want to move on as well. I am beyond lucky with the way people have accepted my news. I can not imagine moving on to a different life. Maybe GCS  will have some surprises for me as you and I have discussed previously, but as of now I will be surrounded by people who know the old me.
   As for ridding oneself of all the  old male ways, it may be necessary for you, but not for me 100%. My partner laughs at me sometimes. As a guy, I was very much a non conformer. If it was done a certain way I said, "There are no shoulda's. Do it the way we want it done. Screw the stereotypical rules". Now she sees me trying to do so many things as a female "should" so I pass and don't get clocked. It is one of the little ironies of my change. It will be very important to me seeing myself as complete to reincorporate that old quality to some extent.
    I think there will always be things that hold us back. I think we can never be free of everything that restricts. Maybe the only true freedom is learning to be okay with some restrictions.
Moni

Quote from: MissGendered on January 31, 2017, 05:36:10 PMWell, the physical aspect ends when all options to improve one's appearance and comportment have been utilized.

The mental aspect is a continuing journey until one just never thinks about it, and one has over-written the past-life narrative with a new script. I am not sure if this is possible when living among those that knew us back then. If I had a wife and kids, bless them all, how could such a situation ever allow a complete release of past perspectives and realities?

You will read a lot of posts where trans girls complain that their wives, if they stay married, are impediments to their full new self-realization, whether deliberately, or not. There seems to be a higher rate of non-binary transitions in marriages that do survive. I wonder if some of these are compromised transitions rather than actually being the desired outcomes for such MTFs. I know I benefitted very much by walking away from all aspects of my past life to live in stealth in a new area. I was never clocked there, and the progress I made there was astounding in depth and scope.

Now that I am living where a few people know my past, I have lost ground, and I am less secure in my self-identity as a woman. I have lost confidence, even though my looks keep improving. I will leave here as soon as I can, I miss being free of past memories, context can be everything...

In general, yes, I agree with everything here.  I had a similar experience with my partner at the time -- no matter how outwardly supportive she was of my transition, there were still old patterns laid that had gendered implications which would get invoked every once in a while.  Things really took off for me once I was on my own.

However, I'm not so sure I'd be absolutist about it.  I think a lot depends on the individual relationship, and the individuals in the relationship.  I know at least one woman who stayed with her partner and it actually worked out just fine, but her partner was a very rare and special woman, a "spiritual master" as I like to put it, someone who could stay present and change and see the invisible self long before it became apparent to anyone else. 

Anyways, yeah, I had the opportunity to go back to a place where I had been known from before.  For the most part, it wasn't an issue -- I'd been gone for seven years, which makes memories much more pliable, coupled with a very different presentation, not to mention the gendering provided by others coming to meet me for the first time.  But it was still something that came up a few times, and eventually I had to leave again, this time for good. 

Quote from: Maybebaby56 on January 30, 2017, 04:41:07 PM
When does full transition end?  When you run out of money, ha ha.  (Okay, bad joke.)

This is a really interesting thread, as I have struggled for some time with the question of whether I will ever "be a woman". I really don't know what that feels like, having suffered through 50 years of testosterone poisoning and social indoctrination as a male. 

I never had a girlhood, or a mother-daughter relationship.  I never hung out with girlfriends, or had a slumber party, talking about boys and makeup. I've never had a womb, or menstruated, not will I ever bear children. It pains me to say that just because I have always wanted to be female since I was age 6 or 7, it doesn't make me one.

So what the heck am I doing, risking my whole male life to transition?  Seeking happiness is the only answer I can give you.  I may never be a woman, but I can be a "reasonable facsimile thereof".  If I can manage to maintain a "female user interface" with society, and be perceived and treated as a woman, I would be happy with that. I can tell you that is already happening, and I am already happier than I can ever remember being.  I guess that will have to do.

~Terri

My Gosh....this so speaks to my state of being and frustration. This is absolutely what I believe and hope for in "my best case scenario".

Quoterisking my whole male life to transition?

The risk became negated in the maelstrom that has brought me here. I simply had no choice, my life had ended. I had two decisions....I chose this path. It can result in nothing worse than I was facing.

