Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Quotea true transsexual will feel natural and happy under the effects of female hormones, anyone else will feel wrong and will stop their apparent cross-gender behavior as male hormone function ceases

I picked this up off of www.looking-glass.greenend.org.uk/primer.htm (http://www.looking-glass.greenend.org.uk/primer.htm) and was wondering if
anyone had any personal experience with others that attempted HRT and then
realized they were not TS.

Has it been clinically proven that if you like the effects of HRT then you are TS? Or is it possible
that a true male could like the effects of HRT?

How long does it take to realize the affects of HRT and know if it's right for you or not?

Is it mostly emotional and cerebral changes that they are talking about or the physical changes that
go along with HRT?

Is it possible to stop  HRT (if you like it and are TS) to plan your transition better?

So many dumb questions!

I know of many people who want breasts, a curvy body, to supposedly "feel oh so femme," etc... but enjoy it from a male identity... who LOVE the effects of HRT.

I pretended to want to "do a trial of HRT" when I was first facing my transition. In my case, I knew, deep down, I'd never stop. But I used that excuse to lie to my wife (and myself) that it was "just to see." I just could not say the words, "I am going to transition." The implications were just so... terrifying.

But I knew.

~Kate~

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on November 15, 2007, 02:49:05 PM
Has it been clinically proven that if you like the effects of HRT then you are TS? Or is it possible
that a true male could like the effects of HRT?

I don't know that there really is a way to "prove" someone is TS or not,  you really can't measure what's in someone's head.  Or is that not what you're asking?  As for a true male likeing HRT, I think Kate's got this one pretty well covered, I've also heard of some CDs, TVs, etc being prescribed a very low dose of estrogen along with an anti-depressant, for obvious reasons.  As for "true" males liking HRT, the boobs, hips, etc might be thrilling, but I'd assume losing sexual function wouldn't be the highlight of their day.

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on November 15, 2007, 02:49:05 PM
How long does it take to realize the affects of HRT and know if it's right for you or not?
Is it mostly emotional and cerebral changes that they are talking about or the physical changes that
go along with HRT?

Everyone's experience is different in how they respond to HRT.  Knowing if it's right for you? That hopefully should have been explored in therapy leading up to HRT.  With HRT, IMHO, its the total package both the emotional and physical changes that define whether its right or not.  Though I think what you're asking more relates to misguided CDs getting on HRT and stressing out when they have to take steps to conceal the physical changes to their bodies.  If it's just a weekend hobby, dealing with obvious breasts during the week is bound to be stressful.  Though more then one TS has had to take steps when her (since this is specifically MtF) body outpaced her timeline for transition.  So maybe that's not the best analogy.

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on November 15, 2007, 02:49:05 PM
Is it possible to stop  HRT (if you like it and are TS) to plan your transition better?

There are a number of us here who have (myself included).  Speaking from experience though, your transition should probably be in order before you start HRT.  To really be able to evaluate your feelings around HRT, it takes months to really get the full effect of the hormones, even then it still takes close to 2 years (or more) to fully respond to the effects of the hormones.  Its not realistic to think that a one week or even one month "trial" will serve as a reliable test.

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on November 15, 2007, 02:49:05 PM

Quotea true transsexual will feel natural and happy under the effects of female hormones, anyone else will feel wrong and will stop their apparent cross-gender behavior as male hormone function ceases

I picked this up off of www.looking-glass.greenend.org.uk/primer.htm (http://www.looking-glass.greenend.org.uk/primer.htm) and was wondering if
anyone had any personal experience with others that attempted HRT and then
realized they were not TS.

Has it been clinically proven that if you like the effects of HRT then you are TS? Or is it possible
that a true male could like the effects of HRT?

How long does it take to realize the affects of HRT and know if it's right for you or not?

Is it mostly emotional and cerebral changes that they are talking about or the physical changes that
go along with HRT?

Is it possible to stop  HRT (if you like it and are TS) to plan your transition better?

So many dumb questions!

Hi, Amanda,

There are no dumb questions in a body of knowledge that is being revised on a day-to-day, person-by-person basis.

I have a friend who was born intersexed.  When she was very young he had a phalloplasty performed on her so he could show her off as his son.

He put her on huge doses of testosterone and they caused her such pain that you wouldn't believe it.  Her muscles fought against her primary gender identity, female, and she was in awful pain, especially knowing all along that she was really born female and should have stayed female.

Many years went by and she started on HRT.  This woman had an hourglass figure to begin with so she was years ahead of most of us.  Her long, dark, wavy hair framed what had always been a feminine face.  Her chromosomal makeup was xxy.  I believe that is the marker for Kleinfelter's Syndrome.

