Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I was discussing this subject with my therapist and she asked me a question I really struggled to answer

"How would going fulltime look different from how things are now"

So it got me thinking

What does going "fulltime" mean to me?

but just as curiously, what does "fulltime" mean to you

Liz

Good question.  Full time to me is however you as an individual feel full time is.  I personally don't feel clothing makes me more of a woman.  I've been taking hormones for over a decade and I've dressed in woman's clothing for years.  Now I'm more unisex with the way I dress.  I guess it's point of taste and feel tight jeans make me feel like I'm trying to be something I'm not when I feel I am.  I like short hair most transgender like to grow there hair.  So I guess it's a matter of the way each person feels.  I can take this subject to all sorts of levels but I think I've said enough.

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This was more than a curiosity for me. I had to hash this out with my therapist(s) for my SRS letters. I am full-time now. I go out publicly as a woman, I go to work as a woman, and I am legally female. My IDs, birth certificate, bank accounts, credit cards, etcetera, are all changed.  But that process took time, and I didn't have everything done until early December. The new birth certificate came in December., and that's when I came out at work.  My new passport came in November. My new driver's license, with my new gender, was issued in October, right after my name change became official. But I had FFS in September, and I had petitioned the court for a legal name change back in July.  I started HRT a year before that.

However, even now, I can't dress like a girl if I want to see my kids. So, I take off all my makeup and jewelry, go without a bra, and wear a t-shirt and jeans. So am I "presenting as the gender I identify with" on a continuous basis?  If the answer to that is no, does that mean my clothing defines my gender?  That's obviously absurd, so what does "presenting as your identified gender" mean? 

Does it mean it is when you look like a girl (or boy, if you are FtM)? Does it mean you act like a girl (boy)?  I was prepared to argue that I was full-time once I got some legal ID saying I was female.  If I am legally female, I am female all the time, by definition. Doesn't matter what clothes I wear, or what I look like.

One of my letter-writers, a psychologist specializing in gender therapy, was more liberal in his interpretation.  He asked me, "When did you apply for your legal name change?"  I told him the end of last July.  He said, "Then we will put that you have been full-time since July".  His rationale was that was a documentable event that signaled my transition. It's as good an argument as any, I guess, even if entirely arbitrary.

With kindness,

Terri 

Terri makes a great set of points on how fuzzy this can get. Thanks!

For me, full time was abrupt, like flipping a huge switch. I had planned to transition to full time in late spring of this year, after a year of HRT, if I could get my family to support me in this. I also promised myself that if my family abandoned  me once I was out to them, that I would go full time immediately, as there would be nothing to hold me back.

About 5 months ago my wife told me she wanted a divorce, and I would have to leave. She set deadlines, and repeatedly pulled them in. At 4 PM October 22, 2016, I was ordered to leave at once, in the middle of saying goodbye to my youngest daughter. At 5 PM  I changed clothes at my apartment, tossing his last things into a box headed to Goodwill.

I was fulltime. To me, this meant loss, but it also meant relief, from the insane pressures of switching back and forth, from the psychological abuse, from gender dyaphoria. I could live with my gender presentation aligned with my identification and never have to worry about losing it forever to changing "ground rules".

Going fulltime meant starting what turned out to be the happiest, most peaceful time ever in my adult life.


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At this point it just means being taken for male 100% of the time, having male name, ID, etc.

Because honestly it only depends now on two things, the surgery and the HRT to finish its work. I was surprised when I spoke to the therapists and doctors who said "I see you're already living full time." I hadn't thought about it, but I apparently dressed and acted and spoke in a way which to them seemed in keeping with their view of "full time" and had been doing for as long as I recall. I felt no need to change my behavior. The obstacle is literally just the physical appearance and the voice, which has been changing rapidly since HRT.

Quote from: Maybebaby56 on March 03, 2017, 06:09:34 PM
One of my letter-writers, a psychologist specializing in gender therapy, was more liberal in his interpretation.  He asked me, "When did you apply for your legal name change?"  I told him the end of last July.  He said, "Then we will put that you have been full-time since July".  His rationale was that was a documentable event that signaled my transition. It's as good an argument as any, I guess, even if entirely arbitrary.

If you go by ID, I wasn't full time until after surgery because I couldn't change any paper work until after surgery. If you go by birth certificate, I am still male. The requirement for my surgery was living as a woman full time so I could determine if I would be comfortable in my new life. I took it seriously and I last passed as male in the fall of 1979.

Funny question.  I went "full time" 27 hours ago.

The following changed.
1) I will present as Denise only.
2) I will be referred to as Denise
3) social media updated with a name change
4) everyone at work refers to me as Denise.
5) everyone knows it's no longer a secret I thought I would take to my death bed.
6) Dan is no more.

I would say 1, 5 & 6 are the biggie's.

Both of the therapists I've had asked me "What would be different if Joanne showed up to work tomorrow?". Both times my reflexive response was "Not really anything.... after people picked their jaws off the floor"

For the most part being "full time" will allow me to feel more genuine by actually presenting on the outside as the genuine me. On the inside, how I'd move about in the world would be no different.

My wife will likely disagree to some extent. She is always pointing out how much different I look, move, my aura which exudes joy and happiness when I am present as Joanne

There was a similar topic a couple months ago on this you might find interesting as well- I know I did. Got about 20 replies

What is "full-time"? (MtF)
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=217938


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I don't know if I'm full time. Maybe half time. I move, behave and talk like a guy. All I actually need is a name change. But I am not quite ready for that yet.