Hi,
   As I was the original poster of this thread, I thought I would update a little. Something positive! Yeah. Because of much of what I heard on this thread from you wonderful ladies, I have been able to make quite a change in how I approach my everyday life. I went from a lot of, "I am a transwoman who is transitioning. I hope I pass well in this or that situation. I hope my voice doesn't give me away. Am I being obvious?" Now, I pretty much have evolved to, "I am a woman. That is the basis of everything I do. I will speak with my best effort. It may not be perfect, but it is a voice of a woman. I feel relaxed with who I am so much more." I went out after work today and was just one of six women sitting around talking. I talked to the waiter more naturally and got a lot of smiles from him.  Confidence made such a difference. I know I have a ways to go, but I think I have made a little jump here. I am so thankful for your help.  XOXO
Moni

Quote from: HappyMoni on February 03, 2017, 07:45:19 PM
"I am a woman. That is the basis of everything I do.

Yes, Ma'am, you certainly are, and it certainly is...

((HUG))

Missy

Moni, that's wonderful, and I think you are absolutely right.  Hitting the world with confidence is everything.

I'm still early days in my transition, a bit fragile but pretty confident.  Alas, the fragility is my personal downfall.  If I get misgendered, all the confidence goes out of my balloon. 

Being able to just sit around with other women and gab is a great thing, a huge step in socialization.  Congratulations!   And keep the confidence up!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Quote from: HappyMoni on February 03, 2017, 07:45:19 PM
Hi,
   As I was the original poster of this thread, I thought I would update a little. Something positive! Yeah. Because of much of what I heard on this thread from you wonderful ladies, I have been able to make quite a change in how I approach my everyday life. I went from a lot of, "I am a transwoman who is transitioning. I hope I pass well in this or that situation. I hope my voice doesn't give me away. Am I being obvious?" Now, I pretty much have evolved to, "I am a woman. That is the basis of everything I do. I will speak with my best effort. It may not be perfect, but it is a voice of a woman. I feel relaxed with who I am so much more." I went out after work today and was just one of six women sitting around talking. I talked to the waiter more naturally and got a lot of smiles from him.  Confidence made such a difference. I know I have a ways to go, but I think I have made a little jump here. I am so thankful for your help.  XOXO
Moni

This sounds very familiar :)  I think many of us have had these same conversations, I know I have.  Confidence is always the key, and the loving support of your friends and family :)

I am so happy for you Moni!!

Hugs,
Sarah

Happily ever after I would hope.

Quote from: HappyMoni on January 31, 2017, 03:45:10 PM
  I think being transsexual means that 100% total satisfaction with one's gender is not happening.

I think as long as one keeps thinking they are a TS or Trans Woman, there will always be non-satisfaction.

Can't remember when stopped thinking that, it has been so long ago.  Maybe it is when family friends and work colleagues, don't think of you that way, and having more and more discussions with other women just as one another.

Georgette,
   At this point, I know maybe 4 people who haven't known me as my previous incarnation. I am happy that I retain my past relationships. Although I don't let myself dwell on the past, not growing up as a girl, not getting pregnant, etc, it could be very unsatisfying if I allowed it. It would be monumentally stupid of me to finally become a woman and get what I have wanted all my life and ruin it by mourning the past. I look to the future and realize that it is totally within me to find satisfaction as a woman. Unlike many who start anew with an all new cast of surrounding characters, I will always have external reminders that I am a Trans Woman. I would hope that the memory of what I was will fade for others around me, in fact, I think it already has some. No, I will have to strive for feeling like a "genuine" woman (whatever that is) in my head. I am feeling good about my plan. Let go of the old thoughts, remind myself (until I no longer have to think about it) that I am a woman and deserve to be a woman. Get GCS and maybe BA done. Be open to evolving to be more and more myself. I wanted to know if it was possible for the mind to make that leap past perpetual transition thinking. From the  feedback I have seen in this thread, I really believe it will happen. There is no other path than being positive and "going for it." No, you are right. I have no time for thinking about percentages.
Moni
Thanks Missy, Michelle, Sarah, Jeanette, Georgette , and the others who have helped me with this.  XOXO