When the surgeon began the GRS she found one complete ovary and a portion of a uterus within her.

Bottom line:  I believe that if a person is not getting the proper hormone for their body, mind, and emotions, there will be a rebellion within them.

Wing Walker
Saw It With My Own Eyes

Quote from: Wing Walker on November 16, 2007, 01:29:41 AM
Bottom line:  I believe that if a person is not getting the proper hormone for their body, mind, and emotions, there will be a rebellion within them.

I think its more simplistic then that, for a non-TS, the "novelty" of the effects of HRT is bound to wear off sooner or later.  For the TS, its their body aligining with their mind.

Quote from: Enigma on November 16, 2007, 09:51:22 AM
I think its more simplistic then that, for a non-TS, the "novelty" of the effects of HRT is bound to wear off sooner or later.

I do know of people who identify as men who have "enjoyed" HRT for many years. They seem to see it as an extension of erotic crossdressing, and talk about how nice it is to "feel femme" (their words) and whatever when they do it.

The thing is, HRT kinda *forces* you to transition at some point. Or at least some people. I'm not sure if a non-TS really wants to bind his breasts every day, and be called "miss" by everyone - even when in "male mode."

On the other hand, I think it's VERY tempting to many crossdressers to have a body that properly fits the clothes. Some are apparently willing to deal with the unwanted side-effects to not only crossdress in women's clothes, but in a women's body as well, carrying the urge to the utmost extreme.

So personally, I don't think HRT is a very accurate diagnostic tool. Or at least I'd suggest that HATING it means you're not TS, but LOVING it doesn't prove much anything.

~Kate~

While it's part of the transition process it shouldn't be used as a means to figure out if you are a transsexual. The reason is that opposite sex hormones cause permanent sterility.

After a very short time on HRT you will not ever be able to have children again. This rules out using HRT first then deciding to go forward or not.

At 42 with one child and my wife just had a hysterectomy...... Sterility is not the issue. 

Any more kids and we plan to adopt

The arousal & libido is a major factor, but at this age any movement towards HRT is a good one.

Daisy

Well.... sterility is not an issue and I've never been into crossdressing.

I guess everyone wants to know for sure they are TS before they take
the plunge. Some of you are more certain than I am I guess about
what they have always felt. I have a strong  feeling that I've had since
8 or 9 that things are not right with my body.

But the last couple of years has been like a floodgate has opened and
I'm being driven toward it. It's so strange.

Deep down I think I know I'm TS, the real question is do I want to do
something about it and suffer the consequence's? And although I call
it "suffer the consequence's", it makes me very happy to think that I
could transition, that I could be the person I know I am inside.
And if hormones made things totally right in my world maybe that would
be the black and white answer I need.

Did anyone else have self-doubts about being TS or wanting to transition? If so how or
what allowed you to move forward? Did you just become so un-happy being in male mode?

See a therapist.

My therapist treated my reaction to HRT as a confirmation of our diagnosis not as a tool for an initial diagnosis.

Turns out it was the best stuff I ever took!

hugs & smiles
Emelye

My therapist didn't believe in HRT :P

But I eventually broke her!

As for using hormones as a test, it's probably not the greatest of ideas.  I mean, the sterility issue is for sure a big thing, but also, you can explore the options with your therapist if they're good and hopefully decide on a decision that way.  I don't know very many people who have been on HRT for a "test" either, except maybe the do it yourself ones, but that's just a bad idea all together.

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on November 16, 2007, 03:56:20 PM
Did anyone else have self-doubts about being TS or wanting to transition? If so how or
what allowed you to move forward? Did you just become so un-happy being in male mode?

I never doubted needing to be a girl, but I did question:

1) Is TSism what it appears to be? Or is it really just some weird psychological problem?

2) Will transition really work? Or will I be the proverbial "man in a dress" for the rest of my life?

I NEVER thought transitioning would work for me (heck, come to think of it, I STILL don't believe it worked, lol). One of the first things I said to my therapist was, "It's not that I don't know if I want to transition - I do - but I don't know if I CAN transition. There's just no way I'll ever be anything but a feminized man to everyone." Even when I committed to transitioning, I STILL didn't believe it would work. I fully expected I'd end up a laughingstock, and would... well... just end it all when I did. I figured at least I'd die knowing I tried though.

That was my biggest doubt though... and in posting this I'm realizing it's STILL haunting me.

What allowed me to move forward? I think it was just realizing, in a direct and clear way, that I AM female... I literally, actually and in a very real way AM a girl. It's not AS IF, I'm not a boy who wants to be a girl, I'm not a guy who wants femininity... I AM FEMALE. And once you SEE that... not just intellectually as a cute theory, but I mean SEE it with a heartbreaking clarity... you really have no choice about what to do.