Tony

For me it was like flipping a switch too. I came back from India with a butt lift. but still dressed as male, abeit in women's pants. I went back to work and a coupled of the rude guys I worked with asked if I was putting on weight (yeah, 4" in the hips and butt). Women said nothing. So next I took to wearing clear nail polish and still nothing. Next I had my ears pierced and started wearing tiny gold studs- Nothing. I started wearing women's shoes- oxford type, not heels. Still nothing. Finally with just one card to play, I went to the office with normal bra, no binder, under a loose sweater. I walked past the women secretaries and by the time I reached my cubical, two of them had pushed in demanding to know if I had breast implants over the weekend. :No" I said, "I got them the same way you got yours" and I explained my binding routine. From now on I was Rhonda. One of them said "We knew something was going on when you came in wearing clear nail polish". Oh fine, 42" hips and they notice my nails.

Just being myself really.

Sometimes mining that which has been buried deep, unmasking the masked and doing a little yard work. But mostly I like to get up in the morning, put on my face and get on with the day.
I've always been full of social anxiety and the depression that tags along with it, but little by little that's being replaced with a newfound confidence and a growing self-esteem. This is all because I crossed the line to full-time. Early days yet but I feel an emergence out of a dark place.

It's never really been about clothes for me, well maybe a little :). I do like wearing makeup in public, I kind of feel naked without it now. So there is a little dress-up to my "fulltime". I don't think I'll ever be a heels girl, but am definitely a handbag girl.

  I'd like to work for a charity as soon as my HRT starts, I've already scouted a few, so that's my next goal. I've always had a very strong mothering instinct and feel Its high time that got put it to good use. I certainly won't be any saint, probably a bit of a madam at times, but I'd like to try and take a more positive direction for my remaining years.

A year ago, none of this would have been possible for me, I could hardly leave the house. I wanted to be part of society but couldn't the way I was. This is changing, this is what "full time" means to me. It's not been easy by any stretch and I've a long ways to go, but at least I'm moving forward now.

Peace, love and all that good stuff,

shy

My first thought is, why is that even a question? Does it have some importance?

Quote from: AnonyMs on March 04, 2017, 12:20:40 PM
My first thought is, why is that even a question? Does it have some importance?

It sure does if you want your insurance company to pay for SRS.

~Terri

Quote from: Maybebaby56 on March 04, 2017, 12:32:28 PM
It sure does if you want your insurance company to pay for SRS.

That would mean the earliest date you can get away with then, true or not.

Thank you all for some great answers

There is a practical side to this question for the sake of RLE and then there is the more philosophical arguments. From a purely practical point of view I need to be able to say at some point my RLE has started in order to have SRS. Other than that I can see if is useful for Drawing a line in the sand over names and pronouns. For me the only part clothing has to do with whether or not I go fulltime is answering the question...do I have enough?

I have hopefully picked out the best of everyone's answers 

Quote from: brie1990ny
Good question.  Full time to me is however you as an individual feel full time is.  I personally don't feel clothing makes me more of a woman. 

Quote from: maybebaby56

One of my letter-writers, a psychologist specializing in gender therapy, was more liberal in his interpretation.  He asked me, "When did you apply for your legal name change?"  I told him the end of last July.  He said, "Then we will put that you have been full-time since July".  His rationale was that was a documentable event that signaled my transition. It's as good an argument as any, I guess, even if entirely arbitrary.

Quote from: Michelle_P
I was fulltime. To me, this meant loss, but it also meant relief, from the insane pressures of switching back and forth, from the psychological abuse, from gender dyaphoria. I could live with my gender presentation aligned with my identification and never have to worry about losing it forever to changing "ground rules".

Quote from: Kylo
I was surprised when I spoke to the therapists and doctors who said "I see you're already living full time." I hadn't thought about it, but I apparently dressed and acted and spoke in a way which to them seemed in keeping with their view of "full time" and had been doing for as long as I recall.

Quote from: Dena
The requirement for my surgery was living as a woman full time so I could determine if I would be comfortable in my new life. I took it seriously and I last passed as male in the fall of 1979.

Quote from: Denise
Funny question.  I went "full time" 27 hours ago.

The following changed.
1) I will present as Denise only.
2) I will be referred to as Denise
3) social media updated with a name change
4) everyone at work refers to me as Denise.
5) everyone knows it's no longer a secret I thought I would take to my death bed.
6) Dan is no more.

I would say 1, 5 & 6 are the biggie's.

Quote from: JoanneB
For the most part being "full time" will allow me to feel more genuine by actually presenting on the outside as the genuine me. On the inside, how I'd move about in the world would be no different.

Quote from: MeTonie
I don't know if I'm full time. Maybe half time. I move, behave and talk like a guy. All I actually need is a name change. But I am not quite ready for that yet.

Quote from: Rhonda33
"For me it was like flipping a switch too. I came back from India with a butt lift. but still dressed as male, abeit in women's pants..."

... "I walked past the women secretaries and by the time I reached my cubical, two of them had pushed in demanding to know if I had breast implants over the weekend. :No" I said, "I got them the same way you got yours"

Quote from:
Just being myself really

Quote from:

My first thought is, why is that even a question? Does it have some importance?

Thanks to everyone who answered

Liz