Moni,

When I first went to gender therapy, my therapist said that for those that undertake a physical transition, one can expect a 5-7 year journey. When I began such a transition, girls well beyond that time frame, girls that seemed to me to 'done' and long over the challenges still before me, would often assert that 'transtion' is an ongoing thing, and that long after HRT had done its thing, and long after the scars have faded, and the old name memories have been filed, and old relationships refreshed into the present, there would be more things that would pop up, and require attention. I wondered how that could be, since all I needed to do was fix some things about my body, change some documents, and get on with being a girl..

I am now a little past 5 years into my physical journey. I have accomplished almost everything that really needs to be done to live as a woman, be seen as a woman, enjoy life as a woman. I am also one that requires living with a 'closed narrative', as the ever-so-sage Sophia Sage would say, and that meant a LOT more work in some areas than those with 'open narratives' will require. But even with the learning curve for stealth life to ascend, and the extra time spent processing my trauma baggage, I would still be pushing the limits of that 5-7 year window first mentioned by my gender therapist. I have a LOT more work to do than I ever thought I would at this point. And funnily enough, long before HRT had truly reconverted my brain tissues into female, I remember thinking "well, that's that, I am a woman, and my transition is, for all practical purposes, now over". I can giggle about it now, but hey, at the time, I could not imagine feeling any more authentically and thoroughly female. Sometimes I will see somebody in the very first days of self-acceptance say something similar, and I just smile. Perhaps for some, all that they require to reach their maximum potential is self-acceptance and a few items of clothing. I once knew a girl that did her paperwork stuff in less than a month and declared it was over, she was done, a fait accompli.

So, back to you. You are less than 2 years in, and though that does seem like an eternity of changes and growth and self-acceptance, for most of us, whether living open narratives, or not, being two years in means we are approaching the end of the first phase of our transitions, with the challenges and rewards of the second, middle phase, just coming into view over the horizon. There is much we learn in phase two that is hidden from our eyes in the first years of our efforts. I suspect the same will prove true for you..

You are indeed a woman. Every word you write, every thought you express, every interaction we share, reinforces my belief in your genuine womanhood. You are going places that will blow your mind, expand you heart, fill your soul, and nourish your inner girl in ways you cannot yet fathom.

I look forward to watching you blossom.

Much love, girlie!

Missy

Quote from: MissGendered on February 05, 2017, 12:20:17 PMI am also one that requires living with a 'closed narrative'... and that meant a LOT more work in some areas than those with 'open narratives' will require.

To add some clarity to this, with an open narrative I think there's just as much "work" and in many of the same areas that is required of living with closed narrative, at least if one's goal is transsexing.

Mainly, you perpetually have to "live it down" as my friend V has put it before -- any faux pas becomes a source of critique of your womanhood, for example, whereas for ciswomen it becomes something else, like a critique of class privilege or what have you. The point being, there's still a lot of pressure to understand the social expectations and consequences of womanhood -- and though the actual consequences that occur will be different, the expectations are still the same.  It's still an education, an opportunity to learn.  But you still have to prove yourself, over and over again, to get what other women take for granted because it's automatically bestowed on them throughout their lives.

Funnily enough, though, this nonetheless intersects with a lot of womens' experiences in the real world, namely that of living in patriarchy -- in the working world, for example, you have to "live it down" if you're in a male-dominated profession, you have to be so much better just to get the same respect. And the women who succeed, that's what they do.  So that's what we have to do with an open narrative, even though the "arena" is just a step sideways from that.

Quote from: Sophia Sage on February 05, 2017, 02:03:33 PM
To add some clarity to this, with an open narrative I think there's just as much "work" and in many of the same areas that is required of living with closed narrative, at least if one's goal is transsexing.