~Kate~

Estrogen is a very potent medication.  It can cause pulmonary embolism, stroke, life-threatening blood clots, heart failure, liver toxicity, erectile dysfunction, sexual problems, infertility, etc.  Playing with estrogen is a big no-no.  Hence, estrogen therapy should always be supervised by a doctor and as Susan pointed out, it should not be used for self-diagnosis.  Talking to a gender therapist is your best approach IMO.

tink :icon_chick:

While I won't promote self-medication
the health risk of bio-estradiol (not the synthetics molecules)
is very very low for most.

The reason for that is simple, 50% of the population
live under it without major difficulty  :D

Taking estrogen or not, doesn't depend on health risks,  but more on mental health risks.

I sort of treated the hormones as a test, but, like Kate, I knew that I was going to transition.  I think the commitment to the hormones was a major part of my self-acceptance. 

That said, I was certainly open to the possibility that I'd really hate the feeling, and that such a pain would jolt me out of whatever delusion I might have been having -- but alas, no such pain, no such jolt.  Nothing but happiness at making progress.

Joyce

Quote from: Joyce on November 17, 2007, 08:50:03 PM
That said, I was certainly open to the possibility that I'd really hate the feeling, and that such a pain would jolt me out of whatever delusion I might have been having...

Discovering the beginning of breast buds jolted me. Up until then, this was all theory... it worked for OTHER people, but *I* would never change, nah...

Suddenly... omg... this is REAL. Real changes, which meant... I was REALLY transitioning.

I felt stunned for about 30 seconds... then the tears started... and for the first time in four decades, I actually felt HOPE...

~Kate~

I don't quite understand one thing.  Why do peeps want to start mones and then want to do everything else they should have done before starting them like getting married or having children, complicating their lives even more?

Quote from: Valentina on November 17, 2007, 09:29:08 PM
I don't quite understand one thing.  Why do peeps want to start mones and then want to do everything else they should have done before starting them like getting married or having children, complicating their lives even more?

I'm not sure I understand the question?

I never wanted to be a father (avoided it) or husband (did do it). But I DO want to be a wife and mother. How am I "complicating my life" by pursuing that now that it's finally possible? I don't see those as complications, I see them as the fulfillment of my dreams.

~Kate~

???  that was a rhetoric question not aimed to anyone.  I'm not sure I'm following you Kate.  I'm talking based on my limited experience with peeps I know.  But to answer your question and referencing to those peeps I know.  They should concentrate on transitioning first & then when all is complete, worry about the rest.  Wanting to do all at once is a complication.

Quote from: Valentina on November 17, 2007, 10:02:22 PM
They should concentrate on transitioning first & then when all is complete, worry about the rest.  Wanting to do all at once is a complication.

Ahhhh, OK, my apologies. I thought "Why do peeps want to start mones and then want to do everything" meant why do people get married and have kids AFTER transitoning... not DURING it.

Yes, doing that DURING a transition would be a lot to deal with... although I may not wait for SRS (though I'm done transitioning otherwise) to find a way to have a child. I'm getting too old to wait much longer.

~Kate~

I know what you're asking, and know the answer in most cases. Many Trans-girls/boys feel depression, sadness, disgust and ashame of there body's. They feel dead and don't wan't the world to look at them many are not able to have a successful relationship and sometimes they can't have a relationship at all. All there dreams lie in being accepted and physically feeling as the gender that they know they are inside. Imagine being a girl with a boy body and playing house with other girls and hearing "you can be the dad" :(. Or not experiencing your mom taking you out to get your ears pierced for the first time :(. Or watching other girls go shopping for clothes and make-up and feeling left out :(. I think you get the point, when we accept our trans-issues and take steps to correct what should have never been many of us feel our lives have finally started. For the first time you're starting to feel like who you are inside, finally you can do the things you always wanted to do. Kinnda make up for the time lost, people who struggled with relationships start to feel more comfortable with there body's and want to be with someone all of a sudden. That's the best I can explain it, I hope I did'nt offend anyone...that's why I said most

I would never recommend taking HRT on a trial basis to determine who or what you are.  AS many here have indicated HRT are chemicals that can, in some circumstances, alter a persons thinking and of course there are the inherent health risks.  Some would even say it would be like taking cocaine to see if you were inclined to be a drug addict.

As some have indicated the best course to take is to seek professional help, and yes I know, I know, "I should know what's best for me", I was one of those people.  There should be no outside influence in determining who or what you are.  Therapy is one of the best routes to follow.  There are those who know what/who they are and therapy confirms this, and then there are those who are battling with who/what they are, and therapy should guide them in determining an answer.