Sophia,

Thank you for expanding on the subject. What I was alluding to is that for one to move from an open narrative life into a successful closed narrative life, one is prompted to learn many things otherwise irrelevant to an out and proud existence. It seems that most all transitions have a period at the start where being open is just unavoidable. So, yes, I too had to find peace and self-confidence knowing I was being 'othered' by even the best intentioned and progressive of associates, friends, family, for a bit over 2 years, this was my life. But to move beyond that place, a place I could NOT inhabit healthily, I was forced to learn new skills, new mindsets, new approaches, otherwise, I would continue to inadvertently 'out' myself, lose cis privilege, even 'pretty privilege', and be re-relegated to the 'other' category. This was an expensive, side-tracking, difficult process, but it had to be done.

I cannot survive otherness. So, I learned the survival skills I required, as opportunity afforded. I am still perfecting my skills and approaches to this, it is an ongoing education. These diversions impacted my transitional arc, and still do, in ways that those without such needs are not impacted equally.

This is not very much unlike what a Potemkin mole would have to learn. It is spy-novel material, and it brings stresses and rewards not unlike those that live new lives for whatever reason. I think of it as self-imposed participation in a witness protection program, but without the actual life and death consequences of failure. Still, I take any and every mistake to heart, and I learn from my missteps and poor choices. Telling my history to my now ex-boyfriend was one such example. I now know better, having lived through it and felt the burn..

Missy

So closed narrative means no one is constantly reminding you of your past, so maybe you accept your new incarnation easier in that sense. The trouble is the self induced stress of trying to never slip up and "ruin" it all. With open narrative, you don't worry about slipping up quite as  much, but the reminders from those around you of your past incarnation make it hard to see yourself as the new you. We are driven in these two different directions because of our differing pasts and our personalities. I could not do it as you do, which is okay. I am finding that even after these short months though, people's perspective of me has changed a lot. The memory of 'old me' has faded in their mind's eye. At some point, I suspect I will hear things like, "Wow I can't even remember what you used to be like." I actually hear this from my partner. "I can't remember what you were like. I see an old picture and go, 'Oh yeah!' "  There is actually a sense of accomplishment in this and it drives me to continue to evolve. I love that people are forgetting. The latest 'me', will always be the most valid, most important 'me'. Maybe it would be smart to hide the old pictures. I also have to be able to handle the damage caused when some brainless person pulls out an old yearbook and says, "Hey, look how different you are now." If done in front of a new person in my life, yeah that will be hard. We  each have to accept the  issues that go with the direction we choose. At my age I don't think I could start life with a whole new cast of characters.
   Thanks Ladies!
Moni

Quote from: HappyMoni on February 06, 2017, 06:30:13 PM
So closed narrative means no one is constantly reminding you of your past, so maybe you accept your new incarnation easier in that sense. The trouble is the self induced stress of trying to never slip up and "ruin" it all.

You know how the people around you seem to forget the old you and that the current you becomes the most valid?

The same thing happens in my mind with my self-concept and life history. It honestly becomes no effort at all to avoid 'slip-ups' once I am away from those old reminders. I never once slipped up while in deep stealth, but here in soft stealth, even my mind makes the jump back and forth from past to present because I know they know. When nobody knows, I never revisit the old narrative, it has been overwritten with memories of me as a little girl. It is only when talking with somebody that saw me as a 'little boy' that I screw up and blend the two narratives together for a moment, and that makes me have to stay conscious of the words I say later that day, week, month...

By excluding past life stimuli, the slip ups stop happening, and stress disappears. Yes, the logistics are difficult to wrangle early on in a transition, but once accomplished, it is easy sailing.

Just a bit of clarification, because I think many presume that stealth is hard. It is not. For me, it is the easiest way to live as authentically and calmly and peacefully possible. There are a LOT of misconceptions about deep stealth held by those that have not experienced it, and therefore preach against it as not being doable. Not that it is right for everybody, but it is a blessing for those of us that do need it..

((HUGS))

Missy

Quote from: MissGendered on February 06, 2017, 06:40:43 PMIt honestly becomes no effort at all to avoid 'slip-ups' once I am away from those old reminders. I never once slipped up while in deep stealth, but here in soft stealth, even my mind makes the jump back and forth from past to present because I know they know. When nobody knows, I never revisit the old narrative, it has been overwritten with memories of me as a little girl.