Either way I would not recommend HRT on a trial basis.  HRT does not determine if you are a man or woman.

Steph

My therapist fully agrees that there is no test with estro, but she says that quite often many people use just Spiro or Andro as a test, cut out the male T, and see how you feel.  You cant do it for very long (as your body needs hormones), but she says it is a good test to rule out whether or not TSism" for some people is just a sexual desire/

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on November 15, 2007, 02:49:05 PM

Quotea true transsexual will feel natural and happy under the effects of female hormones, anyone else will feel wrong and will stop their apparent cross-gender behavior as male hormone function ceases

Whoa, that person needs to be really, really careful with the exclusionary tone in their voice. That's such a blanket statement and I'd argue that 1) there's no such thing as a 'true transsexual, 2) natural and happy, um, that doesn't sound like many people I know. HRT is a powerful thing, if you are 'happy and natural' and feel that way before HRT, I would imagine you'd continue to be that way. If you are sad and depressed and have doubts, I would imagine that it would amplify that. It's definitely not a positive mental miracle drug.

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on November 15, 2007, 02:49:05 PM

QuoteI picked this up off of www.looking-glass.greenend.org.uk/primer.htm (http://www.looking-glass.greenend.org.uk/primer.htm) and was wondering if
anyone had any personal experience with others that attempted HRT and then
realized they were not TS.

I have seen a few people in my support group go on, then go off, realizing when they were on that transition wasn't the right path for them. I don't think the hormones did that per se, I think that it was a combination of seeing changes from the hormones in conjunction with therapy & self-exploration that made them change their mind.

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on November 15, 2007, 02:49:05 PM

QuoteHas it been clinically proven that if you like the effects of HRT then you are TS? Or is it possible
that a true male could like the effects of HRT?

I have no idea about this one. I don't really understand how a "true male" (what is that any way, lol, do they exist?) would be ok on HRT for more than a month or two. I mean, these hormones can have pretty serious side effects. For a male to go through losing libido and sexual activity, that could be a hard thing. Many men have strong sex drives and HRT can really impact that. I saw some posts that some people have known men who enjoyed HRT, I just don't get it, but to each their own I guess.

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on November 15, 2007, 02:49:05 PM

QuoteHow long does it take to realize the affects of HRT and know if it's right for you or not?  Is it mostly emotional and cerebral changes that they are talking about or the physical changes that go along with HRT?

I had to make sure I had 100% made up my mind before I ever put hormones in my body. I also need to have a transition plan mapped out before I took hormones. The thing is, once you start, you basically start a time line with your body. After a week or two, you will notice small changes. Breasts bus, sweat a little different, feeling tingly, etc. The changes get more noticeable the longer you are on them.  I'm a HUGE believer in getting therapy before ever going on hormones. I'm also a big believer in making sure that transition is right for you & that you have thought through EVERYTHING you can think of, all the possible pitfalls, complications, etc. before going on HRT. To just start taking hormones and not think through things like financial situation, job, family (both immediate and own, kids, wife or husband, etc), emotional state, friendships, etc. is unimaginable to me. I know people do it, just take hormones and "figure the rest out later." I just don't get it.

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on November 15, 2007, 02:49:05 PM

QuoteIs it possible to stop  HRT (if you like it and are TS) to plan your transition better?

I think if you start with therapy first, then figure out the next step, then take it from there, you'd be doing yourself a huge service. To try to think of HRT before therapy when you ask these kinds of questions (I know, just my opinion, but whatever) is like wanting to climb Mt. Everest for your first climb. You have to be prepared, learn how to climb, find out if you even feel comfortable 2,000 feet off the ground before you get halfway up Mt. Everest, realize there's no going back and trap yourself.

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on November 15, 2007, 02:49:05 PM

QuoteSo many dumb questions!

We all start somewhere, there's definitely NO such thing as a dumb question and I'm hoping you'll never get beat up for asking a question. Everyone is at different stages of transition, many people here are not transitioning at all, you should be asking these kinds of questions and doing lots and lots of research :) Meghan

I generally think that once you are trying HRT you are dealing with the GID and not so much using it to determine that if you are trans but whether or not you actually FEEL BETTER once the receptors are getting the proper hormones.

When I started HRT I knew I was trans but I didn't actually know how I would feel on HRT and if it would make me feel better. I started then stopped for a few weeks to re-compare and wow, I felt soooo much better on them.

I agree if you are trans it will feel better. Again I think its a receptor issue in the brain or something.