Yes, that's been so mind-boggling, the overwriting of memories. 

And yes, I also found there's no "effort at all" to avoiding "slip-ups."  But I never had a problem with that, even when I started out with an open narrative (for we all pretty much start with open narratives upon the beginning of transition).  When I finally transitioned, I was absolutely sure of my internal truth, and it's very easy to speak from one's truth.

QuoteJust a bit of clarification, because I think many presume that stealth is hard. It is not. For me, it is the easiest way to live as authentically and calmly and peacefully possible. There are a LOT of misconceptions about deep stealth held by those that have not experienced it, and therefore preach against it as not being doable. Not that it is right for everybody, but it is a blessing for those of us that do need it...

I think what's most difficult isn't the living of the life, but some of the steps that are necessary to living the life -- in particular, letting go of some old relationships, and secondarily avoiding the temptation to revisit the past out of nostalgia. 

It's easier if there weren't a lot of relationships to hold onto in the first place.

Quote from: HappyMoni on February 06, 2017, 06:30:13 PMAt some point, I suspect I will hear things like, "Wow I can't even remember what you used to be like." I actually hear this from my partner. "I can't remember what you were like. I see an old picture and go, 'Oh yeah!' "  There is actually a sense of accomplishment in this and it drives me to continue to evolve. I love that people are forgetting. The latest 'me', will always be the most valid, most important 'me'.

Yes, this is how it can go with an open narrative.  It's quite possible -- I was blessed enough to experience it myself with my immediate family.

But just... be aware that not everyone is capable of "forgetting."  Some people just can't let go, even if they're willing.  And some people, when the going gets rough, will hold your open narrative over you like the Sword of Damocles.  Of course we'll encounter people like this regardless of what path we go down, but with an open narrative there's more opportunities for other people to stir up one's dysphoria.  Even inadvertently.

QuoteMaybe it would be smart to hide the old pictures.

Oh yes.  Put them all into storage.  And ask your family and friends to do so as well.  (Any reluctance expressed on this account suggests a reluctance to fully embrace your transition, btw.) 

QuoteI also have to be able to handle the damage caused when some brainless person pulls out an old yearbook and says, "Hey, look how different you are now." If done in front of a new person in my life, yeah that will be hard.

And yeah, there's also the matter of your story being too juicy not to share.  For some, this is handled not just by having an open narrative, but by actively keeping it open and never having any relationships where there's narrative privacy.  But then you're missing out on a whole 'nuther set of experiences.

Anyways, yeah, brainless people... I eventually realized that I couldn't keep brainless people who stirred up my dysphoria in my life. I had to set boundaries. And that was hard, because eventually those boundaries had to be maintained, as not everyone was good at respecting them. 

QuoteWe each have to accept the issues that go with the direction we choose. At my age I don't think I could start life with a whole new cast of characters.

It isn't your age, Moni.  It's your relationships... and as long as those relationships can change as you do, it's the best reason ever not to upend your life. 

Yours,
Sophie

Quote from: Sophia Sage on February 06, 2017, 07:15:03 PM
Yes, that's been so mind-boggling, the overwriting of memories. 

And yes, I also found there's no "effort at all" to avoiding "slip-ups."  But I never had a problem with that, even when I started out with an open narrative (for we all pretty much start with open narratives upon the beginning of transition).  When I finally transitioned, I was absolutely sure of my internal truth, and it's very easy to speak from one's truth.

I think what's most difficult isn't the living of the life, but some of the steps that are necessary to living the life -- in particular, letting go of some old relationships, and secondarily avoiding the temptation to revisit the past out of nostalgia. 

It's easier if there weren't a lot of relationships to hold onto in the first place.

There was a weird time shortly after going full-time, where I was passing pretty well everywhere, but still seeing the 'old me' residual memories in the mirror. During that time, I sometimes outed myself while assuming I was being clocked, only to realize I hadn't been, but duh, too late, I was now 'other' in their eyes. Later I was very good with anybody that did not know me before HRT, but I still tried to make people that new me from before my transition more comfortable by relenting a bit and acting more as they expected than I should have. That sucked, too.

I also made the mistake of revisiting places and relationships when feeling nostalgic for the companionship and fellowship of old times, but as a woman, without revealing who I had been before. Even on fora where I had been a dominant contributor, a leader in the field in real life, expounding the very same opinions garnered me ridicule or contradiction, or worse, accusations of being a man pretending to be a woman 'for some weird reason'. How could any woman know such things? It was very disheartening, and proved to me that a return to past professional accomplishments was a poor choice for me, even hobby stuff brought similar negativity my way. Boys in boys clubs keep women out with a variety of means, even men I used to respect tore into me. If I were to return to such things, as a woman, they would tear into me until they discovered my secret, and then would 'other' me out of my rewards for excelling.

So, lessons learned, and I am just grateful I didn't connect my present life with my past life, and have them tear down the legends I created back then. I was a woman outdoing men at what men do, if they knew this, they would other me out of existence, and tear down the edifices that still stand in memorium of the man they believe passed away honorably many years ago. I am very proud of my staged death, it was brilliant in conception, and even more brilliant in execution. They have a man's man to admire still, even in death. I won't take that away from them, lol.

Missy

Open or Closed Narrative, slip ups, stealth or not.

I think in this age of the Internet, If you are of an older age that would be very difficult.

Since I transitioned at an earlier age and before the Internet.  People would be hard pressed to find much of my previous history.  Using my dead name, They will see my new name and some might be able to piece things together.

As far as slip-ups, I have done that in the past.  In a club and mentioned to some guy that I was in US Navy.  He asked if I was in the WAVES, and I quickly said yes and changed subject.

After my job where I transitioned, I changed my resume to be vague on US Navy time.

Quote from: Georgette on February 06, 2017, 10:59:46 PM
Open or Closed Narrative, slip ups, stealth or not.

I think in this age of the Internet, If you are of an older age that would be very difficult.

My old name has almost faded away completely on the net, the first couple of pages of any search engine results are unrelated to me in any way. The results used to be many, many pages deep, with lots of photos, too.

My current name brings up nothing.

I was doing a deal over the phone with a guy that knew me before, and he didn't know me now, of course, but he asked me if I was in witness protection. I asked why, and he said because he had been looking into me, but I was 'a ghost', lol..

I run a tight ship.

Missy

My current name brings up pages and pages of stuff about me.

I even went and changed some past names like school listings and even some Navy stuff.

Don't think true stealth can be had.

Just using my legal name, I didn't get any hits on the first three pages, and then I stopped looking... there were a lot of obits, actually.  So many other people share my name.  Or used to.  No photos show up, either -- I'm so glad I've never posted photos of myself online.  Looking up someone I transitioned with back in the day -- got one photo, and no mention of her past, just one of her current interests.  Others friends, I get only their recent business references on google, and one who used to post regularly back in the day under a pseudonym, well, even that pseudonym is pretty much dead in the search engine now. 

Importantly, perhaps, none of us maintained any professional links (or much of any kind of link, really) to our pasts; we all moved on to new careers. 

So I still think it's possible to effectively maintain a closed narrative and practice non-disclosure (really, it's not "stealth" and I don't think it helps to refer to it that way, despite that common shorthand).  It kind of depends on how you live your life, and what you're willing (or not) to give up. While it's always possible for narratives to inadvertently be opened, I'd still be inclined to call this "bad luck" and not really a refutation of practicing non-disclosure, any more than the possibility (and widespread prevalence) of an automobile accident is going to get me to stop driving my car. 

Quote from: Sophia Sage on February 07, 2017, 12:45:50 AM

Importantly, perhaps, none of us maintained any professional links (or much of any kind of link, really) to our pasts; we all moved on to new careers.

It kind of depends on how you live your life, and what you're willing (or not) to give up.

Exactly!

I am one move and name change away from being completely airtight. I already know my destination, new name and what is involved. Still have some details to handle first, but no hurry, even soft stealth provides me with all the practical privacy I require.

They used to say that if god wanted us to fly, he'd have given us wings. Nowadays, well, you know...

It is all about priorities and discipline and commitment.

Missy